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Kubiak Supporters: Why should he stay?
- Thread starter Mr. White
- Start date
barrett
All Pro
Perhaps you should just pin her down and make her a winning coach.
I think it's always exciting to consider a new HC as an improvement. One thing that bringing in a new guy provides is a "reset" of sorts and I think that tends to give fans (who are very emotional) a new sense of hope and a willingness to forgive somethings because it's new.
It's harder as a fan to accept that more of the same could possibly be a better recipe for success.
I would argue this simple fact as a reason to continue forward with Kubiak:
He has improved this team every year and I see no reason to believe that won't continue to be the case. I know that's not a very sexy answer but it's a very good reason to keep him. He is not without fault, you could easily argue that no HC is. Even some that are considered to be "great" have made crucial mistakes costing their teams victories. But so long as this team continues to improve...
Mr. White
Retired OLine Coach
Do you really think that we've improved as a team since last year? If so, how?
eriadoc
Texan-American
Vinny posted this in another thread, so I'll just paste it over here:
2007: 8-8
2008: 8-8
2009: ???
So maybe you're right; maybe the team really has gotten better from year to year. If so, it sure as hell hasn't shown in the one category that matters. And I see no reason to believe that won't continue to be the case.
barrett
All Pro
I do. I think our QB is much more comfortable in the system. I think our team is much more comfortable under adversity. (not comfortable enough but much improved) I think the defense is immensely improved. I think out depth is improved (not enough but considerably better). I think the DLine play has improved against the run 100%. I think our LB play is a top 5 group. Could you say that last year? I think our young CB's played a smarter, more sound brand of football than this team has ever had (except #23). I think as a unit we have an improved pass rush (you can talk sacks but I can also talk pressure). I think we have improved safety play 1000% (depth is clearly an issue still).
I would argue that of all the units on our team, only 3 have not improved. The running game the OLine and Kris Brown. You could argue that the OLine's lack of improvement / regression could be attributed to injury. You could argue that the run games regression could be attributed to the OLine's regression. (Although Slaton struggled regardless but his vision wasn't very good last year either).
Every other facet of this team has gotten better, including the coaching.
barrett
All Pro
I knew that this would be the major rebuttal.
I can see that the record has not changed at this point in the season. I'm not blind to that. I would argue that overall the team has not performed at the level that it is capable. But it has improved. No one can deny that. Our record is what it is. But that doesn't mean that this team isn't better. It is. And as long as the team continues to improve then eventually the wins will follow. So long as the team continues to improve...
At the end of the season, you are what your record says you are. When it's obvious that the talent has improved, but the record stays the same...who do you blame?
DexmanC
Hall of Fame
The defense HAS improved, the offense has REGRESSED.
The talent HAS improved, the on-field discipline has REGRESSED.
The team has had LESS injuries, starters such as Slaton and Walter: REGRESS
The road record improves, the home record PLUMMETS
When you improve and regress at the same rate, what is your net gain?
Where is the NET GAIN in this regime? Please. Show it to me.
The talent HAS improved, the on-field discipline has REGRESSED.
The team has had LESS injuries, starters such as Slaton and Walter: REGRESS
The road record improves, the home record PLUMMETS
When you improve and regress at the same rate, what is your net gain?
Where is the NET GAIN in this regime? Please. Show it to me.
barrett
All Pro
I don't think it's that simple. The talent has improved but they make several mistakes. They are young and talented. As the mistakes are reduced (which they have been every year) I think the games will continue to be more and more winnable. We have had an opportunity to win every single game this year except the first one. How is that not a sign of improvement?
HoustonFrog
Dallas Frog
The funny thing is that SilverOak actually gave us the biggest reason to fire him. All of what he said was true...offense, etc has all improved. Yet after 12 games for 3 years we have been 5-7 and in the last 2 ended up 8-8. So if there is more talent, improvments in stats...what would cause the downfall......coaching.
Im not a Kubiak stay groupie, nor a fire Kubiak groupie, but somewhere undecided.
