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This team was an undisciplined wreck. Penalty after penalty after penalty after penalty after penalty. And dumb ones too. Ones that will kill you once the real games start. Bill O'Brien is supposed to be a game prepper and a disciplinarian and this game showed hallmarks of the exact same problems which plagued the team in the last three years. If you're gonna be hyped incessantly as a guy who crosses his t's and dots his i's, you better ****ing do it.
All good takes but this one stood out for me. Anyone else catch the Tillman quote when JJo got beat for the TD in the first quarter -- "it's rare that people challenge him as often as they do". Nice.Imagine for a moment that SJL and Spencer Tillman had a child. How dumb could someone possibly speak?
I agree he might take the starting job eventually. I like what I saw. Now we need to see what he can do against the first team defenders.If he stays healthy, he'll eventually take the starting job and be pretty good. As good as Arian Foster in his good days? I'm not committing to that just yet.
PROFOOTBALLFOCUS
NFL Analysis
PFF experts use our exclusive player grades and signature stats to analyze the performance of each NFL team and player.
Refocused: Carolina Panthers 27, Houston Texans 17
By PFF Analysis Team • Aug 10, 2017
CHARLOTTE, NC - AUGUST 09:
Week 2 of the preseason is officially upon us as the Houston Texans traveled to Carolina to face the Panthers. The game featured the much-anticipated debuts of Texans first round pick Deshaun Watson and Panthers first round selection Christian McCaffrey but it was a veteran receiver who stole the show early.
Ultimately, the Panthers defended their home field and edged out the visiting Texans, 27-17. With that, here are our exclusive PFF takeaways as we refocus on the game:
Top 5 Grades
EDGE Bryan Cox, 86.4 overall grade
WR Damiere Byrd, 83.7 overall grade
G David Yankey, 82.7 overall grade
WR Kelvin Benjamin, 81.7 overall grade
S Dezmen Southward, 81.3 overall grade
Performances of note:
WR Damiere Byrd, 83.7 overall grade
Byrd shredded Texans CB Robert Nelson for four receptions – on four targets – for all 98 of his receiving yards, and a pair of touchdowns. Backup QB Joe Webb connected with Byrd for scoring strikes of 50 yards and another from eight yards that proved to be the game-winning score. Byrd posted an impressive 6.13 yards per route run average over 16 snaps in route.
WR Kelvin Benjamin, 81.7 overall grade
Benjamin would only see the field for nine total snaps but, if anyone required proof of his current condition, he left a very strong impression. Collecting both of his targeted passes from QB Derek Anderson, Benjamin stiff-armed his way to a 17-yard pickup, and followed that with an end zone fade over Houston CB Denzel Rice for a 23-yard touchdown. If incumbent starting QB Cam Newton were to miss time, this connection bodes well for the outcome. Benjamin posted an absurd 8.00 yards per route run on five total routes.
EDGE Bryan Cox, 86.4 overall grade
The Panthers need support from the backup pass-rushers this season, and got just that from Cox tonight. He flustered Houston edge blockers all night, racking up two QB hits and four hurries on just 21 rushes. His pass-rush grade of 83.9 and run defense grade of 84.2 were both tops for Carolina.
EDGE Daeshon Hall, 81.0 overall grade
While Hall posted five total pressures against the Texans, his play against the run was not as strong, as his 49.9 run defense grade shows he still has significant work to do on that phase of his game. He also failed to recognize play-action rollouts to his side multiple times, which allowed Houston quarterbacks to survey the field on several uncontested throws.
Top 5 Grades
S Corey Moore, 85.8 overall grade
LB Zach Cunningham, 84.5 overall grade
EDGE Gimel President, 82.7 overall grade
DI Brandon Dunn, 81.3 overall grade
S Kurtis Drummond, 79.7 overall grade
Performances of note:
QB Deshaun Watson, 79.0 overall grade
Watson’s debut was solid, albeit unspectacular. While he completed 15-of-26 aimed passes, he went just 4-for-12 on throws that traveled at least 10 yards through the air. This was largely due to him sailing several seam routes, something he was prone to do at Clemson as well. While he also seemed to struggle processing information in the secondary, and vacated the pocket early on a number of instances, the Texans have to be encouraged by the fact he didn’t force a single ball into a bad spot tonight.
RG Josh Walker, 79.5 overall grade
Walker put in a strong performance, surrendering just one hurry on 32 pass blocking reps. He also performed well in the run game, as his 81.2 run blocking grade was second-best on the Texans’ roster.
LB Zach Cunningham, 84.5 overall grade
Cunningham didn’t leave notions of his progress to the imagination on Wednesday night, as he took the field in his first NFL game, and led the team with eight total tackles. Not only that, but he also closed out the night without missing a tackle, and permitted only four yards on 19 coverage snaps to average a paltry 0.21 yards per snap in coverage.
