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Nick Caserio - New GM

For what it's worth, I looked at a couple of lists of biggest trades in NFL history and added a couple of the more recent big names to this list. These are the guys traded before the draft: Joe Montana (err, must not have been as big a hero to his city as JJ), Jerome Bettis, Champ Baily/Clinton Portis, Randy Moss (vikings to oakland), Moss (oakland to NE), Matt Cassel, Marshall Faulk, Fran Tarkenton, Terrell Owens, Steve Young, Brandon Marshall, Jay Cutler, Donovan McNabb, Drew Bledsoe, Stafford/Goff

And these are the guys traded after the draft: Herschel Walker, Erick Dickerson, Khalil Mack, Jalen Ramsey

Not sure if there's anything definitive that can be gleaned from this list as far as if you'll get more or less for a player by waiting until after the draft, but it certainly seems like most of the big trades in NFL history happen prior to the draft. My take is that it's because teams want an immediate return in the draft year the player is being traded and they also want to know where that pick is going to be in the round. I mentioned earlier, that a top 3 pick in the 1st is the equivalent to (4) 1sts at the end of the round. Saying we need to get (4) 1sts for Watson doesn't mean much without knowing where those picks are in the 1st.
 
top 3 picks only really matter when you're trying to land a percieved franchise qb or LT. beyond that, 1st round talent is 1st round talent & studs at every other position have been found up and down the order. & since we need so much to rebuild this roster, it really doesn't matter where those 1st's are at this point. Plus we already have a franchise LT & i'm not sure it would be smart to try to land that franchise qb just yet. There'd be pressure for that kid to start right away & with this roster.....no bueno for his development. We need to be strategic in how we approach the next guy we put under center here.
 
Max said:
Which in all likelihood would be our situation if we're trading Watson, right?
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We'd need a qb yes, but there'd be unfair pressure for that kid to start & with our roster right now..not a good move. What we learned from the David Carr situation should be that you can ruin guys before they even get going. Hell, what last year should've told us is that even with a franchise guy, you're not home free. Further, Lawrence is the only guy truly regarded as a franchise changing qb ready to start out the gate. Wilson, Fields and Lance are not & that's who we'd be picking from. & since we have more immediate pressing needs especially on the defensive side, you would HAVE to consider whether the best defensive guy in this draft..someone who, if selected would be an IMMEDIATE contributor, is worth that #3 pick...& in this draft, i don't think he is.....whoever that is.
 
IDEXAN said:
Ignatius of Loyola. Dang DB you are laying some heavy stuff on us this Friday afternoon. I like it !
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Thanks, man. Found that quote recently and just liked it. :thumbup

powda said:
So dB is catholic.
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lol Half my family would so love it, but yeah...no (not that there is anything wrong with that hehe).

For some reason, my mind has always liked pithy quotes, regardless of the sources. Especially ones about stupidity. I've got a database of at least 50 of them. It might be time to use them often when I talk about Texans ownership. :D

Mr teX said:
the only question is whether what was said or done "to" him is enough to warrant his current actions. It'd have to be something very egregious for him to be dead set on a trade 3 months after he signed a mega extension. Anything short of that, i'll keep the stance i have on him. That to me narrows the "offense" to something racial or something having to do with family. But like i said, it would have to be something egregious for him a: to not have spoken about it or the COMPLETE story leak to anyone & b: for the texans to not have put out a statement addressing the same thing. We have the "mom" story, but for me, i'd have to hear both sides of that b/c what has been leaked, there seems to be something left out.
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Yeah, that's the million dollar question right there. If we ever find out, my gut tells me that it will most likely not justify his position and the signs were clearly there before September 2020 when he signed that extension.

I think all of this is ego-driven by both sides at this point. Ego of the star player, ego of the shark agent, ego of the silver-spoon owner, and collective egos of the media.

Mr teX said:
top 3 picks only really matter when you're trying to land a percieved franchise qb or LT. beyond that, 1st round talent is 1st round talent & studs at every other position have been found up and down the order. & since we need so much to rebuild this roster, it really doesn't matter where those 1st's are at this point. Plus we already have a franchise LT & i'm not sure it would be smart to try to land that franchise qb just yet. There'd be pressure for that kid to start right away & with this roster.....no bueno for his development. We need to be strategic in how we approach the next guy we put under center here.
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If they go this route - using a first round pick on a QB - I hope they learned something from the early years of this franchise and sit his butt while they develop him and upgrade the o-line.

