Wish to make a one time donation? Make it here.

JaDeveon Clowney

Status
Not open for further replies.

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
At this point in his rehab should there be any signs to be encouraged or dissuaded by? Or should he still be taking it easy & not show any signs one way or the other?
At this early point in time, Smith and Co should just put a lid on their projections/predictions, and stop communicating with Miss Cleo in Federal Pen. Until Clowney hits the field in full game situations, we are unlikely to know much of anything of his short-term, let alone long-term future. The ability to walk without a limp or even run straight ahead full speed will add very little to prediction value.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
At this early point in time, Smith and Co should just put a lid on their projections/predictions, and stop communicating with Miss Cleo in Federal Pen. Until Clowney hits the field in full game situations, we are unlikely to know much of anything of his short-term, let alone long-term future. The ability to walk without a limp or even run straight ahead full speed will add very little to prediction value.
want to bet that every step will be scrutinized?
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
They're making the situation worse for everyone, especially Clowney.
Just like they did last year by implying after his initial knee surgery that he was not willing to play through pain and swelling.......and that his rehab efforts after his second surgery (microfracture et al) would be the main reason for his ability to return to form or not from the surgery.
 

dalemurphy

Hall of Fame
Just like they did last year by implying after his initial knee surgery that he was not willing to play through pain and swelling.......and that his rehab efforts after his second surgery (microfracture et al) would be the main reason for his ability to return to form or not from the surgery.
They are stuck with him for the next 3 years. Getting him on the field and contributing is the only way to extract value out of the pick and his contract. They have probably already erased Clowney from their long term plans and are unconcerned about grinding that knee into dust, causing chronic pain and severe degenerative problems 5 years down the road. The Texans want him playing on it or retiring, not cashing checks on IR through the next 3 years.

At least, that is how I read the situation.
 

Marshall

Not pretty, but ALIVE!
want to bet that every step will be scrutinized?
Will it? Unfortunately, yes.

Should it? Absolutely not ... at this time.

But I'm of the uneducated opinion that he won't really get into the lineup for more than mop up duty before the bye. I suspect he will be behind the rest of the team the whole season.

But next year we'll see glimpses of why we drafted him and make the decision about retaining him that much harder as his value jumps just as his contract needs to be renegotiated.

But I'm an optimist at heart.
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
I hold the same opinion that I've held since before the Texans made the dumbest pick in their franchise history with him, and that is that Clowney is a bum with a lot talent. That talent doesn't matter much when the player has his mentality though.
 

Thorn

Dirty Old Man
Mentally, I've already written off Clowney. I don't think he'll ever amount to much more than an injured, above average player whose potential will never be seen.
 

Blake

MMQB
I hold the same opinion that I've held since before the Texans made the dumbest pick in their franchise history with him, and that is that Clowney is a bum with a lot talent. That talent doesn't matter much when the player has his mentality though.
Mentally, I've already written off Clowney. I don't think he'll ever amount to much more than an injured, above average player whose potential will never be seen.
I guess most people will find it easy to take this stance. I prefer to give him a chance to get back on he field before I close the book on his career.
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
They are stuck with him for the next 3 years. Getting him on the field and contributing is the only way to extract value out of the pick and his contract. They have probably already erased Clowney from their long term plans and are unconcerned about grinding that knee into dust, causing chronic pain and severe degenerative problems 5 years down the road. The Texans want him playing on it or retiring, not cashing checks on IR through the next 3 years.

At least, that is how I read the situation.
You would think, but had they addressed his situation differently last year, he could have been 100% healthy & ready to go for 2015. As it is, they may be setting up the same situation where he may have complications & be in & out of the lineup, eventually ending up on IR for 2015.
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Mentally, I've already written off Clowney. I don't think he'll ever amount to much more than an injured, above average player whose potential will never be seen.
I haven't gone that far. I believe between Clowney & Mercilus, we'll have a decent rush LB. If Mercilus doesn't step up in 2015 & Clowney is a no go in 2015, then I'll be looking to address the position with a little more urgency.
 

IDEXAN

Hall of Fame
I haven't gone that far. I believe between Clowney & Mercilus, we'll have a decent rush LB. If Mercilus doesn't step up in 2015 & Clowney is a no go in 2015, then I'll be looking to address the position with a little more urgency.
Don't pay any attention to Mr Sunshine, he's always like that, you know all gloom and doom and he'll try to drag you down to if he can. That's just his style, maybe he'll surprise us one day and cheer up, but I'm not holding my breathe.
 

Thorn

Dirty Old Man
Don't pay any attention to Mr Sunshine, he's always like that, you know all gloom and doom and he'll try to drag you down to if he can. That's just his style, maybe he'll surprise us one day and cheer up, but I'm not holding my breathe.


