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JaDeveon Clowney

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Nitrofish

Let The Big Fish Eat!
You're looking at PowerBall odds for Clowney to ever be the player he was drafted to be. And that’s not Ms. Cleo, it's Doc.
Pretty sure I was not addressing you Cak, but thanks for adding your two cents. I respect Doc, and value his opinion. But even Doc himself will tell you he does not know. He has not examined Clowney, and does not know the size of the lesions, etc. The fact of the matter is nobody knows. Not you, not Doc, and certainly not Thorn. Hell not even his own surgeon knows what will happen, but all you guys do? Please...

There are plenty of players who have come back from this surgery, some that are still playing today. Off the top of my head is Marques Colston, who had not one, but two Microfracture Surgeries. Reggie Bush was also another who made it back from said surgery. These are just a few, and they were years before Clowney's experimental surgery where different tactics are being used.

If you chose to be negative, so be it. Does not mean those who are positive are wrong, or delusional. Just tired of all the negativity from you guys on the subject. I think at this point, and at his age, he will return to make a positive impact at a high level for the team. The length of time he will be able to contribute at a high level is another matter that is open for debate.
 

infantrycak

Admin & Mod
Pretty sure I was not addressing you Cak, but thanks for adding your two cents.
Well if it disabused you of the notion threads are closed discussions, you're welcome.

If you chose to be negative, so be it. Does not mean those who are positive are wrong, or delusional. Just tired of all the negativity from you guys on the subject.
Recognizing long odds is not a prediction or negative. It's not negative to acknowledge you have a 1 in a million shot when buying a lottery ticket. But you'd be a fool to plan on the 1.

Reggie Bust, seriously? How many probowls has the greatest RB since Gayle Sayers made?

The length of time he will be able to contribute at a high level is another matter that is open for debate.
The length of time he can play is part of whether he pans out as the player he was drafted to be.
 

IDEXAN

Hall of Fame
Microfracture is a common and relatively uncomplicated procedure. Doctors drill tiny holes into the bone plate, which allows blood and bone marrow to leak out. That forms a blood clot full of cartilage-building stem cells. The intent is for that to form a cushion between the bones. One man with a lot of experience in performing microfracture procedures is Nicholas DiNubile, the Philadelphia 76ers former team doctor and a spokesman for the American Academy of Orthopaedic Surgeons. He equates the procedure to trying to fill a pothole. The question is how big was the "pothole" in Clowney's knee -- a bigger pothole makes recovery more difficult.
That first period after surgery is when cells are forming, DiNubile said, and a patient's leg is often attached to a machine that slowly rocks the knee back and forth. At about eight weeks, there is enough of a gel between the bones to gently put weight on it, but a patient cannot run on it. Slowly the gel gets firmer. But the process can take up to two years to complete.

"The real issue is how much regeneration happens," said DiNubile, who has read up on Clowney's case but has not examined him. "To even require microfracture is a bad thing at a young age. It means you've damaged the joint cushion down to the bone. Even with the best results, it does not fill in with a normal cushion. It fills in with hybrid material -- cartilage cells and scar tissue."



The good news is that if Clowney recovers well, there is no reason why he can't return to the player the Texans hoped he would be when they drafted him.
"If all goes perfectly and he gets a nice fill in there -- it's almost like people who are bald and are using something ... some get nothing, some get peach fuzz and some get everything -- if he gets a nice fill and he rehabs well, he should be able to do what he's done before," DiNubile said. "If he gets a partial fill, then the knee is going to be cranky and it's going to act like a knee that has a problem. As far as speed and burst, he should be able to get that. The real question is, how long does it hold up?"
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000483366/article/jadeveon-clowneys-rehab-what-can-texans-expect-in-2015
*****
My apologies if this has already been posed in the Clowney thread. If not, might want to check might want to check it out,it's pretty good. And it offers hope.
 

Nitrofish

Let The Big Fish Eat!
Well if it disabused you of the notion threads are closed discussions, you're welcome.



Recognizing long odds is not a prediction or negative. It's not negative to acknowledge you have a 1 in a million shot when buying a lottery ticket. But you'd be a fool to plan on the 1.

Reggie Bust, seriously? How many probowls has the greatest RB since Gayle Sayers made?



