Mr teX
Hall of Fame
never said he sucks...just that he aint as good as everyone thinks is all.
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Manziel
- Thread starter Wolf
- Start date
- Status
never said he sucks...just that he aint as good as everyone thinks is all.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
is he eligible for upcoming 2014 draft?
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
yep..redshirt sophomore i believe.
At the College Level, yes he is. If you can't see it, that's on you.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
At the College Level, yes he is. If you can't see it, that's on you.
Lol......
ok...2012Champs
Hall of Fame
At the College Level, yes he is. If you can't see it, that's on you.
You are missing it. MrTex judges Johnny's college performance by how that will translate into the NFL
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
I don't understand why people have an issue with that anyway....
Colleges use the NFL standard when they attempt to bring in 5 or 4 star recruits...which are guys poised to play on the next level b/c if they can bring those guys in it gives them a better chance at winning on the college level.
Recruits use the NFL standard at least in part when they decide on a school they want to play for b/c they want to measure themselves against the best players....players that are likely going to the NFL.
How many times have you heard Brent Musburger or some other announcer say "He's surely going to be playing on Sundays folks.."?
Hell, a large part of the reason wh the Big 6 conferences are held up on a pedestal apart from the other conferences & are given preference when it comes to TV time, BCS bowls and everything else is b/c of the sheer density of talent in those conferences relative to the smaller ones that's likely going to be playing on the next level.
So why shouldn't i look at him in the same light he's been looked at already by everyone else?
Plus, i'm an NFL guy anyway so....
Colleges use the NFL standard when they attempt to bring in 5 or 4 star recruits...which are guys poised to play on the next level b/c if they can bring those guys in it gives them a better chance at winning on the college level.
Recruits use the NFL standard at least in part when they decide on a school they want to play for b/c they want to measure themselves against the best players....players that are likely going to the NFL.
How many times have you heard Brent Musburger or some other announcer say "He's surely going to be playing on Sundays folks.."?
Hell, a large part of the reason wh the Big 6 conferences are held up on a pedestal apart from the other conferences & are given preference when it comes to TV time, BCS bowls and everything else is b/c of the sheer density of talent in those conferences relative to the smaller ones that's likely going to be playing on the next level.
So why shouldn't i look at him in the same light he's been looked at already by everyone else?
Plus, i'm an NFL guy anyway so....
2012Champs
Hall of Fame
Typically you judge someone's career by what they have done not what they may or may not do in their next career. Johnny has had a hell of a college career to date
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Ehh, yes and no. Yes, if there are no future plans or shot to play on a next level...No if the opposite. Clearly, he will have his shot.
What i find funny how people tend to lump a players' time at college playing sports as part of their "career" even though they're supposed to be amateur "student athletes".
Its also funny how it's only looked at as a "career" when the player has a good shot at going pro. You likely wont hear Kenny Mayne looking back at his time as a qb for UNLV as a career...
yet another reason why i look at it the way i do..
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
I actually thought he was gonna be good when i saw him at Tenn...but keep getting your panties in a wad over how I view players...makes me laugh actually that it hurts you that much that i don't think your boy is that good..
& its no more worthless than a guy winning the heisman & putting up monster stats all throughout college & then going on to be garbage in the NFL...
I know Manziel doesn't fit your crteria, but you've gotta admit JM is a great college football player.
Stemp
Brew Master
Nope. No one on A&M's team gets any credit.
http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101692&page=2
He's the definition of a hater.
2012Champs
Hall of Fame
Why wouldnt it be a career? College ball players are paid to do a job. Free education/room & board travel etc. Any other person yourself included would have that count as income. You can take the word career out though if that is your hang up. If he built an awesome tree house would you judge his quality of work by his ability to possibly build a swimming pool? Probably not. He is a pretty damn good college QB
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
I don't throw around the word "great" or "elite" very lightly....
People often confuse entertaining with being good or great..& I think this is the case with him.
He's got talent, but right now he's more entertaining from a football player standpoint than anything.
Aside from all the off the field crap, all the announcers talked about was how he worked with this qb guru to help with his footwork and other stuff. Well:
-He still throws off his back foot way too much
-His decision making still needs work
- He's still waaayyy too quick to run
-& of course all the off-field crap
he's got time, he's still young, but people going on suicide watch just b/c i don't think he's that good need to calm down...It's not like i can't change my mind if i see he has improved in the future.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Most of that is directed at your boy. Evans at 1st appears to be a bootleg Micheal Floyd...see how he's doing in the NFL...
In any event, you haven't heard me say anything else about any other player on your team...
Stemp
Brew Master
More like people calling you out for you hating and refusing to admit he guy is a great qb. You have this narrow box of what a great qb is anyone who doesn't fit into it is overrated. Your opinion is pretty much worthless and you have nothing to back up your view except dismissing any and all evidence you don't like. Stats don't matter. Production doesn't matter. Athleticism doesn't matter. Making incredible plays time and again doesn't matter. Winning doesn't matter. Nothing matters to you except your narrow view.
