Mario movement rumors (MERGED) Signs with Buffalo $100 million

[Dutchrudder]

Here is where I am not sure I agree with you CBA Article 8 page 34 Section 2 says:

Section 2. Negotiating Rights of Players with Less Than Three Accrued Seasons:
Any Veteran with less than three Accrued Seasons whose contract has expired may
negotiate or sign a Player Contract only with his Prior Club, if before the first day of the
League Year after the expiration of his contract, his Prior Club tenders the player a one
year Player Contract with a Paragraph 5 Salary of at least the Minimum Active/Inactive
List Salary applicable to that player. A player receiving such a Tender shall be known as
an "Exclusive Rights Player." If the Prior Club has not by that date made the Required
Tender or later withdraws such Tender, the player shall be completely free to negotiate
and sign a Player Contract with any Club, and any Club shall be completely free to negotiate
and sign a Player Contract with such player, without any penalty or restriction,
including, but not limited to, Draft Choice Compensation between Clubs or First Refusal
Rights of any kind, or any signing period.

Foster now has 3 seasons accrued. He will be entering his fourth and will be a restricted free agent instead of ERP. RFA tenders is what I think SM is referring to.

 

[Blake]

Here is where I am not sure I agree with you CBA Article 8 page 34 Section 2 says:

Section 2. Negotiating Rights of Players with Less Than Three Accrued Seasons:
Any Veteran with less than three Accrued Seasons whose contract has expired may
negotiate or sign a Player Contract only with his Prior Club, if before the first day of the
League Year after the expiration of his contract, his Prior Club tenders the player a one
year Player Contract with a Paragraph 5 Salary of at least the Minimum Active/Inactive
List Salary applicable to that player. A player receiving such a Tender shall be known as
an "Exclusive Rights Player." If the Prior Club has not by that date made the Required
Tender or later withdraws such Tender, the player shall be completely free to negotiate
and sign a Player Contract with any Club, and any Club shall be completely free to negotiate
and sign a Player Contract with such player, without any penalty or restriction,
including, but not limited to, Draft Choice Compensation between Clubs or First Refusal
Rights of any kind, or any signing period.

Maybe I am missing what you are saying. But Cak does a good job of laying out the Mario situation as it applies to the new CBA and tender rules.

The old CBA had five levels of RFA tender:

First and third round (maximum) tender
First round tender
Second round tender
Original draft pick tender
Right of first refusal (minimum) tender
If you want to know what that all means, I suggest reading the article 'Deciphering the Texans restricted free agent tenders' that I wrote two seasons ago.

The change is that the new CBA eliminates the old maximum tender (first and third round compensation) and makes the new max tender only a first round compensatory pick if the player is signed by another team.

LINK

 

[GuerillaBlack]

Maybe.

Then again, maybe not spending money on these cars allowed HPD to keep a couple more officers on the street and not lay them off. And those cops who are still around maybe prevent a mugging or robbery. Or maybe these new "hot rods" run down a drunk driver or three and keep that person from killing someone on the road. So this donation could save someone's life.

And if you're not a speeder or drunk driver, what do you have to worry about? They won't be used to stop you...

They should get the drivers hogging the left lane while texting, or going slow in the middle while eating, instead of the speeder paying full attention. But this is for another thread...

 

[Blake]

My question is, do poison pills still exist in recent contracts? Do NFL teams still employ them as a tactic to tear a player away?

 

[ChampionTexan]

My question is, do poison pills still exist in recent contracts? Do NFL teams still employ them as a tactic to tear a player away?

They have attempted to remove them. From Article 9, Section 3(e) of the CBA:

(iii) Notwithstanding Subsections (i) and (ii) above, no Offer Sheet may contain a Principal Term that would create rights or obligations for the Old Club that differ in any way (including but not limited to the amount of compensation that would be paid, the circumstances in which compensation would be guaranteed, or the circumstances in which other contractual rights would or would not vest) from the rights or obligations that such Principal Term would create for the Club extending the Offer Sheet (i.e., no “poison pills”).

 

[Goldensilence]

How do you plan on keeping him one more year, then trading him? We would have to franchise him (that'll cost between $16M & $22M for one year). If we don't want that $22M to hit our cap, we'll have to trade him this year, as next year we'll be in the same situation as we are now, except I believe the new CBA doesn't allow us to franchise him again.

Also consider "they" are saying we are already $20M over the "projected" 2012 cap, we still need to sign Myers, Brisiel, & Arian.