S Corey Moore, 85.8 overall grade
Speaking of impressive performances in coverage, Moore saw 16 snaps without allowing a single reception, and also came away with the interception thrown by Panthers QB Joe Webb as time wound down at the end of the first half. His coverage grade following the conclusion of the first preseason game: 89.0.
PFF Game Ball: Zach Cunningham
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With his oustanding play against the run (87.1 run defense grade), the Texans’ rookie backer is tonight’s top player. He produced eight total tackles tonight (five of them of the solo variety), and in coverage gave up just one catch for four yards.
Locally the game was televised on ABC. I was surprised the NFL Network channel blacked it out here in Houston which I gather was because of the ABC coverage ?Since the game is under blackout restrictions I won't be able to watch the game live. NFL Network has to skip over it for their show A Football Life.
Doesn't appear to be any live feeds worth a dime either.
Yep. My opinion may not be popular, but it will probably prove to be right.
My take on Watson is a little different than the start him right now Kool Aid crowd. I thought his intermediate and long pass accuracy was not good. Some of his short passes were behind the receiver. He looked at and stare down only one WR. He did tuck and run a couple of times when it was not necessary and he did all that against Home Depot and Lowes. A rookie playing his very first NFL game it was about what was expected. Savage needed to take a Xanax.
You do realize we were the least penalized team in the league last season with 87. In 2015 we were middle of the pack with 107 and in 2014 were the 8th least penalized with 94. While last night was certainly bad, I fail to see "hallmarks of the exact problems which plagued this team in the last three years", if anything last night seemed like an aberration based on our history.
http://www.footballdb.com/stats/penalties.html
NFL Network is about to replay the game @ 9:00am CDT
They will replay it again at 3:00pm today.
I'm with you and Texian. Watson shows much promise but until he can hit those seam routes regularly, he's not ready to start. A couple of those throws might have had a chance if he had put some air under the ball.I tend to agree with you with the caveat that it was better than your average rookie. I am cautiously optimistic, but definitely don't want him starting any time soon.
My only issue with predicting a QB is going to bust, is that it's like predicting a UDFA won't make the team. Finding a franchise QB is tough and we're going to go through mostly failures before we finally hit on one. So sticking your neck out, and saying Watson isn't the guy, doesn't really impress me. Odds are, he isn't.While I disagree with you, I like that you make a prediction early and stick by your prediction. You called Os before the 1st game was played, so your opinion carries more weight with me than if somebody else said the same thing.
Most posters aren't willing to stick their necks out like this and if they do they're immediately called a hater.
While I disagree with you, I like that you make a prediction early and stick by your prediction. You called Os before the 1st game was played, so your opinion carries more weight with me than if somebody else said the same thing.
Most posters aren't willing to stick their necks out like this and if they do they're immediately called a hater.
I don't see any reason to keep starting Savage. Tenure is the only advantage he has.
Yeah Watson needs to improve this or improve that. Whatever. He's the better player.
I didn't even like it when they drafted Savage. But he did improve a little from year to year, IMO.Watson looked the better player last night, but it's a small sample size. Watson did get a lot more time to make plays. I think the more prudent thing to do would be to give the two guys equal reps with the 1st and maybe some 2nd stringers in the second preseason game and see how they perform.
It really was a small sample size. Watson is not gun shy and is a rookie, so you may see an INT in the next game, which will pump our fan hopes breaks quickly. Savage may perform very well in contrast to that. That's certainly possible.
I think we need a bit more time to make that decision, but I'm leaning toward your same position.
You do realize we were the least penalized team in the league last season with 87. In 2015 we were middle of the pack with 107 and in 2014 were the 8th least penalized with 94. While last night was certainly bad, I fail to see "hallmarks of the exact problems which plagued this team in the last three years", if anything last night seemed like an aberration based on our history.
http://www.footballdb.com/stats/penalties.html
Watson looked the better player last night, but it's a small sample size. Watson did get a lot more time to make plays. I think the more prudent thing to do would be to give the two guys equal reps with the 1st and maybe some 2nd stringers in the second preseason game and see how they perform.
It really was a small sample size. Watson is not gun shy and is a rookie, so you may see an INT in the next game, which will pump our fan hopes breaks quickly. Savage may perform very well in contrast to that. That's certainly possible.
I think we need a bit more time to make that decision, but I'm leaning toward your same position.
Just watched the game.
God I hate our play designs.
I especially hate running Miller up the gut. His first instinct when he gets hit is to lunge forward, fall down and take the 2 or 3 yard gain. I'd much rather pitch the ball to him or use him in the passing game.
