Kubes on the hotseat????

[GP]

For me to buy into this "plausible" line of thinking, what's the connection? We know what the Kubiak-Sherman Connection is. We know what the Kubiak-Gibbs connection is. What is the McNair-Sherman/McNair-Gibbs connection? No doubt in my mind, Kubiak brought them in.

If it was McNair...... why wouldn't he have just hired Sherman, or a more experienced HC to begin with?

It it were McNair.... why is Kubiak still here, and not Sherman? From what I understand, A&M would have preferred Kubiak.

Well, then let's look at it and see:

Sherman had just been ridden out of Green Bay, correct? Why would you want to hire a coach coming off what easily appeared to be a fading NFL HC career? Isn't it pretty standard business, unless you're one of those elitist NFL coaches, to go down a notch (assume a lesser role somewhere) when you've just been fired from being a HC somewhere? Not many NFL HCs can go from a dying ember to another HC gig right away.

If so, Sherman was available as a coordinator (heck, they even gave him the Assistant Head Coach title, correct?)...McNair might have felt that an old A&M colleague would work OK with Kubiak...and it afforded a veteran voice for the rookie head coach (Kubiak) to have some support for a year or so.

A&M came calling, but Gary had just started the NFL HC job that he had obviously been wanting for for a long, long time. And then there's Sherman, who isn't tied to the Texans because he was probably never anything more than training wheels in the first place...or a good Plan B if the Kubiak experiment went badly all of a sudden. I don't doubt that A&M preferred Kubiak over Sherman, just as I don't doubt that McNair preferred Kubiak over Sherman. But Kubiak didn't go for it. So the bridesmaid got it.

Even if Kubiak was the one who brought Sherman in, it still could have been McNair who said "Look, you are going to need a veteran assistant. Do you have any preferences?" There might have been a list prepared by McNair and the Texans FO, and Sherman was a choice on it. It might have been ONLY Sherman. Who knows?

The telling thing, to me, is that his style of run game was trying to be fused with the ZBS. It wasn't working, and the bigger question is "Why was he even dabbling in the run game anyways?" If it was Kubiak's team, would Kubiak really want to go the Green Bay route with the run game as opposed to what he knew better (the ZBS)?

I think Sherman left on good terms. He wanted to be a HC, he's an A&M guy, and the Aggies didn't get their first pick in Kubiak. Two years in a row, Sherman was at the right spot at the right time it seems.

 

[GP]

I have no doubt that both statements are true. The new Texans coach had to take Carr, and Kubiak thought he could coach him up.

I was asking about why it took so long for the Texans to exercise their option on Carr. Just dredging up ancient history. Better left alone; I was just reminded of something.

I wonder myself if Kubiak lied, knowing he wasn't going to be able to coach him up (so he lies to get the gig). Or, if he really felt he could do it.

At the minimum, I think he was ready to give it a shot. At the other end, it's possible that it was something he felt he had to do just to get in the door.

I am sensing that there's some angst for some fans on here if it turns out that he lied to get the gig. To me, I don't care--This isn't Swiss Family Robinson; it's business. You do what you gotta' do, especially if you know that there's a "hook" you have to bite just to even get the job. So IMO, there's equal blame on that sort of deal if that's what transpired.

 

[Lucky]

I was asking about why it took so long for the Texans to exercise their option on Carr. Just dredging up ancient history. Better left alone; I was just reminded of something.

Texans_Chick may have written something on this in her Chronic blog, way back when. I believe that Carr couldn't be extended until the new league year (2006) actually began. And the Texans had to wait until that date to exercise a contractual rule that allowed them to allocate $2 million of Carr's $8 million option bonus in the previous year's (2005) salary cap. That's how I'm remembering it.

 

[HoustonFrog]

I love this thread.

Love reading it.

 

[ObsiWan]

I would like to point out that it is inconsistent to give Kubiak full credit for all things good and full exoneration for all things bad. However, since those statements fit in nicely with the belief system, I'm sure I'll be told that they aren't inconsistencies as much as they are proof of Kubiak's near infallibility.

it's flawless, indisputable logic like that that just ruins a good, emotion-filled message board argument.

curse you Red Baron!

