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Paxton Lynch, QB, Memphis

Marshall said:
I might suggest that feet which constantly move can be broken down into scared feet, which appears to be your version of "happy feet," and prepared feet which are constantly repositioning in order to be in the best possible position for an accurate throw from a changing pocket location. One is not like the other.
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glad you know the difference.
 
I watched the Ole Miss game that blew his hype out of proportion & really wasn't impressed..
I watched the Navy game.......wasn't impressed.

I don't see much in the way of alot of NFL throws..lots of bubble screen throws and the occasional dart that makes you wonder. I know that it's mostly the offense he runs, but you'd think that the coaches would open it up a bit more for him if they thought he was a special talent. As of right now, he's mostly hype to me & I'm not so sure he knows what he's looking at when he has to throw over the middle. He had a number of questionable throws in that Navy game. The 1st thing i think of when i see him is Brock Osweiler. I'll be in attendance at UH this weekend to get a closer look at this kid and how i have a little different view on him coming out of the game.
 
Mollywhopper said:
Which of Chryst's 6 attempts are you going off of the most?
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I Don't know. 3 went for first downs and 1 for a TD, not bad percentage.

(Was talking about the completions before the last game, which I haven't bother to get the game film on, even though I could.)

But seriously, I like the fact that he was in a pro offense in HS.
If there's a knock on him, it's that he needs to learn to be in the shotgun, which is a total contrast to most college QBs.

Good pedigree; family members in football, and the guy spend time in the gym, on the field and the film room.

His HS tapes make Gunner Kiel a nobody.

You're looking at a well-rounded player with both physical and mental tools/skills plus the dedication on and off the field.

All the traits and tools to be a franchise NFL QB.
 
76Texan said:
I Don't know. 3 went for first downs and 1 for a TD, not bad percentage.

(Was talking about the completions before the last game, which I haven't bother to get the game film on, even though I could.)

But seriously, I like the fact that he was in a pro offense in HS.
If there's a knock on him, it's that he needs to learn to be in the shotgun, which is a total contrast to most college QBs.

Good pedigree; family members in football, and the guy spend time in the gym, on the field and the film room.

His HS tapes make Gunner Kiel a nobody.

You're looking at a well-rounded player with both physical and mental tools/skills plus the dedication on and off the field.

All the traits and tools to be a franchise NFL QB.
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This would be an awesome scouting report if he were a senior in high school being recruited into college. Probably a 5* player.

But we're talking about the NFL. And there's a couple of important years missing in here.

Literally everything you wrote, word for word, could have been said about Matt Cassel.
 
bah007 said:
This would be an awesome scouting report if he were a senior in high school being recruited into college. Probably a 5* player.

But we're talking about the NFL. And there's a couple of important years missing in here.

Literally everything you wrote, word for word, could have been said about Matt Cassel.
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Cassell lacks the mobility, the arm strength and the phisicality Keller posesses.

They were two very different prospects, by a wide margin.

Keyword: Prospect.
 
76Texan said:
Cassell lacks the mobility, the arm strength and the phisicality Keller posesses.

They were two very different prospects, by a wide margin.

Keyword: Prospect.
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I liked Chryst as well coming out of high school. But you're talking NFL traits and tools about a guy with absolutely zero meaningful college experience.
 
bah007 said:
I liked Chryst as well coming out of high school. But you're talking NFL traits and tools about a guy with absolutely zero meaningful college experience.
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Remember; I was answering Speedy's question "What's the 2018" class look like".

Regardless of future profession and outcome, people have traits,

A person with good math and logistic skills are tooled to succeed in engineering and computer science.

A guy who display leadership skills in high school have a certain degree of percentage in continuing doing so later on in his life.

It's not that complicated.
 
bah007 said:
I liked Chryst as well coming out of high school. But you're talking NFL traits and tools about a guy with absolutely zero meaningful college experience.
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For example, if we dícussed LeBron James when he was in highschool, was it ridiculous to say that he looks to have tools and traits that can make him NBA material?

