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Owen Daniels - What's he worth? - Gets Highest RFA Tender

ChampionTexan

ChampionTexan

Hall of Fame
John McClain was on KILT yesterday afternoon (just like every Friday), and one of the things he mentioned was that he'd heard Buffalo may be willing to offer Owen Daniels a contract in the $5 Million/year range even though he's a RFA. I didn't hear if he said anything about guaranteed dollars, but Jason Witten extended for six years in 2006, and got $29 Million with essentially $12 Million guraranteed. Last year, Dallas Clark signed a six year deal last year for $36 Million. I haven't found anything definitive on the guaranteed money, but it appears to be a front-loaded contract. Those are the best comparables I could find, but they seem to indicate a long-term deal averaging $5 Million per is not unrealistic.

If the Texans tender Daniels at max dollars (which is highly likely), and if Buffalo signs him to an offer sheet, the Texans can either match the offer, or take a first and a third from Buffalo, and let Daniels walk.

Assuming the Bills (or any other NFL team) signs O.D. to an offer sheet along the lines described, and assuming no poison pill (ie: the contract is matchable), what would you do?
 
A young probowl TE is worth more than 1 st round pick in my opinion. OD can block and he can catch. I say pay him. We saw how difficult it was when we had a receiving and a blocking TE. Now that we've got a guy who can do both, why would you let him walk for the potential of getting a good player?

That being said, I don't thikn Buffalo would do that. They have an early pick and can get Pettigrew, and save a ton of money and a 3rd
 
gtexan02 said:
A young probowl TE is worth more than 1 st round pick in my opinion. OD can block and he can catch. I say pay him. We saw how difficult it was when we had a receiving and a blocking TE. Now that we've got a guy who can do both, why would you let him walk for the potential of getting a good player?

That being said, I don't thikn Buffalo would do that. They have an early pick and can get Pettigrew, and save a ton of money and a 3rd
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Just to clarify, it's a first and a third, and Buffalo has the 11th pick in the draft (so as opposed to what I said in the OP, let's assume we get Buffalo's picks since there's a big difference between theirs and a team picking in the bottom 10).
 
Even though Daniels is one of my favorite players, I would definitely take the picks over him. We already have a capable tight end in Dressen, plus this draft is stacked with pretty good tight end prospects. We're getting two first day picks with both being top 15 in each round, it's a no brainer. Doubt Buffalo would do it though.
 
Successful teams are able to trade quality players for extra draft picks and then have someone take their place without missing a beat along with getting more talent from the extra picks. Remember, we got OD for a 4th round pick so if we could get a 1st and 3rd for him that would be outstanding. However, I highly doubt we have anyone on the roster that can pick up where he left off. We're a team on the rise but we aren't that good yet.

You would have to take the picks because the value is just too great but at the same time expect a drop off in the TE position for the short term being more than balanced out by upgrades/added depth in positions of weakness from the added picks.

PS: You could add even more picks from the original 1st and 3rd with a trade down.
 
Sorry, but I'm not taking a 1st and 3rd over a proven player like Daniels......he's a 1st round talent and a huge reason why our offense is as good as it is. (he's our inside man)

1st round draft picks aren't sure fire hits

and 3rd round picks are even a bigger crap shoot.

Give me the proven YOUNG player any day of the week.
 
Carr Bombed said:
Sorry, but I'm not taking a 1st and 3rd over a proven player like Daniels......he's a 1st round talent and a huge reason why our offense is as good as it is. (he's our inside man)

1st round draft picks aren't sure fire hits

and 3rd round picks are even a bigger crap shoot.

Give me the proven young player any day of the week.
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I agree 100%. I understand the fascination and excitement over draft picks. A top 10 (close to it) pick has a chance to be superstar in this league. Maybe a probowler.

But we already have a probowler, and he's young and healthy. Why would you give up a surefire player that fits our system for an unknown?
 
I'm with CB. I think we've been spoiled by our recent draft successes. I'm not gambling on those picks when we have a young but proven stud TE who knows the offense well.
 
gtexan02 said:
I agree 100%. I understand the fascination and excitement over draft picks. A top 10 (close to it) pick has a chance to be superstar in this league. Maybe a probowler.

But we already have a probowler, and he's young and healthy. Why would you give up a surefire player that fits our system for an unknown?
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Confidence that your front office can find another player just like him. Buy low/sell high.

He was a 4th round pick, if we get a 1st and 3rd in exchange I have plenty of confidence that this coaching staff can draft players with those picks that will more than make up for the loss of OD.

Dont get me wrong, i'm a HUGE OD fan. But in the era of FA its all about drafting players like OD late and then trading them off for extra draft picks to a less fortunate organization that doesn't draft as well as you. That's the only way you're gonna stay under the salary cap and win consistently.
 
The Texans will place a 1st and 3rd tender on Daniels.

No team will sign Daniels to an offer sheet with that tender.

The End.
 
Lucky said:
The Texans will place a 1st and 3rd tender on Daniels.

No team will sign Daniels to an offer sheet with that tender.