Of those three Brisiel will be a cheap contract(IMO expendable). Myers might command a bit more, Myers has played much better with getting better guard play. IMO that's where we need to be looking for improvement. I had hopes for Caldwell, but seems to be fading fast.

Where it's going to hit the fan is with Foster. The dude has earned his big pay day and he fits so well into this offense. Tate filled in very well, but I think in today's NFL you need two quality backs. We've got two right now. Pay Foster.

Far as tag and trade goes, ArlingtonTexan has echoed(or I echoed his sentiments) there's only been a few tag and trade deals worked out. I think it would be different if Mario clearly wanted out of Houston and on top of that another team really felt like he is the missing piece away from a playoff or SB run.

On top of that what are the risks of him outright signing his tender and we're on hook for a big cap hit?

Good teams know when to let players walk. I think this is going to be a big test for Rick Smith.

 

[Honoring Earl 34]

Of those three Brisiel will be a cheap contract(IMO expendable). Myers might command a bit more, Myers has played much better with getting better guard play. IMO that's where we need to be looking for improvement. I had hopes for Caldwell, but seems to be fading fast.

Where it's going to hit the fan is with Foster. The dude has earned his big pay day and he fits so well into this offense. Tate filled in very well, but I think in today's NFL you need two quality backs. We've got two right now. Pay Foster.

Far as tag and trade goes, ArlingtonTexan has echoed(or I echoed his sentiments) there's only been a few tag and trade deals worked out. I think it would be different if Mario clearly wanted out of Houston and on top of that another team really felt like he is the missing piece away from a playoff or SB run.

On top of that what are the risks of him outright signing his tender and we're on hook for a big cap hit?

Good teams know when to let players walk. I think this is going to be a big test for Rick Smith.

I wouldn't even worry about winning the trade if it made the Texans better . Mario for Dwayne Bowe heads up for example .

 

[DocBar]

Any option for trading MW probably ran out in week 5. The only likely options on the table are signing a cap friendly long term deal or letting him walk. I don't see him giving a hometown discount, but that could change depending on how his rehab is going.
If I were to do a palyer for a player swap, I'd go for Colston. ThesAints need D help and we need a WR. Win-win scenario. It ain't gonna happen, but it's such a nice thought.

 

[Grunky]

Break the bank for an injury prone DE? Umm, I think not. 1) Mario disappears in big games (in fact, one could argue he's never played in a "big game" in his collegiate/pro career). 2) Mario gets hurt... Alot. 3) We have a surplus of pass rushing talent. 4) We have gigantic holes to fill on the offensive side of the ball (WR2, WR3, TE, possibly LG). If we compromise our future for this guy, I will be sick to my stomach. Lets use this money, and sign Stevie Johnson.. I dunno, beats paying premium money to a man who does NOT deserve it.

 

[gafftop]

If Indy can part with Manning I surely hope we can part with SuperMario. Smart teams make smart decisons. The Pats do it all the time. If we can tag and trade that is even better. Just don't get outsmarted and get stuck holding the bag. I could see us tag and then get stuck with Mario because no team will trade.

 

[thunderkyss]

If Indy can part with Manning I surely hope we can part with SuperMario. Smart teams make smart decisons. The Pats do it all the time. If we can tag and trade that is even better. Just don't get outsmarted and get stuck holding the bag. I could see us tag and then get stuck with Mario because no team will trade.

I would agree the Texans screwed the pooch if they tag Mario.

I would also agree the Texans made a mistake if they sign a deal that averages more than $9M/yr.

Are you saying that keeping Mario for $2M/yr would be a mistake? That we should have parted ways instead? That it would have been smarter to let Mario walk than to sign him to a $2M/yr deal?

 

[DocBar]

Break the bank for an injury prone DE? Umm, I think not. 1) Mario disappears in big games (in fact, one could argue he's never played in a "big game" in his collegiate/pro career). 2) Mario gets hurt... Alot. 3) We have a surplus of pass rushing talent. 4) We have gigantic holes to fill on the offensive side of the ball (WR2, WR3, TE, possibly LG). If we compromise our future for this guy, I will be sick to my stomach. Lets use this money, and sign Stevie Johnson.. I dunno, beats paying premium money to a man who does NOT deserve it.

I agree with everything but "huge holes on offense". We have holes on offense but every hole on this team can be filled with BPA. No "need' to keep MW. He's a luxury for this team, and maybe a bad, indulgent one.
For the 1st "realistic" time in franchise history, this could be a truly meaningful draft and FA. What do the Texans do?

