Kubes on the hotseat????

[dalemurphy]

Agreed

I think that Mr. McNair/FO have tied Kubes hands on how much money is in the budget for asst. coaches and a good portion of that money was spent on A.Gibbs.

I wasn't trying to suggest that. I don't think Kubiak's decision on the Bush hire is anything beyond the fact that he really believes in the guy and thinks he'll do a great job.

Assembling a coaching staff goes way beyond simply grabbing the biggest names. The pieces have to fit together. I don't have any problem with Kubiak deciding to go with Bush. I don't think any fans are close enough to the organization to know if Kubiak's hiring methodology is flawed. We simply don't know all that went on in the process. Having said that, you can't spend the majority of your FA resources and draft resources on a defense that continues to fail. If Bush can't turn these guys around, then Kubiak will certainly have to answer for back to back DC failures, probably with his job.

 

[GP]

We have had plenty of talent since Day One even under Capers. Carr sank Capers almost singlehandedly and our defense has sucked ever since. Kubiak has turned the offense around ever since Carr left, but his team's defenses have been woefully poor and he has been pitifully slow to react and then we he finally fires the failure Richard Smith, he hires from within and gives the job to someone who is far less qualified than many of the possible replacements out there in league circles.

Why Kubiak hires Denver defensive coaching, I will never know...Marinelli was out there, Gregg Williams, Rivera, to name just a few. What has Bush done during his time with the defense to merit him keeping his job much less being promoted to Defensive Coordinator? I just don't see it...and it seemed like either a cheap move by the front office/ownership or just a failure of a job by Kubiak to recruit truly the best guy for the job. Was he worried about hiring someone out of the loop that would challenge his 'vast' defensive acumen or his defensive scheme preferences?

That being said, this thread has probably run its course. We all pretty much agree that Kubiak has to do a good job in order to keep his job and not be on the 'hot seat'. Some of us just have different ideas on the definition of 'good job' and 'hot seat' and its causes division amongst basically likeminded fans on this issue.

8-8 probably brings a little heat but probably not enough to be look at as serious. Worse case would be no contract extension and enter 2010 as lame duck. 7-9 or worse, all bets are off due to his contract situation.

I don't think that is unreasonable or doom and gloom. It's just NFL reality.

We have not had plenty of talent since day one, SH.

It was easily one of the worst Expansion Draft classes EVER. Our QB got exposed pretty quickly, which makes that opening win against the Cowboys so laughable: How we won that game is still a mystery to me. And, throw in the running back crop that we went through before landing Domanick Davis and our offense was right up there with Southwest Central Oklahoma Junior College. I mean, those Capers teams looked decent on the practice field and all, but the game day product was a far cry from that of a real NFL team.

Also, outside of landing some no-miss first rounders in Dunta and AJ, there's nothing special about the drafting job that Capers and Casserly did. There was the epic reach on Babin, the Bennie Joppru experiment, the Buchanon acquisition, the list goes on.

Even if Kubiak entered 2010 without a deal, it doesn't make him a lame duck coach. That term describes someone that nobody on the team will follow. Kubiak could finish 2010 on a huge mountain top, that sort of 11-5 or playoff benchmark that's been assessed as the measuring stick around here, and get a long-term deal from it. So even in the worst-case scenario, it's not like 2010 would be a 4-12 year where players are texting on the sideline and just goofing around.

 

[GP]

Agreed

I think that Mr. McNair/FO have tied Kubes hands on how much money is in the budget for asst. coaches and a good portion of that money was spent on A.Gibbs.

I've been an advocate of that view for a long time. I probably took it to an extreme, though. It's my belief that Richard Smith was a checkbook hire for McNair, and with Kubiak steadily improving this team each season...McNair is opening up the wallet and spending a little more coin than he had been willing to do after 2-14.

I think McNair wanted to see what Kubiak could do without blowing out the Texans' bank. And I think Gibbs is a good example of McNair seeing that Kubiak can coach, and therefore he gave him Gibbs when Kubiak asked for him.

Just my opinion, though. I don't think McNair had a very trusting heart of anything after 2-14. He placed so much confidence in Casserly, and he saw where it got him.

 

[BigBull17]

We have not had plenty of talent since day one, SH.

It was easily one of the worst Expansion Draft classes EVER. Our QB got exposed pretty quickly, which makes that opening win against the Cowboys so laughable: How we won that game is still a mystery to me. And, throw in the running back crop that we went through before landing Domanick Davis and our offense was right up there with Southwest Central Oklahoma Junior College. I mean, those Capers teams looked decent on the practice field and all, but the game day product was a far cry from that of a real NFL team.

Also, outside of landing some no-miss first rounders in Dunta and AJ, there's nothing special about the drafting job that Capers and Casserly did. There was the epic reach on Babin, the Bennie Joppru experiment, the Buchanon acquisition, the list goes on.