Something tells me, though, that those lessons are lost. Maybe Caserio is the wildcard and sees it differently.

I'd rather see those picks used to start building a great defense and solid, dependable o-line. Trying to replace Watson in this draft just seems futile when the rest of the team are JAGs.
 
maverick512000 said:
All NFL teams are run like a dictatorship, don’t believe me then ask why is Jimmy G not in NE.

Hopkins was a bad trade by a bad GM but it was hardly the first bad trade in the NFL or even he worst. One WR no matter how good was not going to get us anywhere. At best Hopkins would have gotten us a couple of more win right back to the middle of the road we were.

As far as Watson goes what exactly did the Texans do that cost us him? All they did was make him one of the highest paid players in history and try to hire a coach that he had a connection with and keep the OC he liked. So what exactly did they do to him that cost us him?
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You just don’t get it do you? My last response will be to answer your question, DeAndre Hopkins. That set of chain reaction and downward spiral of disengagement of key players who have control over their destiny more than ownership dictates.
 
Mr teX said:
We'd need a qb yes, but there'd be unfair pressure for that kid to start & with our roster right now..not a good move. What we learned from the David Carr situation should be that you can ruin guys before they even get going. Hell, what last year should've told us is that even with a franchise guy, you're not home free. Further, Lawrence is the only guy truly regarded as a franchise changing qb ready to start out the gate. Wilson, Fields and Lance are not & that's who we'd be picking from. & since we have more immediate pressing needs especially on the defensive side, you would HAVE to consider whether the best defensive guy in this draft is worth that #3 pick...& in this draft, i don't think he is.
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If there's someone that you feel strongly about and you're only going to get them in the top 3, then you have to do it. We're not going to ruin a qb behind this OLine with even average coaching. I'm with you if we're talking about the 15th pick. A number of us feel strong about Wilson -- and if it's me, I don't even trade Watson for the 3rd pick cuz I think Wilson will be gone. But no idea how NC is looking at things.
 
Double Barrel said:
Yeah, that's the million dollar question right there. If we ever find out, my gut tells me that it will most likely not justify his position and the signs were clearly there before September 2020 when he signed that extension.

I think all of this is ego-driven by both sides at this point. Ego of the star player, ego of the shark agent, ego of the silver-spoon owner, and collective egos of the media.
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I think its going to unfold EXACTLY like the Nuk Hopkins thing unfolded. Once he's safely away in a trade, He will go on 1 of these podcasts like Shannon Sharpe's "Club Shay Shay" or Rich Eisen's or even SI might tap him to follow up after the Nuk article. They'll ask him about Easterby, He'll say some less than flattering things & give his "side" which will in all likelihood be biased & the media firestorm will rage on for a few more months afterwards. It'll be ironic b/c for however long this lasts, he will have be largely quiet & not saying nothing...................... but as soon as he gets away, he'll want to "tell all".....

That's usually how this crap plays out.
 
Mr teX said:
dont understand the repeated calls for him to be traded quickly. His value won’t decrease..hell If Tua shits the bed next year, that might make Miami even more desperate to give up the farm for him.
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I don't want us to trade him at all, I'd much rather mend the relationship, but assuming that cannot be done I think it makes sense to trade him soon.

A 2022 1st is generally accepted to be equivalent to a 2021 2nd. Therefore by waiting a year his Net Present Value drops 1 round in value per pick. Additionally, MIA can offer more this year than next in real terms as they have 2 1st round picks which they can offer right now. Wait a year and they're gone.

We get our full slate in 2022 regardless.
 
FireBOB said:
I don't want us to trade him at all, I'd much rather mend the relationship, but assuming that cannot be done I think it makes sense to trade him soon.

A 2022 1st is generally accepted to be equivalent to a 2021 2nd. Therefore by waiting a year his Net Present Value drops 1 round in value per pick. Additionally, MIA can offer more this year than next in real terms as they have 2 1st round picks which they can offer right now. Wait a year and they're gone.

We get our full slate in 2022 regardless.
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This is all theorectical & not really based on anything other than what some people have hypothesized about the value picks....like GAAP in the accounting field, something generally accepted, not rule or law or even data driven. It's also as of right now..at this very moment. So what Miami has now maybe someone else has next year...then they are the team. The only reason Miami sits in the position they do is b/c we made a trade with them thinking that the pick would be lower than it is...IOW's we thought we'd be good.....which goes to show you, you can't predict what the future will hold.. (duh, lol).

