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Manziel

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infantrycak said:
Carry on with your "it's McNair" as you will inevitably do anyway no matter how ignorant.
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I don't know about ignorance. I believe reality is the word you were looking for. Denial is the word to describe believing that 79-113 , .411 is successful and a 2-14 team w/ the 1st RD draft pick and almost no salary cap room is a Super Bowl competitive team.

I don't think ignorance is involved in the Texans performance. I believe it's more of a direct result from being ill advised, misguided and misinformed.

Calling people ignorant is bullying......Carry On!
 
Texian said:
I don't know about ignorance. I believe reality is the word you were looking for. Denial is the word to describe believing that 79-113 , .411 is successful and a 2-14 team w/ the 1st RD draft pick and almost no salary cap room is a Super Bowl competitive team.

I don't think ignorance is involved in the Texans performance. I believe it's more of a direct result from being ill advised, misguided and misinformed.

Calling people ignorant is bullying......Carry On!
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:bunpan::bunpan::bunpan::bunpan::bunpan::bunpan:
 
Texian said:
Concerned about you Cak, you're not making sense.
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Your reply came out of leftfield, so he was referring to this generally well-known internet meme:

PancakeRabbit.jpg
 
Mr teX said:
It's a fad and the bolded is why. As much as I like Wilson as a qb, He & Kaepernick probably wouldn't have been leading their respective teams anywhere much less the playoffs & SB playing the way they've played as of late. Basically, they'd look like RG3 did this past year if they didn't have their defenses to rely on...i.e. sporadic.

A qb's mobility is meant to be used like table salt. A little bit here and there to extend a play & move the chains is ok & can even enhance things..Too much of it more often than not is bad for the qb's health and for his team's offense. This is why you saw Kaepernick fall off in the 2nd half yesterday. Dude had a 120 yds rushing in the 1st half but in the 2nd half, the Seahawks made a concerted effort to keep him in the pocket. & when he could no longer run he started doing his Matt Schaub impression with all the TO's.

Wilson also had a number of WTF plays where he was running around behind the LOS & did his best Case Keenum impression taking 20 yard sacks & intentional grounding penalties.

Meanwhile, you've got 38 yo Manning destroying defenses to the tune of 400 yds & 2 TD's hardly moving at all. It just goes to show you that the most effective way to play qb in this league will always be standing in the pocket & going through your progressions. The ball moves quicker in the air than on the ground.
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You could say the same thing about Brady. Where would he have been earlier in without those NE defenses? We know he is all pocket. Too early to finish writing the story on the mobile QBs. Manning is also a legend. Hard to compare others to him.
 
Dutchrudder said:
Your reply came out of leftfield, so he was referring to this generally well-known internet meme:

PancakeRabbit.jpg
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In a discussion and debate, when your adversary or opponent resorts to rabbits and pancakes, at that point you pretty much know that you have won the argument hands down.

Which makes me wonder if Cak is Bi Polar and has not been taking his meds today.
 
I see Manziel being called an instinctive player, how he has great vision and sees the whole field.

These are great things, but do you think he has the discipline to go through his reads and work through his progressions?

Is he impulsive, impatient, undisciplined and if so can you and would you want to coach it out of him?
 
Texian said:
In a discussion and debate, when your adversary or opponent resorts to rabbits and pancakes, at that point you pretty much know that you have won the argument hands down.

Which makes me wonder if Cak is Bi Polar and has not been taking his meds today.
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weren't you referring to bullying before mate?

also when you don't reply or "resort" to rabbits and pancakes maybe its about not caring enough to respond because some people can't hold down a civil debate ... so whats the point
 
Playoffs said:
QnDcKxe.gif
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This gif always brings a little pain with it, because if our defense wasn't so damned ****ty we could have won this game from this point on.
But I think I'll never forget what happened in the stands during this play. Kyle Field erupted and it felt like the world was about to end the way people were screaming and jumping up and down in the stands.
 
kiwitexansfan said:
I see Manziel being called an instinctive player, how he has great vision and sees the whole field.

These are great things, but do you think he has the discipline to go through his reads and work through his progressions?

Is he impulsive, impatient, undisciplined and if so can you and would you want to coach it out of him?
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he has certainly improved in this regard over the last year. My question on manziel isn't necessarily what is his ceiling going to be in the NFL but more specifically what is his ceiling at becoming a pocket passer.

