Owen Daniels - What's he worth? - Gets Highest RFA Tender

[WolverineFan]

I can't figure OD out. Is it him, or is it the offense? Sure he catches a lot of passes and get decent yardage but then he finishes the season with 2 TD's.

IMO he is not an important part of the offense.

TD's are not the only barometer for success as an offensive player. AJ has only had 3 seasons with more than 5 TD catches in his career and as a WR he gets alot more opportunities for TD's than Daniels does. I would say he is a very important part of the offense.

As it was stated earlier, Daniels is not the best redzone target for a TE. But that's not where his value is at. His value is making all those 1st down catches on 3rd downs and extending drives, leading to TD catches for other players.

He is a vital part to this offense and if we let him go then who would replace him? I think you would find that our offense would not be ranked #3 in the league if he isn't out there.

 

[Mailman]

AJ and Steve Slaton are the main reason OD gets so many touches. They draw so much attention that OD is usually lightly covered in the flats. Its not like he is Antonio Gates without a WR to open the field for him

It's inarguable that AJ and Slaton make it easier to get Daniels the ball, but you're not giving Owen the credit he deserves. He is an athletic TE with very good speed and good route-running ability. If his outstanding production is simply a function of the dual threat AJ and Slaton represent, we should expect his numbers this year to be markedly different than two seasons ago when Slaton was still a BMOC and AJ was nursing his knee. In fact, OD only caught seven more passes and a hundred more yards last year than he did in 2007. When AJ was out from week 3 to week 11, Daniels was second on the team in receptions (33) behind Walter (41), third in receiving yards (396), and was still able to maintain his 12+yds/rec average. Even without AJ and Slaton, OD was a primary target.

 

[threetoedpete]

Owen is a great TE, but I'd be happy to take the draft picks and start Dreesen at TE, maybe pick up a guy like Mark Hafner as an UDFA.

I don't under stand this. Look MS is a good QB. What is going to make him a great QB is having the tools he needs to not get killed. So you're posting you're Going with Joel and a nobody. Joel Dreisen is a second level tight end who is stiff in the hips.....and is no way going to replace ODs production. What's protecting Joel from the unemployment line is that he's worked himself into a pretty fair special teams guy and threw two blocks that resulted in two touch downs last year on special teams. The picks aren't worth the chaos you're going to have on the team. I don't care who you draft with them.

 

[Lucky]

2008 TE TARGETS
Daniels 100
2008 TE REC YDS
Daniels 862

8.6 yards per attempt is not too shabby. 8.6 yards per attempt for a TE is outstanding. Which is why the Texans will give Daniels the highest RFA tender, and retain his services.

 

[TexansLucky13]

8.6 yards per attempt is not too shabby. 8.6 yards per attempt for a TE is outstanding. Which is why the Texans will give Daniels the highest RFA tender, and retain his services.

As far as I am concerned, this is a win/win situation. We will either give OD a well-deserved raise and keep him around, or we will get a set of nice draft picks. I love the guy and hope he stays, but knowing how well Rick Smith can spend those picks... I am content either way.

 

[gtexan02]

Allow me to go on a mini-tangent regarding Julius Peppers. First, I read numerous posts stating that there was no chance of Carolina tagging Peppers. Then, Carolina tags Peppers. Now, I'm reading that the Panthers have "no choice" but to trade Peppers. Excuse me if I remain skeptical over the limitations put on the Carolina franchise by fans and the media.

You're absolutely right. The Panthers can choose to keep Peppers if they want. But it makes absolutely zero sense. If Peppers had intended to stay in Carolina, he would have signed the contract that would have made him the highest paid defensive player in the NFL. They offered him a larger deal than Allen. By turning that contract down, Peppers is effectively saying "Its not about the money." He wants to play somewhere else. He is willing to reject a huge amount of money from Carolina. Maybe they'll choose to keep him anyway, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him sit out and demand a trade.

Let me add this on Peppers. It doesn't matter if Julius prefers to play as a OLB in a 3-4 defense. Why? Because there isn't a team that runs a 3-4 defense that will pay Peppers the mega $million to play out of position. He and his agent must be on the same hallucinogen if they believe the Dolphins or the Cowboys will cough up a contract with the same $large as the Panthers.

