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Jake Coker

Texian said:
If Rick foolishy extended Schaub's contract it is because McNair told him to do so.....now back to Jake Coker.
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What do you think of Coker?

I think he has franchise QB level ability, but doesn't have the experience I like. The fact he came up big under the bright lights is huge. I cant wait to see how he does in the NC game. I would consider him at 22 if I were BOB. How do you compare Coker to Wentz since you've seen way more of Wentz than I have?

You are really good at finding underrated QB's early in the draft process. I enjoy your thoughts on these type of guys and start looking at them more closely. Thanks
 
steelbtexan said:
What do you think of Coker?

I think he has franchise QB level ability, but doesn't have the experience I like. The fact he came up big under the bright lights is huge. I cant wait to see how he does in the NC game. I would consider him at 22 if I were BOB. How do you compare Coker to Wentz since you've seen way more of Wentz than I have?

You are really good at finding underrated QB's early in the draft process. I enjoy your thoughts on these type of guys and start looking at them more closely. Thanks
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Jimbo Fisher said they were spitting hairs when they decided on Winston over Coker in 2013 (Coker hurt in Spring practice). Winston went on to win Nat'l Championship as a starting QB (Coker a win away), the Heisman Trophy and was the #1 pick in the 2014 draft. Coker is a 5 yr guy so he has ideal size and maturity you look for. Coker graduated early so he's smart. Coker almost leads BAMA back to almost beat Ole Miss game after coming in with BAMA 20 points down. Coker makes two throws late in TENN game that allows BAMA to win the game. Coker doesn't make those throws BAMA is not in Nat'l Championship game. On a BIG stage (Cotton Bowl, Semifinals) against top D Coker has an outstanding game. His BAMA teammates say they see the Cotton Bowl performance everyday in practice and the only reason we haven't seen it more is because of Henry's success. Exceptional athlete, was Mobile County 5A Basketball Player of the Year in High School, avg 17.4 PPG as a Junior.

Wentz vs Coker, both are comparable, both are 5 yr guys which is ideal, both have prototypical size, I see both as Franchise QBs, both come from a Pro Set Offense, both can make all NFL throws, both have strong arms, both well coached. Wentz has won a Nat'l Championship, Coker is a game away, both have shown ability to beat good teams, both have convincing 4th Quarter comebacks and game winning drives, both are Captains. Both are first in last out, team first guys. As good an athlete as Coker is, Wentz may be the better athlete (runs better). Wentz tends to fumble more. Right now this early in the process I have Coker as #1A and Wentz is #1B. Coker gets the nod due to competition, less fumbles....No doubt, you can bet, there will be quite a few who will disagree and that's fine, wouldn't be much discussion if nobody did but come draft time IMHO I think Coker and Wentz could be the first two QBs drafted and not surprised if both go in Top 10.....subject to change and to be continued...

Questions still remain about Wentz's wrist.....
 
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steelbtexan said:
He would still be the best QB on the Texans roster today.

I see Coker as a late rd 1 early rd 2 guy. I'm just not sure if he can be the next Stafford or the next Henne.
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I really don't think that's likely. He's started less than 15 games in his career. He's really not all that different from Savage. Good physical skill set but didn't get much game experience in college.
 
WolverineFan said:
I really don't think that's likely. He's started less than 15 games in his career. He's really not all that different from Savage. Good physical skill set but didn't get much game experience in college.
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You're probably right, but Coker has done more on a bigger stage than Savage ever has.

To me Coker is rated there. To the NFL 4th is probably about right.
 
infantrycak said:
So where do you think he will go?
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Hard to really nail it down before National Championship, Senior Bowl, and Combine but I'd say 4th round. Has the potential to move up but most teams will probably view him as a project, which limits his draft ceiling.
 
steelbtexan said:
I dont know if Kubiak relied on Schaub's recovery so much, or Rick foolishly extended Schaub which forced Schaub down Kubiak's throat.
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Either way, he had no plan for post Schaub... and he's the one that continued to play him
 
JB said:
Either way, he had no plan for post Schaub... and he's the one that continued to play him
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I've said that too, but thinking back I'm just not sure kubiak was thinking that the post schaub era was here yet or even getting close.

