TK_Gamer
Veteran
yes and some guys have a hard time accepting the team we have and that we have to support them and not put every thing under a negative microscope.
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Last Drive Before the Half
- Thread starter Vinny
- Start date
yes and some guys have a hard time accepting the team we have and that we have to support them and not put every thing under a negative microscope.
I wasn't real happy with that series - especially since Miami got a chance for a Hail Mary anyway - but I recall that pass pass pass in a similar situation got Gilbride a punch in the nose. Kubiak was afraid of a similar outcome (giving up points right before half - not a punch in the nose).
A different debate would be raging given the hindsight argument if Carr had fumbled in the pocket or thrown an int deep in our own territory with 1:30 left in the half (or, yes, if a meteor would have hit the earth but that would have been far less likely). Kubiak would then be getting a virtual punch in the nose from some people for not protecting the football deep in his own end when the offense struggled to put up 3 points in the half. That criticism might have even come from some of the same people who are criticizing him for having "no balls" because he didn't 'go for it.'
Kubiak has answered the original question in at least two different forums over the last two days so I get why he did it. I can also see the point of diminishing returns has been triggered for this thread. If y'all want to debate whether Kubiak has balls or not, have at it. I think he probably does.
A different debate would be raging given the hindsight argument if Carr had fumbled in the pocket or thrown an int deep in our own territory with 1:30 left in the half (or, yes, if a meteor would have hit the earth but that would have been far less likely). Kubiak would then be getting a virtual punch in the nose from some people for not protecting the football deep in his own end when the offense struggled to put up 3 points in the half. That criticism might have even come from some of the same people who are criticizing him for having "no balls" because he didn't 'go for it.'
Kubiak has answered the original question in at least two different forums over the last two days so I get why he did it. I can also see the point of diminishing returns has been triggered for this thread. If y'all want to debate whether Kubiak has balls or not, have at it. I think he probably does.
Don't get too enamored with yourself there big boy. Some of us peons have purty fair comprehenshun skillz.
TheOgre
All Pro
EXACTLY
sleepwalker
Waterboy
Culpepper and his O ran the 2 min drill at that end of the game and completely owned our defense in about 5 plays...We couldnt sub or even call the right play...It was truely ugly.
Kubiak knew that if we gave them time to run their 2 min offense before the half, they were going to eat up yards and score.
What Kubiak did was keep that from happening and I am glad he had the balls to do it.
Kubiak knew that if we gave them time to run their 2 min offense before the half, they were going to eat up yards and score.
What Kubiak did was keep that from happening and I am glad he had the balls to do it.
This might be hard for some to believe, but I remember saying out loud, "C'mon Gary, don't sit on it. Try to go down and get another 3!" But I was going to wait before coming all unglued, to hear Gary's explanation as to why he did it the way he did. But at the same time, I mentally read off in my mind the list of posters who would use it as an excuse to beat him over the head before even listening to what he had to say. And it turned out, I was pretty accurate. So the agenda argument works both ways.
Yupp! Exactly. That's how I view it. But then what do I know. I don't have the ability to comprehend what I'm reading.
Talk about both ways - had we lost the game some, not all, posters who are saying he did the right thing would be calling for his head and saying it was obvious it was the wrong thing to do. Many people are experts in hindsight. I'm not directing this at you personally.
Also, had we gone for it and been successful (which doesn't seem to get considered much) it would have been another corner turned for the team.
Also, had we gone for it and been successful (which doesn't seem to get considered much) it would have been another corner turned for the team.
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
R
real
Guest
Had we lost the game, I for one wouldn't have looked back at that series and criticized Kubes for not going for it....There were many more reasons for us to have lost than not going for it at the half.....And the reason that us going for it and actually getting it doesn't get considered much is because....the Texans hadn't given us a reason in two years to make us believe they could, let alone THAT game in which they mustered a grand total 3 points in the first half.....I think it was a risk/reward decision, and the risk far outweighed the reward....even if we'd have gotten the three points that doesn't garauntee a win...and not going for it certainly didn't cost us....It just wasn't worth it at the time...This is Kubiaks career...his livelihood...how he feeds his familia...It's easy for us fans to want to press on the gas...But what if that would have backfired....If you go for it something bad can happen...if you don't...nothing bad can happen....
