NRG Stadium's Hazardous Turf

[infantrycak]

When is the trial? Egdorf was talking about deposing McNair/O'Brien/Clowney yet. If they're going to change the surface I think it'll become evident in the next few months. And if they're planning the change, wouldn't that be readily discoverable by asking them under oath?

January 15th they continued the January 26th trial setting to the 2 week docket for April 20th.

Subsequent remedial measures as a general rule are not admissible at trial BUT there is a huge exception - they can come in if feasibility is disputed. So it would be fair game at depositions...which means there is a snowballs chance in hell they have even considered such a change other than a general awareness other teams have different fields - "we haven't considered it, we see no need to replace our perfectly fine field."

The motion for continuance was a joint motion. They have mediated and not reached a settlement but say there are ongoing discussions (don't read too much into that, it's a fairly boilerplate reason to put down for a continuance).

 

[steelbtexan]

I'm highly dubious of anyone at the Texans saying there will be a field change to anyone in the media prior to the trial. If they did, Rick Smith is walking around on Kirby with a machete.

He would probably cut his own hand off and tell what a clean cut he made.

 

[Marshall]

Pretty cavalier with other people's money.

IF that is even possible, you're talking something which would put the stadium out of commission for a season. I don't think it's possible without essentially rebuilding the stadium.

I was just wondering if there were some way to kill two birds with one stone.

Perhaps converting the Astrodome into a special events center for those events requiring the removal of the grass during the football season, while expensive, would be cheaper than the modification of NRG stadium AND preserve the Dome.

Asbestos removal will have to be done regardless so it should not be included in cost estimates for the conversion. Treat it like DEAD MONEY. Then we will have additional facilities in place should we ever pursue the Olympics. That is something I would like to see at least once in my lifetime in Houston.

 

[Troy Chapman]

Per Pat Starr

Might be out there, but sounds like the #Texans will be switching to field turf for tw upcoming season.

Sounds like it all but a done deal, but the field turf looks more than likely for NRG. #Texans

 

[JB]

Per Pat Starr

who is Pat Starr?

 

[DX-TEX]

who is Pat Starr?

https://twitter.com/PatDStat

Also runs and owns:

http://hou.scout.com/story/1511063-repot-nrg-stadium-to-change-to-field-turf?s=116

Good follow on Twitter and appears on 790

 

[Playoffs]

who is Pat Starr?

Report: NRG Stadium To Change To Field Turf
A change to NRG's Playing surface is on the horizon

A source close to the situation at NRG Stadium reports that the stadium will be moving to field turf instead of natural grass. The natural grass has been used since the stadium opened in 2002, when the Houston Texans became a NFL franchise.

In recent seasons, NRG Stadium has used field turf as the playing surface in particular high school and college football games. The stadium is operated by SMG World and owned by Harris County. The natural grass playing surface is hauled in on pallets and is fit together to make the game field on game days for the Texans.

There have been many questions surrounding the playing surface at NRG Stadium and the seams that can been seen from the seats of onlookers during the game. The change looks imminent for the upcoming season and beyond for the Texans.

 

[infantrycak]

Y'all still aren't answering who Pat Starr is other than someone with a pay website.

 

[JB]

Report: NRG Stadium To Change To Field Turf
A change to NRG's Playing surface is on the horizon

So, he's a blogger?

 

[281]

AWESOME news!!! I wish we had done it before last season, who knows the type of year Clowney would have had.

 

[Playoffs]

Y'all still aren't answering who Pat Starr is other than someone with a website.

Pat owns/runs State Of The Texans and has been covering the Texans for years now. Dude can call Kubiak's plays before they're run... he did that in our game vs. Ravens, was kinda funny.

I imagine this originated from the radio interview segment of Egdorf. I'm trying to see if he's got a second, independent source.

 

[infantrycak]

Pat owns/runs State Of The Texans and has been covering the Texans for years now. Dude can call Kubiak's plays before they're run... he did that in our game vs. Ravens, was kinda funny.

I imagine this originated from the radio interview segment of Egdorf. I'm trying to see if he's got a second, independent source.

I'm not doubting his football knowledge. AJ who used to be on here had great football knowledge and wrote articles/blogs.

Doesn't mean they have insider information.

 

[Playoffs]

Doesn't mean they have insider information.

I understand, but this is beginning to appear like it's common knowledge. Checking with other beat writers to see if they'll spill the beans.

I know that O'Brien specifically mentioned that he likes field turf in a presser this season.

 

[DX-TEX]

I'm not doubting his football knowledge. AJ who used to be on here had great football knowledge and wrote articles/blogs.

Doesn't mean they have insider information.