 

[thunderkyss]

I agree with everything but "huge holes on offense". We have holes on offense but every hole on this team can be filled with BPA. No "need' to keep MW. He's a luxury for this team, and maybe a bad, indulgent one.
For the 1st "realistic" time in franchise history, this could be a truly meaningful draft and FA. What do the Texans do?

I'd love to get an Offensive guard & 2 WRs with our first 3 picks.

 

[Thorn]

I agree with everything but "huge holes on offense". We have holes on offense but every hole on this team can be filled with BPA. No "need' to keep MW. He's a luxury for this team, and maybe a bad, indulgent one. For the 1st "realistic" time in franchise history, this could be a truly meaningful draft and FA. What do the Texans do?

While I hope something can be worked out to keep him, I'm beginning to fall in line with the bolded part of your post. Keeping Mario will will tighten the purse strings so much it will be difficult to get other players. I wouldn't even be saying this if it weren't for the fact that Brooks Reed stepped up and did such a good job.

 

[gafftop]

I would agree the Texans screwed the pooch if they tag Mario.

I would also agree the Texans made a mistake if they sign a deal that averages more than $9M/yr.

Are you saying that keeping Mario for $2M/yr would be a mistake? That we should have parted ways instead? That it would have been smarter to let Mario walk than to sign him to a $2M/yr deal?

????? One year $2mill no strings attached no problem. what are u talking about?

 

[gafftop]

Thunder,
Love your post on the other thread. I felt like I was cheating or a trader when I posted. Just didn't feel right.

 

[thunderkyss]

[/B]

????? One year $2mill no strings attached no problem. what are u talking about?

I'm just throwing a dollar amount out there. Where do you think it should be?

 

[Grunky]

I agree with everything but "huge holes on offense". We have holes on offense but every hole on this team can be filled with BPA. No "need' to keep MW. He's a luxury for this team, and maybe a bad, indulgent one.
For the 1st "realistic" time in franchise history, this could be a truly meaningful draft and FA. What do the Texans do?

I think our WR2 & WR3 situation is dire at this point... JJ & KW wouldn't be WR4 on most teams, and as AJ gets older, his effectiveness (in beating double teams) will gradually deteriorate. If we go into next season with both JJ & KW on the roster, we are in for some trouble. Neither of them can get separation, and they both have lousy top end speed. Lets show Mario the door, and use the money to scoop up a good vet, and draft a WR with our 1st rounder. I will even say we need a new TE. Is it just me, or did OD look old this season?

 

[gafftop]

just to get it on record (like I really need to) if they sign Mario to a big contract and we make wholesale changes to accommodate him it will set this Franchise back 3 yrs at least.

If Mario was a heart and soul player then I would maybe do it. Mario is a good guy but he is nowhere near the heart of the d.

I don't see even RS making that big a bone headed decision.

Blow this team up and risk being able to sign key players next year, sorry don't see it UNLESS no one wants him and we get him for say $24 mill 4 hrs and I really don't see that happening.

I'm just throwing a dollar amount out there. Where do you think it should be?

Posted a few days ago. Hrs supposed to be yrs. Obviously not going to happen. Even John McClain is beginning to see the light.

 

[thunderkyss]

Posted a few days ago. Hrs supposed to be yrs. Obviously not going to happen. Even John McClain is beginning to see the light.

$6M/yr....

Ok. Anything more than that is "blowing up the team"?

 

[gafftop]

$6M/yr....

Ok. Anything more than that is "blowing up the team"?

No, that is all I would pay him and to tell you the truth I would have to think twice about that amount because of his injury history, and motor. To actually sign him would severely hamper the Texans ability to sign new free agents and keep the ones they want in the next couple of years.

 

[thunderkyss]

To actually sign him would severely hamper the Texans ability to sign new free agents and keep the ones they want in the next couple of years.

You keep saying this.... & I'm trying to quantify what you mean.

Sure, it is unlikely we'll sign Mario with a $6M cap number for 2012. But signing him to a $10M number is not & it does not "severely hamper" anything.

We could probably work out a $13-$15 million cap & still be fine.

Franchising him at $22M yes, that would hurt the team in 2012, but not the future

 

[gafftop]

You keep saying this.... & I'm trying to quantify what you mean.

Sure, it is unlikely we'll sign Mario with a $6M cap number for 2012. But signing him to a $10M number is not & it does not "severely hamper" anything.

We could probably work out a $13-$15 million cap & still be fine.

