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DW4 Traded to Cleveland

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Texansballer74 said:
Bull O’Brien was onboard with Watson style of play. He actually welcomed it. Said it in one of his pressers.
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Exactly. According to some posters, O'Brien didn't want to draft Watson. If O'Brien wasn't onboard with Watson's style of play, he would have made that an excuse to get rid of him. He would have whispered to his media buddies about Watson being "uncoachable" and not learning the offense.

Anyone who thinks O'Brien wasn't onboard with Watson's style of play should answer this simple question. With O'Brien's temper, stubbornness and control freak nature. Do you think he would sit passively by and let Watson continually ignore his play designs and progressions?

During his rookie season, Watson threw a TD pass and as he comes off the field, O'Brien tells him he was in the wrong formation. Watson was trying to explain that he thought the formation was based on the hash marks and O'Brien corrected him by saying, "sometimes he makes a play call off his gut feel and ignores the hash marks" Does that sound like someone who would let Watson ignore the progressions in the play design?
 
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The real story behind why Sam Darnold became Panthers QB instead of Deshaun Watson
By Scott Fowler
Updated September 22, 2021 3:45 PM

No matter how good your decision-making process is in the NFL, you also need great luck to have a shot at a memorable season.

Consider the strange case of the Carolina Panthers and Deshaun Watson.

If things had gone the way the Panthers wanted them to in late January, the Panthers would be the ones saddled with Watson and his 22-civil-lawsuit mess right now. Sam Darnold would either be playing for the New York Jets or for someone else entirely.

THE REST OF THE STORY
 
Mr teX said:
If you're cool with Mahomes' hero selfish ball, you should be cool with DW4's...period. There is no credible scenario you can point to that shows its cool for 1 guy to be making throws like this
View attachment 9063 anView attachment 9064d it being unacceptable for the other guy.

Your logic makes no sense & you've not shown any evidence to back up what you assert. More importantly, more credible football minds flat out disagree with you.
Click to expand...

Big difference between what Mahomes and your Perverted friend were doing.

But yes, Mahomes made a bad throw/decision. What's his Sept. TD/Int ratio? 30-1 in the last 3 seasons. What's your Perverted friends ratio and then we can get back to the regularly scheduled program of playing the Pro vs Pervert game.
 
Mr teX said:
I think Devlin & OB were the main guys responsible for why he played that way. Devlin for his **** coaching of the o-line & BoB for the guys he brought in for Devlin to coach (& for not firing him) & the type of offensive passing philosophy he wanted to implement...which is down the field attack mode. This is why our offense typically lived and died with WFV. When he was healthy, our offense looked really good most of the time. When he wasn't, we typically sputtered. This is b/c if WFV did nothing else, he blew the top off of defenses..which in turn created space for the guys underneath on those deep over routes BoB loved to run with Nuk. The problem with this philosophy however is that those deep all or nothing routes take time to develop, time DW4 didn't typically have behind the **** o-line he usually had. The other issue? WFV was always injured.
Click to expand...

Or it could be that he had to scramble because the dumb bleep couldn't learn to make protection calls after 4 yrs.

Just asking for a friend.
 
Earl34 said:
Exactly. According to some posters, O'Brien didn't want to draft Watson. If O'Brien wasn't onboard with Watson's style of play, he would have made that an excuse to get rid of him. He would have whispered to his media buddies about Watson being "uncoachable" and not learning the offense.

Anyone who thinks O'Brien wasn't onboard with Watson's style of play should answer this simple question. With O'Brien's temper, stubbornness and control freak nature. Do you think he would sit passively by and let Watson continually ignore his play designs and progressions?

During his rookie season, Watson threw a TD pass and as he comes off the field, O'Brien tells him he was in the wrong formation. Watson was trying to explain that he thought the formation was based on the hash marks and O'Brien corrected him by saying, "sometimes he makes a play call off his gut feel and ignores the hash marks" Does that sound like someone who would let Watson ignore the progressions in the play design?
Click to expand...

And BOB paid for this stance with his job, as it should be.
 
Earl34 said:
I agree with this point and certain series, quarters and even games they did use the short, quick game. But like many things they would go away from it. Instead of the defense taking it away, they would anticipate the defense taking it away.