Stemp
Brew Master
Cause you are a hater. You've admitted it. Nothing Manziel does this year would change your mind. He could go 20 for 20 for 500 yards and not run once and you'd find an excuse as to why it doesn't matter and that he's not a great QB.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Lol......Is this Uncle Nate i'm chating with? Why does it matter to you so much what i think of him as a player? what do you have invested in this? my opinion is my opinion & yours is yours...deal with it.
There is no evidence except for his stats...& i've already showed you the disparity in those.
Production & stats are the same thing....but since you keep bringing it up, why do other qb's in similar systems' stats don't count when discussing how "great they were/are? I brought up Case Keenum earlier in this thread & folks damn near had a coronary.
Aside from that, how much of his "production" do you attribute to the system he's in?
....Don't even answer the above question b/c i already know what you're going to say "but.... but they played lesser competition." & by you saying that you are indirectly saying & judging him by the same NFL standard that i am......otherwise, everyone's stats should & would count the same no matter where & who they play against.
never said he wasn't athletic, but since when does that make you a great qb? Vick, VY, Tommie Frazier, Eric Crouch & a whole host of other college qb's produced great stats on the college level &...... were much more athletic than Manziel is...what did it prove on the next level? & these are guys who at least got their teams to National Championship games.
save your retort b/c you sound irrational......like a VY/reggie bush homer.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
My opinion as a hater is just as valid as yours as a worshipper....
2012Champs
Hall of Fame
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Both...
We all heard Archie Griffin or whoever that was in the background yelling "BOOMER!!" 87907 times when Sam Bradford finished up his Heisman speech...
& we all know the inherent bias they have towards offensive players relative to defensive guys....really biased towards qb's and rbs.
Why? b/c offensive guys' impact can be directly quantified through stats as opposed to defensive guys....There's a reason only 1 defensive guy has won the Heisman...that's b/c he played offense too.....:mariopalm:
Since there's usually only 2 candidates that really have a shot at winning anyway, We've also seen recently been able to see the map & number breakdowns of how these guys recieve their votes relative to regions where the votes come from.
From those maps you can see voters vote according to the player they are closest to or that they see the most....in other words, they get caught up in the hype just like fans do.
You add in conference biases & it's a wrap...Guys like Manti Te'o and that qb from Kansas State a few years back never really have chances to win it.
Dan B.
Hall of Fame
I tend to think he's going to have trouble at the NFL level myself. I think that he's a little bit reckless, and while that works in college an NFL secondary is going to make him pay. I also think that he's a little bit small to play as boldly as he does against NFL linebackers and escape injury. Finally I think that it's going to be difficult to keep him as isolated from the media when he's in the NFL. I know some are convinced that the negative stories this summer were just because ESPN hates A&M, but there's a reason that Sumlin keeps Manziel away from microphones. He's brash and controversial. Those same shady stories are gonna hit the papers even when he's no longer wearing an Aggie uniform. Sure, he could go to the Jets and become the next Joe Namath -- flipping the bird to reporters as he parties away every night with a different girl, wins the Super Bowl hung over, and flirts with the sideline reporter to celebrate. He could also very well end up getting chewed up by the jackals.
Not a worshiper or a hater. I do realize Manziel is a great college football player. My eyes tell me this.
Are you a lawyer? If not you should become one. The reason I ask this is because like most lawyers they can twist the facts so that people dont believe what they saw with their own eyes.
LOL
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
There's no twisting involved, its just seeing things for what they are and comparing it to what your frame of reference is. And my frame of reference is.......i've seen this before and i've seen it done better.
Its called an opinion, people can have as many of them as they want about as many things as they want....and here's the kicker...........some people's actually differ from one another........
......another beautiful thing about them is that noone can truly say that someone else's opinion is right or wrong about something.....
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
That is typically what a pro scout does.
I agree, Manziel has had a superlative college showing to date, due to being in the right offense at the right school, at the right time.
FirstTexansFan
The Unknown Fan
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
They're gonna take your teasip card if you continue this heresy
If Manziel were in the Big 12, I do not think he would have won the Heisman last year. That offense shook up the SEC, and Manziel played it perfectly.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
Chip Kelly wanted him @ Oregon but lost out to A&M so he had to settle for some guy named Marcus Mariota. I can imagine him being just as good if not better there. Oregon regularly beat Pete Carrol & Jim Harbough teams
mr. peebs
gig 'em
EllisUnit
Vote RED!!!
Hell no.......This guy has skill no doubt BUT the skill he has is the type that you can win with in college, but it does not translate to NFL success. Plus he is a cocky little bastard and i dont like his attitude.persona
Texian
Hall of Fame
A draftniks view:
Some of Manziel's on field evaluations are tainted by some of his off field shenanigans.
Manziel is a very good college player but he does have his flaws. Most notably is his propensity to run. This should be easy to correct. Manziel has one of the best OL in the country. Too many times while in the pocket with absolutely no pressure whatsoever Manziel will take off and run. It's like he has a clock in his head and regardless of the situation, when the clock ticks 3 seconds the alarm says run and Johnny almost always will. If Johnny can ever correct his propensity to run he will be an even better QB. Just my humble opinion.....