His probably not going to become a brady or manning type pocket passer but could he develop that part of his game enough to the extent of lets say a romo or ryan. That way his other positive skills will elevate him further.
 
aussie_texan said:
he has certainly improved in this regard over the last year. My question on manziel isn't necessarily what is his ceiling going to be in the NFL but more specifically what is his ceiling at becoming a pocket passer.

His probably not going to become a brady or manning type pocket passer but could he develop that part of his game enough to the extent of lets say a romo or ryan. That way his other positive skills will elevate him further.
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I think the question is how do you improve the player without eliminating the special skills? Does making him a conventional pocket passer also eliminate his ability to create positive plays among the chaos? It's a legitimate concern. To some extent, I think that happened with Case last year.
 
Marshall said:
I think the question is how do you improve the player without eliminating the special skills? Does making him a conventional pocket passer also eliminate his ability to create positive plays among the chaos? It's a legitimate concern. To some extent, I think that happened with Case last year.
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thats a good point. off the top of my head you, you would have to allow for the players "natural" skills to shine. Build the scheme around him and look to develop those other skills. Much like washington did in RG3s first year and what the panthers are doing with Newton.

The offence will be vastly different whether we get manziel or TB/BB.
My belief is you must construct your team with the players you have not force them into different holes.
 
htownfan32 said:
This gif always brings a little pain with it, because if our defense wasn't so damned ****ty we could have won this game from this point on.
But I think I'll never forget what happened in the stands during this play. Kyle Field erupted and it felt like the world was about to end the way people were screaming and jumping up and down in the stands.
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My throat hurt so much after that game, also that was probably the loudest I ever heard Kyle field, that second that Evans shed the tackle it went from quite to deafening. We only ran out of time dammit...
 
matts290 said:
I guess what I am asking is this whole dual threat QB era just a fad and a mirage? Or are these guys really paving the way for players like Manziel to come in and have long successful careers in the NFL?
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I think it's still up in the air a bit. Many folks are worried after watching RG3 get injured repeatedly and thinking it's just a question of when (not if) the same thing will happen to CK and RW.

kiwitexansfan said:
I see Manziel being called an instinctive player, how he has great vision and sees the whole field.

These are great things, but do you think he has the discipline to go through his reads and work through his progressions?

Is he impulsive, impatient, undisciplined and if so can you and would you want to coach it out of him?
Click to expand...

Marshall said:
I think the question is how do you improve the player without eliminating the special skills? Does making him a conventional pocket passer also eliminate his ability to create positive plays among the chaos? It's a legitimate concern. To some extent, I think that happened with Case last year.
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Yep, that's the concern. The question with JM is how much you lose by keeping him behind LoS. Lots of his 'special' plays came with his feet, without rushing for a single yard. He made great strides this year which shows he's at least 'coachable'.
 
disaacks3 said:
I think it's still up in the air a bit. Many folks are worried after watching RG3 get injured repeatedly and thinking it's just a question of when (not if) the same thing will happen to CK and RW.
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For guys like CK, It is a question of when...but as i'm sure you know, there's a difference between a passing qb who can run & a running qb who can pass a little bit. Despite his "strides" passing the ball this past year, JFF still falls in the latter for me. & even though he didn't take off & run as much this past year, you could tell he was itching to...The Duke play is proof of that. Very few times throughout this season did he look comfortable just sitting in the pocket...he always had to be moving...As i watched him, it kinda tells me he watches the rush too much...can't do that in the NFL..gotta be focused on your progressions downfield...
 
If u watch just the lsu, that's a recipe for disaster for manziel. Much like Case, he can't see or find passing lanes when teams come up the middle. His instincts tell him to retreat backwards or move outside vs navigation inside the pocket. Not only that, he gets claustophobic when teams "sugar" rush him. When the rush stays discipline and keeps him in the pocket, he can't see. Not only that,he's played in a 1st read system. You never see his head move after the 1st read until he's outside the pocket.

I like jff a lot as a college player, I wouldn't touch the guy in the 1st or 2nd rd. The interview process for him will be critical in terms of his commitment to football. His chalkboard will be a 0 because of the joke offense and his improv he performed a lot. People will have him from 1st rd to undraftable.
 
leebigeztx said:
If u watch just the lsu, that's a recipe for disaster for manziel. Much like Case, he can't see or find passing lanes when teams come up the middle. His instincts tell him to retreat backwards or move outside vs navigation inside the pocket. Not only that, he gets claustophobic when teams "sugar" rush him. When the rush stays discipline and keeps him in the pocket, he can't see. Not only that,he's played in a 1st read system. You never see his head move after the 1st read until he's outside the pocket.

