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DW4 Traded to Cleveland

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At this point it doesn't matter what we think of Watson's style. We will not get to see Watson in a Texans' uniform with this current coaching staff.

I understand that most fans of any sport tend to over rate players on their favorite team. For example, if a Spurs fan tell me Tim Duncan is greater than Hakeem, those are fighting words. However, whether it was vocal minority of "Watson Only Fans" or "the anyone but Watson" crew, he became a polarizing player on this forum.

Maybe the chirping from the vocal extremes forced us to take sides and we lost the perspective on a talented, young player. However, if we can all agree that O'Brien was not a good OC. He ran a unimaginative, complicated system that was hard on young QBs and WRs that led to inconsistent play and he struggled identifying personnel for his scheme. If we know all of these things to be true, why did we expect a 4th year QB to be perfect? No one said Watson was some generational talent. No one said he was a finished product. We can acknowledge like many young QBs, he still had holes in his game. Hell even Mahomes who landed in QB heaven has holes in his game.

It's just interesting to me that with the history of mediocre Texans QB play, we had a talented QB on the roster and instead of being excited and hoping for growth and improvement from the QB, we nit picked the hell out of his game and act like he could never meet the high standards of previous Texans QBs or veteran QBs with twice as much experience.
 
steelbtexan said:
Cognitive ignorance? 4-12 during his best statistical season. Says he was always more about stats/highlights etc....

Just because I disagree with you and think he will never win a championship because he's a selfish player (This extends to his personal life too) doesn't mean I'm ignorant. In fact he's a dumb player and dumb players rarely win championships. You know whoelse was a dumb player who should've won more championships than he did based on his ability? (Favre)
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Wrong! He put us in position to win at least 5 or 6 of those games. The defense and the head coach failed us last season. We should’ve won the division again last season as well.
 
Texansballer74 said:
Wrong! He put us in position to win at least 5 or 6 of those games. The defense and the head coach failed us last season. We should’ve won the division again last season as well.
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Position? You mean like in the Steelers game last yr?

How about that string of games where they didn't score more than a TD in the 2nd half? Yes, you can blame some of this on BOB but not all of it.
 
steelbtexan said:
Go back and look at the games last yr where they scored 1 TD or less in the 2nd half.
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I've already listed some games up a few posts.
I don't see any string.

Wins are wins, you don't care when they score.

Secondly, a QB can sustain only so much pressure.
Ask Brady or Mahomes.
Ask Wilson or anybody you like to.
 
OB’s play calling was so atrocious…..most armchair QB’s knew what was coming before the offense even re-huddled. When we all mentioned the same thing during the games, how in the hail did anyone expect Watson to put up the numbers he did?

Watson set his rookie season records based on the fact OB had to change his offense to accommodate lack of time in the offense. He was looking real good until OB and his coaches installed their actual offense. Did I mention that the OL talent really sucked arse?
 
Corrosion said:
No .... I'm Not.

He's a dude that's going to put up what appears to be great numbers & incredible highlights that simply don't equate to winning.
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yeah…that’s why McVay traded 2 first rounders for Stafford who, by your logic is just a guy who puts up stats and is a perennial loser…after all he’s never come close to reaching an NFCCG. Nope, he’s not a good QB that’s just been in a bad situation/organization…for years.:ok:

Thanks, but I’ll trust my eyes and those in the NFL who know…
 
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Corrosion said:
No .... I'm Not.

He's a dude that's going to put up what appears to be great numbers & incredible highlights that simply don't equate to winning.
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At this point. Nothing posted will change anyone's mind. However, I don't recall Watson having a reputation for being uncoachable or holding the ball too long in college.

Does anyone thinks that if Watson was consistently screwing up O'Brien's brilliant offensive scheme and not taking his QB whisperer coaching, that Teapot and his temper would just sit idly by and allow it? That Teapot wouldn't be chewing his a$$ out on the sidelines and in practice? Could it be that either Watson played the way the scheme and coaching wanted it? If they wanted the ball out of his hands quicker, why so many slow developing plays? Why so many ineffective first down runs? A TE is a young QB's best friend. Why the sporadic use of the TEs? If they wanted to keep the clock moving, why the below average running game?