Even if Kubiak entered 2010 without a deal, it doesn't make him a lame duck coach. That term describes someone that nobody on the team will follow. Kubiak could finish 2010 on a huge mountain top, that sort of 11-5 or playoff benchmark that's been assessed as the measuring stick around here, and get a long-term deal from it. So even in the worst-case scenario, it's not like 2010 would be a 4-12 year where players are texting on the sideline and just goofing around.

And to talk about hiring poor coaches, Capers had Vic Fanggio, Joe Pendry, ect... They ran Palmer off, even though he was alot better of an offensive coordinator. We had little to no talent, cutting vets to make room for untalented youth. We drafted horribly, shown by the fact that we have cut very little of our draft picks since Kubiak took over. Our depth wouldn't have made it at USC, let alone in the NFL. The difference in talent from then to know is night and day. We were a laughing stock, now we're on the cusp of being a play-off team.

 

[jshabang]

I believe this is the request...





Seems reasonable to me.

Lock it up!

I am the OP.........and I approve this message.....

seriously...I cant believe this thing is still going like the energizer bunny.....wow

 

[El Tejano]

So...Kubes...hot seat or no hot seat?

 

[Lucky]

I think that Mr. McNair/FO have tied Kubes hands on how much money is in the budget for asst. coaches and a good portion of that money was spent on A.Gibbs.

I've been an advocate of that view for a long time. I probably took it to an extreme, though. It's my belief that Richard Smith was a checkbook hire for McNair...

Wow! Who saw this coming? Bob McNair is responsible for the Richard Smith hiring. That has to be the ultimate Houston Texans head coach apologist take. Does nothing stick to this man? Does he walk on water, too?

Of course, the fact that there is zero.zero evidence to suggest McNair vetoed any assistant head coach hiring based on money or any other criteria isn't relevant. We know that the Houston Texans head coach can do no wrong. So we'll just make stuff up that lifts the blame for an atrocious hire and places it on the owner. Without any supporting proof. Well done.

 

[Marcus]

Wow! Who saw this coming? Bob McNair is responsible for the Richard Smith hiring. That has to be the ultimate Houston Texans head coach apologist take. Does nothing stick to this man? Does he walk on water, too?

Of course, the fact that there is zero.zero evidence to suggest McNair vetoed any assistant head coach hiring based on money or any other criteria isn't relevant. We know that the Houston Texans head coach can do no wrong. So we'll just make stuff up that lifts the blame for an atrocious hire and places it on the owner. Without any supporting proof. Well done.

Batten down the hatches folks. Someone's about to go on one of his infamous 'Teflon man" rants.

 

[steelbtexan]

Wow! Who saw this coming? Bob McNair is responsible for the Richard Smith hiring. That has to be the ultimate Houston Texans head coach apologist take. Does nothing stick to this man? Does he walk on water, too?

Of course, the fact that there is zero.zero evidence to suggest McNair vetoed any assistant head coach hiring based on money or any other criteria isn't relevant. We know that the Houston Texans head coach can do no wrong. So we'll just make stuff up that lifts the blame for an atrocious hire and places it on the owner. Without any supporting proof. Well done.

I'm not a Kubes apologist.

I believe he has made many mistakes. The biggest one being the resigning of HWNSNBM.

I also belive Mr. McNair has him on a budget, just like any good business owner would have a manager on a budget.

 

[steelbtexan]

Batten down the hatches folks. Someone's about to go on one of his infamous 'teflon man" rants.

lol

 

[Runner]

Wow! Who saw this coming? Bob McNair is responsible for the Richard Smith hiring. That has to be the ultimate Houston Texans head coach apologist take. Does nothing stick to this man? Does he walk on water, too?

Of course, the fact that there is zero.zero evidence to suggest McNair vetoed any assistant head coach hiring based on money or any other criteria isn't relevant. We know that the Houston Texans head coach can do no wrong. So we'll just make stuff up that lifts the blame for an atrocious hire and places it on the owner. Without any supporting proof. Well done.

Of course there is no evidence. That is the difference between belief and knowledge. The belief system just has to be self-consistent. The central belief is that Kubes has made no major mistakes. The obvious conclusion then is that McNair, the weather, or the NFL conspiracy to keep the Texans down made him have a bad defensive coordinator.

The central belief could be that Kubes is infallible, but the believers want to be able to show they are being fair by saying there was one time he should have called a time out, he had the wrong personnel in, etc. Of course when any such minor mistake is admitted, an example of Don Shula missing a time out opportunity in 1970 is used to show that Kubes has a perfect season ahead. A perfect logical chain, as long as the belief system is internalized.

 

[Lucky]

I'm not a Kubes apologist.

I believe he has made many mistakes. The biggest one being the resigning of HWNSNBM.

It is just as absurd to assign blame for the re-signing of Carr on the Texans head coach as it is to hold McNair responsible for the selection of Richard Smith as defensive coordinator. The re-signing of David Carr was all McNair. Sure, the Texans head coach said he could work with Carr. He was wrong. No one could have or has since. The Texans head coach gave it his very best shot, and you can make a case that Carr played his best football under his tutelage.

