We had just signed Derrick Mason the week before. We don't know that Lloyd was available at that time. We're right at the cap.... I don't know that Mason cost us anything.
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Mario movement rumors (MERGED) Signs with Buffalo $100 million
- Thread starter gafftop
- Start date
We had just signed Derrick Mason the week before. We don't know that Lloyd was available at that time. We're right at the cap.... I don't know that Mason cost us anything.
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
I wanted Mario in the 2006 draft, and would prefer to see Mario back in a Texans uniform. However, I have always been very frugal in my fandom when it comes to the cap - most notably the Carr wars and letting Dunta go.
Now with a taste of the playoffs, and the direction of the team, specifically on defense, we should invest to win now - this is a luxury we have not known. Mario will make a strong defense better, seamlessly, and will sew up the nucleus of a top 5 defense for the next four years.
Our other offseason needs are to sign Arian, which we have leverage with unlike Mario. He isn't going anywhere, without receiving value in return and we have a quality, hungry back up ready should Arian be moved or is a holdout. We will bring back San Marcos native Brisiel and Myers, and will not break the bank. We should draft a talented WR, which will not break the bank due to our draft position. I would like for us to draft a FB, OG/C, OT, ILB and DE.
In FA, bringing in a WR to compete for WR3 will be helpful. As others have noted Meachem, I believe he would be a perfect candidate to compete for this position, nothing more.
CB is not a need, Smith has invested picks and FA dollars on this position to keep us whole for a two year window. With a competent defensive coaching staff I am more confident the CBs will continue to grow.
2013 is all about Brown, Barwin, & Quin.
Smith earned his money this past two years in the draft and in FA last year, now we will see how good of a GM he is in signing his own with the Lombardi in sight.
Now with a taste of the playoffs, and the direction of the team, specifically on defense, we should invest to win now - this is a luxury we have not known. Mario will make a strong defense better, seamlessly, and will sew up the nucleus of a top 5 defense for the next four years.
Our other offseason needs are to sign Arian, which we have leverage with unlike Mario. He isn't going anywhere, without receiving value in return and we have a quality, hungry back up ready should Arian be moved or is a holdout. We will bring back San Marcos native Brisiel and Myers, and will not break the bank. We should draft a talented WR, which will not break the bank due to our draft position. I would like for us to draft a FB, OG/C, OT, ILB and DE.
In FA, bringing in a WR to compete for WR3 will be helpful. As others have noted Meachem, I believe he would be a perfect candidate to compete for this position, nothing more.
CB is not a need, Smith has invested picks and FA dollars on this position to keep us whole for a two year window. With a competent defensive coaching staff I am more confident the CBs will continue to grow.
2013 is all about Brown, Barwin, & Quin.
Smith earned his money this past two years in the draft and in FA last year, now we will see how good of a GM he is in signing his own with the Lombardi in sight.
jahunter221
Practice Squad
Look plain and simple resign Mario. Wade will have so many toys to play with and the defense will be sick.
TexCanada
All Pro
The more I think about this situation the more likely I think it is that we retain Mario. I think they will give him a large signing bonus and then back-load his contract.
JJ will have to be released. KW will have to restructure or get cut. Leinart will get cut. Allen will be let go unless he signs a very reasonable contract. 'Meco and couple of others may have to do some restructuring as well. I would say restructure with Schaub as well, but I don't think we will do that until he has returned fully from his injury and played a few games at least.
JJ will have to be released. KW will have to restructure or get cut. Leinart will get cut. Allen will be let go unless he signs a very reasonable contract. 'Meco and couple of others may have to do some restructuring as well. I would say restructure with Schaub as well, but I don't think we will do that until he has returned fully from his injury and played a few games at least.
hmmm.... I suspect he could have bought this one by trading in his 2006 orange one plus last year's money.
Speaking of Mario and cars, did you see this...?
Mario donates five Camaros to HPD
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
Maybe they will fit Mario into the cap. However, every time you cut players with years left on their contract, the team takes a cap hit from the remaining years' signing bonus. For instance, Kevin Walter's deal runs through 2014, I think. If his signing bonus for the 5 year deal was $10 million then the prorated amount against the cap is $2 million per year. Cutting him with three years left, would escalate those three years into one. So, though his salary wouldn't count against the cap in 2012, $6 million in signing bonus money would.
In those cases, you have to take into account his cap hit for next year. His salary plus prorated bonus (or any bonus due this year). If that number is larger say $7 then we save $1M of cap space.
It may not be worth cutting him for $1M of cap space, but it depends on what you are trying to accomplish.
Besides, KW can restructure so his cap number is $2 or $3 million. We can keep him as our #3 & Bryant Johnson as our 4th.