 

[The Pencil Neck]

I wonder myself if Kubiak lied, knowing he wasn't going to be able to coach him up (so he lies to get the gig). Or, if he really felt he could do it.

My feeling on this was that Kubiak looked at the tape of HWWNBN and saw him making easily fixable mistakes. Then he came in and tried to fix him but Carr would not be fixed. Back in the day, I had said in another thread that if you saw the mistakes that Carr was making in the Oakland game, any coach would think he could fix them. Kubiak came in, tried to fix him, simplified things for him, and was able to increase his completion percentage... but Kubes realized half way through the year that he was wrong. It was going to take too much to fix Carr. If Sage hadn't broken his hand, he would have closed out the season.

If you go back and look at that piece that Baldinger did on Carr during the Raider game, it's amazing. He had two guys open facing him, asking for the ball, but he was afraid of throwing a pick so he pulled the ball down and ran. He was totally broken by that point.

 

[GP]

Texans_Chick may have written something on this in her Chronic blog, way back when. I believe that Carr couldn't be extended until the new league year (2006) actually began. And the Texans had to wait until that date to exercise a contractual rule that allowed them to allocate $2 million of Carr's $8 million option bonus in the previous year's (2005) salary cap. That's how I'm remembering it.

And yet there was also a deadline for when it had to be done by, if the Texans choose to exercise the option. I am thinking it had to be done by June (not sure on the exact day, though).

I think I recall a lot of fans on the message board who were praying that the deadline would pass and that it would mean Carr was gone.

There was some real a-n-g-e-r on here when the Texans picked up his option. I was in the "Let's see, now that he and Kubiak are working this thing out, if it was the o-line, the coaching, or the QB."

Didn't the sack total start to steadily decline each year, beginning in that last Carr season? I think I remember it was low in the last Carr season, and then even lower in the first Schaub season.

 

[ObsiWan]

Just be consistent then. If Kubiak had the bad decisions forced on him, then he doesn't get credit for the good decisions either. They were just as likely someone else's too. Makes me wonder why he gets paid so much, since he has no real authority or reponsibility.

I'm starting to think Kubiak is just a puppet and Shanahan is running the team. An astute businessman like McNair would do that rather than have such a young head coach. It makes sense. A lot of the team's improvement happened after Shanny got here.

I think I could come up with a lot of examples why this is true - is it just coincidence Dre had his best year after Shanny became shadow head coach? What about the improvement in the running game?

It is so plausible, I shouldn't feel so silly writing it. I blame the silly feeling on the "critical thinking" portion of my Philosophy of Knowledge class in college.

I'm only saying look at the timeline. As Kubiak progressively showed he could handle the job maybe McNair did step back and take the training wheels off. I don't really believe that Sherman was brought in as a spy, but as a "big brother" who could offer advice when asked..? Why not?

As for the improvement after little Shanny got here, well, I think it was part him and part we got better players, Matt Schaub being the most important one. Does anyone think that call wasn't Kubiak's?

And I agree with Runner when he said, if Kubiak gets credit then he gets blame too. Comes with the title "head coach".

gosh, I hope I didn't just kill this thread or have my Sunshine Club membership revoked

 

[Double Barrel]

I'll go with "McNair hiring Sherman to add insight to being a head coach of an NFL team" for 200, Alex.

All I am doing is theorizing. Is that some freaking crime? You act like I'm betraying the country, or God, or something. As if my thoughts somehow shape anything at all.

It's. Just. An. Opinion.

Lighten up, Francis.

I never said your pure speculation was a crime at all. But you seem to get your panties in a wad anytime someone connects actual dots instead of the dots you seem to see when you hold your breath long enough.

As far as lightening up, I think you're taking yourself much to serious. I'm only offering a perspective that can be supported with what we actually know, instead of wild-eyed conspiracy theories that are created only to make sure the sunlight shines on your daisies.

As thunderkyss mentioned, it is pretty easy to understand the connection between Kubiak and Sherman. They have a friendship based upon working together in the past. It's simply a matter of you comprehending Occam's razor (i.e. The simplest explanation for a phenomenon is most likely the correct explanation).

 

[Runner]

I…I think it's finally over. Our reactionary emotional response seems to have stopped it dead in its tracks. If I'm right, all we have to do now is smugly reiterate our half-formed thesis and—oh, no! For the love of God, no! It's thoughtfully mulling things over!