:lol:


Christ. One day off my sig list and you're taking shots already.

In any case, Mr. Sunshine says he'd love to see Clowney live up to his potential, he just don't give it a chance in hell is all.
 

IDEXAN

Hall of Fame
:lol:


Christ. One day off my sig list and you're taking shots already.

In any case, Mr. Sunshine says he'd love to see Clowney live up to his potential, he just don't give it a chance in hell is all.
I was on your sig list, so that's an honor ? But I don't have the opportunity to feel honored because you don't tell I'm honored to be on the list until you inform me you've booted me off of the list. It is an honor to be on your sig list, right Mr Sunshine ?
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
I was on your sig list, so that's an honor ? But I don't have the opportunity to feel honored because you don't tell I'm honored to be on the list until you inform me you've booted me off of the list. It is an honor to be on your sig list, right Mr Sunshine ?
You really, really don't want to be on his "other" list.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
that's just the company line.

probably put out there to throw teams off the scent that we will take yet another edge rusher in the first round
:)

You give Rick way too much credit.

When has he said anything like this over the past 8 yrs.

He's just doing what a good Yes man does when he takes time out of his busy day which often includes kissing Cal's a**.
 

Texian

Hall of Fame
Don't pay any attention to Mr Sunshine, he's always like that, you know all gloom and doom and he'll try to drag you down to if he can. That's just his style, maybe he'll surprise us one day and cheer up, but I'm not holding my breathe.
13 years is more than enough time to establish a pattern of behavior. What we have here is, Bad Owners Syndrome, see Rankin Smith and John Mecom Jr for more details. The Texans only success came ONLY after Peyton Manning and Jeff Fisher vacated the division. The one common denominator over the last 13 years is Bob McNair and his collection of coaches and players. Any style that is short of liking the Texans front office blowing smoke up your hiney is directly attributed to a .423 winning percentage over the last 13 years. :)
 

infantrycak

Admin & Mod
13 years is more than enough time to establish a pattern of behavior. What we have here is, Bad Owners Syndrome, see Rankin Smith and John Mecom Jr for more details. The Texans only success came ONLY after Peyton Manning and Jeff Fisher vacated the division. The one common denominator over the last 13 years is Bob McNair and his collection of coaches and players. Any style that is short of liking the Texans front office blowing smoke up your hiney is directly attributed to a .423 winning percentage over the last 13 years. :)
Historical numbers like that (actually .452) are meaningless to the current state of the team. The Texans could win the next 32 games and we'd be at .475 - another number you could plug into your post and would have no reflection on the team being fielded. A number which would reflect the current team would be winning percentage for the current regime which is now .562 and in the hypothetical would be .854.
 

Hemlock

Practice Squad
13 years is more than enough time to establish a pattern of behavior. What we have here is, Bad Owners Syndrome, see Rankin Smith and John Mecom Jr for more details. The Texans only success came ONLY after Peyton Manning and Jeff Fisher vacated the division. The one common denominator over the last 13 years is Bob McNair and his collection of coaches and players. Any style that is short of liking the Texans front office blowing smoke up your hiney is directly attributed to a .423 winning percentage over the last 13 years. :)
http://www.forbes.com/nfl-valuations/

Still top 5 in value according to Forbes, despite a perpetually mediocre product.

That's brilliant ownership.
 

Texian

Hall of Fame
http://www.forbes.com/nfl-valuations/

Still top 5 in value according to Forbes, despite a perpetually mediocre product.

That's brilliant ownership.
Sorry, when I said collection of coaches and players I thought it was clear I was discussing the On the Field Product and not any financial aspects. Apparently not. When I discuss "Bad Owners Syndrome" I am specially talking about the "On Field Product" only.

Would you feel better if I said, Bob McNair has a very successful losing franchise?
 
Last edited:

ObsiWan

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
13 years is more than enough time to establish a pattern of behavior. What we have here is, Bad Owners Syndrome, see Rankin Smith and John Mecom Jr for more details. The Texans only success came ONLY after Peyton Manning and Jeff Fisher vacated the division. The one common denominator over the last 13 years is Bob McNair and his collection of coaches and players. Any style that is short of liking the Texans front office blowing smoke up your hiney is directly attributed to a .423 winning percentage over the last 13 years. :)
well.... there's nothing tying you to this team but you.
The McNairs sure aren't going anywhere.
 