On the positive (or sunny) side, I give you an A+ for consistency.

Note: Thanks Marcus, for another wonderful contribution to the conversation.

 

[GP]

Wow! Who saw this coming? Bob McNair is responsible for the Richard Smith hiring. That has to be the ultimate Houston Texans head coach apologist take. Does nothing stick to this man? Does he walk on water, too?

Of course, the fact that there is zero.zero evidence to suggest McNair vetoed any assistant head coach hiring based on money or any other criteria isn't relevant. We know that the Houston Texans head coach can do no wrong. So we'll just make stuff up that lifts the blame for an atrocious hire and places it on the owner. Without any supporting proof. Well done.

I have stated over and over that it's my opinion, so you can stop the melodramatic "NO PROOF! NO PROOF!" yelling and screaming.

If McNair was dumb (or perhaps "not educated enough") to hire Casserly and Capers, and then to demand that Carr be given one more year at $8 million dollars while saddling his new head coach (Kubiak) with such a move...then I would easily say that I hold the belief that McNair also forced the Richard Smith hire onto Kubiak.

Wouldn't surprise me if one day we find out that Kubiak even had Sherman forced on him by McNair. Once Rick Smith came in (a friend of Kubiak's) and once McNair saw the improvement, I think Smithiak leveraged it toward getting the people that they had really wanted: Gibbs, Bush, etc.

BTW, why do you suddenly come back to this thread and dredge it all up again when it was just about to die? Let it go, for crying out loud. It's beginning to stink like a 5-day dead possum on this topic. Sheesh.

 

[ObsiWan]

If I recollect, we are the only expansion team that has not reached the playoffs by the 4th year. This is our 8th year........our 4th year into this regime...........it's time.

sorry CnnnD, I'm catchin' up


I direct you to the history of the Dallas Cowboys and the Minnesota Vikings, the expansion teams of the 60s. Neither earned a playoff berth in their first 4 yrs of existence. The Cowboys, as everyone here knows, didn't even get to .500 until their 6th yr in the league; they made the playoffs for the first time the next year (1966). Wonder how the Cowboys would have turned out had they fired Tom Landry after those first four losing years...??

The Vikings' first year in the NFL was 1961. Their first playoff appearance wasn't until '68. However, in the interest of full disclosure, they did post one winning season before that to earn 2nd place in their division. That was pre-Super Bowl so wild cards were non-existent.


I can't believe this thread has lasted this long.

Of course Kubiak's on the hot seat. All coaches are.
Like Bum said, "there's two kinds of coaches, them's that's been fired and them's that's gonna be." ...or something like that

 

[JCTexan]

I have stated over and over that it's my opinion, so you can stop the melodramatic "NO PROOF! NO PROOF!" yelling and screaming.

If McNair was dumb (or perhaps "not educated enough") to hire Casserly and Capers, and then to demand that Carr be given one more year at $8 million dollars while saddling his new head coach (Kubiak) with such a move...then I would easily say that I hold the belief that McNair also forced the Richard Smith hire onto Kubiak.

Wouldn't surprise me if one day we find out that Kubiak even had Sherman forced on him by McNair. Once Rick Smith came in (a friend of Kubiak's) and once McNair saw the improvement, I think Smithiak leveraged it toward getting the people that they had really wanted: Gibbs, Bush, etc.

BTW, why do you suddenly come back to this thread and dredge it all up again when it was just about to die? Let it go, for crying out loud. It's beginning to stink like a 5-day dead possum on this topic. Sheesh.

Didn't Kubiak want Bush when he first became the coach, but Arizona wouldn't let him come here? I honestly thought Richard Smith was the last option when he was hired.

 

[ObsiWan]

It is just as absurd to assign blame for the re-signing of Carr on the Texans head coach as it is to hold McNair responsible for the selection of Richard Smith as defensive coordinator. The re-signing of David Carr was all McNair. Sure, the Texans head coach said he could work with Carr. He was wrong. No one could have or has since. The Texans head coach gave it his very best shot, and you can make a case that Carr played his best football under his tutelage.

On the positive (or sunny) side, I give you an A+ for consistency.

Note: Thanks Marcus, for another wonderful contribution to the conversation.

Careful.

You keep making statements like that, we'll have to make you an honorary Sunshine Club member.

 

[Fox]

Kubiak's Denver connection with Richard Smith and A&M connection with Sherman makes it seem unlikely to me that McNair pushed them on him considering Kubiak's hiring history. He seems to enjoy working with people he, or at least people in his inner circle, has history with. I don't think Bush is necessarily the primary one he wanted all along either, I seem to remember hearing about Richard and Frank at the same time when it surfaced that Kubiak wanted them both as co-Defensive coordinators at the outset of his tenure.

It's mostly conjecture, I just don't interpret any of this as Kubiak being financially handcuffed, all things considered. He was definitely given a tough situation when he took on the job. Worst team in the NFL with a very expensive failure as the face of the franchise, but I don't think McNair has made his climb any steeper since he took over.

