kastofsna
Hall of Fame
who says they'd be giving up on culpepper? BPA.
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- Thread starter kastofsna
- Start date
Blake
MMQB
How is this crying about Oaklands QB's? Its a fact that QB's normally go first overall. And Walter is nothing special.
What is smart, and what the Raiders do on draft day is 2 different things.
bah007
Hall of Fame
The Raiders like Walter & I dont think they would draft a QB even if he wasnt.
Walter is an extremely accurate passer who is still working on reading NFL coverages. He doesnt have the strongest arm but his accuracy outweighs that.
Pretty much the only knock on him is that he is not very athletic & holds the ball under pressure instead of throwing it away. And those are two very important things when you play behind a bad O-Line.
Walter is an extremely accurate passer who is still working on reading NFL coverages. He doesnt have the strongest arm but his accuracy outweighs that.
Pretty much the only knock on him is that he is not very athletic & holds the ball under pressure instead of throwing it away. And those are two very important things when you play behind a bad O-Line.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
Miami needs a receiver...I see them selecting Calvin Johnson if they have a Top 3 pick. Chambers gets doubled alot like Andre used to....If they could grab Calvin that gives them a great #1 at #2 and Wes Welker can be even more effective.
Culpepper will be ready next year.
Culpepper will be ready next year.
R
real
Guest
I would rather it be:
"Stud LT"---Pitts---Flannagan---Weary---Spencer
And then use Winston as our swing tackle...
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
We need a veteran guard to fill our LG needs though...either through draft or free agency.
R
real
Guest
Pitts?
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
I'm sorry, right guard.
R
real
Guest
I dunno...Kubiak seems to like The Weary/Mckinney experiment...
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
IMO McKinney is losing it bad...sounds kind of like he has nagging physical problems all the time now...we need to bring a new guy in I think. Weary is just a backup IMO...nothing special.
I don't think so. for some reason he's having a hard time saying McKinney doesn't need to be there.
R
real
Guest
Didn't Mckinney play the whole second half ? They asked him about it on the radio show because of his un-orthodox method of switching the two in and and and he said something along the lines of being pleased with the production out of the two....
Nevertheless, even if McKinney can't cut it I still like Weary...
SF49erFaithful
Crabtree FTW
That doesn't apply for teams that already have franchise quarterbacks like Culpepper, unless of coure they [Franchise QB's] are getting up there in years and retire soon.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
Culpepper is obviously not their Franchise QB if he is not even playing right now. Truth is they are still looking, but they need to stick with one. I don't understand taking Culpepper out.
SF49erFaithful
Crabtree FTW
If I'm not mistaken he has been a little hampered by injuries this season so he should be better at full health.
painekiller
All Pro
2nd that. They thought he was ready to play, but they finally figured out that he just could not move fast enough yet to play. So why get the man killed when you have a healthy capable former starter on the bench. (I use that term very loosely).
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
I dont see how they could mistake his health that bad to still have him out because of injury...I think it alot more to do with other factors.
loosely or not, he threw for 414 yards this past Sunday
Without a doubt, he was playing badly. They had their fans calling for JoeyHarrington(can you imagine that??). But they want to blame his poor performance on his health, even though they know that's not it. He moved around pretty well against us. He just wasn't making the plays he needed to make, wasn't putting it up for his team to make a play on the ball.
They haven't won any games since starting Joey, but the rest of the team is more involved, and they'll be winning soon.
Well, their next three games are Chicago, Kansas City, and Minnesota.... I'd bet they win at least one of those, KC & Minn are at home.
Then they go to Detroit(another possible win) then back home for Jacksonville(an easy win), NewEngland(a possible win).
They go to Buffalo(winnable), play the Jets at home(winnable), then play the Colts, should be cake after we decimate them the week before.