That being said, the argument for keeping is is really quite simple: Football is fun to watch in Houston.
We have an aggressive defense, we have a prolific offense, and we have some pretty good star power.
We've lost 7 games so far this season, but only 1 of them has been an ugly loss. We've had a chance to tie or win the game in the 4th quarter in 6 of those 7 losses (if memory serves me correctly).
I sit down at 1PM Est and know that Im going to see something exciting.
A few years ago, I sat down and was unsure if I was going to be embarassed. Im not embarassed anymore.
I watch football because I want to see close games and fun teams. Houston fits that category perfectly
That being said, the argument for keeping is is really quite simple: Football is fun to watch in Houston.
We have an aggressive defense, we have a prolific offense, and we have some pretty good star power.
We've lost 7 games so far this season, but only 1 of them has been an ugly loss. We've had a chance to tie or win the game in the 4th quarter in 6 of those 7 losses (if memory serves me correctly).
I sit down at 1PM Est and know that Im going to see something exciting.
A few years ago, I sat down and was unsure if I was going to be embarassed. Im not embarassed anymore.
I watch football because I want to see close games and fun teams. Houston fits that category perfectly
DexmanC
Hall of Fame
We're the new "Lovable Losers." Kubiak is Wayne Fonts. That guy
coached the Lions a long ass time, but he was such a nice guy.
barrett
All Pro
I would argue that the net gain is generally improved quality of football overall thus far. If the improvement continues, then I would expect our Win/Loss record to improve as well. It is possible that we have improved but more gradually and at a more steady pace than might satisfy your need for immediate gratification.
For those that are for keeping Kubiak because of his "constant improvement", I have a question.
I am not buying that the team is so improved this year, but I'll posit that for this post. What if the team doesn't get beat too bad in losses next year, shows improved play in some aspects, and everything else stays pretty much the same. The Texans are yet again improved.
If this "improved" team finishes 8-8 next year, do you give Kubiak a new contract or let him go?
I am not buying that the team is so improved this year, but I'll posit that for this post. What if the team doesn't get beat too bad in losses next year, shows improved play in some aspects, and everything else stays pretty much the same. The Texans are yet again improved.
If this "improved" team finishes 8-8 next year, do you give Kubiak a new contract or let him go?
Let him go.
Part of the reason that Im still slightly in favor of keeping Kubiak is because I think that another season of our new defensive scheme, coupled with a key safety addition, could see our defense make a transformation similar to that in Denver (I realize the irony is that they got a new coach).
I like the potential of our DC, and I like Kubiak offensively enough to trust he'll keep our offense good, and so I think one more season could give us a more accurate opinion on where this "team" is going
If we finished 8-8 or even 9-7 next year Id say can him
HoustonFrog
Dallas Frog
See and that is what I don't get. Many team out there want more. If their coach isn't winning in the playoffs, they wan tto fire him. People here seem content to be .500, fun and keep the nice guy. I guess that is fine but that isn't a great goal.
Cjeremy635
Overtraining
You have to look at the reason for those things though:
Defense- improved since the beginning of the season. True.
Offense- regressed since last season. This is caused by several issues and I think the blame falls mostly on the players, not coaching decisions. By "player causes" I mean everything from poor execution down to injuries. We have to take them all into consideration. Pitts is out, that was a big blow from a continuity stand point, along with the other injured o-lineman. Our run game has been crap this year....could be caused by the injured players being out and the fact that Slaton has just plain sucked for some reason. I can't for the life of me blame Kubiak for Slaton's rapid decline from last season (I can blame him for continuing to play Brown though, that guy sucks even worse) The Walter regression....hmm...I can't really call it a regression. He and Shaub never got off to a great start this season due to the early injury that Walter had. Besides, the beginning of the season, the offense was not the problem. We had Owen and AJ playing lights out. Owen goes down (see injury clause above) and then we are in a heap of trouble. For some reason he and Shaub aren't on the same page. I see that more on Shaub for not going through his reads and looking for him more than I see Kubiak telling Shaub not to target him.
