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Kubiak is like the the girl that teases you on the phone, and when you invite
her over, gives every excuse to not drop draws. Sometimes, as a man,
you need to convince yourself that you CAN do better. Enough with
the teasin.'
I would argue this simple fact as a reason to continue forward with Kubiak:
He has improved this team every year and I see no reason to believe that won't continue to be the case. I know that's not a very sexy answer but it's a very good reason to keep him. He is not without fault, you could easily argue that no HC is. Even some that are considered to be "great" have made crucial mistakes costing their teams victories. But so long as this team continues to improve...
He has improved this team every year and I see no reason to believe that won't continue to be the case.
2009 - Week 13 - 5-7
2008 - Week 13 - 5-7
2007 - Week 13 - 5-7
Do you really think that we've improved as a team since last year? If so, how?
Vinny posted this in another thread, so I'll just paste it over here:
2007: 8-8
2008: 8-8
2009: ???
So maybe you're right; maybe the team really has gotten better from year to year. If so, it sure as hell hasn't shown in the one category that matters. And I see no reason to believe that won't continue to be the case.
At the end of the season, you are what your record says you are. When it's obvious that the talent has improved, but the record stays the same...who do you blame?I knew that this would be the major rebuttal.
I can see that the record has not changed at this point in the season. I'm not blind to that. I would argue that overall the team has not performed at the level that it is capable. But it has improved. No one can deny that. Our record is what it is. But that doesn't mean that this team isn't better. It is. And as long as the team continues to improve then eventually the wins will follow. So long as the team continues to improve...
At the end of the season, you are what your record says you are. When it's obvious that the talent has improved, but the record stays the same...who do you blame?
Vinny posted this in another thread, so I'll just paste it over here:
2007: 8-8
2008: 8-8
2009: ???
So maybe you're right; maybe the team really has gotten better from year to year. If so, it sure as hell hasn't shown in the one category that matters. And I see no reason to believe that won't continue to be the case.
Im not a Kubiak stay groupie, nor a fire Kubiak groupie, but somewhere undecided.
That being said, the argument for keeping is is really quite simple: Football is fun to watch in Houston.
We have an aggressive defense, we have a prolific offense, and we have some pretty good star power.
We've lost 7 games so far this season, but only 1 of them has been an ugly loss. We've had a chance to tie or win the game in the 4th quarter in 6 of those 7 losses (if memory serves me correctly).
I sit down at 1PM Est and know that Im going to see something exciting.
A few years ago, I sat down and was unsure if I was going to be embarassed. Im not embarassed anymore.
I watch football because I want to see close games and fun teams. Houston fits that category perfectly
The defense HAS improved, the offense has REGRESSED.
The talent HAS improved, the on-field discipline has REGRESSED.
The team has had LESS injuries, starters such as Slaton and Walter: REGRESS
The road record improves, the home record PLUMMETS
When you improve and regress at the same rate, what is your net gain?
Where is the NET GAIN in this regime? Please. Show it to me.
For those that are for keeping Kubiak because of his "constant improvement", I have a question.
I am not buying that the team is so improved this year, but I'll posit that for this post. What if the team doesn't get beat too bad in losses next year, shows improved play in some aspects, and everything else stays pretty much the same. The Texans are yet again improved.
If this "improved" team finishes 8-8 next year, do you give Kubiak a new contract or let him go?
Im not a Kubiak stay groupie, nor a fire Kubiak groupie, but somewhere undecided.
That being said, the argument for keeping is is really quite simple: Football is fun to watch in Houston.
We have an aggressive defense, we have a prolific offense, and we have some pretty good star power.
We've lost 7 games so far this season, but only 1 of them has been an ugly loss. We've had a chance to tie or win the game in the 4th quarter in 6 of those 7 losses (if memory serves me correctly).
I sit down at 1PM Est and know that Im going to see something exciting.
A few years ago, I sat down and was unsure if I was going to be embarassed. Im not embarassed anymore.
I watch football because I want to see close games and fun teams. Houston fits that category perfectly
The defense HAS improved, the offense has REGRESSED.
The talent HAS improved, the on-field discipline has REGRESSED.
The team has had LESS injuries, starters such as Slaton and Walter: REGRESS
The road record improves, the home record PLUMMETS
When you improve and regress at the same rate, what is your net gain?
Where is the NET GAIN in this regime? Please. Show it to me.
See and that is what I don't get. Many team out there want more. If their coach isn't winning in the playoffs, they wan tto fire him. People here seem content to be .500, fun and keep the nice guy. I guess that is fine but that isn't a great goal.
At the end of the season, you are what your record says you are. When it's obvious that the talent has improved, but the record stays the same...who do you blame?
I don't think it's that simple.
Runner said:For those that are for keeping Kubiak because of his "constant improvement", I have a question.
I am not buying that the team is so improved this year, but I'll posit that for this post. What if the team doesn't get beat too bad in losses next year, shows improved play in some aspects, and everything else stays pretty much the same. The Texans are yet again improved.