 

[GP]

McNair strikes me as a guy who started off with a hand-picked GM and HC that he thought would be just super duper awesome, and 2-14 came along and showed him how wrong he was.

Kubiak being saddled with Carr for one more year was a last-gasp effort by McNair to show that he didn't get everything wrong. And again, that big idea fell flat.

Regardless of who was in charge of the Richard Smith experiment, the fact remains that he's gone and the core of the offense coaches are still standing. There had to be a reason why Richard Smith was brought along in the first place, and I definitely do not think it was because of the Denver connection or because he was the best man for the job. We fans don't know all that goes on, but you could smell a rat when Carr was extended...and we ought to sense that same stink when Richard Smith was hired AND retained for so long.

If that's Kubiak trying to muscle Richard Smith and will him to succeed, I'd be surprised. He didn't flinch and beg Sherman to stay when Sherman was interviewing for the A&M job, and the same goes for our previous offensive coordinator whom Kubiak didn't seem too concerned about when he went after the Air Force HC job (IIRC). Kubiak gave Carr one year. He didn't try to retain Sherman or the OC. But he holds onto Richard Smith? I'm not buying.

I think Kubiak accepted the job with a few restrictions involved, which was McNair's way (in my own freaking opinion) of trying to stay involved in the aspects of running the show.

There was probably a large dose of skepticism on McNair's behalf after 2-14, and you couldn't blame an owner from imposing some limitations on an HC who wants to bring in his own guys right away. I could see McNair saying "Hold on there, cowboy. I've been down THAT road before. Let's just see what you can do on offense, and here's some guys you'll be bringing in for the beginning of your tenure. Show me what you have, and then we'll talk about expanding your freedom."

3 seasons later, I think it's apparent that Kubiak has turned the offense into something that doesn't resemble anything that Capers could have thrown out on the field. Now it's the defense's turn to get the make-over.

 

[Lucky]

BTW, why do you suddenly come back to this thread and dredge it all up again when it was just about to die? Let it go, for crying out loud. It's beginning to stink like a 5-day dead possum on this topic. Sheesh.

Then you proceed to post twice more? The GP doth protest too much, methinks.

I have stated over and over that it's my opinion, so you can stop the melodramatic "NO PROOF! NO PROOF!" yelling and screaming.

If you post in an internet forum, you run the risk of encountering an opposing view. It happens. I just wanted to point out that your McNair-Richard Smith conspiracy theory was a complete Fig Newton of your Imaginabisco. That's all.

Careful.

You keep making statements like that, we'll have to make you an honorary Sunshine Club member.

Hey, I'm a full-fledged member of the 19-10 Truth Movement. The truth. The whole truth. And nothing but the truth.

So help me Toro.

 

[Runner]

McNair strikes me as a guy who started off with a hand-picked GM and HC that he thought would be just super duper awesome, and 2-14 came along and showed him how wrong he was.

Don't forget we had some years of constant improvement before that though!

 

[Runner]

BTW, why do you suddenly come back to this thread and dredge it all up again when it was just about to die? Let it go, for crying out loud. It's beginning to stink like a 5-day dead possum on this topic. Sheesh.

I was going to post about that statement, but it was so outlandish that I didn't bother. I should have, just to let you reiterate that it is your opinion and based on nothing that has ever happened with the Texans. It was basically made up to support a position of "Kubiak doesn't make big mistakes".

 

[steelbtexan]

I'm consistent in my opinion that Mr. McNair gets way too much leeway annd Kubes gets his fair share of blame.

 

[GP]

I was going to post about that statement, but it was so outlandish that I didn't bother. I should have, just to let you reiterate that it is your opinion and based on nothing that has ever happened with the Texans. It was basically made up to support a position of "Kubiak doesn't make big mistakes".

Oh, you don't know for sure that my theory isn't true. There's a lot that we will never know for sure. Just because a coordinator or a position coach is hired, doesn't mean it was the head coach's choice--That's a pretty gullible stance to take; the stance that every hire is the HC's choice/decision.

Kubiak makes mistakes, but the position that's being taken is that he's on the verge of being fired if he doesn't make the playoffs this year. There's no PROOF that that's the case, either.

 

[Runner]

Oh, you don't know for sure that my theory isn't true. There's a lot that we will never know for sure. Just because a coordinator or a position coach is hired, doesn't mean it was the head coach's choice--That's a pretty gullible stance to take; the stance that every hire is the HC's choice/decision.

So what? I could present the theory that Gary Kubiak is a fan of Richard Hoagland, and hyperdimensional physics proves that the Texans should have a defensive coordinator with a four letter last name. Just because "you don't know for sure that my theory isn't true" doesn't make it any more likely.

As far as I'm concerned, giving credence to theories based on nothing more than conjecture to prove a point is asking for more gullibility than believing Kubiak picked his staff. Kubiak wielded a lot of power when he signed up here. That is based on observations of what went on at the time, not a belief that it would be impossible for Kubiak to pick a bad coach.