The length of time he can play is part of whether he pans out as the player he was drafted to be.
You are not simply recognizing long odds, most of you are speaking very matter of fact, so don't give me that nonsense.

Pro bowls? You are kidding right? The guy has played as well as most others in the league and did not lose his ability to cut, or speed. He has recovered nicely from the injury. As has Colston. Fact is Bush was never much in my eyes, but to suggest his career ended because of MFS is crazy.

I think Texans fans have just become conditioned to assume the worst. I choose not to give in to that mind set. Nothing is for certain yet, so there is no reason to speak as if it is a forgone conclusion.

How he pans out as a player remains to be seen. But assuming because he was dealt a bad hand to start off with means he is finished, or as you said has "long odds" is a bit premature. As I said. You protect yourself by assuming the worst. I choose to believe Clowney will be fine given the proper time to heal.
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
You are not simply recognizing long odds, most of you are speaking very matter of fact, so don't give me that nonsense.
.

I think Texans fans have just become conditioned to assume the worst. I choose not to give in to that mind set. Nothing is for certain yet, so there is no reason to speak as if it is a forgone conclusion.
I agree with you for the most part, but the Texans have had an unusually high case of injured players not being who they "should" have been, so in my mind it's understandable for Texans fans to feel this way; Bosselli, Hollings, Joppru, DD...

Then we just lost Brennan Williams, supposedly from his struggles with microfracture (he's a Jaguar now).

Still, like you said... we don't know the specifics of his injury, the where & how much cartilage was missing is a big factor in how he's going to recover & none of us, to my knowledge not even CnD, know those specifics.

Still again, I don't think it's going to matter. Whitney Mercilus allows us to draft BPA in the first & look for that outside rusher later, if at all. I know a lot of people have already given up on Mercilus, but I think he benefitted a lot from RAC & Vrabel last season & I'm looking forward to a big jump out of him in 2015.

He'll also allow us to take our time bringing Clowney back.
 

Number19

Hall of Fame
...I choose to believe Clowney will be fine given the proper time to heal.
...He'll also allow us to take our time bringing Clowney back.
I believe what I've read here is that hopes are that Clowney will be seeing on field time by the start of the season - 8 months or so after surgery. Here's what bothers me:
...At about eight weeks, there is enough of a gel between the bones to gently put weight on it, but a patient cannot run on it. Slowly the gel gets firmer. But the process can take up to two years to complete...
 

dalemurphy

Hall of Fame
Well if it disabused you of the notion threads are closed discussions, you're welcome.



Recognizing long odds is not a prediction or negative. It's not negative to acknowledge you have a 1 in a million shot when buying a lottery ticket. But you'd be a fool to plan on the 1.

Reggie Bust, seriously? How many probowls has the greatest RB since Gayle Sayers made?



The length of time he can play is part of whether he pans out as the player he was drafted to be.
The Texans may still get their investment out of Clowney. However, that investment ends in 3-4 years. What has almost assuredly been lost is the potential of extended greatness... If Clowney is determined and committed, then I think the odds are good that he can still be explosive into his mid 20s while managing a diminished knee.
 

Nitrofish

Let The Big Fish Eat!

infantrycak

Admin & Mod

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
Colston had a small patellar repair which has a shorter recovery time and better prognosis. Link

Anyway. We'll see how it turns out. Everyone hopes for the best.
well looks like you were a big buzzkill again... Mr BoB Bummer

 

badboy

Hall of Fame
until more negative facts are known, I am hoping Clowney improves proportionately 2015 & 16 and his last contract year '17 plays very well. He may or not be what many had hoped but Cushing 2013 was $4.5 m against cap which is about same for Clowney this season. Not comparing player's injuries but I was not the only one who thought Cushing was through; glad I was wrong that.
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I believe what I've read here is that hopes are that Clowney will be seeing on field time by the start of the season - 8 months or so after surgery. Here's what bothers me:
Eh.. The same way it took Demeco 2 years before anyone should have evaluated his performance to decide he didn't belong on the team... Same way it's takig Cushing a second year to get back to himself. I'm sure there are some that will be upset Clowney won't be taking 80% of the snaps, then dog the Texans for rushing the process.