I guess I'll use your line here and say "Excuse me if I remain skeptical over the limitations put on [3-4 teams] by fans and the media." There are a lot of teams that run the 3-4. Saying "There isn't a team that runs a 3-4 that will pay Peppers to play out of position" is pure speculation. Peppers never said he would only play for a 3-4 team anyway. He mentioned 4 teams, 2 of which were in the NFC South. Unless the NFC South is changing, Im pretty sure there aren't 2 teams that play the 3-4.

Whoa. As the Bills, why would I limit my options to the TE position? Are we a TE from the Super Bowl? I'm looking at my roster, and I think a stud d-lineman or linebacker would have more impact than a tight end. This TE class is deep. I can pickup a pass catching TE in the 2nd, maybe the 3rd. At a much lower cap figure than Owen Daniels would go for. That would make my owner pretty happy, too.

Now you're just being argumentative. It was a hypothetical, as the rest of the thread is. I said if the bills intend to use their 1st round pick on a TE. A lot of draft information has pointed out a potential link between Pettigrew and the Bills. Obviously its not inked in or anything. Its speculation. But IF the Bills were to look at a guy like Pettigrew in the 1st, then why wouldn't it make more sense to trade a 1st for a proven player like Owen Daniels? You can look at the numbers if you want. There are plenty of articles and data indicating how likely a team is to draft a pro bowl player with each pick. The chance of getting a player who makes the pro bowl even once in their career in the top 10 is ~50%. Why wouldn't you take a guy who you know plays at a pro bowl level? It doesn't make sense.

3rd time's the charm.

Apparently not. Its the offseason. we have to discuss something

 

[keyser]

Just out of curiosity, if we were to get draft picks, would they be for 2009 or 2010? Will we know for sure whether we're keeping Owen Daniels at draft time?

 

[gtexan02]

Just out of curiosity, if we were to get draft picks, would they be for 2009 or 2010? Will we know for sure whether we're keeping Owen Daniels at draft time?

If everything was straight along with the rulebooks, they'd be 2009. But, like with the Schaub deal, teams usually negotiate something else. So it could be like the Schaub trade where we swap picks this year and get a pick next year or any permutation like that

 

[bah007]

If you let Daniels walk for a 1st & 3rd then you have to replace him in the 2nd round.

Our options there are likely Jared Cook, Shawn Nelson, & Chase Coffman. Expect Cook to be the second TE taken and off the board by our selection.

Nelson can replace Daniels' production in the passing game, but can he block? Coffman can be a threat as a receiver, but not the same threat that Daniels is.

The only other TE I see with the same skill set as Daniels is James Casey, who is only one year younger than Owen.

 

[Lucky]

By turning that contract down, Peppers is effectively saying "Its not about the money."

It's always about the $money. Especially when they say, "It's not about the money." Example: Peppers' production in his "contract year" this season, as opposed to his performance in 2007.

 

[gg no re]

I don't know about that one....we spent a lot of days in here on these boards for three years worrying about Jopru. I don't know if that frustration was worth two picks to you. But it is to me. Got a top guy at the position, young, smart, clean off the field...wouldn't you want the guy as your son in law ?

...pay the man.

This.

 

[gtexan02]

It's always about the $money. Especially when they say, "It's not about the money." Example: Peppers' production in his "contract year" this season, as opposed to his performance in 2007.

If its only about the money, why would he turn down the largest contract ever offered to a DE? Why would he limit the teams he is willing to sign with to 4? It sure seems like theres more to it than money for him.

As for Peppers in 2007, I think there was more to it than laziness in a non-contract year. Most NFL players know that you can start talking new deals with your current employer with 1 year left on your contract. If he had recorded a 15 sack season last year, he would have gotten a huge payday from Carolina a year earlier. If it was just about the money, he would have played for it last year.

I think injuries + the QB mess + loss of DL players all contributed to Peppers down season

 

[Mailman]

He lost 1 ball this year.

And it couldn't have come at a worse time for some of us who owned him in our fantasy leagues. Daniels was about one step away from a TD in that week 14 game at Green Bay when the ball got punched out from behind and recovered by the Packers.

 

[Lucky]

If its only about the money, why would he turn down the largest contract ever offered to a DE?