My issue with Corrosion's point of view is it ignores the coaching and simply puts the W/L on the QB. Last time I checked, the QB gave input into his favorite plays, but it's the HC/OC who installs the weekly game plans and calls the plays. If the QB is holding the ball too long, you call plays to change his progressions. You call plays to make him read half the field. You reduce the number of option routes where he is holding the ball to see if the WRs are seeing the same thing he is seeing. I could go on and on.
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All of this and if he had just done something as simple as hitting the open receiver on the play that was called and learning how to do this consistently we wouldn't be having these discussions.

But he couldn't learn to do this and not only that but 4 yrs in and he still couldn't do it. Or I'm thinking after seeing his new watch/baby got back pics wouldn't learn to do it. (SMH)
 
thunderkyss said:
& maybe that's what Corrosion is saying. We knew the Texans couldn't run the ball. We knew the defense was porous. Watson should have known.

So why play the way he played? Was he being selfish?
Click to expand...


I wouldn't say "selfish" .... but he thinks he has to be the hero.


Its a philosophical difference and one the great QB's understand.

If you ask Tom Brady , Brees , Peyton , Rodgers what his job is as a QB he's more likely than not going to tell you to get the ball to his playmakers in favorable situations so they can make plays.

If you ask Watson that same question , the answer is going to be more along the lines of "I have to make plays"


The regression I spoke of earlier was from his rookie season to the second in that he got the ball out in a blistering 1.93 as a rookie. That second year the number skyrocketed to 2.8.

Last year it was in that same ballpark .... 2.8. That makes life miserable for your OL and doesn't help the running game either.


You look at what Tyrod Taylor has done in his two games with the Texans - Same dude who called the plays for Watson last year is calling them for him & Taylor leads the league in some passing metrics. He's also getting the ball out in a spectacular 1.92 seconds on average.
The route combinations are very similar ....


As for why the TE's weren't targeted more and routes that appear to be "slow developing" , that's on the dude under center. I've gone back and watched literally every offensive play on All-22 last year and the times he flat out missed open guys underneath (Or chose not to) or on what should have been quicker passes is absolutely befuddling. Like I said above , its a philosophical issue , I said as much during last season as well.
Its not an issue of talent , the guy has all the physical gifts a QB could dream of .... but the mental aspect of the position is probably more important than those physical gifts , that's why a guy like Brady is The Goat and Peyton or Schaub were as successful as they were despite lacking "athleticism".
 
Mr teX said:
If you're cool with Mahomes' hero selfish ball, you should be cool with DW4's...period. There is no credible scenario you can point to that shows its cool for 1 guy to be making throws like this
View attachment 9063 anView attachment 9064d it being unacceptable for the other guy.

Your logic makes no sense & you've not shown any evidence to back up what you assert. More importantly, more credible football minds flat out disagree with you.
Click to expand...

You are taking a still shot nd calling it "Mahomes selfish hero ball" yet not taking into context anything that happened to get to that point of the play. This really does nothing to prove your point.


The issue at hand is Watson passing up open looks in favor of deeper throws and those often lead to Watson doing things like in those above images ....


And its his philosophy as a QB that causes those plays to break down forcing him to play hero. "I have to make big plays". He's a modern version of Michael Vick. That dude was entertaining as hell to watch but he never won much of anything



No , you get the ball to your playmakers favorably and they make plays.
 
Big difference between Brady, Brees, Manning, Mahomes, Rodgers, and Watson……they had “playmakers” and Watson had a “playmaker”. Watson could’ve had a couple more had they stayed on the field.

When Peyton didn’t have his full compliment of playmakers he looked like a well oiled INT machine. His game got much better when the talent around him got much better.

Watson looked amazing in his rookie season simply b/c OB was forced to run a Watson friendly offense. Instead of building around that rookie season and modifying the playbook towards his “Franchise QB’s” strengths…..that knucklehead threw it all out the window to ensure his mind-bending offense was the one used going forward.

We’ve discussed this in the past but Mahomes success was directly related to the fact that Reid modified his offense to fit Mahomes strengths versus joining OB in the stubborn knucklehead camp.

I’ve stated this before and I’ll state it again…..Watson in KC with Reid and the picture pretty much stays the same in regards to their success. Mahomes with the Texans and OB…..yields pretty much the same results. You just hope Mahomes isn’t a different QB when OB is finally ran out of town.
 