I expect the approach with Clowney to be very similar to how they treated Cushing in 2014
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
Colston had a small patellar repair which has a shorter recovery time and better prognosis. Link

Anyway. We'll see how it turns out. Everyone hopes for the best.
Thanks. I was going to post to this effect. I brought this up the last time Colston was brought into the conversation. What Colston was dealing with in both times he needed the surgery was chondromalacia of the patella (knee cap), i.e., breakdown of the cartilage on the backside of the knee cap secondary to trauma. Patellar microfracture patients can actually weight bear as tolerated almost immediately post op because the patella is non weight bearing and doesn't really come in contact with the rest of the knee joint as long as the knee is not bent. Therefore, these patients are kept in straight leg braces during the 6 week acute healing period. Microfracture surgeries typically performed on the medial or lateral femoral condyles is different such that even when the knee is straight it is still in contact with part of the tibia during weight bearing.

Furthermore, despite the very much better prognosis, if you look at Colson's receptions and yds per game, they have progressively decreased every year. Last year's precipitous drop off in performance did not go unnoticed.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
Although there can always be exceptions, previous knee surgery on the same side is a factor lessening expectations following microfracture surgery. But a major concern in dealing with his ultimate prognosis is that this surgery was preceded specifically by partial lateral meniscectomy. Despite some saying that not performing a formal repair and addressing all pathology at the first surgery, allowing him to return to play would not extend his meniscus or cartilage damage, this is just not a valid statement.

I've posted on the implications of the Clowney's partial meniscectomy in the past. Now I've found this piece from the Steadman Clinic (where microfracture surgery as we know it originated) that highlights my concerns that go beyond the microfracture surgery.

Lateral Meniscus Tear

Description of a Lateral Meniscus Tear

The lateral meniscus is an essential shock absorber on the outside (lateral) aspect of the knee joint. It absorbs about 70% of the shock of the lateral compartment. Lateral meniscal tears are not as common as medial meniscus tears. This is because the lateral meniscus is more mobile and not secured as much to the lateral tibial plateau as the medial meniscus is to the medial tibial plateau. [thus requires more trauma to the knee to induce] Thus, when there is a lateral knee injury such as a lateral meniscus tear, it is very important to try to repair the tear, because if not repaired and is trimmed out there will be an increase to the load on the lateral compartment, which ultimately leads to [loss of articular cartilage=] osteoarthritis.

Symptoms of a lateral meniscus tear:
• Pain
• Swelling and stiffness, increases gradually from hours to days after injury
• Catching or locking
• Instability
• An inability to straighten the knee


Treatment of a Lateral Meniscus Tear

Due to the added shock absorbing capacity of the lateral meniscus, it is essential to attempt to repair lateral meniscus tears if possible. We believe that trying to stimulate an improved healing environment through the use of bone marrow elements, platelet rich plasma (PRP), and a large number inside-out meniscal repair sutures, can lead to improved ability to heal these tears, especially in younger patients.

Post-Op

The treatment for patients who undergo a partial lateral meniscectomy is to initiate physical therapy on the first day after surgery. A treatment regimen working on reactivation of the quadriceps muscles, regaining of full knee and patellar mobility, and a quick resolution of knee swelling is emphasized. In general, we recommend that patients who have a minimal amount of lateral meniscus trimmed out hold back on any impact activities [running is considered a high impact activity] until a minimum of 6 weeks after surgery. [he returned to practice at ~ 5 weeks] In patients who have a significant amount of meniscus resected, it is often recommended to avoid significant impact activities due to the higher risk of the development of [loss of articular cartilage] osteoarthritis in these patients with this activity.

When a torn lateral meniscus needs to be resected, we strongly recommend that these patients be followed very closely. Patients need to report back to their physician if they have any pain or swelling with activities, because these are the signs of arthritis and may indicate further progression of [articular cartilage loss] arthritic changes. If this is present, further treatment to include activity modification, low impact exercising, unloader braces, injections, or possible meniscal transplantation may be indicated.