Texian

Hall of Fame
Historical numbers like that (actually .452) are meaningless to the current state of the team. The Texans could win the next 32 games and we'd be at .475 - another number you could plug into your post and would have no reflection on the team being fielded. A number which would reflect the current team would be winning percentage for the current regime which is now .562 and in the hypothetical would be .854.
or commonly known as completely disregarding any pattern of behavior and having more smoke blown up your hiney. :)
 

Marcus

Ruthless pragmatist
Historical numbers like that (actually .452) are meaningless to the current state of the team. The Texans could win the next 32 games and we'd be at .475 - another number you could plug into your post and would have no reflection on the team being fielded. A number which would reflect the current team would be winning percentage for the current regime which is now .562 and in the hypothetical would be .854.
There are enough numbers and stats that anyone could cherry pick in order to validate his or her own particular narrative. That's why I've never been much of a numbers and stats guy.

We all know what Texian's narrative is, so any numbers and stats he presents, should all be taken into context. That said, your numbers and stats were a good counterpoint.
 

Texian

Hall of Fame
well.... there's nothing tying you to this team but you.
The McNairs sure aren't going anywhere.
Brilliant....according to you any dissenting opinions are not welcome and should not be heard......I love playing this game Snarky....it still doesn't change the fact McNair has a losing record and likely he always will.
 

Texian

Hall of Fame
There are enough numbers and stats that anyone could cherry pick in order to validate his or her own particular narrative. That's why I've never been much of a numbers and stats guy.

We all know what Texian's narrative is, so any numbers and stats he presents, should all be taken into context. That said, your numbers and stats were a good counterpoint.
or more commonly known as more EXCUSES or more .423 gibberish.
 
Last edited:

Thorn

Dirty Old Man
Brilliant....according to you any dissenting opinions are not welcome and should not be heard......I love playing this game Snarky....it still doesn't change the fact McNair has a losing record and likely he always will.

:thinking:


You know, I get you and IDEXAN mixed up all the time. I wonder why that is?
 

ObsiWan

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
Brilliant....according to you any dissenting opinions are not welcome and should not be heard......I love playing this game Snarky....it still doesn't change the fact McNair has a losing record and likely he always will.
Again, I'm having difficulty communicating with you.
I'm not saying there should be no dissenting opinions, far from it. Hell, I'm pissed we're not farther along in identifying a franchise QB than we are. It's just that the operation of this team seems to frustrate you so much. Why continue to subject yourself to it is all I'm asking. No snark intended...

Question: If we went to the SB over the next two years we'd technically still have a regular season losing record. Would you still focus on the losing record thing or be pleased we built a team that was in back-to-back Super Bowls?
 

Marshall

Not pretty, but ALIVE!
There are enough numbers and stats that anyone could cherry pick in order to validate his or her own particular narrative. That's why I've never been much of a numbers and stats guy.

We all know what Texian's narrative is, so any numbers and stats he presents, should all be taken into context. That said, your numbers and stats were a good counterpoint.
I am a stats guy and the problem isn't that they fail, but that they fail to be understood for what they are and are not. Stats are like any tool, they can be used by those who know how and misused and abused by those who have their own agenda
 

DBCooper

Outlaw
Contributor's Club
Again, I'm having difficulty communicating with you.
I'm not saying there should be no dissenting opinions, far from it. Hell, I'm pissed we're not farther along in identifying a franchise QB than we are. It's just that the operation of this team seems to frustrate you so much. Why continue to subject yourself to it is all I'm asking. No snark intended...

Question: If we went to the SB over the next two years we'd technically still have a regular season losing record. Would you still focus on the losing record thing or be pleased we built a team that was in back-to-back Super Bowls?
You and I would be celebrating.
 

Texian

Hall of Fame
Again, I'm having difficulty communicating with you.
I'm not saying there should be no dissenting opinions, far from it. Hell, I'm pissed we're not farther along in identifying a franchise QB than we are. It's just that the operation of this team seems to frustrate you so much. Why continue to subject yourself to it is all I'm asking. No snark intended...

Question: If we went to the SB over the next two years we'd technically still have a regular season losing record. Would you still focus on the losing record thing or be pleased we built a team that was in back-to-back Super Bowls?
Sounds like you're more frustrated with me than I am with Bob McNair.

Answer: Sounds like Wishful Thinking. I have seen nothing to suggest that the Texans will go to the Super Bowl in the next two years. When Texans make changes that can actually get them to the Super Bowl, I will then focus on those changes. However I don't expect those changes to happen anytime soon. I can only foresee that it will be business as usual. Until then I will refrain from cheering mediocrity. The respect or lack of that I am giving them today has been earned.
 

ObsiWan

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
Sounds like you're more frustrated with me than I am with Bob McNair.