Or when I was actually talking about Kevin Durant early in his freshman year at UT with some regular posters on the old TT board (a couple of them were Longhorns), I told them to enjoy it while it lasts, because it won't last long (and that was before they started conference play.)
He was as good as gone, as far as I was concerned.

Keller is a RS sophomore; he's now older than both of them at the respective time of comparison.
 
76Texan said:
For example, if we dícussed LeBron James when he was in highschool, was it ridiculous to say that he looks to have tools and traits that can make him NBA material?

Or when I was actually talking about Kevin Durant early in his freshman year at UT with some regular posters on the old TT board (a couple of them were Longhorns), I told them to enjoy it while it lasts, because it won't last long (and that was before they started conference play.)
He was as good as gone, as far as I was concerned.

Keller is a RS sophomore; he's now older than both of them at the respective time of comparison.
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You're comparing him to those guys the year they entered the NBA draft. So if Chryst enters the draft this year then yes we can make that comparison. And based on his body of work I'm going to go out on a limb and predict that he would not go #1 or #2.
 
bah007 said:
You're comparing him to those guys the year they entered the NBA draft. So if Chryst enters the draft this year then yes we can make that comparison. And based on his body of work I'm going to go out on a limb and predict that he would not go #1 or #2.
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I'm only comparing the traits and the tools they have when they were young.

They are comparable, no matter what level of competition they faced.

Those things were always there.
 
76Texan said:
Remember; I was answering Speedy's question "What's the 2018" class look like".

Regardless of future profession and outcome, people have traits,

A person with good math and logistic skills are tooled to succeed in engineering and computer science.

A guy who display leadership skills in high school have a certain degree of percentage in continuing doing so later on in his life.

It's not that complicated.
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Apples and oranges. Maybe even apples to green beans.

All you have for this projection is Chryst's high school resume. I liked him a ton coming out of high school too. He looks like he could be a great college QB.

But that is not enough to make a projection to the NFL. He has zero meaningful experience to be able to even consider making a scouting report for the NFL.

I like him too. But franchise QB in the NFL is so far away from what we should even be talking about with him at this point in time.
 
bah007 said:
Apples and oranges. Maybe even apples to green beans.

All you have for this projection is Chryst's high school resume. I liked him a ton coming out of high school too. He looks like he could be a great college QB.

But that is not enough to make a projection to the NFL. He has zero meaningful experience to be able to even consider making a scouting report for the NFL.

I like him too. But franchise QB in the NFL is so far away from what we should even be talking about with him at this point in time.
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Now, it might be more apt if I was comparing the situation with a baseball prospect, but then again, baseball is even more difficult to project.

All I'm saying is that whether it's Rosen or Chryst, they do have things that make them the leaders of the board ( at the moment), as far as the 2018 class goes.
 
76Texan said:
Now, it might be more apt if I was comparing the situation with a baseball prospect, but then again, baseball is even more difficult to project.

All I'm saying is that whether it's Rosen or Chryst, they do have things that make them the leaders of the board ( at the moment), as far as the 2018 class goes.
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At least one person said he likes Rosen.
I said I like Chryst.

That's probably a better way to describe the situation.
 
76Texan said:
I'm only comparing the traits and the tools they have when they were young.

They are comparable, no matter what level of competition they faced.

Those things were always there.
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It's not comparable. Those two guys entered the NBA draft the very same year that you're talking about. If Chryst enters the draft this year then you can try to make this comparison. And I bet you he will not go where they did in the draft because he has no meaningful experience on his resume.

Chryst was ranked the #2 QB in the country in 2014, the year he came out of high school. So let's look at other guys who were ranked in the same spot and so must have exhibited comparable traits and tools.

2013, Christian Hackenberg - Perfect example. Showed tremendous traits and tools in high school and his first year in college. But after getting some meaningful college experience we are starting to see that maybe those traits and tools were only potentially there.

2012, Zach Kline - Beat out in practice by a less-regarded player in Jared Goff and transferred to a FCS school. That's really weird considering he showed tremendous traits and tools when he was young.