It is almost inevitable that when one has a significant amount of the lateral meniscus resected that they will develop further arthritic changes over time. Because not everybody is the same, these changes can develop within a few weeks up to over a decade. We have observed that this often can develop rapidly in younger patients. Thus, one of the important things is to recognize that if one has any pain or swelling, they should follow up to make sure they are not developing any joint space narrowing or bone spurs, which would indicate that the lateral compartment articular cartilage is wearing out.
link
 

banned1976

American
Furthermore, despite the very much better prognosis, if you look at Colson's receptions and yds per game, they have progressively decreased every year. Last year's precipitous drop off in performance did not go unnoticed.
Has nothing to do with him getting older, does it? And this "precipitous drop off" you speak of, he had 943 receiving yards in 2013 on 75 receptions to 902 yards on only 59 receptions in 2014.

As a doctor, I think you understand as we age the number of air sacs (alveoli) and capillaries in the lungs decreases. The lungs cannot keep up with the demand for oxygen during exercise. Less air is taken in with each breath, and the lungs do not absorb as much oxygen.

Naturally, Colton's production, like athletes before him has decreased somewhat . I think it has more to do with the aging process than the MFS's. But whatever, you're the resident expert.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
Has nothing to do with him getting older, does it? And this "precipitous drop off" you speak of, he had 943 receiving yards in 2013 on 75 receptions to 902 yards on only 59 receptions in 2014.

Colson is in a gunslinger offense. Every receiver gets numbers. There's much more to a WR's performance than total yds. Last year, he was rated as a terrible -9 by ProFootballFocus (worst of all the Saints receivers).

As a doctor, I think you understand as we age the number of air sacs (alveoli) and capillaries in the lungs decreases. The lungs cannot keep up with the demand for oxygen during exercise. Less air is taken in with each breath, and the lungs do not absorb as much oxygen.

Since I know you are not being condescending, I guess I just need take the hint and go back to school. Somehow I must have missed that lesson.

Naturally, Colton's production, like athletes before him has decreased somewhat . I think it has more to do with the aging process than the MFS's. But whatever, you're the resident expert.
In context of the Clowney discussion, the point was that Colson's microfracture surgery should not have in itself been a reason for drop off.
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Has nothing to do with him getting older, does it? And this "precipitous drop off" you speak of, he had 943 receiving yards in 2013 on 75 receptions to 902 yards on only 59 receptions in 2014.

As a doctor, I think you understand as we age the number of air sacs (alveoli) and capillaries in the lungs decreases. The lungs cannot keep up with the demand for oxygen during exercise. Less air is taken in with each breath, and the lungs do not absorb as much oxygen.

Naturally, Colton's production, like athletes before him has decreased somewhat . I think it has more to do with the aging process than the MFS's. But whatever, you're the resident expert.
12 ypc vs 15 ypc is that really an age related drop off?
 

Nitrofish

Let The Big Fish Eat!
Thanks. I was going to post to this effect. I brought this up the last time Colston was brought into the conversation. What Colston was dealing with in both times he needed the surgery was chondromalacia of the patella (knee cap), i.e., breakdown of the cartilage on the backside of the knee cap secondary to trauma. Patellar microfracture patients can actually weight bear as tolerated almost immediately post op because the patella is non weight bearing and doesn't really come in contact with the rest of the knee joint as long as the knee is not bent. Therefore, these patients are kept in straight leg braces during the 6 week acute healing period. Microfracture surgeries typically performed on the medial or lateral femoral condyles is different such that even when the knee is straight it is still in contact with part of the tibia during weight bearing.

Furthermore, despite the very much better prognosis, if you look at Colson's receptions and yds per game, they have progressively decreased every year. Last year's precipitous drop off in performance did not go unnoticed.
The guy has had 3 or 4 knee surgeries. So I am sure a performance drop off is to be expected. Having said that, the Saints drafted Jimmy Graham in 2010 which took a significant number of receptions away from Colston. Graham had 99 receptions in 2011 the year after Colston's 2nd MFS. In 2014, not only was Graham taking a lot of receptions away (85). Colston also had to share receptions with guys like Kenny Stills (63), and Brandin Cooks (53). Even with all of that competition (203) for receptions, he still had 59 with 902 yards and that does not even take into consideration all the balls thrown to RB's. So suggesting his drop off in production had more to do with his surgeries, than distribution of passes is misleading. The fact that Colston is still with the same team, let alone even in the NFL proves he is still a viable target. Even after 3 knee surgeries, 2 of which were MFS.