Answer: Sounds like Wishful Thinking. I have seen nothing to suggest that the Texans will go to the Super Bowl in the next two years. When Texans make changes that can actually get them to the Super Bowl, I will then focus on those changes. However I don't expect those changes to happen anytime soon. I can only foresee that it will be business as usual. Until then I will refrain from cheering mediocrity. The respect or lack of that I am giving them today has been earned.
Not frustrated. Confused.
And I didn't ask about likelihood.
 

Texian

Hall of Fame
Not frustrated. Confused.
And I didn't ask about likelihood.
To be more succinct, for the last 3-4 years I've complained of salary cap mismanagement, poor draft management, inadequate personnel and scouting departments, owner meddling, failure to recognize time to rebuild, tunnel vision, band aid mentality, lack of long term planning, only focus is the season at hand. When I see the Texans take positive steps towards making changes to the above then I too will make changes in my attitude regardless of record or likelihood. Until then I will stand firm in my beliefs that the reason for the Texans .423 winning percentage over the last 13 years is for the reasons listed above. Those are my reasons for the .423. The best I'm getting for a rebuttal is a bunch of excuses for why the Texans are really a .829 team only just masquerading as a bunch of losers.
 
Last edited:

ObsiWan

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
To be more succinct, for the last 3-4 years I've complained of salary cap mismanagement, poor draft management, inadequate personnel and scouting departments, owner interference, failure to recognize time to rebuild, tunnel vision, band aid mentality, lack of long term planning, only focus is the season at hand. When I see the Texans take positive steps towards making changes to the above then I too will make changes in my attitude regardless of record or likelihood. Until then I will stand firm in my beliefs that the reason for the Texans .423 winning percentage over the last 13 years is for the reasons listed above.
Fair enough.
I see yesterday's pick as planning ahead for possibly losing J-Jo and maybe Bouye and Morris who are RFAs. The apparent change in strategy seems positive to me. One cannot erase/correct all past errors with one pick.
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
To be more succinct, for the last 3-4 years I've complained of salary cap mismanagement, poor draft management, inadequate personnel and scouting departments, owner interference, failure to recognize time to rebuild, tunnel vision, band aid mentality, lack of long term planning, only focus is the season at hand. When I see the Texans take positive steps towards making changes to the above then I too will make changes in my attitude regardless of record or likelihood. Until then I will stand firm in my beliefs that the reason for the Texans .423 winning percentage over the last 13 years is for the reasons listed above. Those are my reasons for the .423. The best I'm getting for a rebuttal is a bunch of excuses for why the Texans are really a .829 team only just masquerading as a bunch of losers.
Mostly understandable, but if you only use a static view, only looking at the one stat, they'll never be more than mediocre. Even if they make the changes you prescribed & win 13 games a season for the next three seasons, their overall record would still say mediocre.

On the other hand, if you look at the most recent years record versus the overall, or the last three year average versus the overall, it shows progress. Not worst to first, but improvement none the less.

You can't keep punishing McNair for bad decisions he's made in the past, Casserly & Capers put us in a hole that took a while to dig out. Bob gave them 4 years which is fair, maybe even standard. He made a change & his product improved. Four years later when deciding to continue on the Kubiak train, he decided to stick it out & for all we know he probably regrets that decision since the eventually parted ways anyway.

Since 2002 there has been several changes to the way the Texans handle business. From the scouting to player acquisition to contract negotiations & player retention... All changed at least three times.

We've gone from drafting one CB in the first round in 10 years to drafting two in the first round in 4... We've gone from a team with no pro bowlers to a team with All-pro players year in & year out. We've gone from being a "should win" team when other teams reviewed their schedule to a "might win" team.

There's been change. Maybe not the change you or I would like to see, definitely not as fast as we'd like to have seen it... But there's been change.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
I am a stats guy and the problem isn't that they fail, but that they fail to be understood for what they are and are not. Stats are like any tool, they can be used by those who know how and misused and abused by those who have their own agenda
The only stat that matters is W-L.

Of course some would say the gameday experience is what counts, but they aren't true football fans and that's who the McNair's are marketing too.
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
The only stat that matters is W-L.

Of course some would say the gameday experience is what counts, but they aren't true football fans and that's who the McNair's are marketing too.
The "true fan" card?

:toropalm:
 
Last edited:

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
The only stat that matters is W-L.

Of course some would say the gameday experience is what counts, but they aren't true football fans and that's who the McNair's are marketing too.
why do you continue to torment yourself over a team you've come to hate so much?
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
why do you continue to torment yourself over a team you've come to hate so much?
LOL, Cant debate the facts, divert and change the topic. Classic Psychology. I am about all things. I just want a winning team on the field like we all do and don't think it's wrong to question the team management or their motives. In fact if fans don't do this I doubt much will truly change. I could turn the question you asked me back on you but I wont.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.


Top