Is Jacoby cut or traded in this scenario?
As far as Mario...I think he'll be back and I think that this is all much ado about nothing. Manufactured drama.
Unless Bob McNair does something that he is not known for doing, he will hold on to Mario until it is just not feasible to do so.
just to get it on record (like I really need to) if they sign Mario to a big contract and we make wholesale changes to accommodate him it will set this Franchise back 3 yrs at least.
If Mario was a heart and soul player then I would maybe do it. Mario is a good guy but he is nowhere near the heart of the d.
I don't see even RS making that big a bone headed decision.
Blow this team up and risk being able to sign key players next year, sorry don't see it UNLESS no one wants him and we get him for say $24 mill 4 hrs and I really don't see that happening.
If Mario was a heart and soul player then I would maybe do it. Mario is a good guy but he is nowhere near the heart of the d.
I don't see even RS making that big a bone headed decision.
Blow this team up and risk being able to sign key players next year, sorry don't see it UNLESS no one wants him and we get him for say $24 mill 4 hrs and I really don't see that happening.
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TexCanada
All Pro
I don't think anybody here wants to sign him to whatever contract he wants. It is going to have to be a deal that works for both sides, and that isn't an unreachable goal.
Mario has a lot of value for this team considering that he can play 2 positions really well for us. If we lost Mario we would have to go out and get an OLB and a DE to replace him. That could be done through the draft or FA, but it will definitely be a downgrade at those spots while also taking up an extra roster spot.
How do you measure this? How will we know if you're right or wrong?
I think, you've been setting up a "Mario or anyone" scenario in your mind that nothing we do, short of cutting Mario makes sense.
You want a WR2, you want another CB.... if we don't get those positions, we've failed in your mind.. even though the team may not see those as the needs we see.
We spread the ball around pretty well, I doubt we'll have two 1000 yard receivers anytime soon. OD has always been our 2nd receiving threat. We may draft the next Andre two seasons from now.... an Aj Green, a Calvin Johnson, or pick up a Victor Cruz in UDFA. So who knows how important it is for the Texans' to get Andre's replacement on our roster.
Don't get me wrong, I'd like to get a new WR on our roster.
Again, we didn't have the cap room to sign Asomugha last year, much less Jjo & Manning... but we did.
If we go into next season with Myers, Foster, Mario & a new WR2... how is that setting us back 3 years if we only lose Jacoby, KDub, & Jason Allen?
badboy
Hall of Fame
I think both Bob McNair & Wade Phillips will play a big part in re-signing Mario to a reasonable contract @ about $8m avg per year but with first two prob around 3-5m. I think less effort will be put towards Foster (and I really like the guy). Kubes will say Tate will step up in his 2nd year of actual play & the tag (1st & 3rd as I understand) will give us an out. I would love to have top 15 picks in those rounds.
Not sure what you are saying? Cap first 2 years for Mario 3-5 mill. Please explain in more detail if this is what you are saying. thanks
Basically bend over backwards for Mario and play hardball with Foster is that what you are saying? Mario wasn't even on the field at the end. Foster was the key player on offense.
Maybe McNair mucks things up but I hope Smith comes through.
Oh yeah we need 2wr not 1.
I think it will be easy to see failure in the Mario deal. Mario doesn't start for some reason. We are unable to sign some of our key players.
How do determine if Mario deal is a success?
We're paying Rick Smith & some other dude to manage the cap.
They'll get Mario & Arian & Myers & a 2WR, if that's what we want to do.
They'll get Mario & Arian & Myers & a 2WR, if that's what we want to do.
I'd love to see Mario in a true DL rotation. I know people gripe about his injuries through the years, but he takes almost every snap when he's healthy.... & that can't be good for your health.
Jamison, by the way, looks like excellent depth on the DL, he & Bullman can still get pressure while allowing JjWatt & Antonio to take a breather.
badboy
Hall of Fame
I did not know he or Mario had been tagged with anything yet?
he does look really small (compared to his usual size) in that pic, but i assume that is from being unable to workout like normal. Hard to lift weights when you torn your chest muscles.
Dutchrudder
Hall of Fame
I saw Mario at PF Changs a few weeks ago and he looked like huge.
Goldensilence
hipster elite
I just don't see those numbers panning out. I think the best we could hope for is a contract close to John Abraham and Trent Cole's numbers.
With the league turning pass happy I expect the value of a guy who could can get after the QB consistently to jump even more. I think both him and his agent know how much he's going to score on the FA market and at worst he could be tagged for a one year huge payday.