Run! Run! It's making reasonable, fact-based arguments!

Quickly! Hide behind self-righteousness! The ad hominem rejoinders—ready the ad hominem rejoinders! Watch out! Dodge the issue at hand! Question its character and keep moving haphazardly from one flawed point to the next!

All together now! Put every bit of secondhand conjecture into it you've got!

http://www.theonion.com/content/opinion/oh_no_its_making_well_reasoned?utm_source=b-section

 

[GP]

I never said your pure speculation was a crime at all. But you seem to get your panties in a wad anytime someone connects actual dots instead of the dots you seem to see when you hold your breath long enough.

As far as lightening up, I think you're taking yourself much to serious. I'm only offering a perspective that can be supported with what we actually know, instead of wild-eyed conspiracy theories that are created only to make sure the sunlight shines on your daisies.

As thunderkyss mentioned, it is pretty easy to understand the connection between Kubiak and Sherman. They have a friendship based upon working together in the past. It's simply a matter of you comprehending Occam's razor (i.e. The simplest explanation for a phenomenon is most likely the correct explanation).

LOL. This has been reduced to petty in-fighting. Period.

I'm only bringing about a possibility, to counteract the conventional wisdom that is supposed to be accepted as pure fact. General George Patton once said that when "Everybody is thinking the same thing, nobody is thinking."

I wondered how long it would take before you or Lucky or Runner had to come back to this thread and keep it alive.

The thread is dead, and yet you guys keep digging it up. I can hang, so just keep it up. To come back and keep the thread alive, is showing that YOU are taking it wayyyy more personal than I. You're trying to get the last word and make me cow down.

Why don't you attack Obsi, a guy who has shown similar thoughts along the idea that Kubiak might not have had much choice in coaches early on? But it's all directed toward me, which is only making you look petty.

 

[Runner]

Taking it personal? I'm keeping this thread alive because it makes me laugh. I like reading what-ifs like "what if the Texans are much improved and go 4-12?" Uhmm, is that really possible? I didn't even take the amateur (I assume) psychoanalysis I received early on in the thread personally.

I've been responding to everyone. I'm not responding to one person specifically if several people share a similar view. I also assume lots of people read my bloviation. I mean c'mon - who doesn't want to read my next installment?

Seems like everyone wants the thread to die...after they get the last word.

Note I also "personally attacked" Thunderkyss by asking, (nay demanding!) he name a bad 15-1 team that he theorized.

This post was in direct response to you, GP. Rest assured it will be the last one that will be. My posts will be directed to the group as a whole.

 

[Lucky]

Seems like everyone wants the thread to die...after they get the last word.

Bump

 

[Runner]

Dammit Lucky!

 

[GP]

Taking it personal? I'm keeping this thread alive because it makes me laugh. I like reading what-ifs like "what if the Texans are much improved and go 4-12?" Uhmm, is that really possible? I didn't even take the amateur (I assume) psychoanalysis I received early on in the thread personally.

I've been responding to everyone. I'm not responding to one person specifically if several people share a similar view. I also assume lots of people read my bloviation. I mean c'mon - who doesn't want to read my next installment?

Seems like everyone wants the thread to die...after they get the last word.

Note I also "personally attacked" Thunderkyss by asking, (nay demanding!) he name a bad 15-1 team that he theorized.

This post was in direct response to you, GP. Rest assured it will be the last one that will be. My posts will be directed to the group as a whole.

Obsi had made the last post. I assumed everyone, including myself, was glad to see it descending down the thread list because it had gone for so long without a reply. That's what we all wanted, because it had run its course.

Rest assured it wasn't me who put this thread back on life support. It was a mod. Which is something a regular poster would have been chastised, by a mod, for doing.

I've enjoyed the posts that dealt with the topic. I'm guilty of swerving into subjective/personally critical avenues a few times, as others are also guilty of doing from time to time.

Aw hell, I am now the last post on this thread. Someone get the thread-killing stake and ram it through its heart already.

 

[Runner]

Seems like everyone wants the thread to die...after they get the last word.

Obsi had made the last post. I assumed everyone, including myself, was glad to see it descending down the thread list because it had gone for so long without a reply. That's what we all wanted, because it had run its course.

