That might be ok if we could get a Manning and win 12 or 20 division titles and a Superb Owl or two
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- Thread starter kingtexan
- Start date
That might be ok if we could get a Manning and win 12 or 20 division titles and a Superb Owl or two
Well... it's not rocket science. maximize cap space without being cheap. draft a QB in the first round. stay away from players who might be injured in the next three to five years. & sign players who are edgy enough get caught doing drugs, choke pregnant girlfriends/spouses & may be implicated in one or more homicides.
Would that make us Cleveland?
Texian
Hall of Fame
When you factor in a winning percentage of < .100% against teams with winning percentages of > .500% (which has pretty much been the case for the last 4 years) along with embarrassing playoff losses then suck becomes part of the equation.
When you remove Tex, Landry and Johnson from the discussion (that leaves Jerah) you also remove any discussion of rings.
You don't have to worry, I've been on record for quite sometime saying that O'Brien will be here through 2017. However 2018 might be his undoing and his exit visa based on the Texans being handicapped by 2016 FA contracts, 2017 new contracts and limited salary cap space makes it more difficult for them to improve and easier for them to take a step back.
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ChampionTexan
Hall of Fame
I'm curious, you wouldn't happen to know exactly how much below .100 they are over that time would you?
What are other teams winning percentage against teams with a winning percentage over .500?
And why the 4 year window? So you can include 2013 in your stats?
Texansphan
Football connoisseur
Not falling for it.
Does your evasion signify an inability to answer?
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
You either have a source or made the calculation already, either of which could easily be supplied. And it was your assertion.
Except I don't think he looked at any team but the Texans... doesn't fit his agenda
Texian
Hall of Fame
Actually I was to lazy to look it up so I just threw it out there, waiting for someone to brag on a .180 winning percentage. It would be rather easy to figure out. It's probably somewhere in the neighborhood of 1 win per season against 5-6 winning teams they played or closer to .200% which is still pretty abysmal. This is nothing new, this has been their M.O. for quite some time. The simple point is the Texans have a terrible record against winning teams.
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infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Texian
Hall of Fame
I've been following them pretty damn close for over 10 years, more of a close estimate than making stuff up but if you want to make stuff up have at it.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
In OB's first season, he went 2-6 against winning teams (25%), 2-4 (33%) his second season (including the playoffs), and 3-4 (43%) so far in his third. Overall, he's sitting at 7-14 (33%) against winning teams, improving a little bit each season (at least so far.)
I have no desire to sit down and do that calculation for every team/coach to see if that's good or bad.
I found this interesting just enough to take a four-team, three-year sample (including playoffs) of ... Indy, Dallas, Seattle, and NE. Four varying teams of relative interest with each the same coach the last three seasons.
Indy
'14 - 6-6 (.500)
'15 - 2-5 (.285)
'16 - 3-7 (.300)
tot - 11-18 (.379)
Dallas
'14 - 5-3 (.625)
'15 - 1-6 (.143)
'16 - 6-2 (.750)
tot - 12-11 (.521)
Seattle
'14 - 7-4 (.636)
'15 - 4-6 (.400)
'16 - 3-2 (.600)
tot - 14-12 (.538)
New England
'14 - 9-3 (.750)
'15 - 5-3 (.625)
'16 - 5-1 (.833)
tot - 19-7 (.730)
Conclusion: New England is truly awesome. And not like the silly use of the word, like when describing a hot dog, but that intense druid singing style of it, like "ahhhh, awwhhh, awwhhh, awwweesssommme". But we knew that already.
Also it's really hard to consistently beat winning teams in this league. But we really knew that too. So our record in this isn't really good, but it's better than Texian sorta hateguessed, it's better than Indy, and it's not good enough to hang in real contention yet. But like PN said, it's on an uptick. Let's cross our fingers Savage has the stuff.
Would a new coach draft a well as the current one who drafted six starters in his first Draft in 2014: Clowney, X-Man, Fido, Savage, Prosch, & Hal. The one bust was the chubby NT from Notre Dame - hey can't win them all. So looks like O'Brien & Smith did pretty well in their first NFL Draft together. This group of starters has led us to our second consecutive division title so this is clearly the most successful franchise in the division.
noxiousdog
Rookie
It could be worse. We could have drafted Bortles.
You also have to consider they had the first pick in every round, and had what 10 draft picks to work with?
I like that a 10 win season means something to O'b
We've already clinched the division & winning this week won't change our seeding or have any affect at all, other than knowing that they won 10 games. I like it. We may not have been as bad as that 2 win team would have suggested & we probably don't look like a 10 win team.
But as a fan, it feels better to say "we won 10 games." So it's got to feel better as a player & coach.