If this "improved" team finishes 8-8 next year, do you give Kubiak a new contract or let him go?
Oh, but it is that simple. You are the one making it complicated.
The simplicity is that winning more than you lose gives you a winning record.
If your winning record is good enough, you make the playoffs.
If you don't lose in the playoffs, you become champion.
See how simple the NFL is? Why complicate such an easy-to-understand system? The league does not look at offensive or defensive rankings, or turnover ratios, or individual records, or even statistical improvement, to determine who makes the cut of entering the playoffs.
If you're a NCAA football fan, I can understand the need to complicate things, but this is the NFL, which is a results-driven league, plain and simple.
Im not content to be 8-8, Im content to watch good football because its something we've never had before.
Teams don't fire their coach if they make the playoffs. Teams fire their coach if they consistently make the playoffs and lose early.
You have to have something consistently, then fail to show improvement, before getting canned.
Houston teams have never been consistently entertaining to watch. We've had an embarassing team for years. THis is the first year that I feel we're consistently putting out an "Any Given Sunday" type team that can beat anyone. If we had been doing this and ending up 8-8 for 2 or 3 years, then yeah, fire his ass. But this is the first year the defense and offense have both shown signs of clicking together at the same time.
Like I said, if we go 8-8 or 9-7 again, its a no brainer. But dont accuse me of being happy with mediocrity. If anything, you can say Im scared of regressing. As this is the first time we've consisntely been enjoyable, Im not lookin gforward to the possibility of slipping back into the "bad ol' days"
Come on - this is a simple question that shouldn't require waffling.
If constant improvement is all that matters, then of course you give him a new contract.
If you would not extend him, then the only real difference between you and those wanting to get rid him at this point is patience.
I guess it is a hard question to answer at that.
barrett said:Come on - this is a simple question that shouldn't require waffling.
If constant improvement is all that matters, then of course you give him a new contract.
If you would not extend him, then the only real difference between you and those wanting to get rid him at this point is patience.
I guess it is a hard question to answer at that.
So long as I feel like we are heading in the right direction. I'm sure that's as "simple" a decision that Bob McNair will make in his career.
It's harder for me to see us improving and going 8-8 again. Then again, that's not even assured this year. So let's see how this plays out. If they loose 3 of the next four it may be a moot point anyway.
For the last three seasons, we've improved in some areas and regressed
in others. The rate of improvement has not been higher than the regression,
so we're looking better while finishing in the same place. Last year, we
were one of the least penalized teams in the league, but our overall talent
was less.
This year, we have more talent, yet this squad makes boneheaded penalties
right when they need to be locked in. Our quarterbacks turned the
ball over a ton last year. Schaub has started every game, AND cut his
interceptions and fumbles, BUT, the runningbacks have started turning it
over as much as the QB's last year.
Plus 1 minus 1 equals ZERO progress over the last THREE seasons.
We just look DAMN GOOD while losing. Set your standards higher, and so
will your owner. At least with the Rockets, you can SEE them trying. The
Astros just talk about it, and thus, can barely draw flies. The jury is
still out on the Texans, though. Bob better not screw this up.
How does a comment like that make any logical sense?
It's harder for me to see us improving and going 8-8 again.
The fire-Kubiak crowd is SIMPLE and EASY to understand.
Simplicity is lost on you. YOU keep saying that they improved, but then blather on about intangibles and stats and things that really do not mean a damn thing at the end of the year.
The ONLY thing that really matter is wins and losses. Yet you want to complicate the issue with some sort of zeal based in quantum physics to explain the most simplest of ideas. We are still 5-7 at week 13, which is a trend that has repeated itself for three seasons now. Please, explain how this is IMPROVEMENT without bending over backward or making some other asinine illogical statement(s).
The fire-Kubiak crowd is SIMPLE and EASY to understand. Your logic requires suspension of reality and lots of hope and what ifs and nonsense. You have not made even ONE point that could be considered a sound reason for keeping such a mediocre coach.
And you want to talk about logic?! PUH-LEEZ!
So you can't tell me why Kubiak deserves to stay based on the job he is doing.
You have to have A winner before you can have a LASTING one. Where's this "winner" you speak of?Build a lasting winner the right way.
I'll certainly agree with you that the fire Kubiak crown is simple.
We've lost by a touchdown or less in every single loss this year.
Can you wrap your head around that?
barrett said:For the last three seasons, we've improved in some areas and regressed
in others. The rate of improvement has not been higher than the regression,
so we're looking better while finishing in the same place. Last year, we
were one of the least penalized teams in the league, but our overall talent
was less.
This year, we have more talent, yet this squad makes boneheaded penalties
right when they need to be locked in. Our quarterbacks turned the
ball over a ton last year. Schaub has started every game, AND cut his
interceptions and fumbles, BUT, the runningbacks have started turning it
over as much as the QB's last year.
Plus 1 minus 1 equals ZERO progress over the last THREE seasons.