All of that being said NONE of it has any bearing on DW4's value. that is something completely separate.

Furthermore Just b/c its there & MIA has those picks, doesn't mean you get them. They can be like, "We've got a young Tua, & we're talking with Seattle about Wilson & we can take our pick of either Zach Wilson, Justin Fields or Lance just staying put. yeah, he wants to come here, but we don't need him. So take what we're offering or we'll take our chances with our other options.." Then what?
 
Just hope that he can really be a great GM. And really hope that he can talk with Watson as slim as that is. Good luck.
 
Max said:
If there's someone that you feel strongly about and you're only going to get them in the top 3, then you have to do it. We're not going to ruin a qb behind this OLine with even average coaching. I'm with you if we're talking about the 15th pick. A number of us feel strong about Wilson -- and if it's me, I don't even trade Watson for the 3rd pick cuz I think Wilson will be gone. But no idea how NC is looking at things.
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That’s why we need to trade with the Jets. That #2 pick either gives us our next franchise QB/face of the team or multiple picks by teams bidding against each other for Wilson. It’s the best case scenario IMO.

either of those with Q Williams and their 23 and next tears first would Put this team on the right track.

Hopefully poor coaching doesn’t ruin them.
 
Mr teX said:
This is all theorectical & not really based on anything other than what some people have hypothesized about the value picks....like GAAP in the accounting field, something generally accepted, not rule or law or even data driven. It's also as of right now..at this very moment. So what Miami has now maybe someone else has next year...then they are the team. The only reason Miami sits in the position they do is b/c we made a trade with them thinking that the pick would be lower than it is...IOW's we thought we'd be good.....which goes to show you, you can't predict what the future will hold.. (duh, lol).

All of that being said NONE of it has any bearing on DW4's value. that is something completely separate.

Furthermore Just b/c its there & MIA has those picks, doesn't mean you get them. They can be like, "We've got a young Tua, & we're talking with Seattle about Wilson & we can take our pick of either Zach Wilson, Justin Fields or Lance just staying put. yeah, he wants to come here, but we don't need him. So take what we're offering or we'll take our chances with our other options.." Then what?
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Move on to the Jets or Bears or Panthers or 49ers or the Raiders. Your diminishing his worth with that example. He is widely considered one of the best YOUNG QBs in the NFL and a top 5 QB. When the for-sale sign goes up teams will be tripping over each other to get him. when is the last time any of the teams I just named had a QB as good as Watson? Teams go 10 - 15 years without a QB as good as Watson. As a Texans fan you know this to be true.
 
mussop said:
That’s why we need to trade with the Jets. That #2 pick either gives us our next franchise QB/face of the team or multiple picks by teams bidding against each other for Wilson. It’s the best case scenario IMO.

either of those with Q Williams and their 23 and next tears first would Put this team on the right track.

Hopefully poor coaching doesn’t ruin them.
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I'm not going to be surprised if the Jets aren't willing to pay what it's going to take to get Watson. I wouldn't if I was them. My guess is that we end up trading for a veteran qb that they convince themselves (in Cal's out of touch way) will bring some excitement to the fan base. I'm braced for Garoppolo.
 
Max said:
I'm not going to be surprised if the Jets aren't willing to pay what it's going to take to get Watson. I wouldn't if I was them. My guess is that we end up trading for a veteran qb that they convince themselves (in Cal's out of touch way) will bring some excitement to the fan base. I'm braced for Garoppolo.
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Dam you for even saying that. I by no means have faith in this organization but I have to believe Casserio is better than that.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Max
beerlover said:
You just don’t get it do you? My last response will be to answer your question, DeAndre Hopkins. That set of chain reaction and downward spiral of disengagement of key players who have control over their destiny more than ownership dictates.
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There is nothing really to get, you are connecting dots that aren’t there and have nothing to do with each other. You’re blaming the Texans for BS reasons. Watson signed his contract and had his emotional moment AFTER they traded Hopkins so clearly that didn’t bother him to bad.

In fact seems he has been the most upset by either hiring Caserio, not his business, or firing OB which if he is mad they fired OB then yeah there is nothing to say to that.
 