I keep seeing these posts saying sign him to a long term deal and we'll be able to make it more cap friendly. I'm just not sure its the case, I have a feeling on face value it sounds nice but reality will be different.
badboy
Hall of Fame
Yeah, offer Mario a long term deal with $20-25m upfront that is prorated, then set his base salary at $3-5m first 2-3 years; $3m + $4-5 prorated bonus= 7-8m each for years 1&2 puts him way under the current cap hit & allows you to raise his cap hit later years when TV deal comes on. You then keep or trade him as you like and still initially clear millions to use on FA.
It is not about bending over for anyone or saying one player is much better than the other. It is possible that a healthy Mario could have had 20 sacks as he would have rarely came off field. I think it is about doing best for team. I think both players have about the same shelf life remaining although it is different to give a hit than receive one imo. I think Foster projects a better scenario to recoup draft picks than Williams. While both have backups that should succeed next year in Barwin & Tate, I think RBs are easier to find than DEs or 3-4 OLBs. I am a huge fan of Foster & think both will be on team next year. I'd play hardball with both & hopefully get both at great deals.
I agree we need two WRs but not certain yet where we get them.
Dutchrudder
Hall of Fame
I don't know where exactly it was discussed, but ChampionTexan pointed it out to me the other day that in the new CBA, RFA tags (which applies to Foster) have a max tender of just a 1st round pick. No more 1st and 3rd for RFAs. That puts tendering Foster in jeopardy, as a 1st isn't much to give up for a team like the 49ers. However it does come with a right of first refusal.
Non-exclusive franchise tender is worth two 1sts if the player is tagged and signed by another team.
badboy
Hall of Fame
S.O.D. is Chris Olsen. He's the cap guru that got us out of all those dead money contracts.
badboy
Hall of Fame
It worked with Mario when he first signed and more recently with Demeco and AJ. You should remember the agent looks at two things basically A. over all dollar amount as he uses that to advertise his services to potential new customers even if the player often does not get 100% of the years B. and most important to player is money quickly into his hands and that is thru upfront bonus and guaranteed money.
My numbers earlier are for the base salary only not including bonus. Mario could get $3m, $5m and in third year jump to 12m for example as 2013 is the beginning of television extention.
badboy
Hall of Fame
Thanks, I thought it was two 1sts but saw another poster said CBA states 1 & 3. WHen I get time I'll research my copy. i want to have that staright in my mind. Regardless of what we tag Foster or Mario, we can negotiate less with another team.
GuerillaBlack
Hall of Fame
hmmm.... I suspect he could have bought this one by trading in his 2006 orange one plus last year's money.
Speaking of Mario and cars, did you see this...?
Mario donates five Camaros to HPD
Beware of these stealth cops on the freeway.
Dutchrudder
Hall of Fame
hmmm.... I suspect he could have bought this one by trading in his 2006 orange one plus last year's money.
Speaking of Mario and cars, did you see this...?
Mario donates five Camaros to HPD
That's the stupidest donation I have ever heard of. Why would you help the cops like that? Those cars won't save anyone's life, nor help them do their job any better than the cars our tax dollars purchased. He could have set up a scholarship fund for poor kids who are good students, or donate to something like Doctors Without Borders that saves people's lives daily through medicine, vaccines, food and clean water. Instead he's helping the city give out more traffic tickets. Whoopty doo...
Jaysol
3rd String Rook
He probably got a couple speeding tickets and this was a way of preventing any future tickets.
Dutchrudder
Hall of Fame
Then do what everyone else does and donate to the 100 club! Although, he might not want to put the stickers on his Ferrari...
I do agree the money could have served the greater good elsewhere but it is HIS money, I'm not Obama so I don't care to dictate WHERE he spends it. Even though I hate tht he helped add to the evil that are stealth cops.
For that price tag he could just get a lawyer to get them dropped, if he wanted to get out of tickets.
I know if my bank account were at his level (or even close) I would have a lawyer on stand by to cover my one ticket-able vice...... speeding. Can't say I'd buy a Ferrari though, I'll take the rumble and looks of good ole fashioned American muscle over an overpriced midlife crisis any day.
For that price tag he could just get a lawyer to get them dropped, if he wanted to get out of tickets.
I know if my bank account were at his level (or even close) I would have a lawyer on stand by to cover my one ticket-able vice...... speeding. Can't say I'd buy a Ferrari though, I'll take the rumble and looks of good ole fashioned American muscle over an overpriced midlife crisis any day.
TexCanada
All Pro
We should be able to get something done here. With the cap likely going up in after next season it will make him a more trade-able asset even if it becomes impossible to re-sign the rest of our own FAs. Keeping him here for one more year and then trading him for some picks is a much better option then just letting him walk right now.