I like jff a lot as a college player, I wouldn't touch the guy in the 1st or 2nd rd. The interview process for him will be critical in terms of his commitment to football. His chalkboard will be a 0 because of the joke offense and his improv he performed a lot. People will have him from 1st rd to undraftable.
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So lets discount the fact the young man was playing injured, in this game, and also the Missouri game. Shoulder and throwing hand. I don't suggest he be taken with the first pick, I'm on record for a trade, but if I'm going to pick a QB out of any of the four mentioned? It's Manziel by a wide margin.
 
leebigeztx said:
Not only that,he's played in a 1st read system. You never see his head move after the 1st read until he's outside the pocket.
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You have a link proving this? Because I'm pretty sure you're wrong. I've watched scouting reports on him showing video of him going through his progressions.
 
leebigeztx said:
If u watch just the lsu, that's a recipe for disaster for manziel. Much like Case, he can't see or find passing lanes when teams come up the middle. His instincts tell him to retreat backwards or move outside vs navigation inside the pocket. Not only that, he gets claustophobic when teams "sugar" rush him. When the rush stays discipline and keeps him in the pocket, he can't see. Not only that,he's played in a 1st read system. You never see his head move after the 1st read until he's outside the pocket.

I like jff a lot as a college player, I wouldn't touch the guy in the 1st or 2nd rd. The interview process for him will be critical in terms of his commitment to football. His chalkboard will be a 0 because of the joke offense and his improv he performed a lot. People will have him from 1st rd to undraftable.
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I agree with this. I'd be hopeful if we took manziel, but I think it'd be a mistake.

Really, I don't think there's much chance we take him anyways. I think bridgewater is going to be the pick at 1.1.
 
I would love for Manziel to be a Texan but with that said he doesn't have a snow balls chance in hell of being a Texan. Not because of his talents, but b/c he is not a "Team" guy, he is a "Me" guy.

To clarify I don't mean that he puts himself first or that he is a bad teammate, it's his off the field persona. He is quickly becoming the type of media circus that Tebow was and not something our new coach will embrace or tolerate.

Again, I like Manziel, I would love to see him become a Texan, but he puts, fair or not, the spot light on himself and shines it away from the team. And this is also the very reason why Clowney will not be a Texan.

I fully expect either Bridgewater or Bortles to be drafted #1 overall.
 
TEXANRED said:
I would love for Manziel to be a Texan but with that said he doesn't have a snow balls chance in hell of being a Texan. Not because of his talents, but b/c he is not a "Team" guy, he is a "Me" guy.

To clarify I don't mean that he puts himself first or that he is a bad teammate, it's his off the field persona. He is quickly becoming the type of media circus that Tebow was and not something our new coach will embrace or tolerate.

Again, I like Manziel, I would love to see him become a Texan, but he puts, fair or not, the spot light on himself and shines it away from the team. And this is also the very reason why Clowney will not be a Texan.

I fully expect either Bridgewater or Bortles to be drafted #1 overall.
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Since the season started name one thing he has done to "put the spotlight on himself".
 
mussop said:
You have a link proving this? Because I'm pretty sure you're wrong. I've watched scouting reports on him showing video of him going through his progressions.
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Don't listen to anything leebigeztx says, he just makes claims and when people point out where his observations were wrong he'll refuse to admit it. See: Clowney got 'handled' by Tiny Richardson in 2013 and you couldn't convince him otherwise after a full tape breakdown.
 
Six Senior Bowl defenders give the scouting report on facing Johnny Manziel
MOBILE, Ala. — We polled six SEC players who have had a good look at Texas A&M quarterback Johnny Manziel over the past two seasons, and they roundly see him as a top talent whose skills should translate in the NFL as he prepares for May's draft.

Among the opinions of him we gathered here at the Senior Bowl, here’s a sample of them:

What stood out the most about facing Johnny Manziel?

Auburn DE Dee Ford: "Toughest player I ever faced. He’s a playmaker. He’s a true competitor."

Vanderbilt S Kenny Ladler: "I think he’s just unorthodox. He creates his own plays, he knows how to manage his offense well and he makes plays that normal quarterbacks usually don’t make."

Arkansas DE Chris Smith: "The toughest, most physical offensive line we faced this year was Texas A&M, and those guys — Jake Matthews, especially — did such a good job protecting for [Manziel]. But he’s a playmaker, man. There’s no two ways about it. A lot of people talk bad about him, but he’s got it. He’s got eyes in the back of his head. Every time I got close to him, I felt like he got away at the last second. I sacked him one time, but I swear it felt like it took 15 or 20 seconds to get to him. That’s the thing about him: He can just keep plays alive. He’s going to be really good at the next level."