The End.
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This is the offseason. If all our threads end in 10 minutes its going to be a long couple of months!!
 
Consider this:

Our first and third round picks since Kubiak's been here:

2006 - Mario Williams/Charles Spencer OR Eric Winston
2007 - Amobi Okoye/Jacoby Jones
2008 - Duane Brown/Antwaun Molden OR Steve Slaton

I realize that this doesn't shed much light on the answer, and that's kind of the point.
 
Lucky said:
The Texans will place a 1st and 3rd tender on Daniels.

No team will sign Daniels to an offer sheet with that tender.

The End.
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no_20poop_small.jpg


(We don't have a threadcrapping smilie :))
 
Daniels is great, but for a 1st and 3rd, I'm sure just about every GM in the league would trade Daniels for that. I would do that in a second.
 
You do not know what you're going to get out of these two draft picks and you already know what you're going to get out of OD period.
 
Carr Bombed said:
Sorry, but I'm not taking a 1st and 3rd over a proven player like Daniels......he's a 1st round talent and a huge reason why our offense is as good as it is. (he's our inside man)

1st round draft picks aren't sure fire hits

and 3rd round picks are even a bigger crap shoot.

Give me the proven YOUNG player any day of the week.
Click to expand...

Key point here. OD is the pro-bowler TE, who hasn't quite yet finished developing. A first and a third. Pah. It'd take a first and a second (perhaps two seconds, or another first) to really be tempting to get rid of one of the cornerstones of the offense. Plus, his work ethic and level headed attitude only makes him more of a no-trader.
 
Polo said:
I'd trade Daniels,Dreesen and Bruener for the first and third.
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And you'll spend more than a first and third trying to find players that give you the production and depth of the players above.

People keep saying, "but Daniels was a 4th rounder".....who cares, he's obviously outplayed his draft position.
 
gary said:
You do not know what you're going to get out of these two draft picks and you already know what you're going to get out of OD period.
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I like OD alot.... buttt... you can reach for Pettigrew with our 15 with this. We could also possibly get Rey Rey or B.J. Raji with the 11 pick, and an extra 3rd rounder. Of course, thats only if the Bills do it, I don't think they will.
 
Brandon420tx said:
Well, I don't follow the combine that closely, I'm still a bigger performance of game production over drill showoff.

What did Pettigrew do badly?
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I didn't think he had that bad a day. He did OK on the broad jump, one of the shuttles, and the bench. He ran a slow 40 time but I don't think he was expected to run fast.
 
#1) Pettigrew has character issues:
Charged with felony assault and battery of a police officer in February, 2008. Police responded to an altercation at a residence in Stillwater, OK. When asked to leave, Pettigrew refused and elbowed an officer in the chest. Pettigrew has since pleaded guilty to a lesser charge (misdemeanor assault and battery) in return for fines paid and 20 hours of community service. He also pleaded guilty to misdemeanor public intoxication in the incident and was fined $100. He received a deferred sentence and won't have a criminal record if he successfully completes probation. Coach Mike Gundy declined to suspend Pettigrew, saying in February that he would allow the case to run its course.
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#2) Pettigrew was unimpressive in the combine today
Pettigrew's performance Saturday at the NFL scouting combine in Lucas Oil Stadium might have given pause to teams with early draft slots.
Pettigrew, the top-rated tight end in the draft, ran his 40-yard dash in a sluggish 4.8 seconds, failing to register among the top 10 tight ends invited to the combine. But we knew speed wasn't his stong suit. He's a blocker first, receiver second.

Pettigrew tied for sixth with a 33-inch vertical jump, was fifth in the broad jump at 9 feet, 10 inches and tied for eighth with 22 repetitions in the 225-pound bench press.
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So, maybe we don't draft pettigrew, but we use that 15ner on another defensive player, trade back, or an Elite WR if Crabtree falls or Maclin lands in our lap.

Disclaimer: I'm a big fan of OD and Walter and in no way am I suggesting I want them gone from the team.
 
gary said:
He may end up being close to them.
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First three year stats are fairly comparable (with the exception of TDs).

Gates Stats
2005 San Diego Chargers 15 15 89 1,101 12.4 38 10
2004 San Diego Chargers 15 15 81 964 11.9 72T 13
2003 San Diego Chargers 15 11 24 389 16.2 48 2

OD Stats
2008 Houston Texans 16 16 70 862 12.3 35 2
2007 Houston Texans 16 16 63 768 12.2 29 3
2006 Houston Texans 14 12 34 352 10.4 33T 5
 
PapaL said:
First three year stats are fairly comparable (with the exception of TDs).

Gates Stats
2005 San Diego Chargers 15 15 89 1,101 12.4 38 10
2004 San Diego Chargers 15 15 81 964 11.9 72T 13
2003 San Diego Chargers 15 11 24 389 16.2 48 2

OD Stats
2008 Houston Texans 16 16 70 862 12.3 35 2
2007 Houston Texans 16 16 63 768 12.2 29 3
2006 Houston Texans 14 12 34 352 10.4 33T 5
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See what I mean.
 