 

[GP]

So what? I could present the theory that Gary Kubiak is a fan of Richard Hoagland, and hyperdimensional physics proves that the Texans should have a defensive coordinator with a four letter last name. Just because "you don't know for sure that my theory isn't true" doesn't make it any more likely.

As far as I'm concerned, giving credence to theories based on nothing more than conjecture to prove a point is asking for more gullibility than believing Kubiak picked his staff. Kubiak wielded a lot of power when he signed up here. That is based on observations of what went on at the time, not a belief that it would be impossible for Kubiak to pick a bad coach.

Alex Gibbs was hired well after the 1st season. I view that as a Kubiak hire vs. the Sherman hire which smacked of McNair sending a signal that a veteran head coach, with a solid track record, was watching very closely...which then saw the dueling (or perhaps "hybrid") Green Bay run game and Denver run game switching out every other play on the field, precipitating and necessitating the Gibbs hire which was more in line with what Kubiak had probably envisioned since that's what he knows the most.

He even brought in Shanahan Jr. as a wide receivers coach, which I think was a clever strategic move by Kubiak. Get the kid on staff, wait out the forced hirings, and then promote the kid to the OC spot.

Little by little, you can see the changes being made. Why? Why would these little things fall like dominoes? Why wouldn't Shanahan Jr. be brought in immediately as OC once Kubiak got the HC gig in Houston? What the hell is Mike Sherman even doing in Houston in the first place, if not to be that veteran Big Brother making sure that McNair has an eye and an ear on what Kubiak is doing all the time? Then, like a magician's puff of smoke, Sherman is gone. Why? Because he was only there for the simplest of reasons: A Dan Reeves'esque consultant role. Once things started to take shape, he was out of there and onto a HC job. There was no long-term reason for Sherman to be in Houston.

You think that McNair is just going to hand the keys to the team after 2-14? McNair is a shrewd businessman whose franchise remains one of the most profitable franchises in sports today. He operates in black ink, never in red. I don't see Bob McNair, as you have claimed, just rushing Kubiak onto the front lines and saying "Anything you want, it would be my pleasure!"

Gary Kubiak had zero HC experience. Hell, it wouldn't surprise me if McNair wanted him more for his skills with helping QBs mature and produce on the field (hello, David Carr reclamation project!) than for the vast HC experience that Kubiak didn't possess.

Was Kubiak the big choice for McNair? Yes. Was he given everything he wanted from the beginning? I highly doubt it. But now, it looks like McNair has been won over. Big time. We've got David Gibbs on staff, Bush was promoted (an obvious Kubiak choice, by far), and now we're talking playoffs with a r-e-a-l chance of it for a change.

Again: Until a tell-all book is written (which it won't be), nobody can say for sure what went down. I can say this: The Texans organization is a tight-lipped and secretive organization as it relates to personnel moves, so it should come as no surprise that we'd never know that Gary did, or didn't, have full reign in that first wave of staff hirings.

 

[GP]

It was then that I realized what I was dealing with: A textbook cryptopath.

His use of obscure and nuanced cultural references made it maddening for the layman to understand. He was rife with the sort of savage, yet inventive, dialogue tactics that would prove my foil for years to come.

No matter. This is the way it must be; the way it always should be: The prey laying in wait for its hunter. But oh, the desires to rush in before the hunter had reached his mark! No, only fools rush in. And this was no time to be foolish, for the folly of impatience could spell certain and irreversible doom.

Come forward, hunter. Step once more, and then again, and thrice more. OK, I am tired and going to bed now. I hope it's not cloudy and raining when I wake up...

 

[ObsiWan]

Hey, I'm a full-fledged member of the 19-10 Truth Movement. The truth. The whole truth. And nothing but the truth.

So help me Toro.

Membership in one org does not automatically exclude one from the other; despite seeming appearances to the contrary.
welcome aboard - wear your Sunshine badge proudly!

 

[ObsiWan]

Gary Kubiak had zero HC experience. Hell, it wouldn't surprise me if McNair wanted him more for his skills with helping QBs mature and produce on the field (hello, David Carr reclamation project!) than for the vast HC experience that Kubiak didn't possess.

Was Kubiak the big choice for McNair? Yes. Was he given everything he wanted from the beginning? I highly doubt it. But now, it looks like McNair has been won over. Big time. We've got David Gibbs on staff, Bush was promoted (an obvious Kubiak choice, by far), and now we're talking playoffs with a r-e-a-l chance of it for a change.

From Kubiak's own lips at a recent luncheon...

"You're going to be told no many, many times," Kubiak said. "You're going to be told many times that you're not good enough or that's not good enough.

"My first interview, I had a man who's passed now (former Cleveland owner Al Lerner) tell me that he had shoes older than me; I wasn't ready. About seven years ago, I interviewed with a man I respect more than anybody in the business, and at the end of the interview, I stood up, shook his hand and he said, 'You're not ready to be a head coach yet.’ I sit here today working for that man; the same guy (McNair).