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Corrosion said:
You are taking a still shot nd calling it "Mahomes selfish hero ball" yet not taking into context anything that happened to get to that point of the play. This really does nothing to prove your point.
Click to expand...

You're delusional & your bias clearly shows that you don't really understand what hero ball is. Still shot or not, crazy arm talent or not, there's only 1 instance in a football game where you attempt to throw the ball laying out sideways like Mahomes was in that pic....& that's end of game, last play of the game type situations. Clearly that was not the situation when he attempted that pass. Nor was it that situation last week when he tried to throw it in the grasp of a defender & wound up tossing the INT that turned the game. It's who he is..who he's always been. He's just been fortunate enough to land in a situation with Reid & the talent that's around him that can withstand him doing these things.

Corrosion said:
The issue at hand is Watson passing up open looks in favor of deeper throws and those often lead to Watson doing things like in those above images ....
Click to expand...

The issue at hand is/was the HC & his offensive philosophy...& that he only really ever had 1 playmaker that he could count on..until that same HC traded him away. He didn't have the luxury that Mahomes had with 1 of the best deep threats in the game in Hill team up with THE best TE in the game with Kelce......... along with 1 of the best offensive playcallers/schemers in the game in Reid.

Corrosion said:
He's a modern version of Michael Vick.
Click to expand...

He as he is now is already better than Vick ever was as a passer & QB.
 
Corrosion said:
I wouldn't say "selfish" .... but he thinks he has to be the hero.


Its a philosophical difference and one the great QB's understand.

If you ask Tom Brady , Brees , Peyton , Rodgers what his job is as a QB he's more likely than not going to tell you to get the ball to his playmakers in favorable situations so they can make plays.

If you ask Watson that same question , the answer is going to be more along the lines of "I have to make plays"


The regression I spoke of earlier was from his rookie season to the second in that he got the ball out in a blistering 1.93 as a rookie. That second year the number skyrocketed to 2.8.

Last year it was in that same ballpark .... 2.8. That makes life miserable for your OL and doesn't help the running game either.

You look at what Tyrod Taylor has done in his two games with the Texans - Same dude who called the plays for Watson last year is calling them for him & Taylor leads the league in some passing metrics. He's also getting the ball out in a spectacular 1.92 seconds on average.
The route combinations are very similar ....


As for why the TE's weren't targeted more and routes that appear to be "slow developing" , that's on the dude under center. I've gone back and watched literally every offensive play on All-22 last year and the times he flat out missed open guys underneath (Or chose not to) or on what should have been quicker passes is absolutely befuddling. Like I said above , its a philosophical issue , I said as much during last season as well.
Its not an issue of talent , the guy has all the physical gifts a QB could dream of .... but the mental aspect of the position is probably more important than those physical gifts , that's why a guy like Brady is The Goat and Peyton or Schaub were as successful as they were despite lacking "athleticism".
Click to expand...

This is a case when your tunnel vision has betrayed you & you've zeroed in on 1 rinky dink stat that you think proves your point & it really doesn't; Not in the face of all the other numbers that show your stance to be flat out wrong.

His rookie season he only played in 5-6 games before getting injured.... we went 4-12
his 2nd full season...... we went 11-5
His 3rd full season......we went 10-6

During that 3 year span this is who he had protecting him for a number of games at 1 point or another as starters:

Julien Davenport
Breno Giacommini
Kendall Lamm
Senio Kelemete
Xavier Sua'filo
Chris Clark
Nick Martin
Zach Fulton

All career backups, most of which are out of league. & I can't find the data, but im sure he also had at least 70+ different o-line combinations in that time frame too. Keep in mind that he also lost a pro bowl LT & a 3X all pro WR in this time as well..

Now when Mahomes got beat up towards the end of the season last year, got knocked out of the playoff game against the Chiefs & then threw up that stinker in the SB & had back up quality guys protecting him like DW4 had his ENTIRE CAREER, what did the chiefs do? They immediately went and completely overhauled their o-line the next offseason b/c they recognized what you clearly don't. That Mahomes (or any qb for that matter) is only as good as the protection he's getting..that great scheming and qb play can only go so far. Same for Brady, Same for Brees, Same Rodgers. THAT is the fundamental difference, not becoming a check down artist as a qb like you seem to be suggesting.