2011, Cody Kessler - Point for you. Exhibited tremendous traits and tools when he was young and turned that into a great college career. Let's see where he gets drafted.

2010, Phillip Sims - Played at three different colleges before going undrafted but did catch on with the Arizona Cardinals as their third string QB. Weird that he wasn't a shoe-in to be a NFL franchise QB considering the traits and tools that he showed when he was young.

2009, Garrett Gilbert - Played at two different colleges before becoming a 6th round pick. He's on his fourth team already in only his second year in the league. Pretty weird considering the traits and tools that he showed when he was young.

2008, Dayne Crist
2007, Ryan Mallett
2006, Mitch Mustain
2005, Jonathan Crompton
2004, Anthony Morelli
2003, Chris Leak
2002, Trent Edwards

I would keep going but the Rivals database doesn't go back any further than that. Anyhow, I think the point is made.

EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. of those guys demonstrated comparable traits and tools in high school to Keller Chryst. How many NFL franchise QBs are on that list?

Perhaps, just maybe, by some slim chance, there is something that matters in the maturation process for NFL QBs between high school and the draft?
 
Let's backtrack to Mariotta in his sophomore year.

Myself, I made the observation after watching his first NCAA game, that I thought he does look to posess the tools and traits.

Same goes for Winston, after I watched his first NCAA game.

In both instances, I didn't declare that they should be 1 and 2 when the time come; only that they showed to have those traits.

Obviously, there are other things to consider; character for one.
 
76Texan said:
Now, it might be more apt if I was comparing the situation with a baseball prospect, but then again, baseball is even more difficult to project.

All I'm saying is that whether it's Rosen or Chryst, they do have things that make them the leaders of the board ( at the moment), as far as the 2018 class goes.
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Why don't you try comparing it to another football prospect. Like, just one.
 
bah007 said:
It's not comparable. Those two guys entered the NBA draft the very same year that you're talking about. If Chryst enters the draft this year then you can try to make this comparison. And I bet you he will not go where they did in the draft because he has no meaningful experience on his resume.

Chryst was ranked the #2 QB in the country in 2014, the year he came out of high school. So let's look at other guys who were ranked in the same spot and so must have exhibited comparable traits and tools.

2013, Christian Hackenberg - Perfect example. Showed tremendous traits and tools in high school and his first year in college. But after getting some meaningful college experience we are starting to see that maybe those traits and tools were only potentially there.

2012, Zach Kline - Beat out in practice by a less-regarded player in Jared Goff and transferred to a FCS school. That's really weird considering he showed tremendous traits and tools when he was young.

2011, Cody Kessler - Point for you. Exhibited tremendous traits and tools when he was young and turned that into a great college career. Let's see where he gets drafted.

2010, Phillip Sims - Played at three different colleges before going undrafted but did catch on with the Arizona Cardinals as their third string QB. Weird that he wasn't a shoe-in to be a NFL franchise QB considering the traits and tools that he showed when he was young.

2009, Garrett Gilbert - Played at two different colleges before becoming a 6th round pick. He's on his fourth team already in only his second year in the league. Pretty weird considering the traits and tools that he showed when he was young.

2008, Dayne Crist
2007, Ryan Mallett
2006, Mitch Mustain
2005, Jonathan Crompton
2004, Anthony Morelli
2003, Chris Leak
2002, Trent Edwards

I would keep going but the Rivals database doesn't go back any further than that. Anyhow, I think the point is made.

EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. of those guys demonstrated comparable traits and tools in high school to Keller Chryst. How many NFL franchise QBs are on that list?

Perhaps, just maybe, by some slim chance, there is something that matters in the maturation process for NFL QBs between high school and the draft?
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You made the point for me, because I like Chryst better than any of them, including the guy ranked ahead of him in the same class.

It happened that I had some free time that year and was able to watch tapes of many HS QBs, including those a year ahead of Chryst.