Instead of looking at it like he didn't have faith in the offense...Maybe he just had faith in his coaching staff to make half time adjustments and come up with a win...go into the half tied, and beat em in the second...we were getting the ball first...I mean it was a gamble...he didn't want to gamble, and I am not sure how you can really say it was the wrong decision...You may have wanted him to be more agressive...but honestly how can you say it was "wrong"...
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Huh? There were 3 plays--1 a dump-off to RB, 2 a spike to stop the clock and 3 the hail mary. What the Eagles did before the half in under a minute was getting owned what Miami did was take a shot.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
there would'nt even be this discussion if the Texans showed effeicency and exacution by running the clock out in the 1st half, LOL. At some point this scheme which is predicated on the ground game must have the ability to control the clock, this was one of those instances. Just a case of the will of the coach not being fullfilled by the players, the entire unit taking the blame, not the playcalling 
Frills
Waterboy
While not popular it was smart.
If the RB broke one for 20 yds then you would see a 2 min offense. He didn't so we sat on the ball. If there was a turnover and Miami went up by 7 at the end everyone on the damn board would be calling for heads stating we should have learned from the previous games and just sat on the ball.
Unlike the previous staff, this regime can make adjustments at the half, they know it and utilized it. The minute that a coach or GM makes a decision based on fan reaction, he should be fired.
When the boos came down in the 2nd quarter of the 4th game I thought I was in fuggin Philly. The fans are a classless bunch. No wonder the damn Oilers left.
Reliant Stadium could be one of the greatest homefield advantages in the league, but will never be utilized, because the fans are pieces of crap and will throw the team under the bus when they disagree with the littlest thing.
I wish just once everyone that boo'ed would put on some pads and help the team or go coach a pop warner team and let me know afterwards how friggin smart they are.
A coach has to know what to call not only based on game situations, but as well as the risk/reward as it pertains to the mindset of the team. If there is a3 in 5 chance of getting 3 points at the end of the first half, that posession if you risk going for it is worth 1.667 points. The 2 times it fails would it negatively affect the team by more than the 1.667 points? In that situation hell yes it would. So statistically it was smart to sit on it.
If the RB broke one for 20 yds then you would see a 2 min offense. He didn't so we sat on the ball. If there was a turnover and Miami went up by 7 at the end everyone on the damn board would be calling for heads stating we should have learned from the previous games and just sat on the ball.
Unlike the previous staff, this regime can make adjustments at the half, they know it and utilized it. The minute that a coach or GM makes a decision based on fan reaction, he should be fired.
When the boos came down in the 2nd quarter of the 4th game I thought I was in fuggin Philly. The fans are a classless bunch. No wonder the damn Oilers left.
Reliant Stadium could be one of the greatest homefield advantages in the league, but will never be utilized, because the fans are pieces of crap and will throw the team under the bus when they disagree with the littlest thing.
I wish just once everyone that boo'ed would put on some pads and help the team or go coach a pop warner team and let me know afterwards how friggin smart they are.
A coach has to know what to call not only based on game situations, but as well as the risk/reward as it pertains to the mindset of the team. If there is a3 in 5 chance of getting 3 points at the end of the first half, that posession if you risk going for it is worth 1.667 points. The 2 times it fails would it negatively affect the team by more than the 1.667 points? In that situation hell yes it would. So statistically it was smart to sit on it.
R
real
Guest
chuckm
Veteran
Just a heads up--I don't think the reaction to your post will be too kind.
If his avatar is any indication, he doesn't care too much about receiving negative reaction .....
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
Great line, but hollow as most of your posts as it is has no relevance to some of your target audience.
wags
Veteran
Frills
Waterboy
Just a heads up--I don't think the reaction to your post will be too kind.