It doesn't make sense to me. Why give a guy $160 million when posters on an internet forum can watch the All Mighty 22 and plainly see that he is not a winning QB who cannot take them to an AFC championship far less a Super Bowl? Before the allegations, why would teams be willing to give up 3 first round picks for a guy who is uncoachable and not a winning QB?

I just can't buy that logic being used here that he is a finished product and has reached his ceiling. There is nothing I see in Watson's game that cannot be improved with experience and better coaching. We will have to agree to disagree.
 
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Earl34 said:
At this point. Nothing posted will change anyone's mind. However, I don't recall Watson having a reputation for being uncoachable or holding the ball too long in college.

Does anyone thinks that if Watson was consistently screwing up O'Brien's brilliant offensive scheme and not taking his QB whisperer coaching, that Teapot and his temper would just sit idly by and allow it? That Teapot wouldn't be chewing his a$$ out on the sidelines and in practice? Could it be that either Watson played the way the scheme and coaching wanted it? If they wanted the ball out of his hands quicker, why so many slow developing plays? Why so many ineffective first down runs? A TE is a young QB's best friend. Why the sporadic use of the TEs? If they wanted to keep the clock moving, why the below average running game?

It doesn't make sense to me. Why give a guy $160 million when posters on an internet forum can watch the All Mighty 22 and plainly see that he is not a winning QB who cannot take them to an AFC championship far less a Super Bowl? Before the allegations, why would teams be willing to give up 3 first round picks for a guy who is uncoachable and not a winning QB?

I just can't buy that logic being used here. There is nothing I see in Watson's game that cannot be improved with experience and better coaching. We will have to agree to disagree.
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Hey brother it’s deeper than the true facts you just laid out. What I’ve learned over the many years here on earth. Is whenever a person doesn’t like someone or something, nothing could change their minds. Nor will they give a honest and true evaluation. We’ve had this discussion and I posted stats that showed Patrick holding onto the ball the exact amount of time as Watson. Not only that but he also plays hero ball. I remember dude took something like a 50 yard sack. But these same folks praises him and calls him the best quarterback in the game today.
 
Texansballer74 said:
Hey brother it’s deeper than the true facts you just laid out. What I’ve learned over the many years here on earth. Is whenever a person doesn’t like someone or something, nothing could change their minds. Nor will they give a honest and true evaluation. We’ve had this discussion and I posted stats that showed Patrick holding onto the ball the exact amount of time as Watson. Not only that but he also plays hero ball. I remember dude took something like a 50 yard sack. But these same folks praises him and calls him the best quarterback in the game today.
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Well that’s just it..the logic they use is inconsistent & fails when it is pointed out that their favorite Qbs do the exact same things &/or have/had the same challenges in the past and got similar results despite how good they individually were.

Look at Mahomes. This dude does nearly EVERYTHING, coaches teach qbs NOT to do. Throwing off your back foot, off platform, back across the field, plays hero ball alot…all that. DW4 at Clemson didn't do alot of that stuff & he had everything Mahomes didn't & you saw him win at the highest level. In contrast, Mahomes when he had the same challenges at TT that DW4 has had in the pros (**** coaching/talent & just overall a not so great situation), his teams did not win alot despite his mostly impressive numbers.

Its uncanny how all of that literally flipped when they entered the pros. Mahomes got the great coaching and talent and relatively stable situation, DW4 did not and you’re seeing the same results from DW4 you saw from Mahomes in college. So its quite silly that a few in here have the stances they do have about DW4's play on the field but then back door & hold Mahomes up as the standard b/c he's now winning...Those guys' careers in college to now are the textbook inverse examples of each other as to why all the other stuff around the qb matter just as much if not more than the qb position by itself.
 