Now rewind that and look at what BoB & the Texans did in the 4 years of DW4's career. He went bargain bin shopping for 2 years & got career backups & put them in starting roles with an o-line coach that sucked at development. Then in a desperation move, traded off huge amounts of draft capital to shore up 1 position while neglecting the other 4. It all finally blew up last year.

Taylor is benefiting from the overhaul of the o-line that NC undertook when he got here. Develin gone. Martin gone. Fulton gone. Howard kicked inside to guard.
 
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Mr teX said:
The issue at hand is/was the HC & his offensive philosophy...& that he only really ever had 1 playmaker that he could count on..until that same HC traded him away. He didn't have the luxury that Mahomes had with 1 of the best deep threats in the game in Hill team up with THE best TE in the game with Kelce......... along with 1 of the best offensive playcallers/schemers in the game in Reid.
Click to expand...

And Tyrod Taylor has less talent and even fewer weapons .... Yet the offense is clicking & he's leading the league in several passing metrics .... while running pretty much the same scheme , with the same dude calling the plays and having a less effective running game (3.5ypc Vs last years 4.3).
 
Corrosion said:
And Tyrod Taylor has less talent and even fewer weapons .... Yet the offense is clicking & he's leading the league in several passing metrics .... while running pretty much the same scheme , with the same dude calling the plays and having a less effective running game (3.5ypc Vs last years 4.3).
Click to expand...

The same dude calling plays with 1 HUGE difference & i called this in the offseason. He would be more effective as an OC b/c BoB wasn't lording over him changing gameplans at the last minute & the like. The run game has never been really effective for either Tyrod or DW4 so what you're asserting is again immaterial.

Taylor playing behind Martin, Kelemete & Fulton would've probably been hurt in week 1.

Keep acting like the complete roster flip & the addition by subtraction of BoB isn't the major catalyst.

I'm actually glad NC didn't come here until after BoB was gone. It probably would've been just a matter of time before BoB got sideways with him too like he did with Smith & Gaine.
 
Corrosion said:
And Tyrod Taylor has less talent and even fewer weapons .... Yet the offense is clicking & he's leading the league in several passing metrics .... while running pretty much the same scheme , with the same dude calling the plays and having a less effective running game (3.5ypc Vs last years 4.3).
Click to expand...
So, in your opinion. It's the same scheme and you have not seen any differences in the offensive philosophy, blocking, formations, scheme or play calling from last year or the O'Brien OC years? You're saying neither Pep or Culley have influenced or impacted how the offense operates?
 
Corrosion said:
I wouldn't say "selfish" .... but he thinks he has to be the hero.


Its a philosophical difference and one the great QB's understand.

If you ask Tom Brady , Brees , Peyton , Rodgers what his job is as a QB he's more likely than not going to tell you to get the ball to his playmakers in favorable situations so they can make plays.

If you ask Watson that same question , the answer is going to be more along the lines of "I have to make plays"


The regression I spoke of earlier was from his rookie season to the second in that he got the ball out in a blistering 1.93 as a rookie. That second year the number skyrocketed to 2.8.

Last year it was in that same ballpark .... 2.8. That makes life miserable for your OL and doesn't help the running game either.


You look at what Tyrod Taylor has done in his two games with the Texans - Same dude who called the plays for Watson last year is calling them for him & Taylor leads the league in some passing metrics. He's also getting the ball out in a spectacular 1.92 seconds on average.
The route combinations are very similar ....


As for why the TE's weren't targeted more and routes that appear to be "slow developing" , that's on the dude under center. I've gone back and watched literally every offensive play on All-22 last year and the times he flat out missed open guys underneath (Or chose not to) or on what should have been quicker passes is absolutely befuddling. Like I said above , its a philosophical issue , I said as much during last season as well.
Its not an issue of talent , the guy has all the physical gifts a QB could dream of .... but the mental aspect of the position is probably more important than those physical gifts , that's why a guy like Brady is The Goat and Peyton or Schaub were as successful as they were despite lacking "athleticism".
Click to expand...
Yeah, Watson's "Time-to-throw" was too high at 2.85

But time to throw needs to go together with IAY (Intended Air Yard).
On the average, it takes longer to set up to make a longer pass downfield.
A one-step quick throw is going to be faster than a 3-step, and so on.