Rest assured it wasn't me who put this thread back on life support. It was a mod. Which is something a regular poster would have been chastised, by a mod, for doing.

Just to be clear, my post said everyone and they which is what I meant. It doesn't say GP and he.

I would have dredged it up to put in that Onion link if it was still languishing. I'd stop if I had the last word. I am they.

===============

To be absolutely clear, when I refer to the believers I'm talking to a group of posters with similar opinions. You know who you are.

 

[GNTLEWOLF]

So..... in summation: I take it from what I/ve read then that there are some who will be content to have mediocraty from now on as long as the team doesn't crash, and the rest of us who believe that if the team doesn't show significant improvement in the won/loss column that Kubiak will certainly be on the hot seat.

 

[Runner]

So..... in summation: I take it from what I/ve read then that there are some who will be content to have mediocraty from now on as long as the team doesn't crash, and the rest of us who believe that if the team doesn't show significant improvement in the won/loss column that Kubiak will certainly be on the hot seat.

I think you've missed several subtleties* with your simplification. Would you like me to restate some significant points/inconsistencies/areas for future thought to get this thread moving again?



*I looked it up - this is spelled correctly. It looks weird to me.

 

[steelbtexan]

Here's to the Houston Texans winning the Super Bowl in 2010.

Last Post

LOL

 

[GNTLEWOLF]

I think you've missed several subtleties* with your simplification. Would you like me to restate some significant points/inconsistencies/areas for future thought to get this thread moving again?



*I looked it up - this is spelled correctly. It looks weird to me.

LOL actually yes..... My simplification was an attempt to weed out many of the wild theories stated as to how a team can stay the same or get worse and at the same time be better. I was really trying to :
a) get to the heart of the matter and
b) get the thread back on track, but

I have truely enjoyed watching you toy with everyone and I love seeing how this thread seems to have a life of its own. So at your pleasure...state away.

 

[Texecutioner]

So..... in summation: I take it from what I/ve read then that there are some who will be content to have mediocraty from now on as long as the team doesn't crash, and the rest of us who believe that if the team doesn't show significant improvement in the won/loss column that Kubiak will certainly be on the hot seat.

Kubes is on the hot seat right now if you ask me, and I'm sure that he feels the same way. It's just a matter of how hot is his seat at the beginning of the season as far as what "Mcnair expects" for this entire season and what actually happens at the end of the season. But this is Kubes 4th year now, so it's put up or shut up time to show some real progression and not just the kind of progression where we say that we were a better 8-8 team than we were last season. We have to be a much better team without question.

 

[GNTLEWOLF]

Kubes is on the hot seat right now if you ask me, and I'm sure that he feels the same way. It's just a matter of how hot is his seat at the beginning of the season as far as what "Mcnair expects" for this entire season and what actually happens at the end of the season. But this is Kubes 4th year now, so it's put up or shut up time to show some real progression and not just the kind of progression where we say that we were a better 8-8 team than we were last season. We have to be a much better team without question.

I actually agree with what you are saying. My personal feeling is the team has to do better than 9-7 this year. That is my litmus test. But, I'm not so sure McNair sees it that way. I think if he finishes 9-7 or even 8-8 he gets another year.( and the thought of that sickens me) However, after next year if the team is still hoovering at around 500 and have not made the play-offs, I think McNair cans him.

 

[Specnatz]

Every coach is on the hot seat every year. Unless you just got hired by the Detroit Lions then yu have at least one year to not get worse.

Or you have won the super Bowl in the last two years or your franchise super stud QB was hurt all of last year.

 

[beerlover]

Every coach is on the hot seat every year. Unless you just got hired by the Detroit Lions then yu have at least one year to not get worse.

Or you have won the super Bowl in the last two years or your franchise super stud QB was hurt all of last year.

maybe the Patriots didn't make the playoffs (what 11-5 not good enough) yet they still are the Champions of the NFL in my opinion (Personally I loathe them) they keep manufacturing a competitive product. their drafts are sheer legend as is their tight fisted F/A polices/contract neogotiations (are you listening Dunta). coaching is everything it would seem yet its how they match & blend it into their system that makes it so succesful.

In reference to Texans I think we can all see certain facets come together as if closing a loop. the peices are in place or in very close proximity so that on field success isn't far behind. Kubiak is the best thing to happen to Houston in a long long while.........