Because he thinks he can get more???

Putting credence into what comes out of the mouths of players, agents, coaches, and GMs this time of year is pointless. The Panthers are trying to get to the Super Bowl. They aren't trading Peppers. And Peppers will play for the franchise $$$ and look to the uncapped year in 2010. If he doesn't get the long term deal he wants from Carolina.

 

[Mailman]

Because he thinks he can get more???

Putting credence into what comes out of the mouths of players, agents, coaches, and GMs this time of year is pointless. The Panthers are trying to get to the Super Bowl. They aren't trading Peppers. And Peppers will play for the franchise $$$ and look to the uncapped year in 2010. If he doesn't get the long term deal he wants from Carolina.

If it's about the money for Peppers, then you have to consider the same financial implications for the Panthers. If you're the GM would you really want to keep a malcontent around for a 17 million dollar hit on your salary cap? I don't see anything other than a trade. Yeah, they could hardball him in a big way, but it won't help them win. Make the trade, save cap space, and get picks in return.

 

[Lucky]

Make the trade, save cap space, and get picks in return.

What trade? Do you really think they're teams lining up to give Peppers $40-50 million in guaranteed money? Peppers is worth more to Carolina than he would be to any other team. Those picks won't help John Fox and Marty Hurney keep their jobs. They have to win now.

 

[Mailman]

What trade? Do you really think they're teams lining up to give Peppers $40-50 million in guaranteed money? Peppers is worth more to Carolina than he would be to any other team. Those picks won't help John Fox and Marty Hurney keep their jobs. They have to win now.

I don't know what the market figure is but I'm absolutely certain there's significant interest in Peppers.

You may argue that the picks won't help the Panthers win (which is very debatable) but the cap space probably will.

 

[AcresHomesTexan]

I don't know about that one....we spent a lot of days in here on these boards for three years worrying about Jopru. I don't know if that frustration was worth two picks to you. But it is to me. Got a top guy at the position, young, smart, clean off the field...wouldn't you want the guy as your son in law ?

...pay the man.

In reality OD is going to be paid, under the situation described by the thread originator he would not by the Texans.

You are evaluating based on the fact that you like him as a person, and not in terms of overall league worth. A GM needs to heartless when making that type of evaluation. Not easy, but what has to be done.

Until you understand how few players are traded for 1st round picks much less first round plus a third plus a large contract, then you are going to keep coming up with stuff like his value to the Texans. Do you really think a meh player like LJ Smith can't catch 55-60 balls and a couple TDs with the Texans? Not a full replacement, but with the extra money and picks you should be able to upgrade other parts of your squad at expense of less from the TE position. Overall value, not just one position. OD, good player, but replacable.

 

[disaacks3]

OD is an upper-echelon player and NOT easily replaceable. Hey, I'd love to give Smith a couple of extra picks to play with too, but you don't take away one of your QB's favorite go-to guys unless you're just looking for trouble.

O.D. isn't the best TE in the league, but he and Schaub ARE on the same page io the way they read the seams in the Defense. THAT is the "hard part" to replace.

Highest RFA tender and pay the man!

 

[Insideop]

And it couldn't have come at a worse time for some of us who owned him in our fantasy leagues. Daniels was about one step away from a TD in that week 14 game at Green Bay when the ball got punched out from behind and recovered by the Packers.

You too! That cost me some money. It was our 1st round playoff and I lost by one point. The guy I lost to won the championship the next week and a about $1000. I got nothing! OD owes me!!!!!

 

[PHAROAH]

Owen Daniels is a very good player who is still growing but if buffalo did offer him a huge contract I'd say take the 1st & 3rd round pick and draft the top TE in the draft. I don't think that will happen and it really doesn't make much since but with all of the other top players contracts coming in the near future like Steve Slaton, Mario Williams & Demeco Ryans you would have to consider it.

 

[TEXANRED]

TD's are not the only barometer for success as an offensive player. AJ has only had 3 seasons with more than 5 TD catches in his career and as a WR he gets alot more opportunities for TD's than Daniels does. I would say he is a very important part of the offense.

As it was stated earlier, Daniels is not the best redzone target for a TE. But that's not where his value is at. His value is making all those 1st down catches on 3rd downs and extending drives, leading to TD catches for other players.