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Earl34 said:
At this point. Nothing posted will change anyone's mind. However, I don't recall Watson having a reputation for being uncoachable or holding the ball too long in college.

Does anyone thinks that if Watson was consistently screwing up O'Brien's brilliant offensive scheme and not taking his QB whisperer coaching, that Teapot and his temper would just sit idly by and allow it? That Teapot wouldn't be chewing his a$$ out on the sidelines and in practice? Could it be that either Watson played the way the scheme and coaching wanted it? If they wanted the ball out of his hands quicker, why so many slow developing plays? Why so many ineffective first down runs? A TE is a young QB's best friend. Why the sporadic use of the TEs? If they wanted to keep the clock moving, why the below average running game?

It doesn't make sense to me. Why give a guy $160 million when posters on an internet forum can watch the All Mighty 22 and plainly see that he is not a winning QB who cannot take them to an AFC championship far less a Super Bowl? Before the allegations, why would teams be willing to give up 3 first round picks for a guy who is uncoachable and not a winning QB?

I just can't buy that logic being used here that he is a finished product and has reached his ceiling. There is nothing I see in Watson's game that cannot be improved with experience and better coaching. We will have to agree to disagree.
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Why does there need to be logic? :brando:
 
76Texan said:
Example:
www.pro-football-reference.com

Super Bowl LV - Kansas City Chiefs vs. Tampa Bay Buccaneers - February 7th, 2021 | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Kansas City Chiefs 9 vs. Tampa Bay Buccaneers 31 on February 7th, 2021 - Full team and player stats and box score
www.pro-football-reference.com www.pro-football-reference.com

Why did the Chiefs score only 3 points in the second half?

Why did they score only 6 points in the first half?
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Quiet as its kept b/c he's been so good in the regular season, Mahomes hasn't really been all that good in either of the SB's; you could say he's been bad in both actually. Yes the Chiefs won SB 54, but late in that game he threw an INT that should've cost them that game. His stat line with a little under 6 min left he'd barely thrown over 200 yds 0 TD's and 2 INTS. His defense in shutting down SF in the 4th qtr....& Kyle Shanahan :laughjump: going turtle came to his rescue.
 
Earl34 said:
At this point. Nothing posted will change anyone's mind. However, I don't recall Watson having a reputation for being uncoachable or holding the ball too long in college.

Does anyone thinks that if Watson was consistently screwing up O'Brien's brilliant offensive scheme and not taking his QB whisperer coaching, that Teapot and his temper would just sit idly by and allow it? That Teapot wouldn't be chewing his a$$ out on the sidelines and in practice? Could it be that either Watson played the way the scheme and coaching wanted it? If they wanted the ball out of his hands quicker, why so many slow developing plays? Why so many ineffective first down runs? A TE is a young QB's best friend. Why the sporadic use of the TEs? If they wanted to keep the clock moving, why the below average running game?

It doesn't make sense to me. Why give a guy $160 million when posters on an internet forum can watch the All Mighty 22 and plainly see that he is not a winning QB who cannot take them to an AFC championship far less a Super Bowl? Before the allegations, why would teams be willing to give up 3 first round picks for a guy who is uncoachable and not a winning QB?

I just can't buy that logic being used here that he is a finished product and has reached his ceiling. There is nothing I see in Watson's game that cannot be improved with experience and better coaching. We will have to agree to disagree.
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I agree. At best you could say Watson wasn't ever going to win anything on this team the way it was constructed at that time. No run game. No defense. Poor OL play.

But I think you could substitute Watson for Brady & that would still be the case. Brady wasn't going to win anything on this team the way it was constructed.

At the same time, I can understand people who do not appreciate Watson's style of play, regardless how the team was constructed. Like Farve they would say he could have won 3 or 4 championships instead of one.

What I don't get, are the ones saying, there's nothing wrong with the way Watson plays. I can't think of anyone in the salary cap Era that has won more than once.

