Lip service.
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"Matt Schaub gives Texans best chance to win in 2014" -Marshall Faulk
- Thread starter Nitrofish
- Start date
Lip service.
BullNation4Life
All Pro
Just discovered something on Sunday morning....
Matt Schaub still sucks, even when you spring forward an hour...
Matt Schaub still sucks, even when you spring forward an hour...
BullNation4Life
All Pro
please don't cut Schaub on tuesday!! If we go into the year with a rookie qb is there really any reason to push some cap into next year with the designated june 1st cut?
Idk how things work in the cap world but if we were to see what o'brien could do with schaub during camp and what can we cut him later and have it effect this years cap only or is there some sorta deadline to cut a player?
Idk how things work in the cap world but if we were to see what o'brien could do with schaub during camp and what can we cut him later and have it effect this years cap only or is there some sorta deadline to cut a player?
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
He has to be cut before June 1st to have all the dead money go on the 2014 cap.
Once the regular season starts his base salary becomes guaranteed if he is on the roster.
Other than those effects on how much he is paid and when dead money is accounted he can be cut at any time.
then we need to hold onto him as long as we can, if we don't keep him on the team we need to take the cap hit this year... no reason to push money into the future
i will worry about our future if we are spending money there already
ChampionTexan
Hall of Fame
The only way to take the full cap hit this year is by cutting him before June 1.
Nitrofish
Let The Big Fish Eat!
So what do you make of this? Is he saying he wants Schaub back, or just that he wants a proven vet like say Vick, McCown, Hoyer, etc? I notice you bolded "Johnson has always been a supporter of whoever is throwing him the ball" but failed to bold "He’s also been a huge supporter of Matt Schaub" Why is that?
So if he AJ supports whoever is throwing him the ball, I have three questions.
1. Why if he supports Keenum or anyone else publicly he means it and is being genuine, but if he supports Schaub, it's just lip service?
2. Isn't Keenum a project QB?
3. Why does Johnson feel the need to make public statements about such things if he supports whomever is throwing the ball to him, not to mention he made these comments at a charity event which would make one think he might normally have no comment about sports or who his QB is?
I have to admit, that was pretty funny. Thanks for the chuckle.
Do you know how much will go into next year? How much cap room we would still have if we push it off into 2015? I think it makes the most sense to make him a June 1st cut because it gives us money to fill the roster this year & next.
2014 cut:
+ $4M on 2014 cap
+ $17M on 2015 cap
+ $19M on 2016 cap
+ $17M on 2015 cap
+ $19M on 2016 cap
2015 cut:
+ $10M on 2014 cap
+ $10M on 2015 cap
+ $19M on 2016 cap
+ $10M on 2015 cap
+ $19M on 2016 cap
$7.5M sounds like a big number to carry an extra year, but considering Schaub's scheduled cap hit of $17M... not so much. Making Schaub a June 1st cut helps us get to $30M~$35M much easier in both 2014 & 2015.... & we need to spend about $15M~$25M to field a team in 2014.
Making him a June 1st cut alone raises us from $8M to $18M which puts us in the area we need to be without cutting OD or Manning (& we're already short at TE & Safety).
BullNation4Life
All Pro
Not to mention it will also help when you make JJ Watt the highest paid DE in NFL History....
It's 7:52 am CST and Matt Schaub still sucks....
Nitrofish
Let The Big Fish Eat!
Ok I understand all of this, but that still leaves the question of QB. If you cut Schaub and sign another Vet, what will their cap number be for 2014? Cassel just signed for 5 million per year, and I assume if the Texans acquire Mallett there would be a contract extension before the trade in the same range right right?
Does a significant pay cut for Schaub make any difference towards the cap or are we locked into that number no matter what? These scenarios assume Schaub does not take a pay cut, right?
Edit:
Can you talk about other possible cuts such as:
Johnathan Joseph: $11,250,000
Owen Daniels: $6,250,000
Danieal Manning: $6,000,000
Brice McCain: $1,750,000
Derek Newton: $1,404,064 (Surely this dude is getting cut, no?)
Won't O'Brien and Crennel be looking to fill some of these spots with draft picks, or others or do you see these guys staying on?