IDEXAN said:
What I'm trying to say is it's time for the deliberation to end and for some serious an considered action to happen. Does that need to be done right now ? No, not even by the end of next week or the end of this month for that matter. But there is most certainly a drop-dead date, which is April 29 when this years Draft begins. After the Draft it becomes Deafcon 1 !
But well before the Draft is the free agency period for 2021 which begins next week.
Right now is the optimal time to begin dealing DW4, before free agency and the Draft when the maximum opportunities will be available before potential trading partners can begin to make other arrangements for the 2021 regular season, and work towards solidifying their rosters.
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I don’t disagree with you altogether but two important things. One as you said April 29th is the draft but that basically two months away, it’s like any other auction as time runs out people pay more and get more desperate.

Next I don’t really want them to be a player in F/A unless they get a few absolute steals which won’t be in the first few weeks. The first few weeks of F/A are when players are asking for stupid amounts and teams are paying stupid amounts. It’s not like we are in a championship window so no need to sell the farm for that one key player.

Look I get it we are all tired of the drama and are ready to move on but it’s like selling a house. You can sell to that house flipper who is completely low balling you but they have cash in hand right now or you can hold out and wait for that buyer that will meet your price but it might take awhile. It really depends on how desperate to sell you are and right now the Texans aren’t nor should they be desperate to sell.
 
mussop said:
Move on to the Jets or Bears or Panthers or 49ers or the Raiders. Your diminishing his worth with that example. He is widely considered one of the best YOUNG QBs in the NFL and a top 5 QB. When the for-sale sign goes up teams will be tripping over each other to get him. when is the last time any of the teams I just named had a QB as good as Watson? Teams go 10 - 15 years without a QB as good as Watson. As a Texans fan you know this to be true.
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His worth to the Dolphins...not to any of the other qb needy teams who don't have the set up the dolphins do.
 
Max said:
For what it's worth, I looked at a couple of lists of biggest trades in NFL history and added a couple of the more recent big names to this list. These are the guys traded before the draft: Joe Montana (err, must not have been as big a hero to his city as JJ), Jerome Bettis, Champ Baily/Clinton Portis, Randy Moss (vikings to oakland), Moss (oakland to NE), Matt Cassel, Marshall Faulk, Fran Tarkenton, Terrell Owens, Steve Young, Brandon Marshall, Jay Cutler, Donovan McNabb, Drew Bledsoe, Stafford/Goff

And these are the guys traded after the draft: Herschel Walker, Erick Dickerson, Khalil Mack, Jalen Ramsey

Not sure if there's anything definitive that can be gleaned from this list as far as if you'll get more or less for a player by waiting until after the draft, but it certainly seems like most of the big trades in NFL history happen prior to the draft. My take is that it's because teams want an immediate return in the draft year the player is being traded and they also want to know where that pick is going to be in the round. I mentioned earlier, that a top 3 pick in the 1st is the equivalent to (4) 1sts at the end of the round. Saying we need to get (4) 1sts for Watson doesn't mean much without knowing where those picks are in the 1st.
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Elway was traded after the draft.
 
maverick512000 said:
I don’t disagree with you altogether but two important things. One as you said April 29th is the draft but that basically two months away, it’s like any other auction as time runs out people pay more and get more desperate.

Next I don’t really want them to be a player in F/A unless they get a few absolute steals which won’t be in the first few weeks. The first few weeks of F/A are when players are asking for stupid amounts and teams are paying stupid amounts. It’s not like we are in a championship window so no need to sell the farm for that one key player.

Look I get it we are all tired of the drama and are ready to move on but it’s like selling a house. You can sell to that house flipper who is completely low balling you but they have cash in hand right now or you can hold out and wait for that buyer that will meet your price but it might take awhile. It really depends on how desperate to sell you are and right now the Texans aren’t nor should they be desperate to sell.
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Mav I'm not talking about the Texans activity in FA, but rather other teams which might be bidders for DW4.
In other words teams which potentially might be a landing spot for DW4 might make their own moves in FA with third parties
which could preclude them from being teams that might potentially trade for DW4.
You speak of an auction which is what we want for DW4, i.e. interested teams bid up the price for Watson as they compete with each other for him. And clearly the larger number of bidders potentially the higher the haul for Watson.
Janice & Cal can't just lounge around and deliberate at their own slow pace and wait for some kind of sign from the heavens if they want to secure the most optimal deal for DW4.
Comprendo ?
 