I can not sit here and try to sugar coat the losses. They sting and we should have a better record than we do. The thread of hope I'm holding on to is the fact that we have been in most of the games we played this year. A play or 2 not being screwed up by the people on the field are the difference between us winning and losing those games and being in the hunt for the playoff right now. That's what keeps me optimistic about Kubiak and thinking that he had the guys in the correct position to succeed, they failed on their part of the deal. I mean I can't sit here and ***** at Kubiak for Dunta making a pass interferance call or getting burned by a rookie. He was put in the correct position on the field, but he failed at his job, by his own hands. Sure, you can say "well that falls on the coaching for not having them ready to make the plays come game time", but we know that isn't always the case. You can only teach someone so much, they have to have the instincts and the mental fortitude to make the plays that are required of them when the time actually comes.
Im not content to be 8-8, Im content to watch good football because its something we've never had before.
Teams don't fire their coach if they make the playoffs. Teams fire their coach if they consistently make the playoffs and lose early.
You have to have something consistently, then fail to show improvement, before getting canned.
Houston teams have never been consistently entertaining to watch. We've had an embarassing team for years. THis is the first year that I feel we're consistently putting out an "Any Given Sunday" type team that can beat anyone. If we had been doing this and ending up 8-8 for 2 or 3 years, then yeah, fire his ass. But this is the first year the defense and offense have both shown signs of clicking together at the same time.
Like I said, if we go 8-8 or 9-7 again, its a no brainer. But dont accuse me of being happy with mediocrity. If anything, you can say Im scared of regressing. As this is the first time we've consisntely been enjoyable, Im not lookin gforward to the possibility of slipping back into the "bad ol' days"
This is really the crux of the matter, isn't it?
"WE ARE SO MUCH BETTER!"...yet our record stays the same.
Standing still is not progress, folks.
Like Frank Zappa said: "Without deviation progress is not possible."
Oh, but it is that simple. You are the one making it complicated.
The simplicity is that winning more than you lose gives you a winning record.
If your winning record is good enough, you make the playoffs.
If you don't lose in the playoffs, you become champion.
See how simple the NFL is? Why complicate such an easy-to-understand system? The league does not look at offensive or defensive rankings, or turnover ratios, or individual records, or even statistical improvement, to determine who makes the cut of entering the playoffs.
If you're a NCAA football fan, I can understand the need to complicate things, but this is the NFL, which is a results-driven league, plain and simple.
barrett
All Pro
It would be hard to speculate on something like that until we get there. I'm weighing the improvement that I witnessed this year.
I'll say this, I have greater expectations for this team each year. We are a young team with an extremely young nucleus. I feel like that young nucleus is trying to find consistency. I feel like you would have a hard time arguing agianst the thought that #8 played more consistent, #59, #44, #76, #73, #91, #93, #54, #12, #89, #11, #81, #35, #26 all returned from last year and played more consistent football that contributed to our ability to perform at a high level.
14 of 22/24 starters played more consistently. That's 2/3rds of the team. With rookies #56 and #29 contributing at an extremely high level in starting positions to boot.
#20, #83, #80, #3 and #4 regressed mentally. (i am including #80 in this because I feel like he had more drops than last year and his run blocking trailed off as well, furthermore I have extremely high expectations for him)
All of these players made mistakes, the ones who improved as well as the ones who didn't. But overall they improved including the Coach.
I expect all of these players to continue to improve. None of them are past their prime and the added free agents (#94 & 31) improved as the season went on.
How is that not a reflection of the coaching staff?
I'll say this, I have greater expectations for this team each year. We are a young team with an extremely young nucleus. I feel like that young nucleus is trying to find consistency. I feel like you would have a hard time arguing agianst the thought that #8 played more consistent, #59, #44, #76, #73, #91, #93, #54, #12, #89, #11, #81, #35, #26 all returned from last year and played more consistent football that contributed to our ability to perform at a high level.
14 of 22/24 starters played more consistently. That's 2/3rds of the team. With rookies #56 and #29 contributing at an extremely high level in starting positions to boot.