He is a vital part to this offense and if we let him go then who would replace him? I think you would find that our offense would not be ranked #3 in the league if he isn't out there.

You win games by scoring the most points, not who has the most first downs.

We may have finished as a top 5 offense but we finished at the bottom of the league in points scored.

I am not saying its all OD fault but there were 21 other TE's that scored more TD's.

He is not a top 5 or even top 10 TE.

 

[gtexan02]

You win games by scoring the most points, not who has the most first downs.

We may have finished as a top 5 offense but we finished at the bottom of the league in points scored.

I am not saying its all OD fault but there were 21 other TE's that scored more TD's.

He is not a top 5 or even top 10 TE.

Do you consider Andre Johnson to be a poor WR because he only scored 8 times this season? There were about 10 players with more receiving TDs than him.

I dont see how anyone would say Owen Daniels is not a top 10 TE

 

[mattieuk]

You win games by scoring the most points, not who has the most first downs.

We may have finished as a top 5 offense but we finished at the bottom of the league in points scored.

I am not saying its all OD fault but there were 21 other TE's that scored more TD's.

He is not a top 5 or even top 10 TE.

But OD is a large reason we're a top 5 offense at all...

Our whole offense was a poor redzone producer, but that doesn't mean that we have to start cutting and changing it. I think the general consensus here is that more time, better play calling, and a few small changes to personnel (i.e. another RB) will open up our red zone play, develop more of a rushing threat in goal line situations, and thus free up more space for throwing short TD's to OD that you crave so much...

The third ranked in yardage tight end in the NFL last season. The fifth highest in receptions.

Not every TE has the TDs that Gates and Gonzalez have, fine, so what? To say that he's not a top 10 TE, well thats just plain silly.

 

[Old School]

You win games by scoring the most points, not who has the most first downs.

We may have finished as a top 5 offense but we finished at the bottom of the league in points scored.

I am not saying its all OD fault but there were 21 other TE's that scored more TD's.

He is not a top 5 or even top 10 TE.

All this fantasy stuff is fun but when someone pulls a whopper of a statement out like this one it's time for someone to have a reality check. After seeing the stats mentioned in this thread, how can you even suggest he is not a top 10 TE? I say boo to you sir!!

 

[infantrycak]

You win games by scoring the most points, not who has the most first downs.

We may have finished as a top 5 offense but we finished at the bottom of the league in points scored.

I am not saying its all OD fault but there were 21 other TE's that scored more TD's.

He is not a top 5 or even top 10 TE.

Really? Name 10 TE's who are better.

Something you don't seem to understand is suck QB's rely on their TE's and bump up their scoring (cough**VY**cough). Look at the top 10 on scoring and spot the bad QB play--KC, MIA (not bad, but not a long range guy), Min, Chi.

PS--last time I checked, if you don't make first downs the eleven guys on O head to the sideline and never have a chance to score points.

In any event, AT has it nailed. Odds are at any one time there are either 0 or 1 TE's in the league that teams wouldn't trade for a 1st and 3rd. That doesn't mean the TE's suck, just recognizes that is a huge price tag.

 

[The Pencil Neck]

We may have finished as a top 5 offense but we finished at the bottom of the league in points scored.

We were 17th in points scored. We weren't at the bottom.

I am not saying its all OD fault but there were 21 other TE's that scored more TD's.

He is not a top 5 or even top 10 TE.

Huh? How can you say he's not a top 5 TE when he's in the top 5 in the main statistical categories.

How do you rank Chris Cooley? He only had one TD but that doesn't mean that the guy isn't a monster TE (although he's more of an h-back, I think).

 

[Mailman]

Hell, I don't even think there are five TEs who are better than Owen. As a matter of fact, the statheads at Football Outsiders rank OD as the #4 TE in DYAR. Only Gonzalez, Shiancoe, and Witten are ranked higher by Schatz's boys.

 

[Mari-OWNED!]

I hope Owen Daniels doesn't read this message board!

Seriously... I'd be pretty damned disappointed in what most of you guys are saying!

I want Owen Daniels on my team, and it would take A LOT for me to think otherwise.