So they could finish with 7 wins. not where they wanted to be, but better than they are now.
kastofsna
Hall of Fame
chambers never gets doubled because he sucks. he's not a #1 at all. we need calvin johnson no doubt.
i don't know how much longer wes welker will stick around. he's great, but a free agent, and will probably get more money than he deserves. marcus vick appears to be the future as far as punts and kick returns are concerned, and derek hagan is looking good as a slot guy.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
I watch the Dolphins games sometimes unwantingly and from what I see Chambers gets doubled for the most part of every game.
kastofsna
Hall of Fame
i'd suggest watching with the television turned ON.
chambers has never been doubled. never. there's no reason to. he's had like 7 good games in his career.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
We must have a different view on what doubled is.
threetoedpete
Hall of Fame
Arron Rodgers fell to them for a reason. They get a shot to move up and take Quin, they'll grab it. Rodgers had a long looping deliery as I remember. You think Culpper is having troubles, wait till Rodgers gets the bit. My book says he'll spit it. Green Bay will have an orgasim if Quin falls to them.
threetoedpete
Hall of Fame
How many years we gotta pass the hosses up ? Good Greif. I want the o-line fixed. First. I don't want a maybe prospect in the third round. I want the stud. If we controll the ball, we can controll the game. I can live without All Day. I can't live with not being able to dominate on the o-line. Five years is long enough. Time to bite the bullet and draft the stud o-lineman. It ain't sexy but it's what good ball clubs do. You got a hole you plug it with the best guy you can get. And you look at our rushing this year, because the guys can't pass block so they've had to cut their splits, I don't know why there's this Disney warm and fuzzy that the line is fixed with the addition of
Spencer only ? My way there is no maybe . The o-line should be much improved. Not enough to catch the Colts. But enough to set the table for '8. Draft you're pretty RB then. Kubes has demenstrated if his qb has time, he can hide the warts on the defense. You're going to see. Salaam goes down, we're going to see in spades this year. With three or four dominate prospects on the board there's no reason, after five years not to come away with at least one of them. And we're not the only club looking at them Dorthy. You wait, you're damning this club to another top ten pick next year. All Day hitting the line with no holes there has no apeal to me at all. Getting the dominate OLT tells me we're on the right track to catch the Colts.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
That's my point.
They didn't even look at Lienart or Cutler..... why would they go for Quinn??
I thought we already determined that 1st round Linemen wasn't the norm for Denver.
Since 1996 They've only drafted one OLman... and that was only a few years ago. I know it was a different team, with different holes, but they seem to value defense more than offense, and with the defense they've played with in the last few years, it shows.
CB, OLB, or DT will be where we use that 1st round pick next year, and we won't be in the top 10, there are 5 teams in the AFC alone that will finish worse than we will.
kastofsna
Hall of Fame
rodgers has one of the quickest deliveries in the game.
kastofsna
Hall of Fame
i'm not sure what your point is. double-teaming is basically when the safety helps out, and that's pretty rare for chambers. he runs sloppy routes and isn't physical at all. he's SOFT, in fact. he has plenty of trouble just getting off the line. sure, he'll see the OCCASIONAL double-team, but so would any "#1" receiver in the league. but it's not emphasized. if anything, marty booker has seen far more, just because he's more of a straight deep-threat than chambers.
he's the 4th best receiver on miami's roster right now. 4th.
YoungTexanFan
All Pro
You can look at that little stat yes, but you also have to look at the team Denver has built. They have the stud linemen that fit their system and now they can "cherrypick" a late-round project that they develop into a solid player. We don't have that luxury. We don't have the studs in front of anyone. We don't have studs and drafting projects like Wand, Spencer, Winston won't get you anywhere fast. They have plenty of potential to develop, but those are the type of guys that sit a year or two or three and learn before being thrust into a role where we expect semi-stud immediatly. We don't have another 3 years for our third round draft picks to develop how they should, we need that super-stud. My pick this year: Gaither from Maryland. Second option: Joe Thomas. Third Option: Sam Baker.