Seven years ago, sounds like Kubiak was turned down in favor of Capers. Just because he (McNair)reconsidered in '06, doesn't mean McNair gave Kubiak total, unfettered, control. In fact, looking back at Sherman's hiring, I kinda doubt that he did. Maybe Kubiak was initially brought in to save HWWNBN's Texans career. And only after team improvement was demonstrated did McNair take the training wheels off and let him (Kubiak) bring in the guys he really wanted.

like the Toosie Pop commercials used to say: the world may never know

 

[Runner]

I would like to point out that it is inconsistent to give Kubiak full credit for all things good and full exoneration for all things bad. However, since those statements fit in nicely with the belief system, I'm sure I'll be told that they aren't inconsistencies as much as they are proof of Kubiak's near infallibility.

 

[Polo]

I would like to point out that it is inconsistent to give Kubiak full credit for all things good and full exoneration for all things bad. However, since those statements fit in nicely with the belief system, I'm sure I'll be told that they aren't inconsistencies as much as they are proof of Kubiak's near infallibility.

Agreed.

Kubes has his downfalls just like every other coach throughout the history of mankind.

 

[GP]

Seven years ago, sounds like Kubiak was turned down in favor of Capers. Just because he (McNair)reconsidered in '06, doesn't mean McNair gave Kubiak total, unfettered, control. In fact, looking back at Sherman's hiring, I kinda doubt that he did. Maybe Kubiak was initially brought in to save HWWNBN's Texans career. And only after team improvement was demonstrated did McNair take the training wheels off and let him (Kubiak) bring in the guys he really wanted.

like the Toosie Pop commercials used to say: the world may never know

We'll never know because the Texans won't divulge any of that. Even Richard Justice can't find anything other than the same small piece of information he had gathered and recycled over and over.

David Carr's brother, who posted on here as Hulk75, had PM'd me the week of the Williams-Bush-Young draft, and said that David had been told we were going to sign Reggie Bush. Two days later, we had an agreement with Mario Williams. I PM'd him back and asked what happened. He said his brother (David) was clueless as to what happened...he had essentially been misled by the Texans organization.

And that's indicative of the Kubiak regime: You won't know much about what's going on unless it's already happened. One of the first acts by the Kubiak regime was lying to its golden boy QB about who we would select with the first pick. LOL.

That's why I think my theory is plausible. Even Kubiak himself is not going to leak the information that he had coaches forced on him. I say "If he had a player forced on him (Carr), then it's not too bizarre to think he had a coach or two forced upon him, as well."

It's amazing that we had a poster on here, who waited on Frank Bush, and was able to get some valuable intel out of Bush (about how he and Kubiak had handcuffed Richard Smith toward the end of the season). You can see how easy it is to slip and tell someone as innocent as a waiter, and then it spreads on a message board. You can't contain what's already loose and has replicated itself.

 

[TexansSeminole]

Man GP, your posts are always so long.

 

[GP]

Man GP, your posts are always so long.

No extra charge, either. Your message board dollar goes farther when you read my posts. No teasers. No installments. There are things in my posts that haven't even been mined yet. j/k

I'm like Golden Corral, while others are like gourmet eateries. Wouldn't you desire to spend $7 and eat all you want from food that's been under a lamp all day, and cooked in massive quantities? Or a 2 oz. filet mignon with some swirly sauce and vegetable artwork for $30?

I rest my case.

 

[thunderkyss]

Don't forget we had some years of constant improvement before that though!

Really good point.... which brings up the question, are we really any better than the play-off bound team that went 2-14.

I think we are.

We've got 2 bonafied WRs in Johnson & KDub. Excellent WR depth, with Anderson, Davis, and Jones...... okay, maybe not excellent.

We've got the best receiving TE in the AFC.

We've got a QB who hasn't had the fear of God on a football field instilled in him just yet.

Though I am, and always will be a DD 37 fan, I think SS is a definite upgrade.

Our OL looks good, both running and passing. Sure there is some work to be done there, but no reason for wholesale changes as had been our custom.

We've got a fullback that has been mistaken for a Mack truck a few times.

defensively....... honestly, I think we've taken a step backwards. Hopefully our offense will control the TOP, and we'll get by.

Taking that into account, and the fact that our head coach has a few things to learn about game planning, game management, and mid game adjustments....... we may not finish 8-8 or better.

But I'd still rather assess what the problems are at the end of the season, and see if we can address them instead of just throwing it all out the window, and starting all over again.

 

[HOU-TEX]

Man, this thread's like the energizer bunny. It keeps going, and going.......

 

[Texecutioner]

We've got the best receiving TE in the AFC.

Was Antonio Gates traded to the NFC over the weekend or something? Daniels is a great receiving TE, but he isn't as good as Gates in the passing game.

 

[Double Barrel]

What the hell is Mike Sherman even doing in Houston in the first place, if not to be that veteran Big Brother making sure that McNair has an eye and an ear on what Kubiak is doing all the time? Then, like a magician's puff of smoke, Sherman is gone. Why? Because he was only there for the simplest of reasons: A Dan Reeves'esque consultant role. Once things started to take shape, he was out of there and onto a HC job. There was no long-term reason for Sherman to be in Houston.