#20, #83, #80, #3 and #4 regressed mentally. (i am including #80 in this because I feel like he had more drops than last year and his run blocking trailed off as well, furthermore I have extremely high expectations for him)
All of these players made mistakes, the ones who improved as well as the ones who didn't. But overall they improved including the Coach.
I expect all of these players to continue to improve. None of them are past their prime and the added free agents (#94 & 31) improved as the season went on.
How is that not a reflection of the coaching staff?
Runner said:
Come on - this is a simple question that shouldn't require waffling.
If constant improvement is all that matters, then of course you give him a new contract.
If you would not extend him, then the only real difference between you and those wanting to get rid him at this point is patience.
I guess it is a hard question to answer at that.
barrett
All Pro
How does a comment like that make any logical sense? There are immense factors that go into the outcome of any 1 play, not to mention any 1 game, or furthermore, any 1 season. If you don't understand that then perhaps you should be the one watching college football where all you have to have is more money for your programs merchandising and bigger and faster players and a safer schedule THAT YOU CHOOSE.
HoustonFrog
Dallas Frog
I get what you are saying but don't you think it is a pretty low standard to have...fun team, seeming to improve, but playing for nothing for 3 years straight. That is consistently failing whether it is the playoffs or now. As I said earlier on here, Dallas might fire Wade if he doesn't make it or go far in the playoffs and he has won games. I think at some point you stop with the incredibly patient years of baby steps and you expect the same type of improvement. I think people in general have forgotten what the goal is just because now is better than Capers.
barrett
All Pro
So long as I feel like we are heading in the right direction. I'm sure that's as "simple" a decision that Bob McNair will make in his career.
DexmanC
Hall of Fame
For the last three seasons, we've improved in some areas and regressed
in others. The rate of improvement has not been higher than the regression,
so we're looking better while finishing in the same place. Last year, we
were one of the least penalized teams in the league, but our overall talent
was less.
This year, we have more talent, yet this squad makes boneheaded penalties
right when they need to be locked in. Our quarterbacks turned the
ball over a ton last year. Schaub has started every game, AND cut his
interceptions and fumbles, BUT, the runningbacks have started turning it
over as much as the QB's last year.
Plus 1 minus 1 equals ZERO progress over the last THREE seasons.
We just look DAMN GOOD while losing. Set your standards higher, and so
will your owner. At least with the Rockets, you can SEE them trying. The
Astros just talk about it, and thus, can barely draw flies. The jury is
still out on the Texans, though. Bob better not screw this up.
barrett
All Pro
That is inaccurate.
So doesn't improving the talent give us a better chance to win? Doesn't reducing mental mistakes at the QB position give us a better chance to win? Looking good while loosing is an improvement over past seasons under Kubiak.
I think Bob McNair and I have similar standards when it comes to this franchise. Build a lasting winner the right way.
Simplicity is lost on you. YOU keep saying that they improved, but then blather on about intangibles and stats and things that really do not mean a damn thing at the end of the year.
The ONLY thing that really matter is wins and losses. Yet you want to complicate the issue with some sort of zeal based in quantum physics to explain the most simplest of ideas. We are still 5-7 at week 13, which is a trend that has repeated itself for three seasons now. Please, explain how this is IMPROVEMENT without bending over backward or making some other asinine illogical statement(s).
The fire-Kubiak crowd is SIMPLE and EASY to understand. Your logic requires suspension of reality and lots of hope and what ifs and nonsense. You have not made even ONE point that could be considered a sound reason for keeping such a mediocre coach.
And you want to talk about logic?! PUH-LEEZ!
Stemp
Brew Master
This article says almost exactly what I have been saying for weeks now. I almost wonder if the writer has been reading my post and borrowing from them. Anyway here is the link and here is the article.
Gary Kubiak is a nice guy. I'll stipulate to that. He works hard. I'll stipulate to that. Bob McNair likes him. I'll stipulate to that. But that Gary Kubiak deserves to keep his job because of that? That I won't stipulate to.