IDEXAN said:
Mav I'm not talking about the Texans activity in FA, but rather other teams which might be bidders for DW4.
In other words teams which potentially might be a landing spot for DW4 might make their own moves in FA with third parties
which could preclude them from being teams that might potentially trade for DW4.
You speak of an auction which is what we want for DW4, i.e. interested teams bid up the price for Watson as they compete with each other for him. And clearly the larger number of bidders potentially the higher the haul for Watson.
Janice & Cal can't just lounge around and deliberate at their own slow pace and wait for some kind of sign from the heavens if they want to secure the most optimal deal for DW4.
Comprendo ?
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Yes they can, in reality there are only two teams that can really be players this because not only do they have the draft capital but they have the picks high enough. For example it wouldn’t matter if Buccs offered three 1st and Jets only offered 2. The two from the Jets are worth more than the three from the Buccs.

For that same reason Jets and Miami can afford to sit and wait because even if they don’t get Watson they still have the 2nd they can draft with and for Miami Tua. They don’t have to rush either so. What you see with the teams that sign a QB now are the ones that know they can’t come up with the capital to be players in this auction.

Even those teams signing QBs is driving up the price. Stafford being traded for two 1sts means that any team hat offers that you can start laughing and ask them if they meant to call Detroit or LA instead.

Again the only real way the Texans lose in this whole thing is to rush and trade Watson away for peanuts.
 
At this point, after a few small moves by the Texans FO during this offseason I'm still neutral on Nick Caserio. He's signed a ho-hum center. He released Duke and kept David Johnson...I would have preferred it the other way around but I understand what he did and why it was done. The one transaction that resonated a little with me was cutting Nick Martin. His play never lived up to the contract nor the 2nd round pick that he cost the Texans.

Now I am making the assumption that these changes have been spearheaded by Nick Caserio and Nick alone. And even though NC was not my top choice for GM, and I have questioned the process by which he was hired, I'm certainly willing to have an open mind in regards to his job performance.

As for his dealings with Watson, he's pretty much in a no-win situation in regards to the disgruntled (or maybe opportunistic?) quarterback. Anything short of total and complete reconciliation will be viewed as a loss for NC because I just don't believe any team will be able to deliver a player of Watson's caliber at any position. Maybe in time a prospect or combination of prospects the Texans receive in a trade involving Watson will prove out the Texans "winners" of the trade but, in the immediate aftermath of a Watson trade the Texans (and Nick will be singled out in this) will be viewed by the NFL community as big losers. I understand that there are some here that have never liked Watson and/or have continuously tried to downgrade his skills and abilities that will disagree with my last statement, but rest assured people that have played in the NFL, have coached in the NFL, have followed and reported on the NFL for decades will say Watson is a rare talent that under "normal" circumstances should never ever be traded, not for anything.
 
maverick512000 said:
Yes they can, in reality there are only two teams that can really be players this because not only do they have the draft capital but they have the picks high enough. For example it wouldn’t matter if Buccs offered three 1st and Jets only offered 2. The two from the Jets are worth more than the three from the Buccs.

For that same reason Jets and Miami can afford to sit and wait because even if they don’t get Watson they still have the 2nd they can draft with and for Miami Tua. They don’t have to rush either so. What you see with the teams that sign a QB now are the ones that know they can’t come up with the capital to be players in this auction.

Even those teams signing QBs is driving up the price. Stafford being traded for two 1sts means that any team hat offers that you can start laughing and ask them if they meant to call Detroit or LA instead.

Again the only real way the Texans lose in this whole thing is to rush and trade Watson away for peanuts.
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Yes sir you are of course correct in saying the Jets & Miami have the most in high draft picks to offer but other teams possibly interested would have something else we value very highly: young, even elite players under contract like for example Nick Bosa and Christian McCaffery with the 49ers & Panthers respectively.
And I'm pretty confidant in saying the Jets & Phins both would like Watson more than any other QB they could Draft or sign in FA.
Now whether or not either would make us a godfather offer, I dunno ?
 