If we get Mallet, I hope we can get him for $5M/yr, but I bet it would be closer to $8M/yr.... however, his cap hit for 2014 & 2015 may not be any more than $3M each.
If we can get Schaub to take a significant pay cut to the $4M range, then make him a June 1, 2015 cut the dead money is only $3.5 each year... so if you want to field a competitive team in 2014 & maximize your dollars to resign Watt, I think that's the way to go.
Matt Schaub take a serious pay cut gives us:
+ $10M in 2014
+ $14M in 2015
+ $16M in 2016
+ $14M in 2015
+ $16M in 2016
We get back most of McCain's money, $840K & all of Newton's money $1.4M, $2.2M total. Makes no sense they are still on the roster today. Should have been done nine months ago.... but that's a different story.
The other guys... it would be too expensive to replace them, so you're just spinning your wheels. If we get a full season out of OD & DMan, that's money well spent. If Jjo plays like he did in 2011, same thing. I would have a deal in place to restructure his money though, in the event that I need it.
As far as Crennel goes. I know people like to talk about the talent we don't have on defense. With Antonio moving on & Earl Mitchell also a FA, we do have some serious issues. But we'll have eight 1st round, 2nd round, or high dollar FAs on defense.... we can only play 11 at a time & the next time someone puts eleven 1st round, 2nd round, or high dollar FAs on the field, will be the first time.
Don't need to be us. Besides, they played well when they weren't giving up 30 yard Pass Interference calls or 15 yard unnecessary taunting calls. Depth is still an issue, but coaching was their biggest problem last season.
Making Schaub a June 1st cut this year save over $10 million in 2014, $10 million in 2015, and over $15 million in 2015. A no-brainer.
You're right.
BullNation4Life
All Pro
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
LZ sometimes inserts his head deep into his ass if that is his comment about can't run a franchise worried about fans booing. Fans shouldn't run the franchise but at some point they do have an affect on a player and kicker and QB are the most susceptible positions and a coach/GM would be fools not to take it into consideration.
I'm guessing this is off Twitter.... no editor?
Nitrofish
Let The Big Fish Eat!
I have to laugh when people seem to speak for the entire fan base as if they are all united in a single perception. I know for a fact there are plenty of Schaub supporters in the Texans fan base, and just because the haters scream and shout the most does not mean all Texans fans think Schaub is Divisive.
I have said it before and I will say it again. O'Brien does not seem like the kind of guy who cares too much what fans think. He also knows if they start winning those boos will turn to cheers.
There is something to be said for the fact that even though some of the fan base sees Schaub as public enemy #1, it was Brice McCain that was the first to go, and not Schaub. He is still a Texan, at least for now.
I have said it before and I will say it again. O'Brien does not seem like the kind of guy who cares too much what fans think. He also knows if they start winning those boos will turn to cheers.
There is something to be said for the fact that even though some of the fan base sees Schaub as public enemy #1, it was Brice McCain that was the first to go, and not Schaub. He is still a Texan, at least for now.
GuerillaBlack
Hall of Fame
Brice McCain leaving first means absolutely nothing.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Do you go to the games? Yes there are Schaub supporters. But as a general matter haters out shout supporters and to the point if you try as a supporter to out shout them, your point is drowned out and just adds to the apparent volume of the sea of booing. It's golf clap v. drunken maniac - the maniac is the one who gets heard.
No, really there isn't. The two mean nothing to one another.
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
Yes. Every time you see me post short sentence(s) with an off color header including a name and @Xxxxx that is sourced from Twitter.
RT(ReTweet, copying a tweet from someone else) "@TermiRaider: @lancezierlein Can't run a franchise worried about fans booing." -- reply to LZ from user @TermiRaider...
I usually don't include RTs but LZs comment on it's own appeared kinda harsh if just a random swipe at Schaub. I don't know a clearer way to do it... sorry for the confusion.
Hervoyel
BUENO!
What's worse is that it's not correct even if he'd used the right word and spelled it correctly. Schaub is not "divisive" to the fan base. I'd say if anything the overwhelming majority of Texans fans are united in their feels about being done with Matt Schaub.
Nitrofish
Let The Big Fish Eat!