But according to the Houston Chronicle's Richard Justice, Kubiak should keep his job because he's a nice, hard-working guy liked by the owner who has a team that is only a couple of lucky plays away from being 11-1. And if that's not enough, Justice also reminds us stupid readers that, at this point in his head coaching career, Kubiak has the same record as Jeff Fisher, and that his record is only two games worse than the records of Jimmy Johnson and Bill Belichick after 60 games.
Of course, this being Richard Justice, he leaves a couple of things out of his coach-comparing analysis. At the 60-game mark, Jimmy Johnson was in his fourth year as head coach of the Cowboys. The Cowboys went 11-5 in Johnson's third season and made the playoffs. And at the 12-game mark in his fourth season, game number 60, the Cowboys were 10-2 and well on their way to winning the Super Bowl that season. And Belichick's Cleveland Brown team was 9-3 at game 60 of Belichick's coaching career, and would finish the season 11-5 and in the playoffs.
At this same point, Kubiak's Texans are 5-7, have lost four straight, and have essentially been eliminated from playoff contention.
Then there's Jeff Fisher who was working under some very strange conditions when he reached game 60 of his coaching career. Fisher took over the Houston Oilers in midseason, replacing a fired Jack Pardee. Fisher went 1-5 that season. The next year, 1995, the Oilers were 7-9, but the whole uproar over whether the Oilers were getting a new stadium or were departing for Nashville was already well underway. The team went 8-8 under difficult circumstances in 1996 and 8-8 in 1997 as the team practiced in Nashville and played games in Memphis.
The Tennessee Oilers were 3-3 when Fisher hit the 60-game mark in 1998. They would finish that season at 8-8, and the next year, they would go to the Super Bowl. So while it's rather nice of Justice to provide us idiots with those comparisons, they're not really apt comparisons.
After all, Kubiak's not dealing with the distraction of a franchise moving to another city. And he's yet to get his team to the playoffs, and they're nowhere near to sniffing a Super Bowl. And as Justice likes to remind us, the Texans have improved since Kubiak took over. Which they have.
But can anybody really argue that Kubiak himself has improved? Does anyone yet have any confidence in Kubiak's clock management? Does anyone yet have any confidence in his game preparation? Does anybody yet have any confidence in his ability to make in-game adjustments? Does anybody yet have any confidence that, when the game is on the line, Kubiak will make the right decisions?
The team has improved under Kubiak. The Texans have better, more talented personnel. They're no longer the abomination of a team that they were pre-Kubiak.
But Kubiak is still making the same mistakes he made in his first season. If he's not going to get any better at his job, then why should he be kept around to drag the team down?
There is more but you will have to click the link to read it.
Gary Kubiak is a nice guy. I'll stipulate to that. He works hard. I'll stipulate to that. Bob McNair likes him. I'll stipulate to that. But that Gary Kubiak deserves to keep his job because of that? That I won't stipulate to.
But according to the Houston Chronicle's Richard Justice, Kubiak should keep his job because he's a nice, hard-working guy liked by the owner who has a team that is only a couple of lucky plays away from being 11-1. And if that's not enough, Justice also reminds us stupid readers that, at this point in his head coaching career, Kubiak has the same record as Jeff Fisher, and that his record is only two games worse than the records of Jimmy Johnson and Bill Belichick after 60 games.
Of course, this being Richard Justice, he leaves a couple of things out of his coach-comparing analysis. At the 60-game mark, Jimmy Johnson was in his fourth year as head coach of the Cowboys. The Cowboys went 11-5 in Johnson's third season and made the playoffs. And at the 12-game mark in his fourth season, game number 60, the Cowboys were 10-2 and well on their way to winning the Super Bowl that season. And Belichick's Cleveland Brown team was 9-3 at game 60 of Belichick's coaching career, and would finish the season 11-5 and in the playoffs.
At this same point, Kubiak's Texans are 5-7, have lost four straight, and have essentially been eliminated from playoff contention.