IDEXAN said:
Yes sir you are of course correct in saying the Jets & Miami have the most in high draft picks to offer but other teams possibly interested would have something else we value very highly: young, even elite players under contract like for example Nick Bosa and Christian McCaffery with the 49ers & Panthers respectively.
And I'm pretty confidant in saying the Jets & Phins both would like Watson more than any other QB they could Draft or sign in FA.
Now whether or not either would make us a godfather offer, I dunno ?
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I get your point but me personally I don’t want players as much as I want picks. Trouble with getting players, even elite ones, is that we would have to pay them sooner than ones we draft and I’m not seeing the cap situation get better league wide for a couple of years and ours was bad to begin with.

A player on a rookie contract with a few years ok maybe but I still would prefer the picks. Take McCaffery for example how much impact will he really have if we don’t have a line that can block for him or a QB to get yardage as well.

Like I said my concern is that by the time we got the rest of the team ready then those players contracts or up and either we pay through the nose or they walk and then we just lost a big part of what we traded Watson for.
 
Max said:
I'm not going to be surprised if the Jets aren't willing to pay what it's going to take to get Watson. I wouldn't if I was them. My guess is that we end up trading for a veteran qb that they convince themselves (in Cal's out of touch way) will bring some excitement to the fan base. I'm braced for Garoppolo.
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Caserio isn’t going to end up with a broke down vet QB like Jimmy in all of this.
If they trade Watson, I think Caserio will get a franchise QB or a projected franchise QB in the draft.
Some of us are continually downplaying Watsons value and Caserio’s pedigree.
The more difficult road would be getting a current franchise QB such as Rogers or Wilson so I think he will trade Watson to either NYJ or MIA.
 
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maverick512000 said:
I get your point but me personally I don’t want players as much as I want picks. Trouble with getting players, even elite ones, is that we would have to pay them sooner than ones we draft and I’m not seeing the cap situation get better league wide for a couple of years and ours was bad to begin with.

A player on a rookie contract with a few years ok maybe but I still would prefer the picks. Take McCaffery for example how much impact will he really have if we don’t have a line that can block for him or a QB to get yardage as well.

Like I said my concern is that by the time we got the rest of the team ready then those players contracts or up and either we pay through the nose or they walk and then we just lost a big part of what we traded Watson for.
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Exactly. In a rebuild elite players are a negative.
They were traded. It wasn’t up to them. They are extremely expensive and re signing them are not in the FO’s plans. Cause they are rebuilding.
They represent a pick that HOU could have had instead.

Someone suggested Chubb and Fant in a trade. Both would cost enormous amounts of cap space and money in the next 2 years on a rebuilding franchise. It makes zero sense. Also, both have been just meh in their careers up to this point. What’s motivating these players? Money? Cause they aren’t going anywhere with HOU. Cause HOU is rebuilding.
A lot of the ideology of trading Watson is caught up in getting “good value” or getting big names in return so from a fan perspective we can say, “Yeah, we traded him but look at the shiny new toy(s) we received in return!!!”
And that toy bolts the second they can for FA cause HOU is in a rebuild and it makes no sense to offer him the farm to stay.
 
Jack Burton said:
Caserio isn’t going to end up with a broke down vet QB like Jimmy in all of this.
If they trade Watson, I think Caserio will get a franchise QB or a projected franchise QB in the draft.
Some of us are continually downplaying Watsons value and Caserio’s pedigree.
The more difficult road would be getting a current franchise QB suck as Rogers or Wilson so I honk he will trade Watson to either NYJ or MIA.

I also wo
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Jack Burton, from Big Trouble in Little China?
 
IDEXAN said:
Knowing many devoutly religious people like I do, like most of us probably do, I've got a bad feeling that Cal and Easterby are sitting around stewing and praying about this situation when what's called for is fast and decisive action, you know strike when the iron is hot as the saying goes.
At this point why would they even want DW4 on the team, he's become such a malcontent who's suppose to be the leader and face of the franchise.
C'mon guys put those big boys pants on because there's a big opportunity with the Jets or the 'Phins out there to move on and begin anew.
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Those draft assets from NYJ or Miami are very appealing .... but Watson suiting up as the Texans QB is really the best outcome.
The other issue is the principal of it all - a player signing a massive contract and then leaving that team high and dry with a massive cap hit to boot. There's 30 other owners who are going to be PISSED OFF about that.
Then there's the issue of players dictating where they play , that's bad for the league. Players building "super teams" like the NBA .... that's bad for the league when the NFL has the greatest parity of any major sports league - every year there's significant turnover in playoff teams and the smaller markets have no problem competing with even the largest of markets.