 

[GNTLEWOLF]

Every coach is on the hot seat every year. Unless you just got hired by the Detroit Lions then yu have at least one year to not get worse.

Or you have won the super Bowl in the last two years or your franchise super stud QB was hurt all of last year.

While that is true, there comes a point in time where every coach must fish or cut bait because the front office and/or the fans feel that they deserve better. In my opinion this is that year for Kubiak. My feeling is that the team must do considerably better than 8-8 in order for him to get that contract extension. Now, I have no inside information , nor do I personally know McNair or Rick Smith, so They may see things differently. I however, think that Kubiak is at the crossroads of his Texans career. He either shows he can get it done, or he is (done). But then again, that is just my two cents.

 

[Grams]

Enough already guys. Starts something new. Please.

 

[HOU-TEX]

I like Kubiak

 

[Runner]

I've decided to put myself on ignore for a couple of days. Can someone tell me if I post something worthwhile, or at least interesting?

Thanks.

 

[Specnatz]

Enough already guys. Starts something new. Please.

We could start a poll in who is the best GranMa of the Texans you or G'Ma?

 

[GP]

I've decided to put myself on ignore for a couple of days. Can someone tell me if I post something worthwhile, or at least interesting?

Thanks.

LOL.

Here's my game plan I've crafted for myself:

I feel like Corporal Klinger trying to get a Section 8 to get out of here.

 

[Double Barrel]

LOL. This has been reduced to petty in-fighting. Period.

Not at all. You're just making some rather wild accusations and don't like it when others don't share the perspective. This ain't fighting, though. Check out the NSZ for examples of real debates.

I wondered how long it would take before you or Lucky or Runner had to come back to this thread and keep it alive.

The thread is dead, and yet you guys keep digging it up. I can hang, so just keep it up. To come back and keep the thread alive, is showing that YOU are taking it wayyyy more personal than I. You're trying to get the last word and make me cow down.

Why don't you attack Obsi, a guy who has shown similar thoughts along the idea that Kubiak might not have had much choice in coaches early on? But it's all directed toward me, which is only making you look petty.

In your eyes, you're right. And that's all right with me.

As far as "taking it personal", give me a break, man. Seriously, it's just a conversation. I have absolutely no animosity or negative feelings about this thread or anyone in it. Why you feel the need to make such ludicrous statements is beyond my comprehension, and not something that I'm prone to give any thought towards figuring out.

I like Kubiak

Me, too. But that doesn't change his status on (or not on) the seat of heat.

 

[GP]

Not at all. You're just making some rather wild accusations and don't like it when others don't share the perspective. This ain't fighting, though. Check out the NSZ for examples of real debates.

No thanks. I'd rather just go down to the local barber shop and listen to a bunch of guys sit around and solve the world's problems in an hour-and-a-half.

And it has nothing to do with me being pouty when someone doesn't agree with me. On the contrary, this is more about a few grumpy posters who are taking their rabid NSZ forum attitudes and dropping them onto the posters here in the Texans Talk forum. Glad you mentioned the NSZ, since you probably helped me better understand the doggedness and crankiness going on in this thread.

 

[Double Barrel]

I read the NSZ, but I don't post much in there. So put your assumptions in a hot dog bun and eat them.

I think you are failing to understand that Texans - of all people - know bullshit when they see it.

Just having fun, man, so nothing personal. It's a long off-season this year.

 

[ObsiWan]

Enough already guys. Starts something new. Please.

the monster, that this thread has become, still lives!

 

[Texecutioner]

 

[powerfuldragon]

whoa... what am i doing in this section?

 

[mexican_texan]

And it has nothing to do with me being pouty when someone doesn't agree with me. On the contrary, this is more about a few grumpy posters who are taking their rabid NSZ forum attitudes and dropping them onto the posters here in the Texans Talk forum.

Irony at it's finest.

 

[thunderkyss]

Kubes isn't going anywhere for 10 years, win or lose.

 

[Runner]

"I play this game of football for only one reason and that's to win," Johnson said Monday. "I don't play it for anything else. When you go over guys' careers, of all the former guys that have played, the first question they ask is how many Super Bowls have they won."