Blue looked like guy playing for his next contract.
Savage knows 100% of the Offense, Watson less than 50%. Watson looked better going against Carolina's 2s and 3s. Savage was going against Carolina #1 D. Perspective. Look at it this way, when O'Brien thinks Watson can speak Spanish well enough, then and only then will he send him to Mexico City.I don't see any reason to keep starting Savage. Tenure is the only advantage he has.
Yeah Watson needs to improve this or improve that. Whatever. He's the better player.
Savage knows 100% of the Offense, Watson less than 50%. Watson looked better going against Carolina's 2s and 3s. Savage was going against Carolina #1 D. Perspective. Look at it this way, when O'Brien thinks Watson can speak Spanish well enough, then and only then will he send him to Mexico City.
Correct, however Savage's first two series that were tough going had more to do with Carolina's #1 D, the Oline looking like a 6 lane toll way on a free toll day and Savage holding on to the ball to long.Carolina had already put in back ups for Savage’s TD. They both scored on backups.
Savage knows 100% of the Offense, Watson less than 50%. Watson looked better going against Carolina's 2s and 3s. Savage was going against Carolina #1 D. Perspective. Look at it this way, when O'Brien thinks Watson can speak Spanish well enough, then and only then will he send him to Mexico City.
Savage knows 100% of the Offense, Watson less than 50%. Watson looked better going against Carolina's 2s and 3s. Savage was going against Carolina #1 D. Perspective. Look at it this way, when O'Brien thinks Watson can speak Spanish well enough, then and only then will he send him to Mexico City.
patrickVerified account@PatDStat 1h1 hour ago
Credit OB for leaving the first team OLine in there for Watson during his 1st series to make sure he was settled. Mancz was the center.
When will we see Savage actually run 100% of the offense.
He's not sticking his neck out. He's being consistent. Everything he says about the Texans is negative.
Amen.Most posters aren't willing to stick their necks out like this and if they do they're immediately called a hater.
Savage knows 100% of the Offense, Watson less than 50%. Watson looked better going against Carolina's 2s and 3s. Savage was going against Carolina #1 D. Perspective. Look at it this way, when O'Brien thinks Watson can speak Spanish well enough, then and only then will he send him to Mexico City.
Desean.
Pro Football FocusVerified account@PFF
D'Onta Foreman showed some of what made him a success at Texas in the preseason opener
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OK, but you said Watson looked better against the 2's and 3's. But Savage, against the 2's marched straight down the field, completed 8 of 8, and scored. IMO, this does not support the contention that Watson looked better.Correct, however Savage's first two series that were tough going had more to do with Carolina's #1 D, the Oline looking like a 6 lane toll way on a free toll day and Savage holding on to the ball to long.
I see it's been pointed out Savage didn't look good until he was out there with starters against back ups.
But People seem to think that this is just about 1 pre season game. It's not.
Savage not being anything special in college aside, the guy has gotten NFL snaps before and he's NEVER looked as impressive as Watson did his first time out.
People are wanting Savage to hold him off like Savage has some kind of solid play on his resume. Like Savage is a safe bet until the high upside rookie gets his shot together. If Savage was on any other team and we only had Watson and Weeden who would be advocating that we bring in Tom Savage as a stop gap?
The answer is no one. Well, maybe Seegara. But he doesn't count.
The only reason Savage is the starter is by default because all the other Qbs they brought in to keep him off the field have been big time failures.
For me it's not even about Watson becoming a superstar QB. It's about him already being more talented and him having a much higher upside.
When Seattle drafted Wilson they saw he was more talented than what's his face. Didn't matter that they had a guy who had started and won NFL games. They went with the younger more talented player and expedited his development.
If Watson is good he'll rise to the top. If not he'll be what he becomes. But sitting on the bench behind Savage isn't going to make him any better than what he's destined to become. This is Watson's team. Let him have it. All theyre doing is delaying the inevitable. Make the change now and ride it out for the next however many years.
As far as trusting OB to know when he's ready....yeah his qb decisions have worked out so well in the past. Maybe he should start doing the opposite of what he thinks is the right path to take. Him thinking Watson should sit behind Savage until some made up point in time is even more reason to do the opposite.
Like I said, the only advantage Savage has is tenure. And until Savage is no longer here he'll always be the longest tenured qb on the roster with the most experience in this "system".
Savage can be a game manager. He won't lose us too many games and he won't win us many games.
TJ didn't take that long to throw a TD pass though.Savage is a notch above TJ Yates, if he can stay healthy? more upside, better arm but Watson is several notches above Savage. Deshaun has the highest ceiling, most command @ line of scrimmage, mobility to extend plays, ala Russell Wilson also with similar leadership and moxie.
Spell check often fails me