The same kind of prognosis was written about Colston after his first, and then second MFS, but as you can see, Colston continues to produce, and his first MFS was way back in 2009, followed by another MFS in 2010. But look at his numbers in those years.

2009: 70 Rec, 1,074 Yds, 10 TD
2010: 84 Rec, 1,023 Yds, 07 TD
2011: 80 Rec, 1,143 Yds, 08 TD
2012: 83 Rec, 1,154 Yds, 10 TD
2013: 75 Rec. 943 Yds, 05 TD
2014: 59 Rec, 902 Yds, 05 TD

Colston's production went up the 3 years following his first surgery, not down as you suggest. It's only been the last two seasons his production has fallen off some, and as I have demonstrated above, that is more likely because of new weapons in the system rather than any physical limitations linked to his surgeries.

So to say with any certainty that Clowney will not recover, or will never be the player he was drafted to be is a bit too extreme for me. While it is possible he may never be that player, it is not power ball odds as some suggest. If given enough time to recover, IMO, Clowney will have 3 or 4 years of solid production assuming he does not re-injure the knee, or suffer some other injury.

Ultimately, the guy may be made of glass, and it will be constant injuries of all sorts that keep him out of action, not this MFS. Until I see evidence of that, I am going to remain positive about his recovery, and future contribution to the team, whatever that is worth.

"The good news is that if Clowney recovers well, there is no reason why he can't return to the player the Texans hoped he would be when they drafted him." link
"If all goes perfectly and he gets a nice fill in there -- it's almost like people who are bald and are using something ... some get nothing, some get peach fuzz and some get everything -- if he gets a nice fill and he rehabs well, he should be able to do what he's done before," -Dr. Nicholas DiNubile link
"That said, professional athletes have returned well from the surgery. Amar'e Stoudemire had it when he was 22 and returned to make an All-NBA First Team and five All-Star games. Stoudemire's lesion was reported to be about one centimeter. A lesion greater than two centimeters are more problematic. Clowney and the Texans have not indicated how big his lesion is." link
"His career could be shortened by something like this if it's a large enough lesion," DiNubile said. "But they make up for a lot of it. They are so fit and so strong. They can do more than the average patient. A lot of them have a really good pain threshold." -Dr. Nicholas DiNubile link
I'm not a surgeon...

 

infantrycak

Admin & Mod
So to say with any certainty that Clowney will not recover, or will never be the player he was drafted to be is a bit too extreme for me. While it is possible he may never be that player, it is not power ball odds as some suggest. If given enough time to recover, IMO, Clowney will have 3 or 4 years of solid production assuming he does not re-injure the knee, or suffer some other injury.
You're changing standards. Solid player and what he was drafted to be are nowhere close to the same thing. He was drafted to be the league's best pass rushing OLB, not just a solid player. Brooks Reed and Whitney Mercilus are solid players.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
You're changing standards. Solid player and what he was drafted to be are nowhere close to the same thing. He was drafted to be the league's best pass rushing OLB, not just a solid player. Brooks Reed and Whitney Mercilus are solid players.
Agreed, but injury took that from him.

I would settle for a better version of Mercilus.

A KJ Wright type player.
 

IDEXAN

Hall of Fame
My biggest concern about JD is not about whether or not he successfully completes his rehab from his MFS and regains much of his athleticism and makes it back on the field of play, but how long he can remain on the field before he reinjures his bad knee ?
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
The guy has had 3 or 4 knee surgeries. So I am sure a performance drop off is to be expected. Having said that, the Saints drafted Jimmy Graham in 2010 which took a significant number of receptions away from Colston. Graham had 99 receptions in 2011 the year after Colston's 2nd MFS. In 2014, not only was Graham taking a lot of receptions away (85). Colston also had to share receptions with guys like Kenny Stills (63), and Brandin Cooks (53). Even with all of that competition (203) for receptions, he still had 59 with 902 yards and that does not even take into consideration all the balls thrown to RB's. So suggesting his drop off in production had more to do with his surgeries, than distribution of passes is misleading. The fact that Colston is still with the same team, let alone even in the NFL proves he is still a viable target. Even after 3 knee surgeries, 2 of which were MFS.

The same kind of prognosis was written about Colston after his first, and then second MFS, but as you can see, Colston continues to produce, and his first MFS was way back in 2009, followed by another MFS in 2010. But look at his numbers in those years.