Then there's Jeff Fisher who was working under some very strange conditions when he reached game 60 of his coaching career. Fisher took over the Houston Oilers in midseason, replacing a fired Jack Pardee. Fisher went 1-5 that season. The next year, 1995, the Oilers were 7-9, but the whole uproar over whether the Oilers were getting a new stadium or were departing for Nashville was already well underway. The team went 8-8 under difficult circumstances in 1996 and 8-8 in 1997 as the team practiced in Nashville and played games in Memphis.
The Tennessee Oilers were 3-3 when Fisher hit the 60-game mark in 1998. They would finish that season at 8-8, and the next year, they would go to the Super Bowl. So while it's rather nice of Justice to provide us idiots with those comparisons, they're not really apt comparisons.
After all, Kubiak's not dealing with the distraction of a franchise moving to another city. And he's yet to get his team to the playoffs, and they're nowhere near to sniffing a Super Bowl. And as Justice likes to remind us, the Texans have improved since Kubiak took over. Which they have.
But can anybody really argue that Kubiak himself has improved? Does anyone yet have any confidence in Kubiak's clock management? Does anyone yet have any confidence in his game preparation? Does anybody yet have any confidence in his ability to make in-game adjustments? Does anybody yet have any confidence that, when the game is on the line, Kubiak will make the right decisions?
The team has improved under Kubiak. The Texans have better, more talented personnel. They're no longer the abomination of a team that they were pre-Kubiak.
But Kubiak is still making the same mistakes he made in his first season. If he's not going to get any better at his job, then why should he be kept around to drag the team down?
There is more but you will have to click the link to read it.
DexmanC
Hall of Fame
Simplicity is lost on you. YOU keep saying that they improved, but then blather on about intangibles and stats and things that really do not mean a damn thing at the end of the year.
The ONLY thing that really matter is wins and losses. Yet you want to complicate the issue with some sort of zeal based in quantum physics to explain the most simplest of ideas. We are still 5-7 at week 13, which is a trend that has repeated itself for three seasons now. Please, explain how this is IMPROVEMENT without bending over backward or making some other asinine illogical statement(s).
The fire-Kubiak crowd is SIMPLE and EASY to understand. Your logic requires suspension of reality and lots of hope and what ifs and nonsense. You have not made even ONE point that could be considered a sound reason for keeping such a mediocre coach.
And you want to talk about logic?! PUH-LEEZ!
Co-Sign
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
I'm not a Kubiak supporter, I'm a Texan supporter. As a Texan fan, I want Kubiak to stay because I think that is the most likely scenario that will make this team a winner next year. If you want some empirical evidence, then read Texan Chick's blog at chron.com/sports.
Having a disappointing season doesn't mean that the head coach should be fired. That's an awful way to run a football team. Kubiak isn't responsible for all the losing that took place hear before 2006. Frankly, he's not responsible for much of it since, either. This team was void of talent when he took it over and the cap situation was abysmal. This is the first season the Texans have had a better than average roster.
Sean Peyton, with a superior roster and in a weaker division, led the Saints to a 7-9 season in '07 and an 8-8 season in '08... I bet they are happy Benson didn't fire him now. Disappointing seasons happen. It doesn't make the head coach a bad one anymore than one winning season makes a head coach a good one: Barry Switzer, Dave Wannstedt, Mike Martz, Lovie Smith, Wade Phillips, Jim Fassel, Herm Edwards... etc....
You have to have A winner before you can have a LASTING one. Where's this "winner" you speak of?
9-7 (or better) = Winner
8-8 = ???
7-9 (or worse) = Loser
Yet, according to you, we have this highly ranked offense with a much improved team. And the best that they can do is status quo.
Okey-dokey
whateva'Pull your head out and wrap it around that.
barrett said:
I quitting pressing you to answer the earlier question because you showed me you couldn't commit to an answer. I was fine with that because that was an answer in itself.
Then you start back up with this self-righteous "MY way is the RIGHT way" stuff. Therefore, I'll ask you to put your cloak of arrogance back on and tell me:
If Kubiak leads an improved Texans team to an 8-8 record next year, do you think he should get a new contract?