"So that's my goal. To win as many Super Bowls as I can before my time is up."

...


Johnson and Schaub often talk about their goal of making the playoffs, but Johnson said that talk is getting redundant.

"We talk about it, but it doesn't really matter if you don't put it out on the field," Johnson said. "We know what we have to do. It's not a secret. It's crazy to just keep talking about it all the time when it's not happening. It's on both of our minds and we know where we want to be."

http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=555600

Wow. It looks like Dre judges success by success. The guy wants to win! Just as I suspected.

Somebody better send him some fan mail and tell him to be happy with spins of constant improvement. He needs to get jacked up on how 8-8 is better than that other 8-8 and forget about those misleading win/loss columns. I mean, he almost seems dissatisfied with missing the playoffs.



Wait, let me guess! There is another interpretation of his quotes...

 

[The Pencil Neck]

http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=555600

Wow. It looks like Dre judges success by success. The guy wants to win! Just as I suspected.

Somebody better send him some fan mail and tell him to be happy with spins of constant improvement. He needs to get jacked up on how 8-8 is better than that other 8-8 and forget about those misleading win/loss columns. I mean, he almost seems dissatisfied with missing the playoffs.



Wait, let me guess! There is another interpretation of his quotes...

I've said this before a few times.

What Andre is saying is exactly what players have to say and have to really feel to be great players. As a player, you can't be happy or satisfied with gradual improvement. You can't be happy with a little bit here and a little bit there. Every loss should be a slap in the face.

That's if you're a player.

If you're a fan, you've got to have a different worldview. If you have that player's type of view and you're not satisfied with your team... what can you do? Not buy tickets? Not watch them anymore? Basically stop being a fan? That's unacceptable to me.

Fans have to be able to look at the game and the season differently because their fanhood isn't defined over a few short seasons. It's defined by being a fan when the team sucks as well as when the team does well. If a team gets to the Super Bowl and loses, fans should be happy just to have gotten there and that their team is a winner while a player can't be satisfied with that loss. If a team is perennially in the play-offs and lose there, a fan should be happy while a player should be pissed off. If you're a fan then you've got to realize that there are going to be bad stretches. Every team goes through them. To a player, that's not acceptable.

To a fan, you should be happy if your team wins at least half its games, happier if it makes the play-offs, even happier if it gets to the championship or Super Bowl. To a player, you have to be pissed off unless you win the Super Bowl.

I want my team to win the Super Bowl every year but I'm perfectly fine if that doesn't happen. If my team is continually getting better, I'm happy. If my team is losing, I'm sad but I'm still a fan. If my team is 8-8, I'm not that upset because at least they weren't a losing team.

If you're only going to be happy if your team is winning the Super Bowl every year, then you should change your allegiance every year at the start of the season. And that's just being a fair weather fan and that's not acceptable to me... but that's the mind-set it takes to be a really great player.

 

[Fox]

Crap, Andre wants to win? Someone's gonna have to break the news to him..... We've known for months now that Kubiak's incapable of winning more than 8 games!

 

[Runner]

Crap, Andre wants to win? Someone's gonna have to break the news to him..... We've known for months now that Kubiak's incapable of winning more than 8 games!

Incapable? Wow, that is a weak claim. Of course, your quote was the first time I've seen that statement on this thread, so I don't know who "we" refers too...

I'm still with Dre even though I'm a lowly fan. I want success in the win/loss column over success in conversation; it is still the real measuring stick. I'm not going to let acceptance of average records build up like adipocerous over my expectations.

 

[The Pencil Neck]

I'm still with Dre even though I'm a lowly fan. I want success in the win/loss column over success in conversation; it is still the real measuring stick. I'm not going to let acceptance of average records build up like adipocerous over my expectations.

We all want success. As a fan, all we can do is want it.

If you're a fan, you have to either accept the record they give you or you have to turn your back on the team. Those are your only choices. Your only way to "not accept" a mediocre or losing record is to walk away... or maybe run, in your case.

 

[Runner]

We all want success. As a fan, all we can do is want it.

If you're a fan, you have to either accept the record they give you or you have to turn your back on the team. Those are your only choices. Your only way to "not accept" a mediocre or losing record is to walk away... or maybe run, in your case.

Don't forget the much used option of redefining, in hindsight, success as something other than winning.