Franchising him at $22M yes, that would hurt the team in 2012, but not the future

I hear you Thunder but i look at $15 million of the cap and I envision 1 or 2 FA's other than our own and $5- $10 mill to use on our FAs.

Do you remember one of my main reasons to consider Mario for trade before the beginning of the 2011 season was health concerns. For me those concerns have not been laid to rest.

Mario has potential but I don't think he has the motor. Again just my opinion. I would have loved to see him in the playoffs to see if that got him going.

 

[thunderkyss]

Mario has potential but I don't think he has the motor. Again just my opinion. I would have loved to see him in the playoffs to see if that got him going.

I will say that I don't believe we know what we've got, until we see these guys in the play-offs. Schaub & Mario, they've yet to show the world who they are.


& I can't wait to see.

 

[marks01234]

I have a sick feeling we are going to regret letting Mario go.

It goes against everything I've ever thought about running a franchise. Lock up your star QB, your LT and your DE. Never give a big, long contract to a running back.

I just hate having to give away an elite player. If we lose Wade next offseason, I think we could struggle to rush that passer moving forward.

No reason why we can't get a #2 WR in the draft. Same with an OG. We aren't going to find another Mario Williams in the draft.

 

[DocBar]

I have a sick feeling we are going to regret letting Mario go.

It goes against everything I've ever thought about running a franchise. Lock up your star QB, your LT and your DE. Never give a big, long contract to a running back.

I just hate having to give away an elite player. If we lose Wade next offseason, I think we could struggle to rush that passer moving forward.

No reason why we can't get a #2 WR in the draft. Same with an OG. We aren't going to find another Mario Williams in the draft.

You would be even sicker when you saw everything we had to lose by keeping MW. MW is a very good player, but he isn't a game changer week in and week out. He is a luxery that the Texans likely can't afford anymore. I'll take the players we have and double down on the players we're gonna draft over what MW brins to the table. He's injury prone and has a rep for taking plays off. I'll take Reed and Watt over MW any day of the week. All Pro talent coupled a non-stop motor trumps world class talent with a so-so motor every time.

 

[Kaiser Toro]

For the record, missed games since 2006:
Andre Johnson - 19
Matt Schaub - 16
Owen Daniels - 16
Connor Barwin - 15
Mario Williams - 14
Demeco Ryans - 10

 

[Corrosion]

You would be even sicker when you saw everything we had to lose by keeping MW. MW is a very good player, but he isn't a game changer week in and week out. He is a luxery that the Texans likely can't afford anymore. I'll take the players we have and double down on the players we're gonna draft over what MW brins to the table. He's injury prone and has a rep for taking plays off. I'll take Reed and Watt over MW any day of the week. All Pro talent coupled a non-stop motor trumps world class talent with a so-so motor every time.

After looking at the numbers .... Keeping MW isnt going to restrict the team from taking care of other area's .... Unless the numbers his agent wants are .... stupid.

And if they are willing to push some of that money to the 2013 season .... its almost a nobrainer to keep him.

If they can get him for $10m in base salary for next season thats a savings of $7m from his 2011 cap hit .... allowing them money to re-up with Foster , Briesel , Myers and Dreessen.

Couple that with the likelyhood of Ryans re-structuring his deal ($8.5M+ as it stands currently) , J.Jones and Lienart likely being cut ..... they have plenty of room to operate.

Resigning all of the above and adding at least one WR early in the draft ..... along with OL depth (maybe an interior starter in round 2) and we're happy campers.

Rackers is a FA and could likely be gone .... either a draft pick or FA kicker brought in , in the case of a draft pick that player would be significantly cheaper. I dont recall Rackers deal .....

The team can take care of those things that we all think need solving even while resigning MW.

 

[Blake]

I just want to reiterate, YOU DONT LET GOOD YOUNG PASS-RUSHERS GO!

Top 4 position in the NFL.

QB - Passer
CB - Pass Defender
LT - QB Protector
DE/Pass Rush OLB - QB Killer

Lastly, yes, Barwin and Reed did a great job this year. Luckily they stayed healthy all year. I wouldnt anticipate both of them making it through 2012 without injury. People get can caught up in starters. "We have our 2 outside linebackers. Next!" To that I say its a good thing that the Texans pay attention to our depth and drafted Reed.

 

[Goatcheese]

If you actually believe Mario Williams is going to sign for anything less than the other top DE/Rushbackers then you are living in a dream world.