I can not remember a time he was wrong with what he "heard"

 

[infantrycak]

I understand, but this is beginning to appear like it's common knowledge. Checking with other beat writers to see if they'll spill the beans.

I know that O'Brien specifically mentioned that he likes field turf in a presser this season.

Well they're complete morons if they let this out.

As to "common" if it all goes back to the plaintiff's lawyer then he's succeeding in his mission of tainting the jury pool...with willing accomplices.

 

[Speedy]

AWESOME news!!! I wish we had done it before last season, who knows the type of year Clowney would have had.

Right! And the Cardinals will probably be next to switch because there's no telling how far they could have gone in the playoffs if they hadn't lost Palmer on their crappy grass field.

 

[DX-TEX]

Well they're complete morons if they let this out.

As to "common" if it all goes back to the plaintiff's lawyer then he's succeeding in his mission of tainting the jury pool...with willing accomplices.

Or they have reached a settlement with Hartmann instead of making O'Brien, Clowney and McNair take the stand.

 

[Playoffs]

Well they're complete morons if they let this out...

Sounds like it, but could see it coming from football/training/medical side who aren't thinking about the legal implications or just don't understand them. We'll see.

 

[austins23]

Doesn't NRG put down field turf for High School games? If it does, that is not put down the same as the grass, i.e. square trays, is it?

Apparently they do. Question is, why wasn't it changed sooner? Maybe it's more trouble to get the field turf in and out for other events?

 

[infantrycak]

Apparently they do. Question is, why wasn't it changed sooner? Maybe it's more trouble to get the field turf in and out for other events?

They have a low grade Field Turf product that is marketed for HS use (only a couple colleges use it). A regular field for the NFL would be different.

As to why it hasn't been changed, aside from the very strong and informed opinions of fans, NFL players prefer grass by something like 90% and rank Houston's field as about 8-10th among the 18 grass NFL fields.

But hey, when players start going down with the extra knee and leg injuries Field Turf causes at least the field will look pretty.

 

[austins23]

They have a low grade Field Turf product that is marketed for HS use (only a couple colleges use it). A regular field for the NFL would be different.

As to why it hasn't been changed, aside from the very strong and informed opinions of fans, NFL players prefer grass by something like 90% and rank Houston's field as about 8-10th among the 18 grass NFL fields.

But hey, when players start going down with the extra knee and leg injuries Field Turf causes at least the field will look pretty.

Does anyone have any idea how the Field Turf field is installed and broke down? I'm gonna guess it's not in squares.
Why would High Schools use lower grade Field Turf? $$$? Football is football.

 

[b0ng]

They have a low grade Field Turf product that is marketed for HS use (only a couple colleges use it). A regular field for the NFL would be different.

As to why it hasn't been changed, aside from the very strong and informed opinions of fans, NFL players prefer grass by something like 90% and rank Houston's field as about 8-10th among the 18 grass NFL fields.

But hey, when players start going down with the extra knee and leg injuries Field Turf causes at least the field will look pretty.

I don't understand why you are choosing to defend the crappy turf the Texans currently use and are denigrating other options for the field. It's weird.

Also Pat Starr has been linked many times on this forum for various stories about the Texans that haven't been reported by the chron. He's not really a true source for all things Texans but he has been blogging/tweeting on them for many years.

 

[Playoffs]

I imagine this originated from the radio interview segment of Egdorf. I'm trying to see if he's got a second, independent source.

No confirmations, so I think this is what sourced the report. http://houston.cbslocal.com/2015/02...rien-and-clowney-will-be-deposed-in-smg-suit/

So either Pendergast or Meltser -- don't know the different voices.

 

[infantrycak]

Does anyone have any idea how the Field Turf field is installed and broke down? I'm gonna guess it's not in squares.
Why would High Schools use lower grade Field Turf? $$$? Football is football.

Comes in rolls so there are seams but much fewer.

Like anything else there are price ranges. Getting to work is just driving but some people do it in a Hyundai and others in a Ferrari. There is a ton of variation in underlayment, filler, etc. in the various FieldTurf options.

I don't understand why you are choosing to defend the crappy turf the Texans currently use and are denigrating other options for the field. It's weird.

Actually I'm not denigrating other options so much as reactionary fans. Been real consistent about this. I don't give a crap what the field looks like. I want the field the players like best/is best for them which is consistent with the building. That would clearly be grass which doesn't get removed and has assistance from grow lights. Short of that given the rankings of the players for our field (middle of 18 grass fields) it would be better to work on making it the best possible rather than going to FieldTurf.