My acceptance statement was argued against out of context. I said I wouldn't let acceptance of average seasons lower my expectations. The expectations part is important, although the whole statement is harder to argue against than just the fragment.

I fully accept that the Texans have never had a winning season. I expect better, and I expect changes if things don't get better in the next couple of years or so.

 

[GP]

Don't forget the much used option of redefining, in hindsight, success as something other than winning.

My acceptance statement was argued against out of context. I said I wouldn't let acceptance of average seasons lower my expectations. The expectations part is important, although the whole statement is harder to argue against than just the fragment.

I fully accept that the Texans have never had a winning season. I expect better, and I expect changes if things don't get better in the next couple of years or so.

Next "couple" of years "or so."

What's the "or so" about?

I thought Kubiak had this year, and that if it was an 8-8 year (or hell, some say 9-7 or maybe even 10-6 won't cut it) that he would be fortunate to be given one more season which would then be his last chance. That's two years.

What's the "or so" supposed to mean?

Doesn't that indicate a possibility of more than 2 years, which I had ASSumed was totally incompatible with the mindset of some on this thread. It's this year, and MAYBE one more year if McNair is stupid enough to give him an extra year.

Once again, the thread was almost laid to rest...and once again one of the rain cloud club has to dig its stinking corpse up all over again. Maybe we should have cremated it...

 

[GP]

I've said this before a few times.

What Andre is saying is exactly what players have to say and have to really feel to be great players. As a player, you can't be happy or satisfied with gradual improvement. You can't be happy with a little bit here and a little bit there. Every loss should be a slap in the face.

That's if you're a player.

If you're a fan, you've got to have a different worldview. If you have that player's type of view and you're not satisfied with your team... what can you do? Not buy tickets? Not watch them anymore? Basically stop being a fan? That's unacceptable to me.

Fans have to be able to look at the game and the season differently because their fanhood isn't defined over a few short seasons. It's defined by being a fan when the team sucks as well as when the team does well. If a team gets to the Super Bowl and loses, fans should be happy just to have gotten there and that their team is a winner while a player can't be satisfied with that loss. If a team is perennially in the play-offs and lose there, a fan should be happy while a player should be pissed off. If you're a fan then you've got to realize that there are going to be bad stretches. Every team goes through them. To a player, that's not acceptable.

To a fan, you should be happy if your team wins at least half its games, happier if it makes the play-offs, even happier if it gets to the championship or Super Bowl. To a player, you have to be pissed off unless you win the Super Bowl.

I want my team to win the Super Bowl every year but I'm perfectly fine if that doesn't happen. If my team is continually getting better, I'm happy. If my team is losing, I'm sad but I'm still a fan. If my team is 8-8, I'm not that upset because at least they weren't a losing team.

If you're only going to be happy if your team is winning the Super Bowl every year, then you should change your allegiance every year at the start of the season. And that's just being a fair weather fan and that's not acceptable to me... but that's the mind-set it takes to be a really great player.

I think hardcore fans go through their own seasons of being able to let stuff go and move on...and then getting very agitated over it at some point...and then maybe some indifference every now and then. I went through that over the past three seasons, and I'm back to thinking that things might actually be OK now.

I still think a lot of people who have been driving the hot seat argument are just trying to be somewhat of a one-upper to the dumbass fans who aren't smart enough to know how this thing called NFL really works. We need their help, they have the truth, and we WILL be told about it over and over and over and over and over.....

 

[Double Barrel]

Johnson and Schaub often talk about their goal of making the playoffs, but Johnson said that talk is getting redundant.

yada yada yada

16-0 until proven otherwise, right GP?

 

[Runner]

First of all, I'm speaking for myself so there is no need to challenge me to answer statements others have made. Attributing words of others to me in an effort to twist my meaning isn't a good argument against me. In fact, I'd say it might be seen as evidence that posters can't attack my post directly. I've seen that twisting by many posters on this thread.

"or so" means give or take a year. I am not one gifted with a crystal ball and can therefore say go 8-8 and fire the coaches this year. Nor am I one that knows for a fact through a different crystal ball that the team is buildng the right way and is guaranteed years of success with Kubiak at the helm. I know many factors must be evaluated; I just think win/loss record is the major component over a period of years. I doubt Kubiak lasts year after year after year with statistical and feel good improvements if they don't translate into wins.