2009: 70 Rec, 1,074 Yds, 10 TD
2010: 84 Rec, 1,023 Yds, 07 TD
2011: 80 Rec, 1,143 Yds, 08 TD
2012: 83 Rec, 1,154 Yds, 10 TD
2013: 75 Rec. 943 Yds, 05 TD
2014: 59 Rec, 902 Yds, 05 TD

Colston's production went up the 3 years following his first surgery, not down as you suggest. It's only been the last two seasons his production has fallen off some, and as I have demonstrated above, that is more likely because of new weapons in the system rather than any physical limitations linked to his surgeries.

So to say with any certainty that Clowney will not recover, or will never be the player he was drafted to be is a bit too extreme for me. While it is possible he may never be that player, it is not power ball odds as some suggest. If given enough time to recover, IMO, Clowney will have 3 or 4 years of solid production assuming he does not re-injure the knee, or suffer some other injury.

Ultimately, the guy may be made of glass, and it will be constant injuries of all sorts that keep him out of action, not this MFS. Until I see evidence of that, I am going to remain positive about his recovery, and future contribution to the team, whatever that is worth.



I'm not a surgeon...

As you insist on comparing Clowney's knee joint microfracture to Colston's knee cap microfracture surgeries, it is obvious that you choose to ignore the main purpose of the previous postings (microfracture surgery effects......not Colston the player) and the explanation of the differences in their locations and their prognosis. Knee cap microfracture has an excellent prognosis and seldom affects the ability of the player to return to pre-injury performance. Knee joint microfracture surgery carries guarded prognosis with ability to return to pre-injury performance seldomly occuring. This does not even address there seems to be an ignoring of the postings of Clowney's lateral meniscus damage/surgery and its well-documented negative effects on a knee, especially in cases that require microfracture surgery.

Anything is possible, and as a fan I will without a doubt be pulling for Clowney to return to long-term maximum productivity. But as a surgeon I will remain guarded as to what we may see in actuality.

Lastly, I found Dr. Dinubile's quote interesting.:

"If all goes perfectly and he gets a nice fill in there -- it's almost like people who are bald and are using something ... some get nothing, some get peach fuzz and some get everything -- if he gets a nice fill and he rehabs well, he should be able to do what he's done before," -Dr. Nicholas DiNubile
Just as in his Rogaine hair treatment analogy, after all the initial enthusiasm with this medication, all controlled studies have shown only ~18% of patients get significant regrowth of hair to make the treatment worthwhile.........and that is only if there are relatively small areas of baldness to begin with........and only if there is a willingness to continue the treatment life-long. Studies looking at microfracture cartilage regrowth demonstrate that it virtually never results in a smooth, even thickness, totally non-skip coverage "(lack of new "cartilage" deposited in some bone-exposed areas is more the rule).

So yes, "If everything goes perfectly,........................ he should be able to do what he's done before."
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
The guy has had 3 or 4 knee surgeries. So I am sure a performance drop off is to be expected. Having said that, the Saints drafted Jimmy Graham in 2010 which took a significant number of receptions away from Colston. Graham had 99 receptions in 2011 the year after Colston's 2nd MFS. In 2014, not only was Graham taking a lot of receptions away (85). Colston also had to share receptions with guys like Kenny Stills (63), and Brandin Cooks (53). Even with all of that competition (203) for receptions, he still had 59 with 902 yards and that does not even take into consideration all the balls thrown to RB's. So suggesting his drop off in production had more to do with his surgeries, than distribution of passes is misleading. The fact that Colston is still with the same team, let alone even in the NFL proves he is still a viable target. Even after 3 knee surgeries, 2 of which were MFS.

The same kind of prognosis was written about Colston after his first, and then second MFS, but as you can see, Colston continues to produce, and his first MFS was way back in 2009, followed by another MFS in 2010. But look at his numbers in those years.

2009: 70 Rec, 1,074 Yds, 10 TD
2010: 84 Rec, 1,023 Yds, 07 TD
2011: 80 Rec, 1,143 Yds, 08 TD
2012: 83 Rec, 1,154 Yds, 10 TD
2013: 75 Rec. 943 Yds, 05 TD
2014: 59 Rec, 902 Yds, 05 TD

Colston's production went up the 3 years following his first surgery, not down as you suggest. It's only been the last two seasons his production has fallen off some, and as I have demonstrated above, that is more likely because of new weapons in the system rather than any physical limitations linked to his surgeries.