 

[threetoedpete]

OK. How about this: We get aproched this weekend and offered a one this year and a second next year for Steve Slaton. I've seen the boards....Draft Chris Wells. Draft Brown Draft Shonne Green....under your scenarios....it's only business do the deal ?

I don't think it's going to be as easy to replace OD as some of you are making it out to be. And I think his value to this ball club and this quarterback is priceless. The picks aren't worth it.

 

[AcresHomesTexan]

OK. How about this: We get aproched this weekend and offered a one this year and a second next year for Steve Slaton. I've seen the boards....Draft Chris Wells. Draft Brown Draft Shonne Green....under your scenarios....it's only business do the deal ?

I don't think it's going to be as easy to replace OD as some of you are making it out to be. And I think his value to this ball club and this quarterback is priceless. The picks aren't worth it.

I would take a 1st and 2nd next year for Steve Slaton everyday and twice on Sunday. In relative terms RB maybe the easiest position in the league to replace. You can add other guys like Demeco Ryans and Eric Winston on that list. Because the texans did not have an Owen Daniels, does not mean that TE is a difficult position to replace or at least get acceptable play from in the larger function of the league. Again over focus on one player/position at the cost of not improving the whole.

The only people in the NFL who get offers for 1st and 3rds for are the true elite, and on every once in a while a decent QB. Threetoe, I know you follow the draft and free agency closely and have done so year after year. Call up that experience and remind yourself of how few trades are made in the NFL where a player has been traded for a 1st round pick, much less more.

None of us hate Daniels, but we are not so blinded by our fandom, that we ignore the big picture of the league and value.

 

[threetoedpete]

I'm not blinded by fandom either...our big difference is I know what the value of hitting guys in the fourth and third round is. They're precious. If you trade them you're trading a 100% thing for a 50% proposition. I'll take the bird in the hand every day and twice on Sunday. If it were easy David Carr would be our four time probowl Qb and Jopru would be our stud at TE...and Jabar Gaffney would be our number 2 WR and Jason Babins, Not Harrison, would of led the league in sacks last year. . Our fortunes with the draft have turned around the last couple of drafts....that doesn't mean it's always going to be that way. How soon they forget ? If we're hitting starters in the seventh round that's more of luck than provedence. Unless you're saying you are certain that Percy Harvan can make the transition to Rb....there are no Steve Slaton's nor Chriss Johnson's in this class of RBs. and as someone has all ready pointed out....no ODs either. Only prosects with the chance to catch OD in a couple of years.

 

[AcresHomesTexan]

I'm not blinded by fandom either...our big difference is I know what the value of hitting guys in the fourth and third round is. They're precious. If you trade them you're trading a 100% thing for a 50% proposition. I'll take the bird in the hand every day and twice on Sunday. If it were easy David Carr would be our four time probowl Qb and Jopru would be our stud at TE...and Jabar Gaffney would be our number 2 WR aand Jason Babins, Not Harrison, would of led the league in sacks last year. . Our fortunes with the draft have turned around the last couple of drafts....that doesn't mean it's always going to be that way. How soon they forget ?

I will just say the good news for both us that given the big picture of the NFL, no one (98% sure) will be offering 1st and 3rd for OD with an expensive contract that was outlined in this thread, so this was just an exercise in what if.

i would be in total shock if the Texans don't give him the largest RFA tag (1st and 3rd) and/or sign him to a long term contract. That way we both can enjoy watching him for a few years versus bickering over something that's a longshot to happen anyway.

 

[steelbtexan]

TTP

I agree with you, but after I talked to Schaub & saw how he felt about the deal, if he said he could do witout OD I would do the deal.

 

[WolverineFan]

You win games by scoring the most points, not who has the most first downs.

We may have finished as a top 5 offense but we finished at the bottom of the league in points scored.

I am not saying its all OD fault but there were 21 other TE's that scored more TD's.

He is not a top 5 or even top 10 TE.

When we got into the redzone we didn't score TD's, we kicked FG's. And while Owen isn't the best redzone target, without him we wouldn't have even been in the redzone to start with.

Once again TD's are not the only barometer of success for an offensive player. He helps get us down the field so that we can put it into the endzone. He doesn't have to score the TD himself to be an asset to the team.