And lookee:
Pat Mahomes was at 2.89 and his IAY is lower than Watson's (8.5 vs 9)

:brando: :spit::spit:
 
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Corrosion said:
I wouldn't say "selfish" .... but he thinks he has to be the hero.


Its a philosophical difference and one the great QB's understand.

If you ask Tom Brady , Brees , Peyton , Rodgers what his job is as a QB he's more likely than not going to tell you to get the ball to his playmakers in favorable situations so they can make plays.

If you ask Watson that same question , the answer is going to be more along the lines of "I have to make plays"


The regression I spoke of earlier was from his rookie season to the second in that he got the ball out in a blistering 1.93 as a rookie. That second year the number skyrocketed to 2.8.

Last year it was in that same ballpark .... 2.8. That makes life miserable for your OL and doesn't help the running game either.


You look at what Tyrod Taylor has done in his two games with the Texans - Same dude who called the plays for Watson last year is calling them for him & Taylor leads the league in some passing metrics. He's also getting the ball out in a spectacular 1.92 seconds on average.
The route combinations are very similar ....


As for why the TE's weren't targeted more and routes that appear to be "slow developing" , that's on the dude under center. I've gone back and watched literally every offensive play on All-22 last year and the times he flat out missed open guys underneath (Or chose not to) or on what should have been quicker passes is absolutely befuddling. Like I said above , its a philosophical issue , I said as much during last season as well.
Its not an issue of talent , the guy has all the physical gifts a QB could dream of .... but the mental aspect of the position is probably more important than those physical gifts , that's why a guy like Brady is The Goat and Peyton or Schaub were as successful as they were despite lacking "athleticism".
Click to expand...
Look at the same table and organize it in the order of "Time to throw".
The majority of the guys that "get the ball out fast" were the ones whose teams' suck.
Why?
Because the HC had to call more easy, quick play to help them.
But that don't go too well now, does it?

Matt Ryan and Russell Wilson were among those with much longer time to throw.
That's enough to tell us that you're just biased and just try to find anything that stick to try to make a nonsensical case.
 
Corrosion said:
You are taking a still shot nd calling it "Mahomes selfish hero ball" yet not taking into context anything that happened to get to that point of the play. This really does nothing to prove your point.


The issue at hand is Watson passing up open looks in favor of deeper throws and those often lead to Watson doing things like in those above images ....


And its his philosophy as a QB that causes those plays to break down forcing him to play hero. "I have to make big plays". He's a modern version of Michael Vick. That dude was entertaining as hell to watch but he never won much of anything



No , you get the ball to your playmakers favorably and they make plays.
Click to expand...
Now go back to 2019 and do the same thing.

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Watson's time is the same as Mahomes', but he still threw it a hair further down field.

And look among those QBs with much longer time to throw: Tannehill, Wilson, Rodgers, Prescott, Allen.

You're just fooling yourself trying to come up with ways to... fool yourself.
 
Mr teX said:
No, i just think its more likely that you behind your keyboard don't have a clue of what you're talking about :laughjump:
Click to expand...

Back at you, I notice how you avoided the part about not being able to consistently make the protection calls after 4 years in the NFL. Yep, as we've seen lately your guy is a Mensa candidate.
 
steelbtexan said:
Back at you, I notice how you avoided the part about not being able to consistently make the protection calls after 4 years in the NFL. Yep, as we've seen lately your guy is a Mensa candidate.
Click to expand...
Uhhm no.
Most teams have the Center making the line call.
The QB can always have a certain audible or direct a RB and/or the TE move around.

The Texans did it with Schaub.

Very few QBs in the league make the line call.
blogs.usafootball.com

The QB of the offensive line

The center position is one of the most overlooked positions on the field. Read more from Brandon Thorn on what makes the center position the QB of the offensive line.
blogs.usafootball.com
 
steelbtexan said:
Back at you, I notice how you avoided the part about not being able to consistently make the protection calls after 4 years in the NFL. Yep, as we've seen lately your guy is a Mensa candidate.
Click to expand...

I didn’t avoid anything, I just dismissed your entire premise b/c it has no merit…kinda how the judge dismissed buzzards attempt to withhold the names of his clients in that pretrial hearing?