Or maybe, just maybe, he was hired for his coaching acumen. Sherman had a working relationship with Kubiak at A&M. Perhaps, and this is just a long shot here, Kubiak actually hired Sherman to coach an offensive line and to add insight to being a head coach of an NFL team.

Kinda' crazy to think that this is what could have transpired, because, well...that's what transpired.

No, must be something conspiratorial about it, so carry on with your unanchored opinions and speculation. Off-season can be fun that way.

In the meantime, I'll stick with the historical record and common sense.

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

Or maybe, just maybe, he was hired for his coaching acumen. Sherman had a working relationship with Kubiak at A&M. Perhaps, and this is just a long shot here, Kubiak actually hired Sherman to coach an offensive line and to add insight to being a head coach of an NFL team.

Kinda' crazy to think that this is what could have transpired, because, well...that's what transpired.

No, must be something conspiratorial about it, so carry on with your unanchored opinions and speculation. Off-season can be fun that way.

In the meantime, I'll stick with the historical record and common sense.

Sherman seemed to have had a significant say in the direction of the Offense, at least the running game. We had a "hybrid" running game. The problem was that they incompatibly ran in opposite directions.

 

[GP]

Or maybe, just maybe, he was hired for his coaching acumen. Sherman had a working relationship with Kubiak at A&M. Perhaps, and this is just a long shot here, Kubiak actually hired Sherman to coach an offensive line and to add insight to being a head coach of an NFL team.

Kinda' crazy to think that this is what could have transpired, because, well...that's what transpired.

No, must be something conspiratorial about it, so carry on with your unanchored opinions and speculation. Off-season can be fun that way.

In the meantime, I'll stick with the historical record and common sense.

I'll go with "McNair hiring Sherman to add insight to being a head coach of an NFL team" for 200, Alex.

All I am doing is theorizing. Is that some freaking crime? You act like I'm betraying the country, or God, or something. As if my thoughts somehow shape anything at all.

It's. Just. An. Opinion.

Lighten up, Francis.

 

[GP]

Sherman seemed to have had a significant say in the direction of the Offense, at least the running game. We had a "hybrid" running game. The problem was that they incompatibly ran in opposite directions.

Which fits pretty well with what I am saying: The run game was a disaster, mostly because you had Sherman and Kubiak attempting a time share. This is the NFL, not a board game where each person gets a turn.

Why would a ZBS guy (Kubiak) hire a Green Bay-style guy like Sherman and then have to split time with the competing (or hybrid) scheme? If Kubiak had all this supposed control from day 1, then why didn't he institute a full-fledged ZBS with the best available ZBS guy who was out there? Hell, hire Terrell Davis or a former Broncos lineman from those glory days for that matter. But instead, he wanted Sherman? Who was gone after a year?

Nobody wants to reply to Obsi's post, just mine. Which proves this has become more about picking me apart than anything else. It's possible that my thoughts are plausible, just as it's possible that Kubiak picked all these losers and had to fire them. I'm just throwing out the chance that this common sense and conventional wisdom that's being ballyhooed might not be the real story. We'll never know, either (gee, that sounds familiar).

It's like that first year was a complete wash, especially with McNair FORCING Kubiak to retain David Carr and give it one last go for $8 million.

I apologize for trying to provide a counter-argument on a message board. I don't know what I was thinking. Silly me.

 

[barrett]

Or maybe, just maybe, he was hired for his coaching acumen. Sherman had a working relationship with Kubiak at A&M. Perhaps, and this is just a long shot here, Kubiak actually hired Sherman to coach an offensive line and to add insight to being a head coach of an NFL team.

Kinda' crazy to think that this is what could have transpired, because, well...that's what transpired.

No, must be something conspiratorial about it, so carry on with your unanchored opinions and speculation. Off-season can be fun that way.

In the meantime, I'll stick with the historical record and common sense.

rep-ilicious!

 

[Runner]

From Kubiak's own lips at a recent luncheon...



Seven years ago, sounds like Kubiak was turned down in favor of Capers. Just because he (McNair)reconsidered in '06, doesn't mean McNair gave Kubiak total, unfettered, control. In fact, looking back at Sherman's hiring, I kinda doubt that he did. Maybe Kubiak was initially brought in to save HWWNBN's Texans career. And only after team improvement was demonstrated did McNair take the training wheels off and let him (Kubiak) bring in the guys he really wanted.

like the Toosie Pop commercials used to say: the world may never know

Just be consistent then. If Kubiak had the bad decisions forced on him, then he doesn't get credit for the good decisions either. They were just as likely someone else's too. Makes me wonder why he gets paid so much, since he has no real authority or reponsibility.

I'm starting to think Kubiak is just a puppet and Shanahan is running the team. An astute businessman like McNair would do that rather than have such a young head coach. It makes sense. A lot of the team's improvement happened after Shanny got here.