To me, personally, I thought he was way ahead of them all.
Obviously, I disagreed with many other college scouts.
 
There were a lot of different things I liked when I watched his HS tape.

For instance, with pressure, he had to move around just a bit in the pocket, he fired a TD pass downfield. The pass traveled over 50 yards, in a muddy pocket, where he couldn't step into the throw.

The arm strength was obvious.

In his best day, Schaub can only dream of that armstrength.

To me, the ability to throw deep from a muddy pocket is big.
 
So tonight is the big game of Memphis with Lynch vs UofH, right ? So I'm expecting a lot from Lynch from all I've heard and read. Combo of Brady and Big Ben - he's that good right ?
 
Paxton Time!

BTW keep an eye on Memphis LT #77 Taylor Fallin, watching Lynch games this guy caught my eye as a pretty good player, may project well at RT in the NFL
 
I'm no longer on the Lynch bandwagon. Of course it's only the 3rd game I've ever seen him play.
 
Speedy said:
I'm no longer on the Lynch bandwagon. Of course it's only the 3rd game I've ever seen him play.
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I was singing his praises until the 4th Q when his evil twin showed up. Man Lynch had a couple of occasions to put the game away in the 4th Q and couldn't. I'm not sure Lynch has ever read a defense. He gets the play from the sideline goes to his shotgun position claps his hands and away they go. Never making any line calls, doesn't scan the field, look for safeties/LB and never checks off to another play. When the game gets a little tight so does Lynch and he also begins to telegraph his intentions. Outside of the pocket he continues to throw off his back foot.

20 Comp 31 ATT 278 YDs 64.5% 61 Long 2 TDs 1 INT 154.7 QB Rating
 
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Texian said:
I was singing his praises until the 4th Q when his evil twin showed up. Man Lynch had a couple of occasions to put the game away and couldn't. I'm not sure Lynch has ever read a defense. He gets the play from the sideline goes to his shotgun position claps his hands and away they go. Never making any line calls, scans the field or checks off to another play. When the game gets a little tight so does Lynch and he also begins to telegraph his intentions. Outside of the pocket he throws off his back foot.

20 Comp 31 ATT 278 YDs 64.5% 61 Long 2 TDs 1 INT 154.7 QB Rating
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Lynch is a better athlete than QB at this point .
 
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Texian said:
I was singing his praises until the 4th Q when his evil twin showed up. Man Lynch had a couple of occasions to put the game away in the 4th Q and couldn't. I'm not sure Lynch has ever read a defense. He gets the play from the sideline goes to his shotgun position claps his hands and away they go. Never making any line calls, doesn't scan the field, look for safeties/LB and never checks off to another play. When the game gets a little tight so does Lynch and he also begins to telegraph his intentions. Outside of the pocket he continues to throw off his back foot.

20 Comp 31 ATT 278 YDs 64.5% 61 Long 2 TDs 1 INT 154.7 QB Rating
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That's exactly what I noticed as well. Watching the tape on the internet that's available on him, they show the play from right before it's snapped so I've never seen anything before that. I have zero interest in these QBs who look to the sidelines for someone to tell them what to do, instead of reading defenses. I don't care what NFL type throws they can make, if they can't read a defense, it's not going to matter.

And that's exactly why I think the NFL needs a developmental league. These college QBs are not learning how to play NFL QB in college.

When Memphis had a 20 point lead in this game, the worst part, other than the Coogs getting their asses kicked, was that it wasn't really because of anything Lynch was doing. I don't think I ever saw him go through his progressions and I can't recall very many throws at all that went over 5 yards.

Not impressed at all with Lynch, so much so that I would be fairly disappointed if the Texans ended up drafting him, no matter what round they got him with.
 
Speedy said:
That's exactly what I noticed as well. Watching the tape on the internet that's available on him, they show the play from right before it's snapped so I've never seen anything before that. I have zero interest in these QBs who look to the sidelines for someone to tell them what to do, instead of reading defenses. I don't care what NFL type throws they can make, if they can't read a defense, it's not going to matter.