So you are ok as a fan being represented by the drunken maniacs? I'm not. My point was exactly that. The press reports it as fans in general not ok with Schaub, but in reality all they hear is the drunken maniacs. Neither my daughter of I are drunken maniacs, and we do not want to be lumped in with the drunken maniacs booing, burning jerseys, or showing up at Schaub's house.
Nitrofish
Let The Big Fish Eat!
See what I mean. How could you possibly know that or even think it? There are millions of Texans fans. How can you say with a straight face you know that the overwhelming majority think X?
:kubepalm:
I believe he meant to say divisive, meaning the source of division among the fans... in this case, I'm sure you agree, he's 100% correct.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
I didn't say anything about being OK with it.
But one of my favorite sayings is "don't sweat sh!t you can't change." The reality is positive voices get drowned out.
Nitrofish
Let The Big Fish Eat!
Will crap that means he will certainly be released now. The General record is not all that good if memory serves. It's kind of how I feel, as I said seems like he should have been the first cut, but my board mates say different, so I wait like the rest of you. Bad Joo Joo though if McClain said it. lol
Ok let me get this straight, since I think Schaub's time should be done in Houston I'm a drunken maniac?
I bet if you told Schaub he could go to another team he would be happy to go and avoid all of the criticism he will face if he stays in Houston.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
No.
You're a drunken maniac because you're crazy and you drink alot.
Of course, I also think Schaub's time should be done in Houston.
And I don't even drink.
So.
There you go.
BullNation4Life
All Pro
somebody is still 
Saw in another thread, thought I would put it in here cause God know this damn thing isn't long enough, that rumors flying around about Schaub trade to Browns for a 4th...
If they trade Schaub, will they still get the same relief on the cap than they would if they cut him June 1st?
Saw in another thread, thought I would put it in here cause God know this damn thing isn't long enough, that rumors flying around about Schaub trade to Browns for a 4th...
If they trade Schaub, will they still get the same relief on the cap than they would if they cut him June 1st?
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
somebody is still
Saw in another thread, thought I would put it in here cause God know this damn thing isn't long enough, that rumors flying around about Schaub trade to Browns for a 4th...
If they trade Schaub, will they still get the same relief on the cap than they would if they cut him June 1st?
No, it will be the same as if they cut him before June 1st - all the dead money in 2014.
Good to see can joke about it.
Yes, if you & the General agree, you're wrong.
The primary reason for us to cut Schaub is to gain cap relief. IMO, it doesn't make any sense to "take the hit now" because cutting him barely gets you enough money to sign his replacement. There isn't a FA QB out there right now that would be an upgrade over Schaub (now if we could get Josh Freeman... ) So you may as well eat the $4M & keep Matt.
jmo
Now if we make him a June 1st cut... then we save enough money to sign our rookie class, allowing us to spend the $10M the NFL just gave us on two or three FAs.
So why cut OD now? That doesn't make sense to me. Unless he just doesn't fit the profile & they're letting him get to the market as early as possible... but Garrett Graham is virtually identical physically, why make a push for him?
Younger, yes I understand that. Doesn't have the injury concerns, I understand that... but a bird in the hand you know? If you've got room on your team for a 6'3" 250ish TE with averagely good speed.... keep OD until you know you've got Graham.
So yeah, I'm confused here as well... but that's not saying a lot.
Grams
Veteran
CND posted that OD failed his physical - that is one of the reasons he was cut.
DX-TEX
#TomSavageDontCare
somebody is still
Saw in another thread, thought I would put it in here cause God know this damn thing isn't long enough, that rumors flying around about Schaub trade to Browns for a 4th...
If they trade Schaub, will they still get the same relief on the cap than they would if they cut him June 1st?
Source of this rumor?
DX-TEX
#TomSavageDontCare
Known about that. What about a trade possibility?
Seriously if the Jags traded Gabbert, Smith can trade Matt right?
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Contracts are way different.
DX-TEX
#TomSavageDontCare
I know, I know....but if freaking Blaine "I run like a coward if you breathe on me" Gabbert can be traded anyone can
Yeah... the overwhelming majority of Texans fans wanted Jacoby out of town too; and to a lesser extent Trindon Holliday. They've both been significant contributors in getting their team to a Super Bowl and one has a ring.