Some of Manziel's on field evaluations are tainted by some of his off field shenanigans.
Manziel is a very good college player but he does have his flaws. Most notably is his propensity to run. This should be easy to correct. Manziel has one of the best OL in the country. Too many times while in the pocket with absolutely no pressure whatsoever Manziel will take off and run. It's like he has a clock in his head and regardless of the situation, when the clock ticks 3 seconds the alarm says run and Johnny almost always will. If Johnny can ever correct his propensity to run he will be an even better QB. Just my humble opinion.....
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
This is where my problem with him ultimately lies. When your game as a qb is highly dependent on making things happen with your legs like his is, you've got a problem when you go to the next level simply b/c you wont be able to run away from pressure as easily up there as you did in college. Once that is curtailed, you become a different player. You see how RG3 looks now that he's unable to run.
And just looking at him as a pocket passer righ now, he's just not any better than any other qb who is better at pocket passing than he is right now.
Texian
Hall of Fame
I'm not sure Kubiak has ever coached a spread pistol hurry up offense. Kubiak has been doing what he has always been doing since he started coaching and that is WCO, the 3-5-7 step drop, 2 reads - primary WR intermediate, secondary WR short and if covered check down to the back and on occasion go deep.
Hater, LOL
Just sit back and enjoy the show.
Manziel is 20, you dont think his arm is going to get stronger? BTW, I'm hoping that the Texans dont pick Manziel.
To me this is a stupid complaint about Manziel. Manziel runs now because he can murder defenses with his feet. When he needs to make throws he does make throws. The one thing he'll have to adjust to is his extension of plays. Sometimes he tries to do a little too much, but at the same time this is what I think will make him really good at the next level. He just need to understand how much is too much and when to dial it back.
He's more accurate than a lot of QBs starting in the league now even though he plays in a wide open system. I've seem enough of him to see he can make all the throws though even in tight coverage. His biggest adjustment will be learning to trust his reads and throwing into tight windows of zone coverage similar to what Keenum has had to adjust to. He'd be great in this offense though IMO.
He's more accurate than a lot of QBs starting in the league now even though he plays in a wide open system. I've seem enough of him to see he can make all the throws though even in tight coverage. His biggest adjustment will be learning to trust his reads and throwing into tight windows of zone coverage similar to what Keenum has had to adjust to. He'd be great in this offense though IMO.
Texian
Hall of Fame
Nothing wrong with Manziel's arm, he has a Sunday arm, he's accurate, good TD to INT ratio shows a good decision makers on his passes. The problem lies with the clock in his head. It's 1 -2 -3 RUN! Regardless that his great OL has everyone blocked and there is absolutely no pressure , it's still 1 - 2 - 3 RUN! THAT doesn't play well on Sunday's but it is fixable. It's NOT like Tebow's windup and accuracy.
To me its nothing like Tebow even from a read standpoint. Manziel actually goes through his progressions despite what it looks like a lot of times. Case in point on that long TD to Evans it was reported last week Evans was his 3rd option. His still needs some polishing there like ever college QB does though. Tebow never showed any kind of ability to go through his progressions and throw the football in college in my view.
I didn't say anything about what you posted.
Matter if fact I said "in this offense". Kubiak calls plays based on his qb's strengths. He's said that before. And when he's had other qb's play with more mobility, he's called plays to use that.
I didn't say anything about any spread pistol stuff.
This offense has some easy reads. When it gets flowing, and the pa is working you get some huge play potential. Wide open receivers and wide open running lanes. This isn't the old Indy offense or the pats offense where the qb is making a bunch if tough reads and throws.
This offense is very qb friendly.
This offense is very qb friendly.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
aussie_texan
Veteran
it certainly would be interesting to see one of these "running" type QBs in our offence. off first glance i too think it would work really well
Young seemed to thrive in Gary's offense.
Young had the same run 1st tendencies that Manziel has.
Young had the same run 1st tendencies that Manziel has.
ubecool454
Veteran
In games where TAMU has a big lead...they should let Manziel play in the slot just to get some experience there since thats the only place he will be playing in the NFL. (Wes Welker)
b0ng
Bad Hombre
Yeah but Young set accuracy records for his passing while at BYU. He was both a great runner and a great thrower in college (and the pros).
Bulls on Parade
2017 Astros: Earn It!
Steve Young doesn't come to my mind at all when I think of Johnny Manziel. The comparisons may be valid based on run first tendencies, but Steve Young was a totally different signal caller and left-handed.
I would compare Johnny Manziel to somebody like Jeff Garcia. Similar size and athletic ability. People said Garcia wasn't good enough to play in the pros after being undrafted, but he ended up playing for seven NFL teams and was a four-time pro bowler.
Of course, Manziel is going to be a day one pick (late 1st or 2nd round).
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