We just look DAMN GOOD while losing. Set your standards higher, and so
will your owner. At least with the Rockets, you can SEE them trying. The
Astros just talk about it, and thus, can barely draw flies. The jury is
still out on the Texans, though. Bob better not screw this up.
That is inaccurate.
So doesn't improving the talent give us a better chance to win? Doesn't reducing mental mistakes at the QB position give us a better chance to win? Looking good while loosing is an improvement over past seasons under Kubiak.
I think Bob McNair and I have similar standards when it comes to this franchise. Build a lasting winner the right way.
You have to have A winner before you can have a LASTING one. Where's this "winner" you speak of?
9-7 (or better) = Winner
8-8 = ???
7-9 (or worse) = Loser
DON'T CARE HOW, I WANT IT NOW!!!
Yet, according to you, we have this highly ranked offense with a much improved team. And the best that they can do is status quo.
Okey-dokey whateva'
Pull your head out and wrap it around that.
I'll certainly agree with you that the fire Kubiak crown is simple.
We've lost by a touchdown or less in every single loss this year.
Can you wrap your head around that?
I quitting pressing you to answer the earlier question because you showed me you couldn't commit to an answer. I was fine with that because that was an answer in itself.
Then you start back up with this self-righteous "MY way is the RIGHT way" stuff. Therefore, I'll ask you to put your cloak of arrogance back on and tell me:
If Kubiak leads an improved Texans team to an 8-8 record next year, do you think he should get a new contract?
Yes or no. Just tell us the "right way".
Simplicity is lost on you. YOU keep saying that they improved, but then blather on about intangibles and stats and things that really do not mean a damn thing at the end of the year.
The ONLY thing that really matter is wins and losses. Yet you want to complicate the issue with some sort of zeal based in quantum physics to explain the most simplest of ideas. We are still 5-7 at week 13, which is a trend that has repeated itself for three seasons now. Please, explain how this is IMPROVEMENT without bending over backward or making some other asinine illogical statement(s).
The fire-Kubiak crowd is SIMPLE and EASY to understand. Your logic requires suspension of reality and lots of hope and what ifs and nonsense. You have not made even ONE point that could be considered a sound reason for keeping such a mediocre coach.
And you want to talk about logic?! PUH-LEEZ!
Can you wrap your head around the fact that Kubiak isnt any better a coach than he was 4 years ago? He continues to make bad decisions in every aspect of coaching. Personell, in game adjustments, clock management and game preperation. And when the game matters the most do you really have confidence that he will make a good decision?
Kubiak has taken this team as far as his coaching abillity will allow him to. You yourself have pointed out that the team has gotten more talented and has improved in almost every aspect, yet the results have been the same year after year. Its simple deduction, everyone and everything about this team has gotten better except Kubiaks coaching ability. There are mountain sized piles of evidence to prove just that, and a lot of it is expressed in the pro Kubiaks posts, even yours.
I must have missed myself talking about offense rankings when my head was up there. Or you're putting words in my mouth that is up my ass. Why are you in here with me?
IAt this stage, apparently, the best the team can do is .500. My assessment that despite the win/loss record the team is much improved. How do you not see that? Do you really only see the win/loss record? That is too simplistic of a view in my opinion. I think there is plenty of evidence to suggest that Kubiak is on the right track and therefore should remain the head coach.
Please explain by what measure you are determining "improvement", Einstein. .
I'm really getting tired of saying this. That improvement that you are arguing as to why he should go is the same reason I'm using in my argument that he should stay.
Try this measurement (DVOA)... from Texan Chick's blog today-
"Bill Barnwell: Our projection for the Texans in 2009 was 6.9 wins. Seeing as that they're 5-7 at the moment, they're going to end up pretty close to that number.
The reason why our projection was so low despite their record a year ago had to do with a combination of things; their DVOA (our stat which compares each play in a season to the league average after adjusting for down, distance, situation, and the quality of the opposition) wasn't all that great a year ago, at -6.8%, which was 23rd in the league. They had a tough schedule ahead of them, since we were projecting Indy to be very good (albeit not undefeated) and Jacksonville to be a 10-win playoff team. We also look at things like age of starters and continuity of lineups.
This year, their DVOA is actually far better. At 10.2%, they're 14th in the league, just ahead of the 9-3 Bengals. The reason why has to do with how they've played, independent of their win-loss record -- they've dominated the Colts at times before losing, handily beat those same Bengals, and lost six games by a touchdown or less. With a little luck -- a couple of bounces here or there, a fumble recovery, a swatted ball that hit the ground instead of falling into a defender's arms -- they could very easily be 7-5 or 8-6. "
I must have missed myself talking about offense rankings when my head was up there. Or you're putting words in my mouth that is up my ass. Why are you in here with me?
At this stage, apparently, the best the team can do is .500. My assessment that despite the win/loss record the team is much improved. How do you not see that? Do you really only see the win/loss record? That is too simplistic of a view in my opinion. I think there is plenty of evidence to suggest that Kubiak is on the right track and therefore should remain the head coach.