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Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
Pretty meaningless post since that didn't happen. Might as well wonder what would happen if Elvis played LB and John Lennon played safety. Oooh, I bet they would have given up all kinds of points and been the worst team in the league. Oh, but that is all make believe and the Texans are actually in the playoffs. Fun exercise.
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
Sorry, as a fan it feels much better to say we won some playoff games instead of a meaningless week 17 game. And I absolutely loathe the Titans and don't ever want them to win another game ever.
I don't like all the talk about going out there Sunday trying to win #10. It means nothing. Makes me feel like their priorities aren't in order, that they're not focused on the big picture. You play this game to win championships. To play for a championship you have to make the playoffs. They've done that. Way too much focus on a meaningless game.
It would be one thing if seeding were a factor or a win knocks a team out, moves another in or something like that. But it doesn't. Win, lose or tie, not one single thing changes for the Texans to go all out to win this game Sunday.
You want to win it, fine. Do it with Heath, Jones, Kamalu, Moore and Nelson and guys like that on the field, not McKinney, Joseph, Clowney, Mercilus and Bouye.
That said, the starting offense does need to be out there getting reps, IMO. Savage has 6 1/2 quarters of football under his belt, 9 1/2 quarters in his career. You thought Brock had little experience with his 8 games last year, Savage is even more inexperienced. He needs to be playing Sunday getting all the looks he can. The only offensive player I wouldn't suit up is Miller. He's been banged up all year. Give him a couple of weeks off, maybe he can heal up a little and have some fresh legs next week.
The regular season goal is accomplished and over. There's nothing else you can do to better your situation, there's nothing else you can do to worsen your situation. Well, other than losing Clowney or Mercilus or somebody like that trying to win a meaningless game. It's about the playoffs now. A meaningless week 17 game to get to 10 wins means nothing.
I don't really care if fans don't understand that, but it would bother me if coaches and players didn't understand it.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
He said he wants to win this game, and I believe that.
However, he never said WHO he was going to try to win this game WITH.
However, he never said WHO he was going to try to win this game WITH.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
You're talking out of both sides of your mouth here. You want to stick the offense out there, but not the defense? You can most definitely worsen your situation if Brown, Savage or some other major offensive weapon gets hurt & furthers hampers your offense's already inept ability to score pts. So if you're gonna go there, you may as well go with everyone.
Apart from that, you're just wrong...Going for the win with everyone who'll be playing the following week keeps those guys in sync. Seeing the offense put up a good amount of pts. or the defense dominate gives everyone on the team a boost & a better overall feeling going into the playoffs. I know you don't think that kinda stuff matters, but it does. We've seen it too many times where teams who sat guys or had a 1st round bye come out flat and lose or come dangerously close to losing against a team who's been playing for their season since like wk 15. Furthermore, at this point in the season, I don't know how much giving guys a week off helps them. I'm with you in sitting Miller, but not b/c I think that 1 extra week is gonna help him that much more, b/c I want to see more of Hunt Grimes and Ervin work with Savage.
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
The offense has been garbage all season. If Savage or Brown or anyone gets hurt, is it really going to matter much? And yes, the more live bullets for Savage the better.
The defense is why they're where they're at and they'll be why they go anywhere. Get those guys hurt and their chances go from slim to none.
So there, you're wrong.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Team game homie & although the offense has been the overall weaker side of the ball, they've still managed to rescue the defense a few times this season....both of those Colts games are losses if not for the offense..that last jags game...offense won that game. Lose any 1 of those games & we likely aren't in the playoffs.
furthermore the defense this season has played without:
Clowney 1 game
J-Jo 2 games
Demps 2-3 games
K-jack 1 game
Mercilus 1 game
Simon like 4-5 games
Buoye 1-2 games
Cushing 1-2 games
not to mention Watt & K-jo for the entire year.
& they've still managed to be pretty good b/c they have something the offense doesn't......a modicum of depth & flexibility.
The offense doesn't have that AT ALL. The o-line is held together with spit and duct tape, our 2 top backs are both banged up, our #2WR has been nursing a hammy, our #3WR is on IR, & our #4 WR has missed the last 3-4 weeks. Apart from that, who amongst us really wants to see Oz out there again if Savage gets hurt?
Yeah the offense hasn't been very good, but you obviously didn't watch last year's playoff game if you think it can't get worse for us on offense.
There's simply no way you can justify sending the offense out there & resting the defense.
The final game means nothing more than a final tune-up. Rust is real but not at the expense of excessive injury risk.
Send all the regular starters out to get reps and continue the usual gameweek/gameday rhythm. Pull 'em once that's been gained.
Treat it like a combination of the 2nd and 3rd preseason games. The result doesn't matter but the sharpening of the sword does.
Send all the regular starters out to get reps and continue the usual gameweek/gameday rhythm. Pull 'em once that's been gained.