SAMURAITEXAN
All Pro
Stickers on Mario's black car? That a Lamborghini. But, he may have Ferrari as well. He has enough money to own both.
Dutchrudder
Hall of Fame
I just wanted to point out how ridiculous this is given that he's part of a defense nicknamed Bulls on Parade.
How do you plan on keeping him one more year, then trading him? We would have to franchise him (that'll cost between $16M & $22M for one year). If we don't want that $22M to hit our cap, we'll have to trade him this year, as next year we'll be in the same situation as we are now, except I believe the new CBA doesn't allow us to franchise him again.
Also consider "they" are saying we are already $20M over the "projected" 2012 cap, we still need to sign Myers, Brisiel, & Arian.
SAMURAITEXAN
All Pro
No post pushed wrong key. Mods, please delete.
TexCanada
All Pro
By signing him to a long-term contract. His cap hit this previous season was huge, so we could presumably retain him and actually lower his hit by a pretty considerable margin. Even if it is more then we want to pay him, and more then we can afford in the future, signing him to a longer contract will give us more options then we have now. Rick Smith would just have to make sure he doesn't backload it so much that his contract is un-moveable.
I'm sure there would be a couple of teams willing to trade a pick or two for him after next season as long as his contract isn't completely outrageous. Plus, when the cap goes up after next season, Mario's contract will seem a little more reasonable for potential suitors.
Right, that's the only way. I would have thought his agent wouldn't allow a contract with no signing bonus. It is the prorated portion that makes a player untradeable.
But, his rookie deal was with no bonus, which was probably why they didn't renegotiate this past off-season; Most likely Mario's people felt it was money earned.
I also just looked over the details of AP's 7 year $100M contract. No bonus. About $36M guaranteed though.
Considerable? His salary was $14 Million. I've heard rumor of his cap number being as high as $17Million.
What are you thinking as a "good" number?
As long as Mario is willing to re-do his contract with his new team, it shouldn't be a problem. Any team desperate enough to trade for Mario, rather than letting him hit FA would probably offer him a large contract anyway.
I don't understand. If he's worth a quality pick or two in upcoming drafts, why is he not good enough for us?
TexCanada
All Pro
He is plenty good enough for us and I would love to see him play his whole career here. I was just imagining the scenario where we are unable to keep all of our FAs over the next few years. That has been the biggest argument for those saying we should let him walk, and I'm saying our worst case scenario should be keeping him for one more year and then trading him.
http://www.profootballweekly.com/2012/01/22/what-will-texans-do-with-mario-williams
This is weekly not talk.
This is weekly not talk.
Maybe.
Then again, maybe not spending money on these cars allowed HPD to keep a couple more officers on the street and not lay them off. And those cops who are still around maybe prevent a mugging or robbery. Or maybe these new "hot rods" run down a drunk driver or three and keep that person from killing someone on the road. So this donation could save someone's life.
And if you're not a speeder or drunk driver, what do you have to worry about? They won't be used to stop you...
Jaysol
3rd String Rook
but i am a speeder!
Then I recommend you make an investment in some of the most up-to-date radar detecting technology
...or perhaps purchasing a vehicle with a minimal radar signature
Blake
MMQB
They havent. I was just pointing out that the highest tender is a 1st, not a 1st and 3rd.
TexCanada
All Pro
I think it has been generally agreed upon that our options for Mario this off-season are to either sign him long term or let him walk.
The idea of great picks for Mario was always people looking at the exception and stating it like the rule. There have only been a handful of tag and trade situation since the NFL went to some version of the current system. Is Mario close enough to a Jared Allen player where it is silly discuss? Yes he is making it worth of thnking about a possibility, but expectation that it absolutely should happen is the only thing unrealistic.
badboy
Hall of Fame
Here is where I am not sure I agree with you CBA Article 8 page 34 Section 2 says:
Section 2. Negotiating Rights of Players with Less Than Three Accrued Seasons:
Any Veteran with less than three Accrued Seasons whose contract has expired may
negotiate or sign a Player Contract only with his Prior Club, if before the first day of the
League Year after the expiration of his contract, his Prior Club tenders the player a one
year Player Contract with a Paragraph 5 Salary of at least the Minimum Active/Inactive
List Salary applicable to that player. A player receiving such a Tender shall be known as
an "Exclusive Rights Player." If the Prior Club has not by that date made the Required
Tender or later withdraws such Tender, the player shall be completely free to negotiate
and sign a Player Contract with any Club, and any Club shall be completely free to negotiate
and sign a Player Contract with such player, without any penalty or restriction,
including, but not limited to, Draft Choice Compensation between Clubs or First Refusal
Rights of any kind, or any signing period.