This is the kind of contract he's going to get, and he may even get more considering he isn't a one dimensional player:

Peppers Six years $84 mil $42 mil guaranteed
Ware Seven years $79 mil $40 mil guaranteed
Freeney Six years $72 mil $31.5 guaranteed
Allen six years $73.26 mil $31 guaranteed
Suggs six years $62.5 mil $38.1 guaranteed
Johnson six years $76 mil $32 guaranteed

 

[steelbtexan]

Over in the draft section

It says that the Texans are talking to Keenan Robinson at the Sr. Bowl. This does not bode well for re-signing MW.

 

[Marcus]

I just don't get how some would consider Mario being a "luxury" considering the injuries that are going to occur.

Everyone says "Well, I can't wait till next season when we get everyone back healthy!". All it would take is one linebacker blowing out his knee, and you'll have everyone under the sun screaming, "why did we let Mario go?"

I think all this message board talk about letting Mario go, is just that . . . message board talk, with a dash of John McClain thrown in. I don't think they have any intention whatsoever of letting him go.

 

[Goldensilence]

I just don't get how some would consider Mario being a "luxury" considering the injuries that are going to occur.

Everyone says "Well, I can't wait till next season when we get everyone back healthy!". All it would take is one linebacker blowing out his knee, and you'll have everyone under the sun screaming, "why did we let Mario go?"

I think all this message board talk about letting Mario go, is just that . . . message board talk, with a dash of John McClain thrown in. I don't think they have any intention whatsoever of letting him go.

This line of thought assumes the FO would do absolutely nothing in the draft or FA to shore up depth at OLB if we let MW walk.

 

[The1ApplePie]

Anthony Spencer from Dallas is an FA and has history with Wade. Not a bust but not an All-Star either. Very good against the run though.

Could be a cheap, less talented replacement for Mario. Could platoon with Brooks Reed opposite Barwin

 

[badboy]

Foster now has 3 seasons accrued. He will be entering his fourth and will be a restricted free agent instead of ERP. RFA tenders is what I think SM is referring to.

As he played in only 6 games first season, I thought it was not an accrued year?
EDIT: He has 3.
1. Accrued Seasons Calculation:
(a) For the purposes of calculating Accrued Seasons under this Agreement, a
player shall receive one Accrued Season for each season during which he was on, or
should have been on, full pay status for a total of six or more regular season games, but
which, irrespective of the player's pay status, shall not include games for which the player
was on: (i) the Exempt Commissioner Permission List, (ii) the Reserve PUP List as a
result of a nonfootball injury, or (iii) a Club's Practice Squad.

 

[badboy]

I have a sick feeling we are going to regret letting Mario go.

It goes against everything I've ever thought about running a franchise. Lock up your star QB, your LT and your DE. Never give a big, long contract to a running back.

I just hate having to give away an elite player. If we lose Wade next offseason, I think we could struggle to rush that passer moving forward.

No reason why we can't get a #2 WR in the draft. Same with an OG. We aren't going to find another Mario Williams in the draft.

Do you lock up your QB, LT or DE if their back up started in their place and did extremely well? If you can get basically same production from a younger backup at cheaper rate plus sign a starter from free agency and have 5-7 million left for your own free agents....

 

[badboy]

For the record, missed games since 2006:
Andre Johnson - 19
Matt Schaub - 16
Owen Daniels - 16
Connor Barwin - 15
Mario Williams - 14
Demeco Ryans - 10

Yep and for which of those do we have a very good back up that started & had same productivity we expected from the starter?

 

[badboy]

If you actually believe Mario Williams is going to sign for anything less than the other top DE/Rushbackers then you are living in a dream world.

This is the kind of contract he's going to get, and he may even get more considering he isn't a one dimensional player:

Peppers Six years $84 mil $42 mil guaranteed
Ware Seven years $79 mil $40 mil guaranteed
Freeney Six years $72 mil $31.5 guaranteed
Allen six years $73.26 mil $31 guaranteed
Suggs six years $62.5 mil $38.1 guaranteed
Johnson six years $76 mil $32 guaranteed

Then wh did he agree to his first contract with no bonus? It ain't all on the agent.

 

[ThaShark316]

Yep and for which of those do we have a very good back up that started & had same productivity we expected from the starter?

None of them. Can't say that about Reed (I believe that's where you are going with this) until Reed plays a full season.