FieldTurf is not preferred by players. Around 90% of them say they (a) prefer grass (b) FieldTurf causes more injuries than grass and (c) FieldTurf leaves them more sore and with longer recovery times than grass. Because of those it is also believed to affect longevity of players particularly those with prior surgeries. That's why when the Texans go in the practice bubble (FieldTurf) guys like AJ, OD, etc. don't practice. Studies have born out the players' beliefs (albeit some of them are from older versions).

Back to the fans, I also think it's ridiculous fans take every allegation (all 3 of them) by anyone (only 1 by the player) as gospel.

Also Pat Starr has been linked many times on this forum for various stories about the Texans that haven't been reported by the chron. He's not really a true source for all things Texans but he has been blogging/tweeting on them for many years.

Been over this already. He may be a football genius, doesn't mean he has inside knowledge. And what he is reporting would be monumentally stupid for the Texans to let leak. As Playoffs has conjectured, this looks like just a repeat of the prior radio conjecture with the plaintiff's attorney.

 

[steelbtexan]

AWESOME news!!! I wish we had done it before last season, who knows the type of year Clowney would have had.

Career?

 

[281]

Career?

Yup, maybe career...

 

[steelbtexan]

Comes in rolls so there are seams but much fewer.

Like anything else there are price ranges. Getting to work is just driving but some people do it in a Hyundai and others in a Ferrari. There is a ton of variation in underlayment, filler, etc. in the various FieldTurf options.



Actually I'm not denigrating other options so much as reactionary fans. Been real consistent about this. I don't give a crap what the field looks like. I want the field the players like best/is best for them which is consistent with the building. That would clearly be grass which doesn't get removed and has assistance from grow lights. Short of that given the rankings of the players for our field (middle of 18 grass fields) it would be better to work on making it the best possible rather than going to FieldTurf.

FieldTurf is not preferred by players. Around 90% of them say they (a) prefer grass (b) FieldTurf causes more injuries than grass and (c) FieldTurf leaves them more sore and with longer recovery times than grass. Because of those it is also believed to affect longevity of players particularly those with prior surgeries. That's why when the Texans go in the practice bubble (FieldTurf) guys like AJ, OD, etc. don't practice. Studies have born out the players' beliefs (albeit some of them are from older versions).



Been over this already. He may be a football genius, doesn't mean he has inside knowledge. And what he is reporting would be monumentally stupid for the Texans to let leak. As Playoffs has conjectured, this looks like just a repeat of the prior radio conjecture with the plaintiff's attorney.

We can see regardless of how many players get hurt/lawsuits filed/the eye test you will not be changing your mind.

Pat Starr has broken stories before, time will tell if he's gets this one right. Luckily a judge/jury will be deciding the Hartmann case and not you. If I didn't know better (Figure of speech) I would think you're one of Harris County/McNair's lawyer in this matter.

 

[infantrycak]

We can see regardless of how many players get hurt/lawsuits filed/the eye test you will not be changing your mind.

When someone can show that problems with our field exceed the increased problems associated with FieldTurf over grass then we can talk and I'll be perfectly open to changing my mind. Sorry I don't go for shallow analysis like yours.

Pat Starr has broken stories before, time will tell if he's gets this one right. Luckily a judge/jury will be deciding the Hartmann case and not you. If I didn't know better (Figure of speech) I would think you're one of Harris County/McNair's lawyer in this matter.

And your judgment would be poor again. If Hartmann can provide evidence there was a defect then he'd have a shot with me.

You're the hilarious one here Mr. Everything is a Frivolous Lawsuit, oh except when you want to bag on the Texans. But if it reflects poorly on them then whatever Hartmann alleges must be true, no proof needed.

 

[steelbtexan]

When someone can show that problems with our field exceed the increased problems associated with FieldTurf over grass then we can talk and I'll be perfectly open to changing my mind. Sorry I don't go for shallow analysis like yours.



And your judgment would be poor again. If Hartmann can provide evidence there was a defect then he'd have a shot with me.

You're the hilarious one here Mr. Everything is a Frivolous Lawsuit, oh except when you want to bag on the Texans. But if it reflects poorly on them then whatever Hartmann alleges must be true, no proof needed.

You're known for your flexability and the ability to change your mind?

We will see about the Hartmann case.

Wrong, I want the Texans to win the Hartmann lawsuit because if the Texans/McNair's lose then I can count on my season ticket prices being raised. The field does reflect poorly on both the Texans/Harris County. IMHO But continue on with your line of thinking. Belicheck/Ryans etc... may disagree with you too.

 

[Playoffs]

Just now...