 

[gtexan02]

This has been a pretty interesting thread, and just further proves why I think NFL teams overvalue draft picks.

This graph is for DEs only, but I still found it interesting:

http://www.advancednflstats.com/2008/04/drafting-defensive-ends.html
As you can see, the likelihood of selecting a probowl caliber player, even in round 1, is only 50%. The chance of getting a guy who makes multiple pro bowls is less than 1 in 5. Why teams readily give up pro bowl players, whom they know fit their system, for rookies is beyond me

 

[Polo]

This has been a pretty interesting thread, and just further proves why I think NFL teams overvalue draft picks.

This graph is for DEs only, but I still found it interesting:

http://www.advancednflstats.com/2008/04/drafting-defensive-ends.html
As you can see, the likelihood of selecting a probowl caliber player, even in round 1, is only 50%. The chance of getting a guy who makes multiple pro bowls is less than 1 in 5. Why teams readily give up pro bowl players, whom they know fit their system, for rookies is beyond me

Who said you need a bunch of pro-bowlers to win big games?

Look at the cowboys from recent years past.

 

[gtexan02]

Who said you need a bunch of pro-bowlers to win big games?

Look at the cowboys from recent years past.

Try not to take things at face value. The point of this is to extrapolate. Good teams usually have more pro bowlers. Pro bowls is just an indication of success. For DEs, they also have sacks by draft order, and it shows a similar correlation

 

[buddyboy]

You win games by scoring the most points, not who has the most first downs.

We may have finished as a top 5 offense but we finished at the bottom of the league in points scored.

I am not saying its all OD fault but there were 21 other TE's that scored more TD's.

He is not a top 5 or even top 10 TE.

Lots of people have already commented on this, but there's so much truth to what they've been saying, I have to say it also.

You can't score if you don't get first downs. It's not all about TDs. He made the probowl, so he's probably top ten, if not top five.

 

[HoustonFrog]

I'll make it simple. Take the picks. Despite my thinking that Daniels can be a Top 5 TE, he still isn't used as often as one would think and for the amount of touches he gets, the picks are much more valuable. Heck, most TEs would need to be let go for the picks.

 

[Polo]

Owen Daniels is a system TE.

He is not a guy that is going to excel in every offense.

My point about "pro-bowl" is that sometimes it's just a title. Many guys have had pro-bowl next to their names. Will Demps wasn't far from having it next to his name last year.

Is Owen Daniels now all of a sudden much more valueable than D-rob or Steve Slaton because he has a pro-bowl on his resume? Is he more important to us than Schaub or Kevin Walter?
You have to consider the postion he plays.

Owen Daniels had a better year than a lot of really talented TE's...For some reason I don't think that all has to do with his talent...

Go look at the stats for TE's last year and look at the players attached to some of those stats and try to argue that many of those TE's wouldn't be doing just as good or better than OD in our offense....

Don't get me wrong, I like Owen Daniels and I think he's a really good TE....But he's not elite...He's not a guy that does a lot after the catch...He's not snagging balls in traffic...And he's not a huge threat in the redzone because of his size...

 

[gtexan02]

Don't get me wrong, I like Owen Daniels and I think he's a really good TE....But he's not elite...He's not a guy that does a lot after the catch...He's not snagging balls in traffic...And he's not a huge threat in the redzone because of his size...

I dont know why so many people have such a negative impression of OD

"He's not a guy that does a lot after the catch"

Daniels is #1 in yards after catch among all AFC TEs with 430 and second in the NFL behind Chris Cooley's 475.

With regards to his snagging balls, I really wonder where your thought is coming from. After watching him this year, I really think he snags balls out of the air better than many receivers. He can take a hit and hold on to the ball better than most of the guys on the team.

As for the height issue, Daniels is listed as 6'3". The top 5 TEs for scoring touchdowns average 6'4". I really dont think that 1" of difference is the key factor here.

Maybe Daniels is a system TE, but he works well in our system, and thats all that really matters as a Texan fan

 

[Polo]

I don't know who you were watching, but from earlier in the thread:

"He's not a guy that does a lot after the catch"


With regards to his snagging balls, I really wonder where your thought is coming from. After watching him this year, I really think he snags balls out of the air better than many receivers. He can take a hit and hold on to the ball better than most of the guys on the team.