And that's exactly why I think the NFL needs a developmental league. These college QBs are not learning how to play NFL QB in college.

When Memphis had a 20 point lead in this game, the worst part, other than the Coogs getting their asses kicked, was that it wasn't really because of anything Lynch was doing. I don't think I ever saw him go through his progressions and I can't recall very many throws at all that went over 5 yards.

Not impressed at all with Lynch, so much so that I would be fairly disappointed if the Texans ended up drafting him, no matter what round they got him with.
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Mallett like?
 
Speedy said:
I'm no longer on the Lynch bandwagon. Of course it's only the 3rd game I've ever seen him play.
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Honoring Earl 34 said:
Lynch is a better athlete than QB at this point .
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Speedy said:
That's exactly what I noticed as well. Watching the tape on the internet that's available on him, they show the play from right before it's snapped so I've never seen anything before that. I have zero interest in these QBs who look to the sidelines for someone to tell them what to do, instead of reading defenses. I don't care what NFL type throws they can make, if they can't read a defense, it's not going to matter.

And that's exactly why I think the NFL needs a developmental league. These college QBs are not learning how to play NFL QB in college.

When Memphis had a 20 point lead in this game, the worst part, other than the Coogs getting their asses kicked, was that it wasn't really because of anything Lynch was doing. I don't think I ever saw him go through his progressions and I can't recall very many throws at all that went over 5 yards.

Not impressed at all with Lynch, so much so that I would be fairly disappointed if the Texans ended up drafting him, no matter what round they got him with.
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Well, I think You're premature on jumping off the bandwagon but at the same time I agree with most of this. He is a better athlete than QB at this point. That's probably because he's a college QB and just a junior at that. You're right Speedy in that the NFL does need to do something about developing QB's because the colleges aren't doing it very much at all anymore.

A developmental league might be the thing but they can't seem to keep one of those afloat for very long. Plus we're not likely to see one of those before next draft anyway so what we'll have to choose from will be a lot of guys who are mostly better athletes than NFL ready QB's.

As those go I still like what I see out of Lynch.
 
Hervoyel said:
Well, I think You're premature on jumping off the bandwagon but at the same time I agree with most of this. He is a better athlete than QB at this point. That's probably because he's a college QB and just a junior at that. You're right Speedy in that the NFL does need to do something about developing QB's because the colleges aren't doing it very much at all anymore.

A developmental league might be the thing but they can't seem to keep one of those afloat for very long. Plus we're not likely to see one of those before next draft anyway so what we'll have to choose from will be a lot of guys who are mostly better athletes than NFL ready QB's.

As those go I still like what I see out of Lynch.
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I don't know if you could tell on TV but he moves like a 6'2 guy . I'm not sure if he threw a ball over 20 yards downfield last night so I can't tell about his arm and they run the TCU offense which isn't pass happy . He is on the upswing and will only get better if he can adapt to the pro game .
 
Live arm, quite athletic for his size/frame, great deep ball, seems competitive, accuracy can be erratic, running a training wheels offense, have no idea from neck up. Thought these things when I first watched him weeks ago and still do.

Not sure any questions get answered until he starts getting worked out for NFL-level tools in postseason ... specific NFL throws, what kind of leader, does he grasp concepts, etc.

Lots to like to go with equal amount of question marks.
 
The spread offenses don't really bother me as far as evaluation goes, because most of these guys are still asked to do a handful of things that will translate to the NFL. You just have to study them harder to find it, which most scouts and draftniks don't want to do. It's a lot easier to scout a guy who plays in a traditional offense.

But Lynch's resume is basically a couple of stud throws against Ole Miss and that's it. Fuente doesn't give him any rope to be in command. He makes no calls, no audibles. He does no work whatsoever pre-snap. All his QB work is done for him by the coach before the ball is even snapped. All he does is deliver the throw. But he also doesn't challenge the defense with NFL throws to the sideline or the intermediate part of the field. Contrast that to a guy like Goff, who also plays in a goofy offense, but has been given more control of the offense every year he's been there, and also demonstrates the consistent ability to make NFL throws.