That crap all goes away when players start dictating where they play - particularly superstars and guys on mega contracts.

Then there's the issue with cap manipulation .... that can't be understated and it could lead to a whole lot of crazy stuff like tanking teams selling their cap space for draft compensation.

Yeah , if all you are worried about is the Texans righting the ship , taking one of those deals makes sense .... but there's so much more to this situation.

I'm sure there is some pressure from the other owners not to give in.
 
Lucky said:
That's the problem with a dysfunctional organization. When they're not making impulsive, irrational moves (trading Hopkins), they're mired with indecisiveness. And here's the real problem: The owner doesn't want to trade Watson. No, not Kyle. I'm talking about the actual owner, Janice McNair. She wants her son and his high priced sidekicks (Easterby, Caserio, and Culley) to fix this.

Of course, they can't fix this. They caused this. But, they can't tell her that. So the stewing & praying will continue on Kirby.
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How did they cause this?

Only 1 person caused this Deshaun Watson.
 
beerlover said:
Name one move of any consequence, that has been a good move since Easterby took reigns in 2019?

Just look at the Texans track record.

Far as indecisiveness, that’s top down. They don’t know what the hell they’re doing. First coaching vacancy last coaching hire. The decision to let Bob play GM. They never seemed interested in searching for a GM not named Caserio.

Now losing franchise QB. That’s all on them.
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They wanted Caserio all along. They got him. They paid him top 3 GM $$$$. DW4 didn't want Caserio as the GM and now he wants out. That's why we're here. Cant blame anybody but DW4 for this.

They were decisive in their GM decision and the HC decision couldn't be made until after their GM decision was made.

What most fans dont like is Caserio/Easterby have Patriot ties.
 
steelbtexan said:
How did they cause this?

Only 1 person caused this Deshaun Watson.
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Some fans just hate players. More puzzling, they relate more to a thumb sucking, silver spooned, man child like Kyle. I don't get it. "The Player" earned his way into the NFL with hard work and success. Kyle "Tommy Boy" McNair was gifted an NFL team, and never prepared for it.

Some things I'll never understand.
 
Lucky said:
Some fans just hate players. More puzzling, they relate more to a thumb sucking, silver spooned, man child like Kyle. I don't get it. "The Player" earned his way into the NFL with hard work and success. Kyle "Tommy Boy" McNair was gifted an NFL team, and never prepared for it.

Some things I'll never understand.
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Agreed

But this still doesn't mean that Deshaun Watson and only Deshaun Watson is responsible for this mess.
 
From the post Hopkins trade "town hall" meeting:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1246175567524888576
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O'Brien:

“I would say the deal with Arizona was a deal that we felt was in the best interest of our team,”

"What is in the best interest of the team? Capital T. Capital E. Capital A. Capital M. Any decision that’s made is made with the team in mind.”

O'Brien. Caserio. Culley. Some things never change. Why is it when they talk about "the team" and it's best interests, it's never about the fans and their interests? Like, ya know, winning?
 
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Lucky said:
Some fans just hate players. More puzzling, they relate more to a thumb sucking, silver spooned, man child like Kyle. I don't get it. "The Player" earned his way into the NFL with hard work and success. Kyle "Tommy Boy" McNair was gifted an NFL team, and never prepared for it.

Some things I'll never understand.
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And some people seem to hate the team they are a fan of and would rather see a player succeed over the team. They act like we regular people can relate to players over owners but it’s millionaires vs billionaires and care anything about us fans beyond our pocket books and the players don’t even care about that.
 
Lucky said:
From the post Hopkins trade "town hall" meeting:


O'Brien:

“I would say the deal with Arizona was a deal that we felt was in the best interest of our team,”

"What is i the best interest of the team? Capital T. Capital E. Capital A. Capital M. Any decision that’s made is made with the team in mind.”

O'Brien. Caserio. Culley. Some things never change. Why is it when they talk about "the team" and it's best interests, it's never about the fans and their interests? Like, ya know, winning?
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Well clearly Watson doesn’t care about the fans or winning because he wants to go elsewhere, have Texans pay a big chunk of his contract and he doesn’t want the team he’s traded to to have to give up much for him so he can win a championship. Tell me again how players care more about the fans.
 
maverick512000 said:
And some people seem to hate the team they are a fan of and would rather see a player succeed over the team. They act like we regular people can relate to players over owners but it’s millionaires vs billionaires and care anything about us fans beyond our pocket books and the players don’t even care about that.
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For me, the players are more relatable than the owners. But I'll be the first to admit it, I have never fully adopted the Texans as "my team" and maybe I never will. I lived in Minnesota when the Houston Texans formed. I was able to see a handful of their games over the first 10 years. During that time, they by and large sucked. And now they suck again. Is that because of the players?