Alabama LB Adrian Hubbard: "Everybody can be beat, but he’s a great player and he does what he does well within their system. It’s built for him to [improvise] and make plays on the run. I don’t know how that will work [in the NFL], but he’s tough and competitive."

LSU S Craig Loston: "He’s a great college player. We did a great job against him twice [in 2012 and 2013]. We defended him as well as anyone, I think. I don’t know if he’ll make a great pro because I am not paid to make those decisions, but he has skill."

Auburn CB Chris Davis: "Man, why are you asking me about Johnny Manziel? [laughs] No, he’s a great player, a truly great player."

What was your team's defensive gameplan to try to stop him?

Ford: "We just went...
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kiwitexansfan said:
Do you think that JFF, rah rah college brand enthusiasm and leadership translates to the pros, or does his leadership have deeper aspects?
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Sure, if it's honest and not contrived. Brett Favre played and celebrated like a kid throughout his career. Tim Tebow turned 1-4 Broncos into a playoff team.
 
mussop said:
You have a link proving this? Because I'm pretty sure you're wrong. I've watched scouting reports on him showing video of him going through his progressions.
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You can see him working thru them sometimes...most other times though he's either locking in or making it up as he goes......His games are littered with that...just too much improvisation that he's not gonna get away with in the NFL.

You know my feelings on Manziel..i just can't see how people still believe he's anything more than a 2nd rounder....at best. Aside from his athleticism & decent deep ball, nothing else he does is even remotely close to NFL qb caliber.
 
Playoffs said:
Six Senior Bowl defenders give the scouting report on facing Johnny Manziel



Sure, if it's honest and not contrived. Brett Favre played and celebrated like a kid throughout his career. Tim Tebow turned 1-4 Broncos into a playoff team.
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Those guys are all vying for the same thing..trying to get drafted as high as possible..I'm sure they all speak highly of each other to try & help each other's draft stock as much as possible.....unless they're *******s. I'm sure there's respect there for him as a player, but you gotta take these kinds of articles with a grain of salt.
 
Mr teX said:
Those guys are all vying for the same thing..trying to get drafted as high as possible..I'm sure they all speak highly of each other to try & help each other's draft stock as much as possible.....unless they're *******s. I'm sure there's respect there for him as a player, but you gotta take these kinds of articles with a grain of salt.
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I feel the same way about anything you post on Manziel. :tiphat:
 
Mr teX said:
You can see him working thru them sometimes...most other times though he's either locking in or making it up as he goes......His games are littered with that...just too much improvisation that he's not gonna get away with in the NFL.

You know my feelings on Manziel..i just can't see how people still believe he's anything more than a 2nd rounder....at best. Aside from his athleticism & decent deep ball, nothing else he does is even remotely close to NFL qb caliber.
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In my eyes the thing that makes him worthy of a first round grade is that he has shown at one time or another that he can do everything very well. We all know about his athleticism and playmaking ability with his feet, but he also has shown flashes of great mechanics, footwork, ability to make every throw, super accuracy and touch on the ball. He just isn't consistent with many of these things, the biggest being standing in the pocket and stepping up to deliver throws. He has shown that he can do it, jut not on a consistent enough basis. So I believe that since he has displayed the ability to improve on the things he lacks, it makes him worthy of a first round grade if a team feels they can coach him out of his bad habits.
 
TEXANRED said:
I would love for Manziel to be a Texan but with that said he doesn't have a snow balls chance in hell of being a Texan. Not because of his talents, but b/c he is not a "Team" guy, he is a "Me" guy.

To clarify I don't mean that he puts himself first or that he is a bad teammate, it's his off the field persona. He is quickly becoming the type of media circus that Tebow was and not something our new coach will embrace or tolerate.

Again, I like Manziel, I would love to see him become a Texan, but he puts, fair or not, the spot light on himself and shines it away from the team. And this is also the very reason why Clowney will not be a Texan.