Maybe Roethlisberger, but he was taken out of that style of play to win his 2nd & third championships.
 
thunderkyss said:
I agree. At best you could say Watson wasn't ever going to win anything on this team the way it was constructed at that time. No run game. No defense. Poor OL play.

But I think you could substitute Watson for Brady & that would still be the case. Brady wasn't going to win anything on this team the way it was constructed.

At the same time, I can understand people who do not appreciate Watson's style of play, regardless how the team was constructed. Like Farve they would say he could have won 3 or 4 championships instead of one.

What I don't get, are the ones saying, there's nothing wrong with the way Watson plays. I can't think of anyone in the salary cap Era that has won more than once.

Maybe Roethlisberger, but he was taken out of that style of play to win his 2nd & third championships.
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I'm not so sure about Big Ben though.
I think it was just recently that he tamed down his holding on to the ball forever and throwing the ball with defenders wrapping around his legs.

Look at that year the Steelers won the SB for example.
www.pro-football-reference.com

2008 Pittsburgh Steelers Rosters, Stats, Schedule, Team Draftees | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Check out the 2008 Pittsburgh Steelers Roster, Stats, Schedule, Team Draftees, Injury Reports and more on Pro-Football-Reference.com.
www.pro-football-reference.com www.pro-football-reference.com

His TD-INT ratio was 17-15
The Steelers were no. 1 in both points and yards allowed.

And he didn't do a whole lot in the SB run.
Sure, he toned down the turnover, but that was because the Steelers were able to rely on the D to make the crucial stop.
The QB doesn't have to take as much risk.
 
76Texan said:
Sure, he toned down the turnover, but that was because the Steelers were able to rely on the D to make the crucial stop.
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& maybe that's what Corrosion is saying. We knew the Texans couldn't run the ball. We knew the defense was porous. Watson should have known.

So why play the way he played? Was he being selfish?
 
thunderkyss said:
& maybe that's what Corrosion is saying. We knew the Texans couldn't run the ball. We knew the defense was porous. Watson should have known.

So why play the way he played? Was he being selfish?
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No, it's the opposite.
When the rest of the team couldn't carry their weight, the QB normally tries to do more.

I remember when Keenum was starting for the Broncos, later on in the year, John Elway (and I paraphrase) wants Keenum to take more chance.

The Defense didn't play up to par.
They were the 4th highest paid defense in the league, but they ranked 13th in points allowed and a terrible 22nd in yard allowed.

They had the 8th most in rush attempted, but was only 19th in yards gained.

But yeah, Elway wanted Keenum to take more chances.
 
thunderkyss said:
& maybe that's what Corrosion is saying. We knew the Texans couldn't run the ball. We knew the defense was porous. Watson should have known.

So why play the way he played? Was he being selfish?
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If you know those things, as a qb, you tend to want to do more..especially if:

✅ You aren't used to losing.
✅ You are 1 of the best players on that side of the ball and on the team in general.
✅ You are the leader of the team & relied upon to "make something happen".
at the very least keep guys up when things aren't going well.
✅ Know deep down, you can't depend on your defense.

DW4 had all this & then some when you consider the decisions the FO was making that effected him.

So to criticize the kid's style of play under those circumstances is again, not very sound logic.
 
Mr teX said:
If you know those things, as a qb, you tend to want to do more..
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Well, their argument is he should use more of the short quick game & they showed plenty of open receivers on the all 22 to back up their claim.
 
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thunderkyss said:
Well, there argument is he should use more of the short quick game & they showed plenty of open receivers on the all 22 to back up their claim.
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Not enough.

I said when I looked at the game films of other QBs like Rodgers, Wilson, Mahomes, etc., I saw about the same.

These guys aren't afraid of taking chances even when there's an open outlet on the shorter route.
(And their defenses weren't as porous).

Corrosion and steel just use them to make their point.
 