Studies have shown that a college fan will never bet against their team, but a pro football fan will bet against their team without thinking twice. College fans live and die with their team, pro fans like to kill their teams, no matter how the team does they find something to nitpick. Houston is a bandwagon city, they support teams that do well, but don't support, or rip the hell out of teams who struggle. Reliant was 80-85% full sunday, last year it dropped to <50%. Sports here has become more of a "take a client to a game" versus true fan support.
Look back at draft day, people booed Mario when picked. Sure most wanted Bush/Young but the fact remained Mario was a Texan and you should support him. Bashing a decision after the fact doesn't do jack. Complaining that a player isn't living up to his bonus doesn't mean jack. Look at Philly when they drafted McNabb, now look where Ricky is, the people who booed look damn intelligent now don't they?
I guess its just a helluvalot easier to piss and moan than to support a struggling team.
TK_Gamer
Veteran
I think there is quite a bit of relavence actually. because alot of the audience uses the same knee-jerk negative reaction to every decision thats made or not made or find a way to turn every positive into a negative. but all that being said in reference to the thread, at least we didnt go for it, make it to the goal line and go for it on 4th down and lose by a field goal. indy 31 jets 28 ouch
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Oops.
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
I do not think I have ever seen a post that I am more "anti" in my time on this board. Talk about making a mountain out of a molehill. So we have gone from debating a decision on the two minute drill to Houston fans being awful? Very nice.
Frills
Waterboy
I probbably should have made a new thread with those thoughts, but take a look back at most of the threads about Carr, the draft, and most decisions the Texans have made, and you'll see why this is frustrating.
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
I think there is quite a bit of relavence actually. because alot of the audience uses the same knee-jerk negative reaction to every decision thats made or not made or find a way to turn every positive into a negative. but all that being said in reference to the thread, at least we didnt go for it, make it to the goal line and go for it on 4th down and lose by a field goal. indy 31 jets 28 ouch
Context must be used. As crazy as it sounds there are Texans fans who could give a rats butt about the Oilers.
I think most people see positives and negatives about the team, just not the same set as those they are arguing with. It is easy to fall into the trap that everyone on the board always says yada yada yada because that is what it feels like sometimes.
For instance I see some good positives from Carr, Dre, and Moulds and very good things from Demeco, just to name a few. I also see some negatives in the secondary that we just couldnt fix this off-season with all our other priorities and some big negatives in the o-line that I thought we were addressing but apparently didnt address very well.
I see some good and bad play calls/executions. Ive been one who has called for more risk taking from Carr over the years throw the ball to Dre in coverage every now and then rather than take a sack for example so I like that. I wanted to go for it in at the end of the first half last game. Im glad to see the downfield passing this year. I like to see the tight ends finally involved in the passing offense. I dont like not blitzing because it is too risky to put pressure on the secondary.
I dont think anyone on the board is always wrong. I know no one is always right. I post my opinions and try to defend them, but in the end they are my opinions, and the good football oriented discussions are fun. Heck, Ive even gone so far to change my mind and therefore become (hopefully) a more knowledgeable fan. I am willing to listen to and consider well reasoned and supported arguments.
The ones that drive me crazy are the ones posters who think they are always realistic while everyone else is either too positive or too negative. Realistic doesnt mean I agree with myself.
Deep breath I feel better now.
For instance I see some good positives from Carr, Dre, and Moulds and very good things from Demeco, just to name a few. I also see some negatives in the secondary that we just couldnt fix this off-season with all our other priorities and some big negatives in the o-line that I thought we were addressing but apparently didnt address very well.
I see some good and bad play calls/executions. Ive been one who has called for more risk taking from Carr over the years throw the ball to Dre in coverage every now and then rather than take a sack for example so I like that. I wanted to go for it in at the end of the first half last game. Im glad to see the downfield passing this year. I like to see the tight ends finally involved in the passing offense. I dont like not blitzing because it is too risky to put pressure on the secondary.