Seemed like the Texans have been in catch up mode regarding young talent in the draft for a long time now, so that is probably another reason why they thought they couldn't "waste" a high or mid round pick on a real developmental qb for the future.

Case was a good pick up though IMO. But, I'm sorry to say, I think he was neutered here a bit when at the time it made sense for the organization to give him full control. But kubiak thought inserting Schaub when case struggled was the best way for him to win games.
 
JB said:
Either way, he had no plan for post Schaub... and he's the one that continued to play him
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xtruroyaltyx said:
I've said that too, but thinking back I'm just not sure kubiak was thinking that the post schaub era was here yet or even getting close.

Seemed like the Texans have been in catch up mode regarding young talent in the draft for a long time now, so that is probably another reason why they thought they couldn't "waste" a high or mid round pick on a real developmental qb for the future.

Case was a good pick up though IMO. But, I'm sorry to say, I think he was neutered here a bit when at the time it made sense for the organization to give him full control. But kubiak thought inserting Schaub when case struggled was the best way for him to win games.
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I've always contended that Head Coaches with Final say on the 53 man roster have tunnel vision, they plan & prepare only for the season at hand. Often operate with a band aid mentality. Rarely if ever do these type of Head Coaches have a 3-4 year vision or plan.
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
I've said that too, but thinking back I'm just not sure kubiak was thinking that the post schaub era was here yet or even getting close.
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This is going to be unsourced insider information so take it for what you will. Kubiak wanted to see how Schaub would do but was concerned enough he did not want him extended. The extension was on Smith.

Now this is pure speculation, I think he liked Keenum and so they whiffed on the 2012 draft.
 
Texian said:
I've always contended that Head Coaches with Final say on the 53 man roster have tunnel vision, they plan & prepare only for the season at hand. Often operate with a band aid mentality. Rarely if ever do these type of Head Coaches have a 3-4 year vision or plan.
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I think you are naive if you don't think basically every HC has final say on the 53.
 
Texian said:
MCCarthy, Harbaugh, Quinn, Garrett, Kubiak and Bradley are just a few who would agree with my naivete
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Throwing names down means jack. If you think they can't bounce a player they don't like your head is in a dark smelly place. There might be a couple protected players but for the most part every HC controls the 53.
 
Texian said:
Jimbo Fisher said they were spitting hairs when they decided on Winston over Coker in 2013 (Coker hurt in Spring practice). Winston went on to win Nat'l Championship as a starting QB (Coker a win away), the Heisman Trophy and was the #1 pick in the 2014 draft. Coker is a 5 yr guy so he has ideal size and maturity you look for. Coker graduated early so he's smart. Coker almost leads BAMA back to almost beat Ole Miss game after coming in with BAMA 20 points down. Coker makes two throws late in TENN game that allows BAMA to win the game. Coker doesn't make those throws BAMA is not in Nat'l Championship game. On a BIG stage (Cotton Bowl, Semifinals) against top D Coker has an outstanding game. His BAMA teammates say they see the Cotton Bowl performance everyday in practice and the only reason we haven't seen it more is because of Henry's success. Exceptional athlete, was Mobile County 5A Basketball Player of the Year in High School, avg 17.4 PPG as a Junior.

Wentz vs Coker, both are comparable, both are 5 yr guys which is ideal, both have prototypical size, I see both as Franchise QBs, both come from a Pro Set Offense, both can make all NFL throws, both have strong arms, both well coached. Wentz has won a Nat'l Championship, Coker is a game away, both have shown ability to beat good teams, both have convincing 4th Quarter comebacks and game winning drives, both are Captains. Both are first in last out, team first guys. As good an athlete as Coker is, Wentz may be the better athlete (runs better). Wentz tends to fumble more. Right now this early in the process I have Coker as #1A and Wentz is #1B. Coker gets the nod due to competition, less fumbles....No doubt, you can bet, there will be quite a few who will disagree and that's fine, wouldn't be much discussion if nobody did but come draft time IMHO I think Coker and Wentz could be the first two QBs drafted and not surprised if both go in Top 10.....subject to change and to be continued...