 

[Mr teX]

For the record, missed games since 2006:
Andre Johnson - 19
Matt Schaub - 16
Owen Daniels - 16
Connor Barwin - 15
Mario Williams - 14
Demeco Ryans - 10

further proof these jagwagons in here don't know what the hell they're talking about. On 1 hand Mario, the pro bowl DE, is worth next to nothing & we should just let him walk b/c he's not worth what he may command (stupid argument in & of itself b/c you obviously are worth whatever a team is willing to pay you) & on the other, He's a "luxury" this team can do without. Well if he's a luxury, it implies that he's good enough to start & be a force on the team right? He can't be both. He's either good enough that we need to make sure we resign him or he's bad enough to let walk. Which is it Mario haters?

This whole thing reminds me of Schaub vs. Rosenfels. Some in here were clamoring for Rosenfels to be the starter over Schaub b/c:

-Schaub was always hurt
-Rosenfels arm was better...really?
-He has better command of the team based on the last few games of the prior season..etc..etc.

Then.............................Rosencopter happened. Now alot of the same people are dropping Schaub in as a top 10 qb & Rosenfels can't even beat about a Tavaris freaking Jackson for a starting spot in Minesota.

So yeah, You guys go ahead & put your eggs in a still unproven 2nd yr. guy in Brooks Reed basket...& if he goes down next year or doesn't perform well, what will be our recourse? Depth in this league is an important thing for a team too...signed, the 2011 Houston Texans.

 

[ThaShark316]

further proof these jagwagons in here don't know what the hell they're talking about. On 1 hand Mario, the pro bowl DE, is worth next to nothing & we should just let him walk b/c he's not worth what he may command (stupid argument in & of itself b/c you obviously are worth whatever a team is willing to pay you) & on the other, He's a "luxury" this team can do without. Well if he's a luxury, it implies that he's good enough to start & be a force on the team right? He can't be both. He's either good enough that we need to make sure we resign him or he's bad enough to let walk. Which is it Mario haters?

This whole thing reminds me of Schaub vs. Rosenfels. Some in here were clamoring for Rosenfels to be the starter over Schaub b/c:

-Schaub was always hurt
-Rosenfels arm was better...really?
-He has better command of the team based on the last few games of the prior season..etc..etc.

Then.............................Rosencopter happened. Now alot of the same people are dropping Schaub in as a top 10 qb & Rosenfels can't even beat about a Tavaris freaking Jackson for a starting spot in Minesota.

So yeah, You guys go ahead & put your eggs in a still unproven 2nd yr. guy in Brooks Reed basket...& if he goes down next year or doesn't perform well, what will be our recourse? Depth in this league is an important thing for a team too...signed, the 2011 Houston Texans.

Amen.

When that tape gets out on Reed and he goes 5 games w/o a sack, then what? Ohhhh, I know:

"FIRE RICK SMITH" threads! "WE SHOULD HAVE KEPT MARIO!!!" threads, too. Color me worried if we don't bring Mario back.

 

[dalemurphy]

further proof these jagwagons in here don't know what the hell they're talking about. On 1 hand Mario, the pro bowl DE, is worth next to nothing & we should just let him walk b/c he's not worth what he may command (stupid argument in & of itself b/c you obviously are worth whatever a team is willing to pay you) & on the other, He's a "luxury" this team can do without. Well if he's a luxury, it implies that he's good enough to start & be a force on the team right? He can't be both. He's either good enough that we need to make sure we resign him or he's bad enough to let walk. Which is it Mario haters?

This whole thing reminds me of Schaub vs. Rosenfels. Some in here were clamoring for Rosenfels to be the starter over Schaub b/c:

-Schaub was always hurt
-Rosenfels arm was better...really?
-He has better command of the team based on the last few games of the prior season..etc..etc.

Then.............................Rosencopter happened. Now alot of the same people are dropping Schaub in as a top 10 qb & Rosenfels can't even beat about a Tavaris freaking Jackson for a starting spot in Minesota.

So yeah, You guys go ahead & put your eggs in a still unproven 2nd yr. guy in Brooks Reed basket...& if he goes down next year or doesn't perform well, what will be our recourse? Depth in this league is an important thing for a team too...signed, the 2011 Houston Texans.

Depth is the reason to let Mario go. His cap number limits our depth.

 

[Goldensilence]

further proof these jagwagons in here don't know what the hell they're talking about. On 1 hand Mario, the pro bowl DE, is worth next to nothing & we should just let him walk b/c he's not worth what he may command (stupid argument in & of itself b/c you obviously are worth whatever a team is willing to pay you) & on the other, He's a "luxury" this team can do without. Well if he's a luxury, it implies that he's good enough to start & be a force on the team right? He can't be both. He's either good enough that we need to make sure we resign him or he's bad enough to let walk. Which is it Mario haters?