Some nonsense you entertain b/c you're curious as to the depths of delusion and stupidity. Others you categorically dismiss b/c they’re so ridiculous you yourself refuse to believe someone could be that dumb..:laughjump:
 
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Mr teX said:
If you know those things, as a qb, you tend to want to do more..especially if:

You aren't used to losing.
You are 1 of the best players on that side of the ball and on the team in general.
You are the leader of the team & relied upon to "make something happen".
at the very least keep guys up when things aren't going well.
Know deep down, you can't depend on your defense.

DW4 had all this & then some when you consider the decisions the FO was making that effected him.

So to criticize the kid's style of play under those circumstances is again, not very sound logic.
Click to expand...

Sound like a lot of stress.

Do you think he had the right amount of massages to deal with all the stress?

I say he had too many.
 
Mr teX said:
I didn’t avoid anything, I just dismissed your entire premise b/c it has no merit…kinda how the judge dismissed buzzards attempt to withhold the names of his clients in that pretrial hearing?

Some nonsense you entertain b/c youCurious as to the depths of delusion and
stupidity. Others you categorically dismiss b/c they’re so ridiculous you yourself refuse to believe someone could be that dumb..:laughjump:
Click to expand...

Dismiss whatever you would like to dismiss.

Fact The Pervert struggled to call the right protections.

Now if you want to argue that BOB shouldn't have given your dumbazz Pervert those responsibilities, then I would certainly agree with you.
 
Earl34 said:
So, in your opinion. It's the same scheme and you have not seen any differences in the offensive philosophy, blocking, formations, scheme or play calling from last year or the O'Brien OC years? You're saying neither Pep or Culley have influenced or impacted how the offense operates?
Click to expand...

You are attempting to put words in my mouth , that's not what I said in any way.
 
76Texan said:
Yeah, Watson's "Time-to-throw" was too high at 2.85

But time to throw needs to go together with IAY (Intended Air Yard).
On the average, it takes longer to set up to make a longer pass downfield.
A one-step quick throw is going to be faster than a 3-step, and so on.

And lookee:
Pat Mahomes was at 2.89 and his IAY is lower than Watson's (8.5 vs 9)

:brando: :spit::spit:
Click to expand...

You just proved my point with your stat .... :corrosion:
 
thunderkyss said:
Well, their argument is he should use more of the short quick game & they showed plenty of open receivers on the all 22 to back up their claim.
Click to expand...


Bottom Line.

People are fooled by stats and the occasional highlight reel .... Bret Vick Err Michael Favre.

And really , those are lofty comparisons .... but guys who had a flaw or two.


I don't get what's wrong with saying that Watson has a hole or two in his game.
 
Mr teX said:
The same dude calling plays with 1 HUGE difference & i called this in the offseason. He would be more effective as an OC b/c BoB wasn't lording over him changing gameplans at the last minute & the like. The run game has never been really effective for either Tyrod or DW4 so what you're asserting is again immaterial.

Taylor playing behind Martin, Kelemete & Fulton would've probably been hurt in week 1.

Keep acting like the complete roster flip & the addition by subtraction of BoB isn't the major catalyst.

I'm actually glad NC didn't come here until after BoB was gone. It probably would've been just a matter of time before BoB got sideways with him too like he did with Smith & Gaine.
Click to expand...

Excuses

You don't know how Caserio would have done with BOB, but I bet they would have done well working together since they both came from the Foxboro tree.
 
76Texan said:
Uhhm no.
Most teams have the Center making the line call.
The QB can always have a certain audible or direct a RB and/or the TE move around.

The Texans did it with Schaub.

Very few QBs in the league make the line call.
blogs.usafootball.com

The QB of the offensive line

The center position is one of the most overlooked positions on the field. Read more from Brandon Thorn on what makes the center position the QB of the offensive line.
blogs.usafootball.com
Click to expand...
BOB had the Pervert trying to do what Brady does and your guy doesn't have it upstairs to play that way. It's why I said BOB made a mistake not letting the Pervert play street ball and if he got hurt so be it.

Instead BOB tried to turn him into Brady and BOB rightfully paid for it with his job. Imagine if Harbaugh had tried to do this with LJ, he would have been fired by now too.
 