On paper, Lynch has got everything you want. But I'd like to see Lynch go back to school and Memphis give him more control of the offense. I wouldn't feel comfortable drafting him based on what I've seen. That's not to say that he wouldn't or shouldn't be drafted. But it's like getting a mystery prize. You have absolutely no idea what's in there. And that's not a risk I like to take.
 
Don't give Goddell any ideas. If he could start a Junior Football League (JFL) a kid would only need to be 18 with High School Equivalency to be eligible. A lot of kids would lose out in the end, like it or not, missing out on higher education opportunities & growing up experiencing College Experience.
 
bah007 said:
But Lynch's resume is basically a couple of stud throws against Ole Miss and that's it. Fuente doesn't give him any rope to be in command. He makes no calls, no audibles. He does no work whatsoever pre-snap. All his QB work is done for him by the coach before the ball is even snapped. All he does is deliver the throw. But he also doesn't challenge the defense with NFL throws to the sideline or the intermediate part of the field.

On paper, Lynch has got everything you want. But I'd like to see Lynch go back to school and Memphis give him more control of the offense. I wouldn't feel comfortable drafting him based on what I've seen. That's not to say that he wouldn't or shouldn't be drafted. But it's like getting a mystery prize. You have absolutely no idea what's in there. And that's not a risk I like to take.
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This..to the tee..if we're supposed to be looking for a qb in the 1st round, which based on our record we'll be picking pretty high, I wouldn't feel comfortable picking this guy. I've just havent seen enough from him that makes me think he's readY to do anything in the league.

His offense limits his throws downfield and over the middle..he has a bad habit of throwing off his back foot and I don't like his tendencies overall when he's under pressure.
 
Texian said:
There is a lot of press of how much Philly is interested in Paxton Lynch. What say you PHILLYTEXANFAN?
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I personally haven't heard anything. I'd have to talk to a few buddies about it. Most just talk about how much they hate Chip. Although if I was philly, I'd be looking to trade for Kap, RG3, or JFF.
 
Texian said:
I saw nothing in this game that would've elevated Paxton Lynch NFL draft status. In fact I would say IMHO that much of the Paxton Lynch HYPE will begin to fade.

11/21 @Temple L 31-12 25 Comp 34 ATT 156 YDs 73.5% 21 Long 0 TD 0 INT 112.1QB Rating

Highly-touted prospect Paxton Lynch struggles vs. Temple
http://www.csnphilly.com/ncaa/nfl-d...spect-paxton-lynch-struggles-loss-temple-owls
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I think Lynch lifted his team and is talented . He really looked good in the Ole Miss game , but hasn't been the same since . Maybe defenses learned how to defend Memphis and they aren't talented enough to counter that .
 
WolverineFan said:
Lynch got a ton of run out of that Ole Miss game. Went from relative unknown to 1st round hype. The truth is somewhere in the middle.
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Conventional Wisdom says that there are 6 to 7 QBs worthy of being drafted in the first 3 RDs of the 2016 draft. At this point I would say Lynch would fit in to that day 2 crowd.
 
Texian said:
Conventional Wisdom says that there are 6 to 7 QBs worthy of being drafted in the first 3 RDs of the 2016 draft. At this point I would say Lynch would fit in to that day 2 crowd.
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Recent play indicates all of them might only be second day worthy. But that does tend to happen for all but a few anointed QB saviors. Honestly, I wouldn't put any QB of the last 6 years in the elite category, even with all the hoopla around Luck, Griffin, Bridgewater, Winston and Mariota.
 
Lynch is the best QB in this draft and it's not even close. I actually even like him better than both of the QBs last year. If they allowed him to do what he does they're still undefeated. You have to take the reigns off a kid like that. Is he incapable of it? Not from what I see, but we've never had the tools at the position this kid possesses. Mallett has the arm strength, but Paxton is mobile and accurate.
 
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