610AM:

What's your comments on reports that Texans will be changing the turf/pallates?​

Egdorf:

I told you guys that this is what would happen in the Fall. It's big plus for the case, it's an admission of what we all know... this is part of why I wanted to depose Coach O'Brien... because he knows that turf was trash and needed to be addessed... so let's go ahead and resolve this case, take care of the turf and Mr. Hartmann and have a better football team on a better playing surface.​

So the only source was either Meltser/Pendergast because Egdorf only predicted that the Texans would make a change. And their source may actually be Egdorf. So Patrick needs a different source or this could just be a bunch of tail-chasing at this point.

Regardless of all of that, I still think they'll be changing. Just a hunch.

 

[infantrycak]

Wrong, I want the Texans to win the Hartmann lawsuit because if the Texans/McNair's lose then I can count on my season ticket prices being raised. The field does reflect poorly on both the Texans/Harris County. IMHO But continue on with your line of thinking. Belicheck/Ryans etc... may disagree with you too.

Cool so your pocketbook trumps what you claim to think is right. Yeah buddy, you're an ideal juror.

 

[thunderkyss]

I'm not a lawyer, but I would think the percentage of those who got hurt at Reliant vs those that did not would be enough to alleviate the blame on the turf.

But whatever. As soon as they install the field turf, pull it out, put it back in, take it back out... we'll have something else to obsess about & vilify Bob for.


Still.... the Super Bowl will still want their grass won't they?

 

[steelbtexan]

Cool so your pocketbook trumps what you claim to think is right. Yeah buddy, you're an ideal juror.

Thanks

Yes I would because if the Texans/Harris county were proven to be in the wrong I would vote against the Texans. I would want them to be exonerated because of my pocketbook. So yes, I not only could be fair and unbiased, I would be the perfect juror because I can smell BS from a mile away.

 

[Double Barrel]

You're known for your flexability and the ability to change your mind?

We will see about the Hartmann case.

Wrong, I want the Texans to win the Hartmann lawsuit because if the Texans/McNair's lose then I can count on my season ticket prices being raised. The field does reflect poorly on both the Texans/Harris County. IMHO But continue on with your line of thinking. Belicheck/Ryans etc... may disagree with you too.

I didn't realize that you were a season ticket holder, especially since you always advocate forcing change on the franchise as a fan by 'voting' with your pocketbook.

 

[Goatcheese]

I've yet to see any meaningful evidence that Reliant's field is hazardous compared to other playing surfaces.

I've played on a lot of natural grass in all kinds of weather and nothing I've seen about our field comes across as dangerous compared to playing in mud where you sink 2 inches deep into the ground while fighting in the trenches or cold weather where one step is rock hard frozen and the next is mush.

This seems like another Texan's Talk myth like Kubiak and Wade's systems are outdated and don't work anymore. It gets repeated so often that people just start accepting it despite all evidence to the contrary.

 

[JB]

I've yet to see any meaningful evidence that Reliant's field is hazardous compared to other playing surfaces.

I've played on a lot of natural grass in all kinds of weather and nothing I've seen about our field comes across as dangerous compared to playing in mud where you sink 2 inches deep into the ground while fighting in the trenches or cold weather where one step is rock hard frozen and the next is mush.

This seems like another Texan's Talk myth like Kubiak and Wade's systems are outdated and don't work anymore. It gets repeated so often that people just start accepting it despite all evidence to the contrary.

Bingo

 

[paycheck71]

I've yet to see any meaningful evidence that Reliant's field is hazardous compared to other playing surfaces.

I've played on a lot of natural grass in all kinds of weather and nothing I've seen about our field comes across as dangerous compared to playing in mud where you sink 2 inches deep into the ground while fighting in the trenches or cold weather where one step is rock hard frozen and the next is mush.

This seems like another Texan's Talk myth like Kubiak and Wade's systems are outdated and don't work anymore. It gets repeated so often that people just start accepting it despite all evidence to the contrary.

Nailed it. Repped.

All the criticism boils down to "It looks like sh!t! on TV" and "more than one player got injured on it"

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

A field of aluminum nails would be the ideal solution for NRG. It would afford:

*Minimal initial financial outlay
*Uniformity of field
*Minimal maintenance
*No need for sunlight
*Minimal signs of wear over the life time of the stadium
*Excellent traction
*Unaffected by weather
*Easy single application of permanent field markings
*Single type of footwear
*Easy take up or cover of field for entertaining other event venues


The only small downside I could envision is that there would be need for throwback uniforms of the nail-proof variety.

............Although, if it were chosen to keep players in their present uniforms, it would merely be a matter of simply hosing off of any body fluids deposited on the field.