I fully expect either Bridgewater or Bortles to be drafted #1 overall.
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IMO, none of that matters. If O'Brien thinks Manziel is the guy, he'll be the pick.
 
matts290 said:
In my eyes the thing that makes him worthy of a first round grade is that he has shown at one time or another that he can do everything very well. We all know about his athleticism and playmaking ability with his feet, but he also has shown flashes of great mechanics, footwork, ability to make every throw, super accuracy and touch on the ball. He just isn't consistent with many of these things, the biggest being standing in the pocket and stepping up to deliver throws. He has shown that he can do it, jut not on a consistent enough basis. So I believe that since he has displayed the ability to improve on the things he lacks, it makes him worthy of a first round grade if a team feels they can coach him out of his bad habits.
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You can say the same about any number of guys in the draft every year with great tools to work with...This year that would be:

Logan Thomas
Tajh Boyd
David Fales
AJ McCarron

None of those guys however are mentioned as being potential 1st rounders...It's just the hype machine working overtime...
 
Mr teX said:
You can say the same about any number of guys in the draft every year with great tools to work with...This year that would be:

Logan Thomas
Tajh Boyd
David Fales
AJ McCarron

None of those guys however are mentioned as being potential 1st rounders...It's just the hype machine working overtime...
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Logan Thomas has great physical tools sure, but he is as raw as they come, Manziel is far more refined as a passer than Logan Thomas.

Taj Boyd hasn't never shown anything extraordinary, he regressed this passed year and has poor natural accuracy and is the same heights as Manziel but much slower.

David Fales is not a good passer, plain and simple. There is things you can teach and then there is natural abilities you must have when throwing the pigskin and he just doesn't have near the pedigree that Manziel does.

AJ McCarron is a well rounded guy, but he doesn't really excel in any aspect of the game and has a below average arm.

Manziel has displayed far more passing ability then any of these guys. If you watch him closely and thoroughly you will see just how gifted of a QB he is, some of the throws he made against Alabama (both years) are as good as any throws I have ever seen. Add in the fact that he has elite athleticism and that is what makes him a 1st round prospect. However he puts a lot of bad things on tape too; throwing off his back foot, sidearming, throwing across his body unnecessarily, getting skiddish against the blitz, running too soon and too often. But these are all things that are theoretically curable, and since he has shown the ability to correct these habits at times, a team may believe they can polish him.

Hate all you want. I won't deny that he is a risk, and has a lot of bad habits that will get him into trouble if he does not correct them at the next level. But to deny the God given talent that this guy has a football player and quarterback is just foolish.
 
You wouldn't know "right" if it ran you over with a semi. So far, you're a force of one when it comes to folks who didn't even think Manziel was a great collegiate player.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
 
matts290 said:
Logan Thomas has great physical tools sure, but he is as raw as they come, Manziel is far more refined as a passer than Logan Thomas.

Taj Boyd hasn't never shown anything extraordinary, he regressed this passed year and has poor natural accuracy and is the same heights as Manziel but much slower.

David Fales is not a good passer, plain and simple. There is things you can teach and then there is natural abilities you must have when throwing the pigskin and he just doesn't have near the pedigree that Manziel does.

AJ McCarron is a well rounded guy, but he doesn't really excel in any aspect of the game and has a below average arm.

Manziel has displayed far more passing ability then any of these guys. If you watch him closely and thoroughly you will see just how gifted of a QB he is, some of the throws he made against Alabama (both years) are as good as any throws I have ever seen. Add in the fact that he has elite athleticism and that is what makes him a 1st round prospect. However he puts a lot of bad things on tape too; throwing off his back foot, sidearming, throwing across his body unnecessarily, getting skiddish against the blitz, running too soon and too often. But these are all things that are theoretically curable, and since he has shown the ability to correct these habits at times, a team may believe they can polish him.

Hate all you want. I won't deny that he is a risk, and has a lot of bad habits that will get him into trouble if he does not correct them at the next level. But to deny the God given talent that this guy has a football player and quarterback is just foolish.
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you don't "correct" something "at times". You either do it correctly all the time or you don't. And too many times his bad habits come out when the heat is on or when things aren't perfect for him...That's not a good tendency to have.

And just as easily as you can point to 2 games against solid competition in Bama where he made a number of good throws, i can point to the 2 LSU games where he looked completely overmatched at times in those games..
 
disaacks3 said:
You wouldn't know "right" if it ran you over with a semi. So far, you're a force of one when it comes to folks who didn't even think Manziel was a great collegiate player.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
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Yeah..you'll find out soon enough uncle nate..
 
Stemp said:
And if manziel tears it you still wont come on and admit you were wrong
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Lol...dude i don't know any of you in person & like everyone in this world I've been wrong before..(JJ Watt...:vincepalm:)....if he comes in and tears it up, i'll be right here to eat my crow......Hell i might even make a thread for it............


Just don't expect that until he's 3 years in........
.
.
.
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i'm not wrong though.
 
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