This whole thing reminds me of Schaub vs. Rosenfels. Some in here were clamoring for Rosenfels to be the starter over Schaub b/c:

-Schaub was always hurt
-Rosenfels arm was better...really?
-He has better command of the team based on the last few games of the prior season..etc..etc.

Then.............................Rosencopter happened. Now alot of the same people are dropping Schaub in as a top 10 qb & Rosenfels can't even beat about a Tavaris freaking Jackson for a starting spot in Minesota.

So yeah, You guys go ahead & put your eggs in a still unproven 2nd yr. guy in Brooks Reed basket...& if he goes down next year or doesn't perform well, what will be our recourse? Depth in this league is an important thing for a team too...signed, the 2011 Houston Texans.

Dude,

First, I don't get where you get off calling people jagwagons (whatever the hell that is).

Second, the Schaub and Rosenfels debate doesn't fit. It's not a matter of people here clamoring for Brooks Reed to get the nod over Mario.

Third, I don't think I've ever seen a reasonable poster claim they HATE Mario Williams. There is some fair criticism though. A guy with his kind of physical attributes should be taking over games on the DL. We've seen that in flashes but nothing consistent. There's also questions about his motor.

Fourth,it's not that anyone thinks Mario Williams is worth close to nothing; its quite the opposite. We know his value is going to be high on the free market. I posted earlier in the thread about what contract values we should be expecting. I think Goatcheese did a great job of getting a total round up of what similar talent players landed with their big contracts. Honestly, its more about what cap hit we can expect and flexibility with the cap looking at next year's crop of FA to be players.

Fifth, I think most people here who are ok with letting him walk would LOVE to see him resigned long as it's not going to kill our cap flexibility. I think plenty of us would like to see if Mario can turn into a game changer now that he has other people to help get pressure on the QB and a competent DC.

Sixth, why do I keep seeing posts like yours assuming that if we let Mario walk it automatically kills our depth. Like we'd do absolutely nothing in FA and the draft to address the issue?

Your post was an all or nothing and sitting here...its looking like a lot of nothing.

 

[Mr teX]

Amen.

When that tape gets out on Reed and he goes 5 games w/o a sack, then what? Ohhhh, I know:

"FIRE RICK SMITH" threads! "WE SHOULD HAVE KEPT MARIO!!!" threads, too. Color me worried if we don't bring Mario back.

People see JJ Watt out there hustling & making plays & think that's all it takes to be a force on the D-line...Hustling. The reality of it is he moves damn well, is strong as an ox, He's HUUUGGGEEE & has tennis racket sized hands. You combine those attributes with the motor & mentality he has & its deadly....as we saw for 16 games this season.

Reed, right now anyway, is not working with any of those tools. For the most part, No real exceptional speed, strength or bevy of moves tackles should worry about. Physically, he's not at all imposing. For all intents & purposes, he's just another guy out there. IMO, he's just benefiting from the havoc that Smith & Watt & to lesser degree Cushing are creating in Wade's system.

Throughout his time as the starter i saw nothing from Reed that screamed to me "Wow". Mario being able to hold on to big ben with 1 arm & a Left tackle on the other arm..& then eventually bring ben down for the sack on the other hand...not many guys in the league could do that...& you don't just dispose of guys like that.

 

[badboy]

None of them. Can't say that about Reed (I believe that's where you are going with this) until Reed plays a full season.

Actually, Barwin was Mario's back up. Reed played other side.

Link: The Texans played outstanding defense after Williams was injured. Defensive coordinator Wade Phillips moved Connor Barwin to Williams’ side and inserted rookie Brooks Reed on the opposite side.

http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexan...maintaning-units-strength-will-be-a-priority/

11 1/2 sacks Reed had 6 in reg season + 3 1/2 more in PO.

 

[Mr teX]

Dude,

First, I don't get where you get off calling people jagwagons (whatever the hell that is).

Second, the Schaub and Rosenfels debate doesn't fit. It's not a matter of people here clamoring for Brooks Reed to get the nod over Mario.

But it is & if you can't see that, i don't know what to tell you.

Third, I don't think I've ever seen a reasonable poster claim they HATE Mario Williams. There is some fair criticism though. A guy with his kind of physical attributes should be taking over games on the DL. We've seen that in flashes but nothing consistent. There's also questions about his motor.