As for the height issue, Daniels is listed as 6'3". The top 5 TEs for scoring touchdowns average 6'4". I really dont think that 1" of difference is the key factor here.

Maybe Daniels is a system TE, but he works well in our system, and thats all that really matters as a Texan fan

Size is not only height related.
Catching a ball in traffic is not the same as holding onto the ball after taking a hit...I'm talking about catching the ball when you have one or two DB's blanketing you...Snagging the ball...Owen isn't that kind of TE...Even if he does it once or twice (and I don't recall any), he's not the TE that going to do that consistently...

As I stated...Daniels had a better year than a lot of TE's, but if you look at the list you'd be hard pressed to argue that many of those TE's wouldn't be doing just as good or better in our system.

Heap, Winslow, Gates are just a few that immediately come to mind. Even a guy like Greg Olsen would probably have as good a year if not better in our system.

 

[Mailman]

Todd Heap??? LOLOL

 

[AnthonyE]

Todd Heap??? LOLOL

rofl! Best reaction ever.

 

[Mailman]

Re-post for Polo.

2008 TE TARGETS

1. Gonzalez 154
2. Witten 121
3. Cooley 111
4. Clark 107
5. Daniels 100
6. Gates 92
7. Zach Miller 86
8. Scaife 84
9. Olsen 82
10. Winslow 82

2008 TE REC

1. Gonzalez 96
2. Cooley 83
3. Witten 81
4. Clark 77
5. Daniels 70
6. Gates 60
7. Scaife 58
8. Miller 56
9. Carlson 55
10. Olsen 54

2008 TE REC YDS

1. Gonzalez 1058
2. Witten 952
3. Daniels 862
4. Cooley 849
5. Clark 848
6. Miller 778
7. Gates 704
8. Scheffler 645
9. Carlson 627
10. Shiancoe 596

2008 TE REC FOR 1ST DOWN

1. Gonzalez 67
2. Witten 50
3. Daniels 47
4. Cooley 45
5. Clark 41
6. Gates 40
7. Carlson 36
8. Miller 32
9. Keller 32
10. Olsen 32

2008 TE REC YDS ON 3RD + 4TH DOWN

1. Gonzalez 328
2. Witten 322
3. Daniels 235
4. Gates 214
5. Cooley 211
6. Scaife 209
7. B. Miller 176
8. Olsen 163
9. Clark 160
10. Heap 157

Daniels is #1 in yards after catch among all AFC TEs with 430 and second in the NFL behind Chris Cooley's 475.

OD was second on the team in first down receptions with 47 behind you-know-who with 81. He had eight more catches for a first down than Walter and five more targets, but six fewer TDs. Walter caught all those TDs in part because of OD's threat in the red zone. Walter got twenty three red zone targets in 2008 and five TDs compared to OD's ten targets and two TDs.

 

[Specnatz]

The numbers for Gonzales and Clark are skewed because those teams have nothing for WR and the Texans have AJ and Walter.

 

[Polo]

The numbers for Gonzales and Clark are skewed because those teams have nothing for WR and the Yexans have AJ and Walter.

What ?

 

[Polo]

OD was second on the team in first down receptions with 47 behind you-know-who with 81. He had eight more catches for a first down than Walter and five more targets, but six fewer TDs. Walter caught all those TDs in part because of OD's threat in the red zone. Walter got twenty three red zone targets in 2008 and five TDs compared to OD's ten targets and two TDs.

Daniels had a better year than a lot of TE's, but if you look at the list you'd be hard pressed to argue that many of those TE's wouldn't be doing just as good or better in our system.

Wash, rinse and repeat...

 

[Mailman]

That's a ridiculous statement to make. One could make the same argument about Jason Witten or Dallas Clark. You're not giving Owen Daniels the credit he deserves. His production in this offense is just as dependent upon his athleticism and football acumen as it is the x-and-o schemes constructed by Gary Kubiak and Kyle Shanahan.

Of course guys like Gates and Winslow would flourish in this system. No duh. Nobody is arguing that OD is the best TE in football. We're saying that he is in the top-five.

Todd Heap isn't even close.