Corrosion said:
And Tyrod Taylor has less talent and even fewer weapons .... Yet the offense is clicking & he's leading the league in several passing metrics .... while running pretty much the same scheme , with the same dude calling the plays and having a less effective running game (3.5ypc Vs last years 4.3).
Click to expand...
We didn't have top notch weapons and Watson still put up big time numbers.
 
Corrosion said:
Bottom Line.

People are fooled by stats and the occasional highlight reel .... Bret Vick Err Michael Favre.

And really , those are lofty comparisons .... but guys who had a flaw or two.


I don't get what's wrong with saying that Watson has a hole or two in his game.
Click to expand...
I don't think anyone disagrees with you that Watson has hole(s) in his game. The disagreement is can he fix or minimizes those holes with better coaching, scheme, experience and even maturity?
 
Earl34 said:
Exactly. According to some posters, O'Brien didn't want to draft Watson. If O'Brien wasn't onboard with Watson's style of play, he would have made that an excuse to get rid of him. He would have whispered to his media buddies about Watson being "uncoachable" and not learning the offense.

Anyone who thinks O'Brien wasn't onboard with Watson's style of play should answer this simple question. With O'Brien's temper, stubbornness and control freak nature. Do you think he would sit passively by and let Watson continually ignore his play designs and progressions?

During his rookie season, Watson threw a TD pass and as he comes off the field, O'Brien tells him he was in the wrong formation. Watson was trying to explain that he thought the formation was based on the hash marks and O'Brien corrected him by saying, "sometimes he makes a play call off his gut feel and ignores the hash marks" Does that sound like someone who would let Watson ignore the progressions in the play design?
Click to expand...

O'Brien didn't have a choice. It was a mandate from the owner to Rick Smith to pick a QB in the first round.

There is a reason O'Brien started Tom Savage in the first game instead of the obviously better talented rookie QB.

O'Brien, again under an owner mandate, had to revise his playbook for his new QB. He never had a choice in the matter if he wanted to keep his job.

They formed a working relationship, but Watson's success at hero ball should not be confused with the prototype QB (i.e. tall, rocket-armed, pocket-bound) that O'Brien would have preferred.
 
Double Barrel said:
O'Brien didn't have a choice. It was a mandate from the owner to Rick Smith to pick a QB in the first round.

There is a reason O'Brien started Tom Savage in the first game instead of the obviously better talented rookie QB.

O'Brien, again under an owner mandate, had to revise his playbook for his new QB. He never had a choice in the matter if he wanted to keep his job.

They formed a working relationship, but Watson's success at hero ball should not be confused with the prototype QB (i.e. tall, rocket-armed, pocket-bound) that O'Brien would have preferred.
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How come people (like corrosion and steel) said that OB wanted Mahomes?
He's the same type of guy.
 
76Texan said:
How come people (like corrosion and steel) said that OB wanted Mahomes?
He's the same type of guy.
Click to expand...


You need to realize that while they are similar , they aren't the same.

One of them takes those short , quick throws when they are presented more often than not (Strong Emphasis) and resorts to hero ball when the play breaks down , the other refuses those short routes more often than not and resorts to hero ball when the play breaks down.

One of them is causing his own problems ....

Time and again last year we showed you video evidence of this tendency and got nothing but excuses and blame placed on everyone but Watson. Play Caller , Scheme , OL , RB , WR .... common denominator Watson.
 
thunderkyss said:
If I had Kelce & Hill to throw short to, or draw coverage deep I'd throw short all day long.
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it really is just that simple. Apparently tho, those guys and how good they are don’t matter. Everyone has a Kelce & Hill type player they can throw short to & convert regularly.:rolleyes:
 
Mr teX said:
it really is just that simple. Apparently tho, those guys and how good they are don’t matter. Everyone has a Kelce & Hill type player they can throw short to & convert regularly.:rolleyes:
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Doesn't matter, there were open receivers underneath.
They're not gonna drop or fumble the ball.
They will get the YAC. :brando:
 
Mr teX said:
it really is just that simple. Apparently tho, those guys and how good they are don’t matter. Everyone has a Kelce & Hill type player they can throw short to & convert regularly.:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Except the offense did well when Hill was hurt last yr.
 
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