Treat it like a combination of the 2nd and 3rd preseason games. The result doesn't matter but the sharpening of the sword does.
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
Not that I want to see Os again, but the team did win 7 games with him under center.
Savage has one NFL start. Will 4 more quarters before he starts his 1st playoff game make a difference? Unlikely maybe, but it still doesn't hurt to get the reps, see a little more, get a little more experience so that he's not absolutely overwhelmed when the 2nd season starts, which he still may be anyway. Ask any player and they'll tell you the playoffs are a different animal.
He's made one NFL start. I'd rather he get some more experience and make mistakes to learn from in a meaningless game than to do it in the playoffs.
So yes there is a way to justify it, you just disagree.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
I don't really disagree except with the part about sitting the defense and starting the offense....after the stinker the defense laid against Jax, they all need to play if all it does is help them to keep their edge.
Savage being overwhelmed in the playoffs is gonna happen regardless...that happens to all qb's their 1st time in; the same would be true for BO as well if it were him.
Even still what makes you think OB's gonna let him make mistakes to learn from? ...The gameplan is likely to be run heavy...moreso than it already is & if we get too far out of it he'd probably just pull him...
So my thing is if you're gonna go after the win in wk 17....go after it & play everyone on offense & defense.......at least for the 1st half anyway. The offense needs the reps for obvious reasons but lets not act like the defense couldn't use the reps too. The last thing we need in this opening playoff game is for the defense to come out flat giving up a quick 14 pts while the offense is laying their traditional egg for the 1st quarter.
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Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
Well, honestly I don't think that, but that's what he needs to do. Open it up and let the man learn something.
Fred
Veteran
Your "close estimate" after 10 years of following them "pretty damn close" is off by more than a factor of three, so obviously you have no idea what you are following. Oh well, the fact that you are clueless doesn't change your credibility any.
And this is why the "record against winning teams" is about the most asinine statistic ever. Besides the fact that inherently most teams are going to have a losing record against winning teams (when they win the team they are playing ... err ... loses) the Texans are 3-4 against winning teams this year.
If they lose to the Titans this week they will be 3-5 (.375) against winning teams. But if the Texans beat the Titans, then the Titans are not a winning team, so instead of getting credit for the win and being 4-4 (.500) against winning teams neither win against them counts so the Texans are 2-4 (.333) against winning teams. By this stupid statistic the Texans are a better team if they lose to the Titans, securing the 3rd win against a winning team. Think how great Texian would think the Texans were if they had lost one of the Colts games, making the Colts a winning team and improving the record against winning teams to 4-6 (.400)!
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The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
That's one of the reasons I put the "so far" in there. Also, after we make a deep run in the playoffs, we'll have beaten some more teams with winning records, so there's that.
OTOH, the Undefeated Dolphins didn't play a single team in the regular season that ended up with a winning record.
There's nothing wrong with beating teams that aren't great. That's a helluva lot better than playing down to your opponents and losing some close games you should have won.
And before anyone talks about the Jaguar game as playing down to your opponent, I don't think that happened there. I think we really were that bad with Osweiler at the helm. I'm hoping we're better with Savage in the driver's seat (and I'm hoping he stays healthy and proves me out.)
After watching both the Jags game & the Bengals game I hope O'b & GG realize that QB was only part of the problem. Maybe they're teaching it wrong, maybe they're communicating it wrong... but there's been an underlying problem all season that they haven't seemed to address yet.
chicagotexan2
Easterby = Little Finger/Cal = Fredo Corleone
There's been an underlying problem for 3 years. I like OB as a head coach but I really wish we could get a real O coordinator. I really hope Bob or Rick or whoever has the role has a come to Jesus with BOB about his offense like they did with Kubes about his defense.
Brandon420tx
Flounder
What were Crennels major shortcomings as a headcoach at KC? I mean I understand Cleveland because that whole organization has been in the toilet before and after Crennel was there. But what were the struggles in KC. Do you think he could be the HC here if he got a competant OC?
bigmck
Rookie
You have to define your stat. == If the Texans beat a team that is 0-1 but the team ends up 12-4, is that a Winning Team the Texans beat? What about that 1-0 team the Texans beat that ends up 4-12, is that a Winning Team Victory? I tried to Google "Records Against Winning Teams" and was unable to find anything due to what I just mentioned. This appears to be an "Arguable Stat" without an answer.
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bigmck
Rookie
I found a link that ranks all teams for the last 10 years, 2006 through 2015. The Texans are 21 on the list. That is the top two-thirds. That is probably higher than most would have thought, higher than the Chiefs. http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/08/nfl...ndianapolis-pittsburgh-which-nfl-team-is-best
Crennel is a lot like Wade in that they are both great DC's but I just don't think they have what it takes to be great HC's. Plus both are pushing 70 years old and probably looking at retirement.
Minnesota is on that list twice.