Questions still remain about Wentz's wrist.....
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Outside of the Jimbo Fisher comments, everything you just said would apply to Kevin Hogan ad well. He plays in a better conference than Wentz & has more starts than Coker.

& while Coker had displayed a hotter arm than McCarron, I don't think he's done anything McCarron hadn't.
 
infantrycak said:
Throwing names down means jack. If you think they can't bounce a player they don't like your head is in a dark smelly place. There might be a couple protected players but for the most part every HC controls the 53.
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yada yada yada or like Nick Saban says, TALK TO THE BOTTLE.

thunderkyss said:
Outside of the Jimbo Fisher comments, everything you just said would apply to Kevin Hogan ad well. He plays in a better conference than Wentz & has more starts than Coker.

& while Coker had displayed a hotter arm than McCarron, I don't think he's done anything McCarron hadn't.
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He didn't ask me about Hogan, if he had, I would of said Hogan is Bryce Petty. And yes we know you love you some McCarron and McCarron had Amari Cooper......
 
Marshall said:
~How foolish to do what your boss tells you to do (if it's legal and moral).~
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Yep, I believe McNair woke up one morning, went into the office and told Rick to extend Schaub. Especially knowing that the McNair's are hands off owners.
 
steelbtexan said:
Yep, I believe McNair woke up one morning, went into the office and told Rick to extend Schaub. Especially knowing that the McNair's are hands off owners.
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There is zero information that McNair was involved in that decision. Might have been but we have no idea. We know Smith did it against Kubiak's wishes.
 
infantrycak said:
There is zero information that McNair was involved in that decision. Might have been but we have no idea.
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Other than the fact that every major decision regarding the Houston Texans finds it way across Bob McNair's desk for approval or disapproval. You must be suffering from a cranial rectum inversion if you don't know this.
 
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Texian said:
Other than the fact that every major decision regarding the Houston Texans finds it way across Bob McNair's desk for approval or disapproval. You must be suffering from a cranial rectum inversion if you don't know this.
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You don't know that either. It's just you asserting supposition as fact.

And you say it as if it is unusual. I am sure all 32 owners maintain some sort of veto review on major moves.

That is very different from McNair directing Smith to extend Schaub.
 
infantrycak said:
You don't know that either. It's just you asserting supposition as fact.

And you say it as if it is unusual. I am sure all 32 owners maintain some sort of veto review on major moves.

That is very different from McNair directing Smith to extend Schaub.
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^^^^THIS IS A GRADE 4 RECTAL CRANIAL INVERSION^^^^
 
JB said:
So you're saying most owners don't review major moves? That would be pretty stupid on their part wouldn't it?
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I'm saying that I don't think you're as ornery, ill tempered, cranky, mean, grouchy, grumpy, nasty, obstinate, vicious, contemptible, irritable, rotten and unfriendly as Cak....now back to our regularly scheduled programming, Jake Coker.
 
Texian said:
I'm saying that I don't think you're as ornery, ill tempered, cranky, mean, grouchy, grumpy, nasty, obstinate, vicious, contemptible, irritable, rotten and unfriendly as Cak....now back to our regularly scheduled programming, Jake Coker.
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hahahaha... but you don't know me :D
 
Texian said:
I'm saying that I don't think you're as ornery, ill tempered, cranky, mean, grouchy, grumpy, nasty, obstinate, vicious, contemptible, irritable, rotten and unfriendly as Cak....now back to our regularly scheduled programming, Jake Coker.
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Aaah, a warm fuzzy.
 
Texian said:
How many of those guys are playing for a Natl Championship? On a serious note and serious question, are you bitter because he transferred?
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No, not at all. I actually thought it was the right move at the time. When Winston left, I thought back and thought that he had made a poor choice. Now, I'm back to thinking he made the right choice. It's probably more of a wash for him, he gets good coaching either way and he would have had equal opportunity to play.