Yes or no. Just tell us the "right way".
barrett
All Pro
You have to have A winner before you can have a LASTING one. Where's this "winner" you speak of?
9-7 (or better) = Winner
8-8 = ???
7-9 (or worse) = Loser
Build:
v. built (blt), build·ing, builds
v.tr.
1. To form by combining materials or parts; construct.
2. To order, finance, or supervise the construction of
3. To develop or give form to according to a plan or process; create:
4. To increase or strengthen by adding gradually to:
5. To establish a basis for; found or ground:
I didn't say has built.
That's the whole debate. Is he on the right track or not? You say no. I say yes.
DON'T CARE HOW, I WANT IT NOW!!!
Riiiiiight. That's your best argument to keep Kubiak? A lame, childish reply to fans who no longer want to drink the Koolaide of mediocrity for a four year coach?
Your argument = FAIL
barrett
All Pro
Yet, according to you, we have this highly ranked offense with a much improved team. And the best that they can do is status quo.
Okey-dokey
Pull your head out and wrap it around that.
I must have missed myself talking about offense rankings when my head was up there. Or you're putting words in my mouth that is up my ass. Why are you in here with me?
At this stage, apparently, the best the team can do is .500. My assessment that despite the win/loss record the team is much improved. How do you not see that? Do you really only see the win/loss record? That is too simplistic of a view in my opinion. I think there is plenty of evidence to suggest that Kubiak is on the right track and therefore should remain the head coach.
Can you wrap your head around the fact that Kubiak isnt any better a coach than he was 4 years ago? He continues to make bad decisions in every aspect of coaching. Personell, in game adjustments, clock management and game preperation. And when the game matters the most do you really have confidence that he will make a good decision?
Kubiak has taken this team as far as his coaching abillity will allow him to. You yourself have pointed out that the team has gotten more talented and has improved in almost every aspect, yet the results have been the same year after year. Its simple deduction, everyone and everything about this team has gotten better except Kubiaks coaching ability. There are mountain sized piles of evidence to prove just that, and a lot of it is expressed in the pro Kubiaks posts, even yours.
barrett
All Pro
I think the "right way" would be to assess it then. I can't say for sure what circumstances will be involved in this "hypothetical improved 8-8 team" that you keep talking about. I've been arguing all along that there are more complex factors to assess other than just the record alone. That's why I can't answer you on that. I don't know how I would feel at that point.
But, regardless I'm glad you're starting to see it my way.
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
Simplicity is lost on you. YOU keep saying that they improved, but then blather on about intangibles and stats and things that really do not mean a damn thing at the end of the year.
The ONLY thing that really matter is wins and losses. Yet you want to complicate the issue with some sort of zeal based in quantum physics to explain the most simplest of ideas. We are still 5-7 at week 13, which is a trend that has repeated itself for three seasons now. Please, explain how this is IMPROVEMENT without bending over backward or making some other asinine illogical statement(s).
The fire-Kubiak crowd is SIMPLE and EASY to understand. Your logic requires suspension of reality and lots of hope and what ifs and nonsense. You have not made even ONE point that could be considered a sound reason for keeping such a mediocre coach.
And you want to talk about logic?! PUH-LEEZ!
You are making all kinds of logical leaps...
Of course Wins and Losses are not "all that matter"... at least, not in regards to assessing the development and growth of the football team moving forward. It certainly is the main factor regarding reaching the playoffs, or positioning for the draft. However, even in those scenarios, the league factors in other things such as strength of schedule.
I'll gladly admit that you may be right and replacing Kubiak may be the best course of action. I'm simply unsure and tend to think it isn't. Can you acknowledge that a team can be better and yet the record be worse? Surely you can admit that as a possibility.... Now, read Stephanie's blog at chron.com/sports about our rather dramatic improvement in DVOA. Also realize that if Kris Brown had the same season he had last year, we are probably a virtual lock for the playoffs right now (I'm not blaming the season on a kicker, but the reality is that his kicking won us some games last year and in '07 as much as it has lost them this year)... So, I tend to not blame the FG woes on the head coach or see poor kicking as an example of a poorly coached team.