In addition, I don't think I've said much, if anything, about firing Kubiak on this thread. I've been part of the side discussion that success in the NFL is measured in wins. That gets argument enough. There is more to this thread than the Kubiak hot seat, no matter what the title is. Cramming every statement into keep/fire Kubiak boxes is lazy thinking or seems to be done just so the poster can be raged at. My statement that wins are the most important measurement of success in the NFL (especially over time) does not mean "fire Kubiak". Reading my words should give a much better understanding of my points than changing everything to "he's a fire Kubiak guy".

About this thread being a stinking corpse

A) you knew what adipocerous means
B) you looked it up
C) what a coincidence

 

[GP]

I'd rather have Gary Kubiak--Heck, I'd even rather have Kyle Shanahan as or head coach than these two bumbling idiots that The Czar talks about: Dumb and Dumber

The two guys in this article are examples of owners playing Head Coach Lotto, and reaping the whirlwind for their attempt to try and get "a name."

Mangini might just be psycho after this latest genius idea he had.

 

[GP]

First of all, I'm speaking for myself so there is no need to challenge me to answer statements others have made.

"or so" means give or take a year. I am not one gifted with a crystal ball and can therefore say go 8-8 and fire the coaches this year. Nor am I one that knows for a fact through a different crystal ball that the team is buildng the right way and is guaranteed years of success with Kubiak at the helm. I know many factors must be evaluated; I just think win/loss record is the major component over a period of years. I doubt Kubiak lasts year after year after year with statistical and feel good improvements if they don't translate into wins.

In addition, I don't think I've said much, if anything, about firing Kubiak on this thread. I've been part of the side discussion that success in the NFL is measured in wins. That gets argument enough.

About this thread being a stinking corpse

A) you knew what adipocerous means
B) you looked it up
C) what a coincidence

Uhh...unless I developed amnesia, I never looked up that word. I looked up the Holland painting forger guy you named. You include so many of them in your posts that it would take too long to research them all.

It's cute to try and keep up with your cryptic references. To a point. Then it begins to be a bit condescending, IMO, for people to be spoken to with words that most people stopped using after high school literature class ended.

I'd rather have Gary Kubiak stumble through a few seasons that should have been playoff years if it means that we suddenly take off and become a 10-year (long term) team that is either in the playoffs, AFC championship games, divisional winner, etc.

For example: Bowlen probably had to get rid of Shanahan because that era was just so over and done with for him. He goes out and grabs a name (McDaniels) because its obvious that a coach with the Patriots will better the Broncos. Except McDaniels is a freak just like Weis is, just like Mangini is. Bowlen went and grabbed a name. Yet sometimes a head coach just stumbles upon a great formula and has some weird breaks go his way (the Tom Brady effect, which only happened as early as it did because Bledsoe got hurt). I would have expected Mangini to be honest with himself after his Jets tenure, and realize that he needs to lay off the freak juice a bit...but hell nah. He's back with a vengeance. Is THAT what we want if Kubiak can't get it done? A freak show?

After the way I have seen the HC and GM gamble on a guy (Schaub) who started off weak and has come on strong--and not in the last game, mind you, but in the last 5 or 6 games in their totality, except the Oakland game which was actually a bad game for everyone--and having seen the trade down for Duane Brown and subsequent jackpot on Steve Slaton in the 3rd round, and seeing that Kubiak cut Richard Smith loose and is installing a d-coord who has the opposite philosophy of the guy before him. Having seen us grab some first round help for DeMeco, instead of trading down in a draft that was already a little weak to begin with. Well, that's how I define success: Does the guy in charge have the ability to change course and adjust, or does he keep doing the same thing over and over? I think I've seen Kubiak admit that he couldn't help Carr (instead of trying to be prideful and make him fit somehow). I've seen him refuse to buy the hype of Reggie Bush. I've seen him go out and grab Alex Gibbs and force this team to face the music and be a better running team for a change. There's been lots of success that doesn't always show as soon as we'd like it.

Success is not being the Detroit Lions. Success is not being Kyle Orton. The ultimate success would be Super Bowl. There's a lot of gray area between the Lions and a Super Bowl team.