Personal point of view. OD is one of our most talented players, letting him go would be a HUGE mistake. Right now, if I were to choose, I would choose OD over Dunta, that is, I would rather overpay OD than Dunta.

Even taking into account that our offense was a pass-happy one, OD did VERY well. If someone 'deserves' the franchise tag, its OD.

Again, personal view, and I'm drunk as hell. Cheers! :=)
 
ChampionTexan said:
John McClain was on KILT yesterday afternoon (just like every Friday), and one of the things he mentioned was that he'd heard Buffalo may be willing to offer Owen Daniels a contract in the $5 Million/year range even though he's a RFA. I didn't hear if he said anything about guaranteed dollars, but Jason Witten extended for six years in 2006, and got $29 Million with essentially $12 Million guraranteed. Last year, Dallas Clark signed a six year deal last year for $36 Million. I haven't found anything definitive on the guaranteed money, but it appears to be a front-loaded contract. Those are the best comparables I could find, but they seem to indicate a long-term deal averaging $5 Million per is not unrealistic.

If the Texans tender Daniels at max dollars (which is highly likely), and if Buffalo signs him to an offer sheet, the Texans can either match the offer, or take a first and a third from Buffalo, and let Daniels walk.

Assuming the Bills (or any other NFL team) signs O.D. to an offer sheet along the lines described, and assuming no poison pill (ie: the contract is matchable), what would you do?
Click to expand...

well, what kind of money is the best TE in the league getting, he is worth that.....
 
Daniels is a key cog in our offense. If we let him walk then who replaces him?

I think it's crazy to even entertain the notion that we should let him go.

One of the most devastating weapons an offense can have is a TE that demands coverage from a DB down the seam.
There are very very few LB's in the league that can cover OD downfield, which frees up coverage for AJ because a safety has to be designated to OD on passing plays.
 
Isn't it tampering to release information regarding interest and money about another team's free agent before the FA period begins?
 
Our offense immediatly goes from one of the best in the league to mediocre if you trade OD.

With haynesworth probably leaving the Titans and the colts losing there head coach and possibly Marvin Harrison this is the first season the Texans have a good shot at winning the division. If you trade OD for picks your giving up on next season. Horrible idea.
 
letting OD leave would piss me off more than dunta leaving, love the guy and he's been on my fantasy teams every year
 
Bubbajwp said:
Our offense immediatly goes from one of the best in the league to mediocre if you trade OD.
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Yea, I'm sure that'll happen. I mean our players on offense are just average, beside OD of course. AJ, Slaton, Schaub, Walter.. average. Kubiak, just an average offensive coach. They're nothing without Daniels. pleaaase.
 
dalemurphy said:
Isn't it tampering to release information regarding interest and money about another team's free agent before the FA period begins?
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It's just a rumor that's been picked up during the combines... It's not an official statement from the Bills.
 
J-Russ said:
Yea, I'm sure that'll happen. I mean our players on offense are just average, beside OD of course. AJ, Slaton, Schaub, Walter.. average. Kubiak, just an average offensive coach. They're nothing without Daniels. pleaaase.
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A receiving threat at TE makes everyone on offense look better.

He may have been overselling OD's value, but you shouldn't underestimate it as well.
 
Daniels (98th overall selection in 06) for a 1st & 3rd is ridiculous return on initial investment. Rick could do some serious damage with all those picks, I could imagine a very deep & talented haul come draft day for the Texans :texflag:
 
J-Russ said:
Yea, I'm sure that'll happen. I mean our players on offense are just average, beside OD of course. AJ, Slaton, Schaub, Walter.. average. Kubiak, just an average offensive coach. They're nothing without Daniels. pleaaase.
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A good tight end in the middle can make a big difference. A Pro Bowl tight end in the middle can make a huge difference. Safeties and linebackers are going to have to keep tabs on him. All it takes it for them to be distracted for a second and AJ or AD can fly by.
 
This would be a really tough decision.. the whole "a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush" thing comes to mind.

However.. you have to consider how many birds we have in our hands. Receiving is this team's biggest strength... if we sacrificed one of our offensive threats for two good picks in this draft.. we could potentially become a stronger team overall..without severely weakening ourselves in the long run.

My first instinct says to keep O.D.... but after thinking about it..it would be a tough call to make. If there is any place on this team where we could afford to lose a good player..its in the receiving corp.
 
bah007 said:
A receiving threat at TE makes everyone on offense look better.

He may have been overselling OD's value, but you shouldn't underestimate it as well.
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I know that a playmaker at TE would definitely help an offense, and I'm not undervaluing OD. I honestly wouldn't give him up for almost anything; unless its for that 1st and 3rd, both being near top ten picks in their respected rounds. I would even hesitate on just that 11th overall pick.

Losing him certainly would not make us mediocre though. Joel Dressen is a very capable receiving TE. Although hes no OD, he could probably fill the void as a pretty decent starting TE. Also, did I mention this was a deep TE class? We could get someone like Chase Coffman or James Casey in the 3rd.
 
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