I think it's foolish to want Kubiak fired without a plan in place. This isn't like 2005, where cleaning house was neccessary because the organization was a disaster. So, how about the "Fire Kubiak Club" include their plan for GM, head coach, OC, DC along with any discussion of firing Kubiak. I'd definitely be interested in replacing him with someone better. But, to be hell-bent on replacing him regardless... seems spiteful and ill-conceived.
barrett
All Pro
I'm really getting tired of saying this. That improvement that you are arguing as to why he should go is the same reason I'm using in my argument that he should stay.
Please explain by what measure you are determining "improvement", Einstein. You keep babbling on how individual players have improved, yet you want to take exception as to how I packaged your thoughts? Seriously?
Please, elaborate and shed light in your thought process to determine your very own perception of improvement if it is not based on stats, wins/losses, or rankings.
I can't wait to be educated about a system that seems to elude so many other fans.
What other qualifications do HEAD COACHES get judged by in the NFL, if not final results?
I do not disagree that Kubiak is "on the right track". I just don't think he's the man to get us to the destination that this track should lead us to. Can you even comprehend the other side that believes Kubiak has reached the end of his abilities as a head coach for this team at this point in time? I'm not asking for agreement, just a confirmation that you have the ability in you to simply comprehend another perspective than your own.
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
Should Soprano be fired from Miami this year? Miami has already lost more games than they did last year!!
Perhaps Harbaugh should be fired from Baltimore?
or
Belichek from NE?
or
Coughlin from NY?
or
Tomlin from Pittsburgh?
or
Jon Fox
or
Mike Smith
If your subsequent argument is that those guys have won before, then you are acknowledging that other things do matter. Who has done a worse coaching job this season?
Kubiak
Tomlin
Harbaugh
Coughlin
Belichek
Perhaps Harbaugh should be fired from Baltimore?
or
Belichek from NE?
or
Coughlin from NY?
or
Tomlin from Pittsburgh?
or
Jon Fox
or
Mike Smith
If your subsequent argument is that those guys have won before, then you are acknowledging that other things do matter. Who has done a worse coaching job this season?
Kubiak
Tomlin
Harbaugh
Coughlin
Belichek
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
Try this measurement (DVOA)... from Texan Chick's blog today-
"Bill Barnwell: Our projection for the Texans in 2009 was 6.9 wins. Seeing as that they're 5-7 at the moment, they're going to end up pretty close to that number.
The reason why our projection was so low despite their record a year ago had to do with a combination of things; their DVOA (our stat which compares each play in a season to the league average after adjusting for down, distance, situation, and the quality of the opposition) wasn't all that great a year ago, at -6.8%, which was 23rd in the league. They had a tough schedule ahead of them, since we were projecting Indy to be very good (albeit not undefeated) and Jacksonville to be a 10-win playoff team. We also look at things like age of starters and continuity of lineups.
This year, their DVOA is actually far better. At 10.2%, they're 14th in the league, just ahead of the 9-3 Bengals. The reason why has to do with how they've played, independent of their win-loss record -- they've dominated the Colts at times before losing, handily beat those same Bengals, and lost six games by a touchdown or less. With a little luck -- a couple of bounces here or there, a fumble recovery, a swatted ball that hit the ground instead of falling into a defender's arms -- they could very easily be 7-5 or 8-6. "
Ok then put that aside and aknowlege the rest of my post. If Kubiak is still making the same mistakes he made in his first season. If he's not going to get any better at his job, then why should he be kept around to drag the team down?
DexmanC
Hall of Fame
It's only an indictment of Kubiak. He's remained the same, while the
talent level has increased. There is no flexibility IN-GAME to what
adjustments a defense has made to him. The "close losses" only show
that we've matched our opponent in talent, but it's coaching that
gets teams to the elite level.
Where has Kubiak shown HIS growth, as a COACH? It's unrealistic to
expect championships from out-talenting our coaching deficiency. This
is the NFL, not the Big 12.