You guys make it seem like we're talking about albert haynesworth here. The only people who have questions about his motor are people on Houston Texans messageboards. Those who are closet to him (his teammates & coaches) & are being objective when they watch him play don't have those questions. This is a guy who has played through injuries & still been the main sack guy for his team. This is a guy who has had to endure Dick Smith & Frank Bush as D-coordinators & still shined. This is a guy who had to rely on the likes of Peety Faggins & Kareem Jackson to cover their WR's for more than a nanosecond to be able to "take over games." Just b/c he doesn't jump around like a monkey every time he makes a play or have a notable silly ass sack dance doesn't mean the guy doesn't have a motor.

Fourth,it's not that anyone thinks Mario Williams is worth close to nothing; its quite the opposite. We know his value is going to be high on the free market. I posted earlier in the thread about what contract values we should be expecting. I think Goatcheese did a great job of getting a total round up of what similar talent players landed with their big contracts. Honestly, its more about what cap hit we can expect and flexibility with the cap looking at next year's crop of FA to be players.

& this is where the problem lies. Everyone's a GM / capologist now. Many of the same people here were saying that we shouldn't redo Aj's contract too...citing "well, it's his fault, now he has to honor the contract". The reality of it is, that's just not the way you handle your star players...you coddle those guys, unless they act like idiots..(dunta). & make no mistake about it Mario's a star player. I've been over to the colts messageboard recently & some fans over there are talking about picking up mario in an effort to help Pagano transform their Defense. He is worth what he is worth. The wildcard in all this is whether Mario wants to finish what he started here...noone can predict that. There are many reasons the Texans FO went on ahead & took him over Reggie & VY in 2006, 1 of those reasons was signability.


Fifth, I think most people here who are ok with letting him walk would LOVE to see him resigned long as it's not going to kill our cap flexibility. I think plenty of us would like to see if Mario can turn into a game changer now that he has other people to help get pressure on the QB and a competent DC.

He was already a game changer...with Wade's system & better players around him than he's ever had before, signs were pointing to him becoming even better. Why would you cash in your chips when you're on a hot streak?

Sixth, why do I keep seeing posts like yours assuming that if we let Mario walk it automatically kills our depth. Like we'd do absolutely nothing in FA and the draft to address the issue?

Well, for 1, there's precedent with this franchise to do just that...nothing. The 2nd thing is, noone you pick via FA is going to be better & cheaper than Mario if you choose to go that route. There is a tiny possibility that you could draft someone who could be better, but that person likely won't be coming until the 3rd round at best so chew on that for bit. what, you think that the combo of Reed/Braman or whomever is going to be better than Mario/Reed? The percentages are likely not in your favor imo.

Your post was an all or nothing and sitting here...its looking like a lot of nothing.

I try not to call folks names on here, but some on here bang on the same subject with half truths & flat out lies sometimes that it just gets annoying to read.

 

[srrono]

Life without Mario if this comes to be Texans must replace that depth we had at OLB with Mario. I think Braman & Nading are ok but if Reed or Barwin get hurt I am not comfortable Braman & Nading starting. Does that mean Texans draft needs change with loss of Mario or is this a position they look to fill with a FA? It would be a back up OLB not a starter so maybe a 2nd or 3rd round pick.

 

[cbs1507]

I don't care if some people think he is expendable, I guarantee you that Mario Williams is our top priority in FA this offseason.

I believe his franchise tag is somewhere between $16-$18 million (some people reported $22 million). But people are ignoring one big thing...if he does not get franchised he will have to sign a long-term contract somewhere (if not the Texans). A long term deal will not give him $16-$18 million per year(let alone $22 million). It is not a stretch to believe we can get a long term deal done when you consider the top DE/OLB are averaging around $11-$14 million on their contracts.

Mind you his cap hit was $15 million this season and we have plenty of other FAs and cap casualties that will free up cap space.

 

[badboy]

Life without Mario if this comes to be Texans must replace that depth we had at OLB with Mario. I think Braman & Nading are ok but if Reed or Barwin get hurt I am not comfortable Braman & Nading starting. Does that mean Texans draft needs change with loss of Mario or is this a position they look to fill with a FA? It would be a back up OLB not a starter so maybe a 2nd or 3rd round pick.

IMO yes it does. Beerlover, RMartin65 & I are presently working on presenting our annual joint mock. We will present one with Mario on roster and one if he moves on.

 

[Kaiser Toro]

IMO yes it does. Beerlover, RMartin65 & I are presently working on presenting our annual joint mock. We will present one with Mario on roster and one if he moves on.

Always can depend on y'all to provide a platform for directional conversations in the offseason. Much appreciated.