Its not really an argument unless they know for a fact what the progressions of the reads were and what the offense was trying to do at that particular time. I myself have posted all-22 clips on what i thought DW4 should've done on certain pass plays. But as 76 says, pick a qb in the league, yes even brady & you can find plays like that. Aside from that, All-22 has several views from up high. Things look decidely different from behind center & at the LOS & its very often easy for us to see things from that aerial view that those guys sometimes don't or can't really see at the LOS.
 
Mr teX said:
Its not really an argument unless they know for a fact what the progressions of the reads were and what the offense was trying to do at that particular time. I myself have posted all-22 clips on what i thought DW4 should've done on certain pass plays. But as 76 says, pick a qb in the league, yes even brady & you can find plays like that. Aside from that, All-22 has several views from up high. Things look decidely different from behind center & at the LOS & its very often easy for us to see things from that aerial view that those guys sometimes don't or can't really see at the LOS.
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Exactly.
Also, the window can close pretty quick in the NFL.

I had some long posts about a certain play where corrosion (and others) thought Watson had an open receiver underneath.
But the fact is that with the rusher(s) coming on, Watson had to move around and onto the next read.

Things are going at a million miles speed down on the field.
It's not Madden.
 
76Texan said:
Exactly.
Also, the window can close pretty quick in the NFL.

I had some long posts about a certain play where corrosion (and others) thought Watson had an open receiver underneath.
But the fact is that with the rusher(s) coming on, Watson had to move around and onto the next read.

Things are going at a million miles speed down on the field.
It's not Madden.
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Until he changes his style of play (Doubtful) there will be no SB's.
 
steelbtexan said:
Until he changes his style of play (Doubtful) there will be no SB's.
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If you're cool with Mahomes' hero selfish ball, you should be cool with DW4's...period. There is no credible scenario you can point to that shows its cool for 1 guy to be making throws like this
1632334400779.png an1632334622340.pngd it being unacceptable for the other guy.

Your logic makes no sense & you've not shown any evidence to back up what you assert. More importantly, more credible football minds flat out disagree with you.
 
Mr teX said:
If you're cool with Mahomes' hero selfish ball, you should be cool with DW4's...period. There is no credible scenario you can point to that shows its cool for 1 guy to be making throws like this
View attachment 9063 anView attachment 9064d it being unacceptable for the other guy.

Your logic makes no sense & you've not shown any evidence to back up what you assert. More importantly, more credible football minds flat out disagree with you.
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This was what I saw at Texas Tech (as the norm).

I had said that whoever take Mahomes should be willing to live with these kinds of plays.
Because this is what makes a QB special.

It's ironic that both @Corrosion and @steelbtexan both like Mahomes in the draft, too.

And now, they are criticizing Watson for the same style of play.
 
76Texan said:
This was what I saw at Texas Tech (as the norm).

I had said that whoever take Mahomes should be willing to live with these kinds of plays.
Because this is what makes a QB special.

It's ironic that both @Corrosion and @steelbtexan both like Mahomes in the draft, too.

And now, they are criticizing Watson for the same style of play.
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Its the exact reason that made me caution the Texans picking him...I was wrong obviously.

B/c he's force fed to us by the NFL, you see stuff like this on the reg from Mahomes. DW4 isn't/wasn't ever anywhere close to that bad. The most you'd see him do in college & in the pros is dancing behind the LOS & just holding the ball too long trying to make a play....but Mahomes does that as well too ...in addition to doing things like throwing "no look" passes....So its really no comparison of who plays hero more.

I liken it to when fans wanna get on a coach for not going for it on 4th & 1. You're hailed as a hero for "playing to win" & having balls of steel.....................as long as the attempt is successful. If you fail, you're getting raked over the coals & dubbed the dumbest coach on the planet for even thinking you could convert it, especially if the game is lost b/c of it.

Mahomes is great, but lets not act like that **** would play anywhere close to being ok here if we weren't winning. As it is, He'd be getting killed by the media for his wild child style of play with the Chiefs if they were losing.
 