Well with that logic, cutting Wand makes even less sense, as he could've been developing for next year. & for Kubiak to go totally against that thinking, and pick up two third round projects in his first year, but a 1st rounder in his second is kinda backwards thinking if you ask me.
WinstonJustice & D'Brickshaw Ferguson are two prime examples of linemen we had absolutley no interest in, in this years draft. Guys like them will be overlooked by us again.
& while the talk around here was that Eric would start immediately at LT, & Spencer would be developed for the future was just fan talk. Kubiak knew(I imagine) from the get go where he was going to put the two when he picked them, hence drafting Spencer ahead of Winston. I also imagine he thought about starting Spencer in Week 1 the minute he got him.
YoungTexanFan
All Pro
I know it goes against that logic, but no O-linemen was good enough for #1 overall, and Kubiak went with another linemen who did. Justice did not match up with our team, and has injury concerns as well as off-the-field issues. The Spencer at LT project still baffles me, but I'll trust Kubiak on this and let him test it out. I don't think he was expecting Winston to be available there, but when he was, he snatched him up. I felt, and still feel, that Winston was the more NFL ready prospect.
Wand was not HIS project. It was a failed attempt by capers to develop a player. When Salam and Weigert are your starting OT's, you need help, and you need IMMEDIATE help. Pitts is our best O-linemen by a pretty good deal, and he was only a second rounder. There is a reason players go first round as opposed to third round.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
You are overstating the waiting period. Denver has one guy who started as a rookie and three who started after waiting 1 year, including the 1st rounder. Plus it would be almost foolhardy to spend top dollar on a LT if they already believe they had one who was ready to start this year. Now getting a top rated center in the 2nd might make sense.
And some postions can be filled on a regular basis by third round guys. I think there is normally plenty of OL talent in the third. Not that stud you'd get in the first that would fit the majority of football teams, but since our team doesn't want the same guy the other 28 teams are looking for, we can get our guy, like Spencer who can start right away in the third on a regular basis.
There are only 3 other teams looking for athletic gaurds under 300lbs. Pitts is a keeper, but we run better behind Weigart & Mckinney/Weary at the moment. I see another Gaurd, and a Center in our future, unless Hogdon can win over Kubiak(I don't think he plays any worse than Flanagan..... but that's a different argument all together).
EW should replace Wiegart by next year..... if not, he'll either provide the depth we are getting out of Bedell, or Salaam(originally), or he'll be cut, and we'll look for a new RT. Wiegart has not been our worse OLman this year. & has been getting better each game. The line as a whole has been getting better, and OL talent in the near future may be aquired simply for depth. Reducing the possibility of a first round ugly even further.
There are only 3 other teams looking for athletic gaurds under 300lbs. Pitts is a keeper, but we run better behind Weigart & Mckinney/Weary at the moment. I see another Gaurd, and a Center in our future, unless Hogdon can win over Kubiak(I don't think he plays any worse than Flanagan..... but that's a different argument all together).
EW should replace Wiegart by next year..... if not, he'll either provide the depth we are getting out of Bedell, or Salaam(originally), or he'll be cut, and we'll look for a new RT. Wiegart has not been our worse OLman this year. & has been getting better each game. The line as a whole has been getting better, and OL talent in the near future may be aquired simply for depth. Reducing the possibility of a first round ugly even further.
YoungTexanFan
All Pro
Well, this is my opinon, and it hasn't changed in 5 years. We need a stud LT. I do not believe Spencer is a NFL LT, more of a RG. I don't think anyone on our roster is a true LT and I don't have any patience to develop one while we plug people in. Denver's line situation is different than ours. I don't know wether to attribute it to player development coaches or just better drafting, but we don't have time to develop anyone. We need the most NLF ready, elite LT. I feel that is Gaither, then Thomas.
And they fall in the same category as D'Brick. the most NFL ready for 28 out of 32 teams. & we aren't one of the 28......