So to say with any certainty that Clowney will not recover, or will never be the player he was drafted to be is a bit too extreme for me. While it is possible he may never be that player, it is not power ball odds as some suggest. If given enough time to recover, IMO, Clowney will have 3 or 4 years of solid production assuming he does not re-injure the knee, or suffer some other injury.

Ultimately, the guy may be made of glass, and it will be constant injuries of all sorts that keep him out of action, not this MFS. Until I see evidence of that, I am going to remain positive about his recovery, and future contribution to the team, whatever that is worth.









I'm not a surgeon...

It's disingenuous to say that Colston's numbers haven't fallen off. If Brees throws the ball 500 times a yr somebody has to catch them and with Colston being Brees favorite target even more than Graham before the surgery, I bet Colston got a greater number of TARGETS than any other WR on the team and probably more than Graham who missed a couple of games.

As far as being a doctor goes you are just like the rest of us hoping Clowney will be back 100%. Doctors tend to look at things like past history of players that have had similar surgeries and the % of players that have made it back at what level the player plays at and how long said injury shortens the players career.

After reading the Steadman piece, the Randolph piece, seeing Stoudamire after injury etc.... I'm not optimistic that Clowney will ever be what I thought he could be, but he still can be an above avg player for 3-5 yrs. Which means that Smith should never think about signing Clowney to a 2nd contract.
 

IDEXAN

Hall of Fame
So I was at my usual place at 24/7 the other day on a stationary bike and peddling away while talking to a friend next to me who was moving at a good clip and I knew he had bad knees and asked him how they were that day ?
This guy is late middle age and he told me had had just invested 500 $s in a stem-cell injection into one of his knees. I dunno, would that be a possibility for someone like Cloney with his situation ? I suppose not since havn't heard anything like that as an option, but thought I'd ask anyway ?
 

infantrycak

Admin & Mod
It's disingenuous to say that Colston's numbers haven't fallen off. If Brees throws the ball 500 times a yr somebody has to catch them and with Colston being Brees favorite target even more than Graham before the surgery, I bet Colston got a greater number of TARGETS than any other WR on the team and probably more than Graham who missed a couple of games.
Colston targets:
2009 - 107
2010 - 131
2011 - 107
2012 - 130
2013 - 111
2014 - 100

Graham targets:
2010 - 44
2011 - 149
2012 - 135
2013 - 142
2014 - 125

Graham was his favorite but no drop off of targeting Colston.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
So I was at my usual place at 24/7 the other day on a stationary bike and peddling away while talking to a friend next to me who was moving at a good clip and I knew he had bad knees and asked him how they were that day ?
This guy is late middle age and he told me had had just invested 500 $s in a stem-cell injection into one of his knees. I dunno, would that be a possibility for someone like Cloney with his situation ? I suppose not since havn't heard anything like that as an option, but thought I'd ask anyway ?
Their have been researchers that have taken special blood components containing stem cells and injected them into the knee joint (either without microfracture drilling or as an adjunct following microfracture surgery) so far with very mixed and with very limited success.

Keep in mind that in the classic microfracture surgery, the blood and marrow that migrates from within the bone to the surface of the joint through the drill holes are actually functioning as stem cells.
 

IDEXAN

Hall of Fame
Their have been researchers that have taken special blood components containing stem cells and injected them into the knee joint (either without microfracture drilling or as an adjunct following microfracture surgery) so far with very mixed and with very limited success.

Keep in mind that in the classic microfracture surgery, the blood and marrow that migrates from within the bone to the surface of the joint through the drill holes are actually functioning as stem cells.
No Doc, I had no clue. You could have told me it was peanutbutter & jelley and
I'd have been, OK right Doc I got it.
But seriously thanks for the response and info, I appreciate it.
 

barrett

All Pro
Keep in mind that in the classic microfracture surgery, the blood and marrow that migrates from within the bone to the surface of the joint through the drill holes are actually functioning as stem cells.
You're working hard, doc. Hang in there. Don't let 'em get you down. It's that time of the season and we've got the hottest sports medicine drama in the country on your rounds. Don't forget to pace yourself for his return to the field!