The Texans already traded one super star player because he supposedly wanted more money, and therefore out of Houston, but we all know that wasn't the real reason he was traded in an embarrassingly lopsided trade. They allowed another to walk away because he didn't want to be involved in a rebuild and they didn't, as far as I know, even attempt to restructure/retain his services. They traded Clowney for peanuts because they waited too long to make a decision on him, and the owner got in a spat (insulted) with their franchise left tackle which prompted him to want to be traded; which he was, again for cents on the dollar.

Why should I feel loyalty to a marketing company that has proved they don't know how to keep their own employees happy enough to want to hang around? And then when they realize they can't make them happy, they **** their pants and conduct a trade that makes the T.E.A.M worse?

Anyway, I won't be cheering for Watt and I won't be cheering for Watson if/when he leaves. But I'm also not going to pledge my allegiance to a poorly run franchise that doesn't give two shits about any of us or the people they employ (except for Jack Easterby).
 
banned1976 said:
me, the players are more relatable than the owners
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Can't really say I relate to either. But my sense of right & wrong says you don't take a $27M signing bonus then demand a trade 9 months later.

I was honestly wondering how the Texans were going to navigate this offseason, dealing with the salary cap & a limited draft to field a competitive team. Then out of nowhere, "some things never change." & the world is turned upside down.
 
thunderkyss said:
Can't really say I relate to either. But my sense of right & wrong says you don't take a $27M signing bonus then demand a trade 9 months later.

I was honestly wondering how the Texans were going to navigate this offseason, dealing with the salary cap & a limited draft to field a competitive team. Then out of nowhere, "some things never change." & the world is turned upside down.
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DW4 wanting to be traded is actually doing Caserio a favor.

Now Caerio will get the opportunity to fully rebuild the team correctly. He wouldn't have gotten the chance to do this without DW4 acting like a child.
 
steelbtexan said:
DW4 wanting to be traded is actually doing Caserio a favor.

Now Caerio will get the opportunity to fully rebuild the team correctly. He wouldn't have gotten the chance to do this without DW4 acting like a child.
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If it crashes, you will blame someone else. The quickest way to any rebuild is with a qb. You can rebuild a team quicker with a Watson vs an unknown. Watson being signed is a known cost that a team van work off of. You see how quickly they got cap space? Its more about hitting on picks and getting surprises later and value free agents.
 
leebigeztx said:
If it crashes, you will blame someone else. The quickest way to any rebuild is with a qb. You can rebuild a team quicker with a Watson vs an unknown. Watson being signed is a known cost that a team van work off of. You see how quickly they got cap space? Its more about hitting on picks and getting surprises later and value free agents.
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Disagree, history says build the team, then add your QB and you will have a 5-7 yr run at championships. Tell me how many QBs have won championships taking up as much of the cap as DW4 will be?

Fact they wasted DW4's rookie contract and the couple of yrs you get when the extension is signed.

BTW, if they screw up the rebuild you're darned right I will blame somebody. Cuck/Caserio
 
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steelbtexan said:
Disagree, history says build the team, then add your QB and you will have a 5-7 yr run at championships.
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So a team wins a Super Bowl with a QB on a rookie contract 3 times in 15 years, and that's "history"? This is getting old. Here's how to win a Super Bowl:

Phase 1 - Get QB
Phase 2 - ???
Phase 3 - Championship!

Phase 2 is the mystery. Phase 1 isn't.
 
Lucky said:
So a team wins a Super Bowl with a QB on a rookie contract 3 times in 15 years, and that's "history"? This is getting old. Here's how to win a Super Bowl:

Phase 1 - Get QB
Phase 2 - ???
Phase 3 - Championship!

Phase 2 is the mystery. Phase 1 isn't.
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I notice you didn't name a QB that's won a SB taking up the amount of cap that DW4 will be taking up in 2 yrs. Wonder why? Unless you think the Texans with DW4 are going to win the SB next yr the smart thing to do is move on.
 
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