I dont think anyone on the board is always wrong. I know no one is always right. I post my opinions and try to defend them, but in the end they are my opinions, and the good football oriented discussions are fun. Heck, Ive even gone so far to change my mind and therefore become (hopefully) a more knowledgeable fan. I am willing to listen to and consider well reasoned and supported arguments.
The ones that drive me crazy are the ones posters who think they are always realistic while everyone else is either too positive or too negative. Realistic doesnt mean I agree with myself.
Deep breath I feel better now.
Bamaborn-Texasbred
Rookie
Get some history on the Oilers before you make an uninformed statement like this. The Oilers left town because just a few years after Harris County added 10,000 seats to the Dome, Bud Adams demanded that the city build him a downtown facility at no cost to him. He said he would move his team if he didn't get it. (great public relations guy that Bud Adams) They told him to start packing, and as much as I loved the Oilers, I couldn't blame them.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
We may have had PLENTY of time to score, but considering how we've played @ the end of the half all of our other games, whether it was defense or offense, I think Kubes just wanted to get into the half without any big momentum swinging; (i.e. fumble snap, int. etc.). I thought that we might take a shot too, but i understood why he did what he did.
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
This is an outlet for fans to share their fanatical takes. There are two things constant in my time on this board - an awful product and loyal fans. Why any one would turn the team's ineptness, not this specific situation, on the die hards is beyond me. I vent my frustration as a release to keep me coming back. I never point it at the fans, because without all of my comrades on this board, there would be no reciprocity of passion and therefore the fanaticism would die.
Losing stinks. Winning is nice. Winning in a different way than we won under Capers will be the penultimate win for me in our history. If you want to talk about Carr's great fake at the goal line and want to talk about Mario, the much maligned and ripped down rookie on this board, saving the game on that two point conversion start a thread. If you do not want to talk about the two minute drive you do not have to pop in, the thread will eventually go to page 2 and fall into obscurity. Passion is an awesome thing and hard for some to understand, if you do not like the volume of that passion then turn the channel or control it with kindness, but using others passion against them will do you no favors in achieveing your goal of having good fans.
Yes it's frustrating, but any decision made is going to have positive and negative reactions. It is just that the people that don't like a particular decision tend to be more vocal about it. Sometimes senselessly.
I just try not to fall into the trap that since someone is negative about one thing that they are negative about everything. I say try because I have fallen for it before. Mea culpa.
R
real
Guest
Why would you argue if you thought you were wrong ?? Who doesn't always think they're being "realistic" ??? If you don't think you are being realistic why are you even arguing??? There are certain things such as the topic being discussed in this thread, that I am just not going to budge on...and i'm sure that there are topics that others feel the same way about.....However I listen to everyone....and I have changed my mind on certain things.....but for the most part I'm going to "agree with myself"...
Kaiser Toro is correct, but I can sympathize with Frills' frustration.
Maybe this goes along with following a struggling NFL team, but there seem's like there's an underlying fundamental mistrust among a lot of posters on this message board regarding other posters ability and desire to talk about an issue objectively, without bringing in a subconcious axe to grind.
I am probably pretty much guilty of this myself, and I got to try to do better.
jerek
Pro Hobbyist
While I disagree with your application of statistics -- I would figure that just about any of our drives has a 3 in 5 chance of succeeding and a chance of a turnover and opponent's score, so what, we just punt it away? -- and your conclusion as to sitting on the ball being the smart thing to do, I do understand and agree with what you are saying about fans booing. I never boo my team and I think it totally classless and spoiled-bratish that so many of our people will boo David Carr, the coaches, the owner, and really any player for just about anything, including a bad haircut. For pete's sake, sell your tickets or give them away if you're going to come to the game and boo. It makes zero sense to pay so much for something you are going to be pissed off about, and the food sucks too. My thought is if you're going to pay for the game, you might as well enjoy yourself and support your team regardless.