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Mr teX said:
If you're cool with Mahomes' hero selfish ball, you should be cool with DW4's...period. There is no credible scenario you can point to that shows its cool for 1 guy to be making throws like this
View attachment 9063 anView attachment 9064d it being unacceptable for the other guy.

Your logic makes no sense & you've not shown any evidence to back up what you assert. More importantly, more credible football minds flat out disagree with you.
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He threw a crucial interception against the Ravens this past Sunday night. At the presser he said he shouldn’t have thrown that pass.
 
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Mr teX said:
Its the exact reason that made me caution the Texans picking him...I was wrong obviously.
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I'll admit that it was these kinds of plays that made me not like Mahomes as an NFL prospect. I didn't think he'd be able to continue doing this in the NFL... and I was wrong.

I don't have a problem with DW4 as a player. I don't have a problem with his style, necessarily. However, I think that at least some of our problems on offense was because of Watson's problems calling protections and getting us into the right plays. I think Devlin and OB (and Kelly) bore the brunt of that in the press (not that I'm defending Devlin or OB.) And to that extent, I agree with both sides in this discussion to some degree: I think he's a great player, but I think he might look for the big play too much and that gets him into trouble. IMO.
 
The Pencil Neck said:
I'll admit that it was these kinds of plays that made me not like Mahomes as an NFL prospect. I didn't think he'd be able to continue doing this in the NFL... and I was wrong.

I don't have a problem with DW4 as a player. I don't have a problem with his style, necessarily. However, I think that at least some of our problems on offense was because of Watson's problems calling protections and getting us into the right plays. I think Devlin and OB (and Kelly) bore the brunt of that in the press (not that I'm defending Devlin or OB.) And to that extent, I agree with both sides in this discussion to some degree: I think he's a great player, but I think he might look for the big play too much and that gets him into trouble. IMO.
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Did you notice how Tyrod played Hero Ball "twice" just in the first half of the Jaguars' game?
(Yes, there's an open receiver underneath, too).

I'm rewatching it yet another time (to look at the offensive line).
 
The Pencil Neck said:
I'll admit that it was these kinds of plays that made me not like Mahomes as an NFL prospect. I didn't think he'd be able to continue doing this in the NFL... and I was wrong.

I don't have a problem with DW4 as a player. I don't have a problem with his style, necessarily. However, I think that at least some of our problems on offense was because of Watson's problems calling protections and getting us into the right plays. I think Devlin and OB (and Kelly) bore the brunt of that in the press (not that I'm defending Devlin or OB.) And to that extent, I agree with both sides in this discussion to some degree: I think he's a great player, but I think he might look for the big play too much and that gets him into trouble. IMO.
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I think Devlin & OB were the main guys responsible for why he played that way. Devlin for his **** coaching of the o-line & BoB for the guys he brought in for Devlin to coach (& for not firing him) & the type of offensive passing philosophy he wanted to implement...which is down the field attack mode. This is why our offense typically lived and died with WFV. When he was healthy, our offense looked really good most of the time. When he wasn't, we typically sputtered. This is b/c if WFV did nothing else, he blew the top off of defenses..which in turn created space for the guys underneath on those deep over routes BoB loved to run with Nuk. The problem with this philosophy however is that those deep all or nothing routes take time to develop, time DW4 didn't typically have behind the **** o-line he usually had. The other issue? WFV was always injured.
 
Mr teX said:
Its the exact reason that made me caution the Texans picking him...I was wrong obviously.

B/c he's force fed to us by the NFL, you see stuff like this on the reg from Mahomes. DW4 isn't/wasn't ever anywhere close to that bad. The most you'd see him do in college & in the pros is dancing behind the LOS & just holding the ball too long trying to make a play....but Mahomes does that as well too ...in addition to doing things like throwing "no look" passes....So its really no comparison of who plays hero more.

I liken it to when fans wanna get on a coach for not going for it on 4th & 1. You're hailed as a hero for "playing to win" & having balls of steel.....................as long as the attempt is successful. If you fail, you're getting raked over the coals & dubbed the dumbest coach on the planet for even thinking you could convert it, especially if the game is lost b/c of it.