I think I could come up with a lot of examples why this is true - is it just coincidence Dre had his best year after Shanny became shadow head coach? What about the improvement in the running game?

It is so plausible, I shouldn't feel so silly writing it. I blame the silly feeling on the "critical thinking" portion of my Philosophy of Knowledge class in college.

 

[Runner]

It is just as absurd to assign blame for the re-signing of Carr on the Texans head coach as it is to hold McNair responsible for the selection of Richard Smith as defensive coordinator. The re-signing of David Carr was all McNair. Sure, the Texans head coach said he could work with Carr. He was wrong. No one could have or has since. The Texans head coach gave it his very best shot, and you can make a case that Carr played his best football under his tutelage.

IIRC, one of the main reasons it appears that Carr was forced on Kubiak was the length of time that it took the Texans to exercise their option on Carr. Was that the common thinking at the time?

 

[Lucky]

Which fits pretty well with what I am saying: The run game was a disaster, mostly because you had Sherman and Kubiak attempting a time share.

The run game was a disaster mostly because Ron Dayne was your best running back.

Nobody wants to reply to Obsi's post, just mine. Which proves this has become more about picking me apart than anything else.

I apologize for trying to provide a counter-argument on a message board. I don't know what I was thinking. Silly me.

Lighten up, Francis.

You might consider taking your own advice.

Membership in one org does not automatically exclude one from the other; despite seeming appearances to the contrary.
welcome aboard - wear your Sunshine badge proudly!

I've broken far too many of the Sunshine Club's 10 Commandments to be allowed through those shiny gates. My only salvation could come from the Texans head coach, himself, laying his hands on me and removing my sins. Which could happen as soon as tomorrow night's All Access.

 

[Runner]

I love this thread.

 

[Lucky]

IIRC, one of the main reasons it appears that Carr was forced on Kubiak was the length of time that it took the Texans to exercise their option on Carr. Was that the common thinking at the time?

Anyone taking the Texans head coaching job in 2006 was doing so with the understanding that David Carr was the QB. That was McNair's boy. The new Houston Texans head coach said all the right things about Carr, both to the public and McNair, and got the gig. I could speculate that he was lying through his teeth just to get the job. But, I think the Texans head coach is a straight shooter (What about the injuries, Lucky?) and really believed he could turn Carr around.

 

[thunderkyss]

I'll go with "McNair hiring Sherman to add insight to being a head coach of an NFL team" for 200, Alex.

For me to buy into this "plausible" line of thinking, what's the connection? We know what the Kubiak-Sherman Connection is. We know what the Kubiak-Gibbs connection is. What is the McNair-Sherman/McNair-Gibbs connection? No doubt in my mind, Kubiak brought them in.

If it was McNair...... why wouldn't he have just hired Sherman, or a more experienced HC to begin with?

It it were McNair.... why is Kubiak still here, and not Sherman? From what I understand, A&M would have preferred Kubiak.

 

[Runner]

My only salvation could come from the Texans head coach, himself, laying his hands on me and removing my sins. Which could happen as soon as tomorrow night's All Access.

I've heard of this rite! The "Anointing with Brylcreem".

 

[GP]

The run game was a disaster mostly because Ron Dayne was your best running back.

You might consider taking your own advice.

I've broken far too many of the Sunshine Club's 10 Commandments to be allowed through those shiny gates. My only salvation could come from the Texans head coach, himself, laying his hands on me and removing my sins. Which could happen as soon as tomorrow night's All Access.

LOL. I'm not going to bite the bait on this deal by refusing to return your fire. I will say that I think you're taking it a bit too far with the increased use of what some might consider to be borderline sacrilegious comments; it's kinda' being driven into the ground isn't it? We get it: We're dumb sheep following our cultist leader and so on and so forth.

My attitude is great, actually. I think we're going to do awesome. Not all of what has been successful is a direct result of Gary Kubiak's handiwork, but not all of what has gone is his fault, either. Above all, he's done the best job out of the two coaches we've had. I think the fact that we're even talking playoffs, with seriousness, means this team is headed in the right direction. Now the whole team--coaches AND players--have got to come out swinging for the fences on kickoff weekend.

Once again: Nobody is being forced to put there hand on a sacred item and take some sort of loyalty pledge for one side or the other. I've enjoyed this thread, even if it has run its course. It's the off-season, after all.

 

[Runner]

Anyone taking the Texans head coaching job in 2006 was doing so with the understanding that David Carr was the QB. That was McNair's boy. The new Houston Texans head coach said all the right things about Carr, both to the public and McNair, and got the gig. I could speculate that he was lying through his teeth just to get the job. But, I think the Texans head coach is a straight shooter (What about the injuries, Lucky?) and really believed he could turn Carr around.

I have no doubt that both statements are true. The new Texans coach had to take Carr, and Kubiak thought he could coach him up.

I was asking about why it took so long for the Texans to exercise their option on Carr. Just dredging up ancient history. Better left alone; I was just reminded of something.