People can look into their own motivations and see if they are being realistic. For instance, I bet some of the people who predicted 10, 11, 12, or even 13 wins know they were being more "hopeful" than "realistic" based on last season, new coaches, and some new players.
On the other hand, people can be too negative too. Some people may complain about a coach's plan or a players on-field decision because they don't like the results, but many of them know that "realistically" the coach and players know more about what is going on than they do.
I didn't mean to imply that people argue when they know are wrong (at least not most of the time). But if both sides are "right" and "realistic" - why is there an argument? I'm not even going to address the gray area between absolutes.
R
real
Guest
That's where the argument starts...Both sides ARE right...or atleast both sides think they are....
But I don't disagree with your main point...
TK_Gamer
Veteran
actually I think I was being a little too ironical, as the relavance was to the inferred audience of this board, not to whether or not they used to be oilers fans.
Fanaticism is extremist, which is always close to the edge of something or another.
I get a kick out of the folks dogging the booing, though. What, did you expect them to cheer the fact that our sub-par, mediocre offense lacked the faith of the head coach to run a two minute drill?
Honestly, guys, that's a reality check that some weren't prepared for, and it's a scientific fact that this particular realization causes spontaneous "booing" sounds in humans as a natural defense to prevent heads from exploding.
Booing is a relief valve....without it....
<---he should've booed
Frills
Waterboy
Fanaticism is extremist, which is always close to the edge of something or another.
I get a kick out of the folks dogging the booing, though. What, did you expect them to cheer the fact that our sub-par, mediocre offense lacked the faith of the head coach to run a two minute drill?
Honestly, guys, that's a reality check that some weren't prepared for, and it's a scientific fact that this particular realization causes spontaneous "booing" sounds in humans as a natural defense to prevent heads from exploding.
Booing is a relief valve....without it....
Not running the 2 min drill wasn't because of the mediocre offense, but rather the mental state of the D if our drill failed and Mia. scored. Add another 30 secs to the clock at the end of the half, I think Miami would have put points on the board.
Stampede
Waterboy
That was my thought also. I would have like to see us with a different play on 3rd down becuz they were gonna call timeout anyway. But i agreed with the first two running plays. Its hard to question the play calling when a team wins the game, but one or two plays that go the other way and we lose. So I can understand why people feel strongly about both sides of the issue.
but not going for it is like saying you know our offense will fail...... hence the lack of faith in our mediocre offense... which failed to get a first down...
hollywood_texan
All Pro
Let me understand this, you believe the Texans don't have a mediocre offense, in addition they have the highest rated QB in the league, and they don't run the 2 minute drill because of the defense and putting them in a bad position.
Ummmm...
Maybe the offense only getting 3 points in the first half had something to do with it?
Getting only 3 point in the first half against a marginal defense like the Dolphins, that isn't mediocre at best?
I just don't get it.
Kubiak's decision was more about the offense than the defense.
Since when has an offensive minded coach even cared about the defense and putting them in a bad position?
That is a great question for Buddy Ryan to answer!!! I bet he would come out swinging!!! Bring back Buddy Ryan!!!!
R
real
Guest
Now there's an argument....
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
...it's just too damn expensive. 
S
SESupergenius
Guest
I am tired of this attitude that we "can't do this" and we "can't do that". We've seen that attitute, it got us 2-14 and when we finally let go, out team does well. We need to get away from the loser mentality and thinking that we are not very good because if we keep saying and doing things as the status quo, then guess what, we will never break out. I want us to actually use our 2-minute offense WHEN THERE ARE 2 MINUTES left in the game, wow, what a concept. Fact is, we were 1 play from being tied up in the game and we just didn't play to win. The defense was call upon to blitz more this game, well the other half of this equation is for the offense to score and make plays.
Battle Red Flash
Waterboy
I agree totally. Just saw this thread. I was SO MAD. I almost booed, and I never boo the home team. But I was mighty close. Please, Kubes don't play not to lose. Play to win.
HOU-TEX
Ah, Football!
According to what he said yesterday, he's going to be more aggressive. We'll see.
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