Mob mentality isn't always wise.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
I believe that most wanted to show Jacoby the door. As for Trindon, most were in favor of preferably giving the option to his "boss."
Yeah I see what you are saying.. looking at it like that it doesn't really matter if schaub is our best chance at winning, thats too big of a number to pay a guy like him for the next couple of years
if we cut him our cap situation doesn't look too bad in the future, we can get a deal done for JJ and build a solid team aroung our QB of the future
It doesn't always work that way. Winston left - not that he was the scurge Schaub is and Jacoby was - and went to a team that sucked. ...and was cut by them.
Having said that, I agree with the folks that say as soon as Schaub throws a pick, the crowd will want his head; not unlike this...
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
It doesn't always work that way. Winston left - not that he was the scurge Schaub is and Jacoby was - and went to a team that sucked. ...and was cut by them.
Having said that, I agree with the folks that say as soon as Schaub throws a pick, the crowd will want his head; not unlike this...
Ice cubes will be the last thing that Schaub would be worrying about.
Hervoyel
BUENO!
No, it's not but sometimes they're right and I'd say that a portion of "the mob" was even somewhat right about those two. Jacoby took a while to grow up and many people noted that. A lot of people questioned whether Jacoby was up to being that #2 or "2b" that the Texans seemed to hope he would become. His success with the Ravens seemed much about being used properly by the coaching staff than anything else. Our coaching staff wasn't going to do that so we'd have never seen that Jacoby Jones. We waited a long time for him to show up. Never got him.
Getting kicked to the curb seemed to get his attention and helped his focus for a while. Again, we weren't going to see that guy.
Trindon Holiday continued to be as scary for the Broncos as he was here. I'd say their superior special teams coaching (vs. our abysmal "Coach Joe's Special Kids Camp") helped him succeed when he did but again, we weren't going to reap the rewards of that here.
More than that guys like Jacoby Jones and Trindon Holiday come and go all the time. They helped another team that had a lot of other reasons why it was successful in addition to that help. Jerome Mathis was Jacoby Jones. Jermaine Lewis was Trindon Holiday. Both had splashes but disappeared just as quickly. Those guys can be replaced every single draft on the last day.
A lot of us think Matt Schaub needs to go. Most of us do I would hazard to guess. His situation is different from those two guys you mentioned in that he was a long-time starter but the crap that blew up in his face last year has been expected by many for a long time. Maybe nobody expected that specific level and kind of "WTF?" but the things he did poorly were well known to many and he received much criticism for that over the years. A significant part of the fan base was never sold completely on Schaub and last year it came to a head. Maybe he goes on to great success somewhere else but if OB looks at his body of work and says "Nope" then I'm fine with that. For every high I can point to a couple of Matt Schaub lows.
If OB wants to run with Matt for a year I'll be fine with that too. He better produce though. Which way do you think is better to be wrong? Let Matt Schaub go and risk him taking someone to the Super Bowl (Stop laughing!) or keep Matt Schaub and run another year with him expecting to see some success out of him in spite of everything that's happened?
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infantrycak
Hall of Fame
We saw a more productive guy and were right to let him go. Jacoby's production as a WR in two years in Baltimore barely tops his production in his last year as a Texan. They did not unleash some hidden Jacoby the Texans couldn't find on the league. He is now staring at a big pay cut for 2014 since the Ravens have offered something much smaller and he is attempting to find interest in the market.
Hervoyel
BUENO!
Agreed but all anyone remembers is the handful of great plays he made in their Super Bowl year. He did those things here too (what gave us so much hope for him) and we have to keep in mind that his ability to do that consistently is what got him placed on waivers here. If anything the Ravens get applause for knowing not to place too much stock in Jacoby but then why wouldn't they know that. They have his time in Houston to reference. Our coaches wanted more out of him than that (supposedly) and he wasn't going to be able to do that.
One of his highlight reel plays in Baltimore ends up being a fumble or a right-in-the-hands incompletion at the worst possible time like he dropped on us so often and he's not thought of as a guy who did good in his second stop.