Mahomes is great, but lets not act like that **** would play anywhere close to being ok here if we weren't winning. As it is, He'd be getting killed by the media for his wild child style of play with the Chiefs if they were losing.
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thunderkyss said:
Well, their argument is he should use more of the short quick game & they showed plenty of open receivers on the all 22 to back up their claim.
Click to expand...

I agree with this point and certain series, quarters and even games they did use the short, quick game. But like many things they would go away from it. Instead of the defense taking it away, they would anticipate the defense taking it away.

My issue with Corrosion's point of view is it ignores the coaching and simply puts the W/L on the QB. Last time I checked, the QB gave input into his favorite plays, but it's the HC/OC who installs the weekly game plans and calls the plays. If the QB is holding the ball too long, you call plays to change his progressions. You call plays to make him read half the field. You reduce the number of option routes where he is holding the ball to see if the WRs are seeing the same thing he is seeing. I could go on and on.
 
The Pencil Neck said:
I'll admit that it was these kinds of plays that made me not like Mahomes as an NFL prospect. I didn't think he'd be able to continue doing this in the NFL... and I was wrong.

I don't have a problem with DW4 as a player. I don't have a problem with his style, necessarily. However, I think that at least some of our problems on offense was because of Watson's problems calling protections and getting us into the right plays. I think Devlin and OB (and Kelly) bore the brunt of that in the press (not that I'm defending Devlin or OB.) And to that extent, I agree with both sides in this discussion to some degree: I think he's a great player, but I think he might look for the big play too much and that gets him into trouble. IMO.
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Fair point. I would also counter. Can anyone confirm if Mahomes, Garapollo, Jackson, Allen or other young QBs are doing all the crap at the LOS that O'Brien ask of his QBs? Daboll is also from the Belichick tree. Is Allen calling protections? Hell, not even Peyton Manning was calling the OL protections.

Clint Stoerner mentioned Pep and Culley reduced the number of LOS adjustments and simplified the offense for the QBs and WRs. He hated the OL getting into their stance and then having to wait for all of these QB and WR adjustments at the LOS.
 
Earl34 said:
I agree with this point and certain series, quarters and even games they did use the short, quick game. But like many things they would go away from it. Instead of the defense taking it away, they would anticipate the defense taking it away.

My issue with Corrosion's point of view is it ignores the coaching and simply puts the W/L on the QB. Last time I checked, the QB gave input into his favorite plays, but it's the HC/OC who installs the weekly game plans and calls the plays. If the QB is holding the ball too long, you call plays to change his progressions. You call plays to make him read half the field. You reduce the number of option routes where he is holding the ball to see if the WRs are seeing the same thing he is seeing. I could go on and on.
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Bull O’Brien was onboard with Watson style of play. He actually welcomed it. Said it in one of his pressers.
 
Earl34 said:
Fair point. I would also counter. Can anyone confirm if Mahomes, Garapollo, Jackson, Allen or other young QBs are doing all the crap at the LOS that O'Brien ask of his QBs? Daboll is also from the Belichick tree. Is Allen calling protections? Hell, not even Peyton Manning was calling the OL protections.

Clint Stoerner mentioned Pep and Culley reduced the number of LOS adjustments and simplified the offense for the QBs and WRs. He hated the OL getting into their stance and then having to wait for all of these QB and WR adjustments at the LOS.
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That's one of the reasons I didn't put the blame completely on DW. It's one thing to have a system; it's another thing to be so hidebound to the system that you can't craft it to your personnel's strengths, weaknesses, and abilities. It's like we went from Kubiak's very restricted set of adjustments by the QB to OB's insane amount of adjustments.
 
if mills and driskel both get hurt "knocks on wood" then i wonder if the trout watson out or just get someone off the streets

that would be funny i would def bring out my popcorn
 
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