I just don't understand the fascination. I like him as a person alot, he has great tools as well, but he's so inexperienced and it goes back to high school; he was not primarily a passing QB in HS. You are big on QBs with more starts having a much higher chance, Coker doesn't fit that mold at all. So, what's the fascination?
 
TexansSeminole said:
No, not at all. I actually thought it was the right move at the time. When Winston left, I thought back and thought that he had made a poor choice. Now, I'm back to thinking he made the right choice. It's probably more of a wash for him, he gets good coaching either way and he would have had equal opportunity to play.

I just don't understand the fascination. I like him as a person alot, he has great tools as well, but he's so inexperienced and it goes back to high school; he was not primarily a passing QB in HS. You are big on QBs with more starts having a much higher chance, Coker doesn't fit that mold at all. So, what's the fascination?
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He's a five year guy so he's been in football practicing and preparing for 5 years so he does have a lot of experience per se. When he did he get his chance he delivered. I am also BIG on guys who can deliver 4th quarter comebacks and game winning drives and Coker has shown he can do both well. And on one of the biggest stages in college football he performed darn near perfectly when his team team needed him to. The Ole Miss and Tenn games were real eye openers for me. Now I have to post an important note about Carson Wentz....

If I were a big Fla St fan, booster, alumni I would've been a miffed, angry, not at all happy and bitter with Coker transferring to Bama.
 
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Texian said:
He's a five year guy so he's been in football practicing and preparing for 5 years, when he did he get his chance he delivered. I am also BIG on guys who can deliver 4th quarter comebacks and game winning drives and COker has shown he can do both well. ANd on one of the biggest stages in college football he performed darn near perfectly when his team team needed him to. now I have to post an important note about Carson Wentz....
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I don't fault you for liking the player, I was simply asking why he's so high on your list when you have repeatedly made comments about how important it is for a guy to have a certain amount of starts.
 
TexansSeminole said:
I don't fault you for liking the player, I was simply asking why he's so high on your list when you have repeatedly made comments about how important it is for a guy to have a certain amount of starts.
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Understood and as I explained 5 years in a system with Fisher and Saban as coaches makes up for some of those missed starts. Brady redshirted then sat his first two years behind Griese and had to fight off Henson, thought about transferring but ended up being a 5 year guy. So there are always exceptions. I guess I see Coker as an exception. I like 5 year guys over 3rd year Juniors. The math just seems to add up on Coker for me.
 
Texian said:
Understood and as I explained 5 years in a system with Fisher and Saban as coaches makes up for some of those missed starts. Brady redshirted then sat his first two years behind Griese and had to fight off Henson, thought about transferring but ended up being a 5 year guy. So there are always exceptions. I guess I see Coker as an exception. I like 5 year guys over 3rd year Juniors. The math just seems to add up on Coker.
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I think he has a pretty solid foundation, but I'm skeptical. I don't think he's ready to play in the NFL and I would be wary about drafting him high. Maybe in the later rounds, but don't you think that the 1st and 2nd round talk is a bit much? The guy threw only 19 TDs this year, threw alot of short passes (not unusual for a college QB) on top of his limited experience.
 
TexansSeminole said:
I think he has a pretty solid foundation, but I'm skeptical. I don't think he's ready to play in the NFL and I would be wary about drafting him high. Maybe in the later rounds, but don't you think that the 1st and 2nd round talk is a bit much? The guy threw only 19 TDs this year, threw alot of short passes (not unusual for a college QB) on top of his limited experience.
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All true but not many QBs have had the games Coker did against good teams Ole Miss, Tenn and Mich St and I guess that is why you I are seeing it differently. He hasn't lost a game he's started and has played against some very good football teams. Conventional Wisdom is certainly on your side. I'm also going off what Fisher said, they were splitting hairs when choosing Winston as the starter and Winston went on to win the Heisman, Natl Championship and be the #1 pick in the draft. And they were splitting hairs. Like I said earlier, the math for Coker lines up fairly strongly in his favor for me.

Part of that math is Coker is doing what he's doing without Amari Cooper and with a very young (true freshman) WR corp.
 