 

[ObsiWan]

oh great... now the damned Colts will be bitchin' about deflated balls every damned play
:mariopalm:

 

[Norg]

It's not if but when it happens again then what will, u, have to say

 

[JB]

It's not if but when it happens again then what will, u, have to say

I'm not sure what you said, but for some reason I'm comforted?

 

[Texan_Bill]

MEH!!! The smell of natural grass on Sunday (typically) at Noon smells good to me! That's football! That's something we never had at the "Dome" (Well, there was grass but it was before I was born).

I give a damn about the rats ass what Bill Belicheat says. I give a damn about the rat's ass what players from other teams say about the playing surface at Reliant.... In 13 seasons, how many Texans players tore up knees or ankles because of the turf?? I'm sure there may have been a couple along the way, here or there BUT how many after 130 games??

I'm thinking....... NOT MANY!

 

[False Start]

Well I hope its that nice looking turf. The crap the use in New Orleans is just awful/weird looking to me.

I like what the Colts have it looks petty real, and has a nice color.

This is the Giants/Jets field, it looks petty clean too.

This is a link to an article called, "NFL PLAYERS RANK FIELDTURF AS BEST ARTIFICIAL SURFACE"

They rank their favorite field turf surfaces of the NFL stadiums.



Oh, and could we please bring back the blue end zones, and possibly red on that certain occasion. If they could just do that, I would be a happy man.

 

[Playoffs]

This is a link to an article called, "NFL PLAYERS RANK FIELDTURF AS BEST ARTIFICIAL SURFACE"

The survey: http://www.stma.org/sites/stma/files/pdfs/2010_NFL_Survey.pdf

 

[infantrycak]

The survey: http://www.stma.org/sites/stma/files/pdfs/2010_NFL_Survey.pdf

There should be a 2012 survey but I haven't been able to find it.

But while we're looking at it, check out even the 1st question. 82.4% of players say more injuries on artificial AND the Texans were 90.9% that there were more on artificial.

 

[Playoffs]

There should be a 2012 survey but I haven't been able to find it.

But while we're looking at it, check out even the 1st question. 82.4% of players say more injuries on artificial AND the Texans were 90.9% that there were more on artificial.

Could the "2012" refer to this?...

Still, players overwhelmingly prefer natural grass. In the last survey performed by the NFLPA, in 2010, 69.4 percent of NFL players said they preferred natural grass to any form of synthetic surface. In a survey released by the NFL in 2012 and measuring games played from 2000 to ’09, knee and ankle sprains were shown to be 22 percent more common on FieldTurf than on grass and ACL sprains 67 percent more common. (McNitt, however, points out that lower-extremity injuries are not so simply assigned to the playing surface. “It’s the surface and the shoe,” says McNitt. “Footwear companies are making much, much more aggressive shoes.” On occasion the shoe will stick, and the knee or ankle or hip will move, often with catastrophic results).

Interesting cutaway shot of field turf from above link...

[IMGwidthsize=600]https://simmqb.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/turf-field-turf-closeup.jpg[/IMG]
FieldTurf and similar next-gen surfaces employ rubber pellets, sand and other materials
to soften the field and make its response more grass-like. (Pascale Simard/Bloomberg News)

 

[infantrycak]

Could the "2012" refer to this?...

No there is supposed to be a survey every 2 years just like that 2010 one. There should be a 2014 survey coming out as well.

Interesting cutaway shot of field turf from above link...

And that illustrates the high school difference discussed above - what the Texans have is rolled out and doesn't have all that underlayment.

And now looking at that picture it looks like we are back to square one because it will either have to be in trays or stay for the whole season. And if it's going to stay for the whole season then they can do that with grass and grow lamps and given player preference it would be stupid to go FieldTurf.

 

[False Start]

Blue end zones!

 

[thunderkyss]

There should be a 2012 survey but I haven't been able to find it.

But while we're looking at it, check out even the 1st question. 82.4% of players say more injuries on artificial AND the Texans were 90.9% that there were more on artificial.

More importantly, look at the "How do you rate your Homefield" question. 71% of the Texans said it was good or excellent. But 21 other teams had a higher percentage of players vote their home field as excellent. Eleven other teams had a higher percentage of players who voted their home field as good. Twenty-Eight teams had a lower percentage of players vote their home field was poor, compared to the Texans.

So while they may prefer grass, they may not consider NRG's field like a normal grass field.

Then again, the very next slide shows that Houston's is ranked the 7th best grass field out of 18.

 

[Marshall]

The survey: http://www.stma.org/sites/stma/files/pdfs/2010_NFL_Survey.pdf

The survey is only good when comparing artificial turf. I'd like to see how NRG field ranks among all surfaces including both natural and artificial turfs and see where it ranks.