YoungTexanFan
All Pro
So tell me that Spencer fits as a "Denver" linemen. Tell me that a 315 lb Eric Winston recovering from major knee surgery who struggles with lateral movement and had a noticable gait...tell me how those players fit our new, "special" catagory.
Excuse my french, but systems be damned. I want the best LT available.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Well we'll just have to disagree on Spencer. IMO you get stuck on opinions pre-draft and keep them for years after the fact as if the real performance in the NFL isn't more important. In any event, the taking stud LT's high theory has worked extremely poorly during the Texans' era.
2006
Ferguson--too early by far to tell but has given up 5 sacks so far.
2005--no top 10 guys but
Jamaal Brown--RT for a year
Alex Barron--RT
2004
Robert Gallery--decent at RT, flop so far at LT
2003
Jordon Gross--RT for 1 year, LT flop, back to RT now at LT by injury
2002
Mike William--bust
I know, I know--but this year _____ is sure fire.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
That's because teams double him everygame. The Miami passing game consists of Wes Welker running routes out of the slot and Marty Booker getting open occassionally to drop the ball 25% of the time. Oh, and don't forget about those dump offs to Ronnie Brown.
I go to FSU and most of the people here are Dolphins fans and every single one I have talked to either says you all need a QB or a WR. Half of the people that say you need a WR say that it is because Chambers gets doubled...I just assume the other half doesn't notice it or didn't mention it.
Personally I could see you guys going for some OL, after taking a chance at a receiver in the high rounds.
bah007
Hall of Fame
Hopefully for the Dolphins Ted Ginn lasts til the 33rd pick.
He could just run 9 routes all day & be successful there. That is the only route Culpepper throws good anyway.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
I assume Kubiak felt like the injury wouldn't effect his movement(enough) to consider it a problem. That 315 lb Winston used to play TE when he was first recruited by Miami...and is considered an athletic OL.
YoungTexanFan
All Pro
I know what he WAS. I know he was a TE for Midland, and a dang good one at that, but he is now a 315lb OT w/short arms and a surgicly repaired knee who struggles with quick lateral movement. I like Winston, but he does not fit the "system linemen" mold that you are suggesting.
Care to explain how Spencer fits that mold too? Quick feet for his size? Doesn't make him have quick feet in general. Just means that he is a half-step faster than all the other 353lb DT's turned rookie starting LT's.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
Hopefully he is not struggling with lateral movement now...but I would think that unless the surgery on his knee has taken it away from him, he still has alot of that foot quickness he used to display at TE.
Good list Infantrycak but lets add a couple names to it.
Division rival Jacksonville took Khalif Barnes last year in the second round
and he's working out as their LT.
And a real big surprise is rook Marcus McNeill out of Auburn who was thought
by most to be only a RT prospect for the NFL. Well guess what, he's gettin the job done so far as the Chargers LT.
I don't know what is more curious, the so called "experts" lack of ability to
identify a "franchise" LT or an overrated player who becomes a Bust.
bah007
Hall of Fame
I was really pushing for us to get McNeill in the 2nd round. Everybody knew he had talent but I think he was a little overweight & his technique & agressiveness were questioned by scouts.
Looking back, I'm glad we passed on him. Ryans was one of my favorite college players last year & I was sure he would be a 1st round pick.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Totally agree. I love guys like Ryans--1st round talent in the 2nd round. Winston--1st round talent in the 3rd round. What I am pointing out is forcing needs into a round which is a sure recipe for disaster despite all protests from the draftniks every year. You don't pass up on a superior CB for a hopeful LT. Wouldn't you have loved to have had Khalif Barnes and Dominique Foxworth instead of Buchanon?
Ok.... understandable. But, If there is an equally talented LT available, and you already have ChampBailey, and MarcusMcneil, but you need a LB who'll be taken in the next three or four picks, would taking that LB be a need pick?? or BPA in an area of need?? or would that be a reasonable choice for that team to make??