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Texian said:
I'm also going off what Fisher said, they were splitting hairs when choosing Winston as the starter and Winston went on to win the Heisman, Natl Championship and be the #1 pick in the draft. And they were splitting hairs. Like I said earlier, the math for Coker lines up fairly strongly in his favor for me.
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They were splitting hairs, & Jimbo went with the guy that said, "**** her in the *****" & stole crab legs from Publix...

:thinking:
 
Texian said:
If I were a big Fla St fan, booster, alumni I would've been a miffed, angry, not at all happy and bitter with Coker transferring to Bama.
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We (FSU) get alot of good players, man. Some 5 star guys don't pan out, some get kicked off the team, some do well, some become stars, some transfer away and do nothing, some transfer away and do well. I don't sweat individual players. When you recruit at the level Jimbo has, the fans understand that some are going to be good and some aren't. That's just part of being a fan of a team that gets into the situation that FSU is in right now. You focus more on coaching as a fan because you know you have great players, regardless of if that 4 or 5 star guy transferred away. Same situation with Coker, I really don't feel any kind of way about that move. We got a national championship with that crop of guys, I can't complain.
 
TexansSeminole said:
I think he has a pretty solid foundation, but I'm skeptical. I don't think he's ready to play in the NFL and I would be wary about drafting him high. Maybe in the later rounds, but don't you think that the 1st and 2nd round talk is a bit much? The guy threw only 19 TDs this year, threw alot of short passes (not unusual for a college QB) on top of his limited experience.
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averaged 7.5 with 67% accuracy, I'd take that in NFL especially with number of passes he made.
 
TexansSeminole said:
We (FSU) get alot of good players, man. Some 5 star guys don't pan out, some get kicked off the team, some do well, some become stars, some transfer away and do nothing, some transfer away and do well. I don't sweat individual players. When you recruit at the level Jimbo has, the fans understand that some are going to be good and some aren't. That's just part of being a fan of a team that gets into the situation that FSU is in right now. You focus more on coaching as a fan because you know you have great players, regardless of if that 4 or 5 star guy transferred away. Same situation with Coker, I really don't feel any kind of way about that move. We got a national championship with that crop of guys, I can't complain.
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No argument from me about Fisher's recruiting abilities, I am one Fisher's biggest fans. (McNair should hire Jimbo rickytic) However, a strong argument could be made that if Coker were FSU starting QB this year, FSU could be playing for the Natl Championship and not Clemson.
 
Texian said:
No argument from me about Fisher's recruiting abilities, I am one Fisher's biggest fans. (McNair should hire Jimbo rickytic) However, a strong argument could be made that if Coker were FSU starting QB this year, FSU could be playing for the Natl Championship and not Clemson.
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It's possible but it's not an automatic, that's for sure. The team had a few issues this year that hurt them in a lot of games. QB play was only one of them. The scheming on defense was another.
 
TexansSeminole said:
It's possible but it's not an automatic, that's for sure. The team had a few issues this year that hurt them in a lot of games. QB play was only one of them. The scheming on defense was another.
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Another equally strong argument is Alabama would not be playing for the Natl Championship if Coker had not been their QB.
 
There are a few things I don't love about Coker. He gets happy feet fairly quick and really doesn't climb the pocket that much. He has a bad habit of drifting backwards. I also don't love his accuracy deep. I need to see more of him, but I wouldn't be happy with Coker.
 
Can't believe people have a decent grade on this guy. He was a huge reason that Alabama was struggling early. He was probably close to getting replaced. They may have slimmed down and simplified the offense for him so he has played better.
 
panamamyers said:
Can't believe people have a decent grade on this guy. He was a huge reason that Alabama was struggling early. He was probably close to getting replaced. They may have slimmed down and simplified the offense for him so he has played better.
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Well they do run a ton of screens and push passes. An insane amount actually, if you consider it in the context of how little they throw the ball. I would actually bet that Alabama runs a higher percentage of passes behind the line of scrimmage than most of these spread teams that are well known for it.

This last game was the first one this season where I graded him positively as far as a NFL prospect. But it was a big game.
 
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