-B
 

otisbean

Veteran
Contributor's Club
While reading another site discussing Florida's pro day I noticed this:

In a positive sign, linebacker Neiron Ball timed 4.52 to 4.59 seconds in the 40. Considering he's not even six months removed from micro-fracture surgery, that's a significant accomplishment for Ball, who'll return to Indianapolis for the combine medical recheck at the middle of this month.
Read more at http://walterfootball.com/proday.php#ZiWqpUJZuyGiD0qO.99

Hopefully Clowney can make a similar recovery, finger crossed!
 

IDEXAN

Hall of Fame
Good find on this Ball guy Otisbean. And it turns out this kid also had
meniscus surgery. His situation is sounding more and more like Clowneys,
so maybe there's additional reason for hope bout JDs recover ? But watch out for Mr. Sunshine to come around and to try to crash our hopes.
***
http://m.campussports.net/tag/neiron-ball/
The Gators, however, will be without two key linebackers – Neiron Ball and Jarrad Davis, both of whom were injured during Saturday’s 23-20 loss to South Carolina and have since undergone surgery.

“Disappointed that Jarrad Davis had meniscus surgery this morning. He will be out for the season,” Muschamp said. “Neiron Ball had a meniscus surgery as well. He had to have a microfracture repair, so he’s going to be non-weight bearing for six weeks.”
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
While reading another site discussing Florida's pro day I noticed this:

In a positive sign, linebacker Neiron Ball timed 4.52 to 4.59 seconds in the 40. Considering he's not even six months removed from micro-fracture surgery, that's a significant accomplishment for Ball, who'll return to Indianapolis for the combine medical recheck at the middle of this month.
Read more at http://walterfootball.com/proday.php#ZiWqpUJZuyGiD0qO.99

Hopefully Clowney can make a similar recovery, finger crossed!
I don't believe that's the problem with microfracture. With enough rest, I'm sure Clowney can explode like he used to. But the next day, he'll be sore, knee may swell, & it might be three to four weeks before he could do it again.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
While reading another site discussing Florida's pro day I noticed this:

In a positive sign, linebacker Neiron Ball timed 4.52 to 4.59 seconds in the 40. Considering he's not even six months removed from micro-fracture surgery, that's a significant accomplishment for Ball, who'll return to Indianapolis for the combine medical recheck at the middle of this month.
Read more at http://walterfootball.com/proday.php#ZiWqpUJZuyGiD0qO.99

Hopefully Clowney can make a similar recovery, finger crossed!
Good find on this Ball guy Otisbean. And it turns out this kid also had
meniscus surgery. His situation is sounding more and more like Clowneys,
so maybe there's additional reason for hope bout JDs recover ? But watch out for Mr. Sunshine to come around and to try to crash our hopes.
***
http://m.campussports.net/tag/neiron-ball/
The Gators, however, will be without two key linebackers – Neiron Ball and Jarrad Davis, both of whom were injured during Saturday’s 23-20 loss to South Carolina and have since undergone surgery.

“Disappointed that Jarrad Davis had meniscus surgery this morning. He will be out for the season,” Muschamp said. “Neiron Ball had a meniscus surgery as well. He had to have a microfracture repair, so he’s going to be non-weight bearing for six weeks.”
It’s always good to hear of early positive outcomes. However, I am sure in your experience (otisbean), you understand that meniscus and microfracture surgeries vary in prognosis depending on many factors. Ball’s microfracture lesion has not been characterized in any way. However, from what I have been able to find out, he suffered a medial meniscus tear with excision of the small piece, which makes sense since most meniscus tears are of the medial meniscus. This latter factor in itself can grossly separate his prognosis from that of Clowney’s. Partial medial meniscectomies even when involving larger areas leave surprisingly little morbidity in the form of knee function, and in particular knee stability, which is so important to the protection of the newly forming/formed “cartilage” following any microfracture surgery. The lateral meniscus carries 80% of the lateral load of the knee, the medial meniscus close to half that load of the medial knee. Therefore any removal of the lateral meniscus presents significant concern as relates to the stability of the knee joint and the ultimate (especially longer term) outcome of a microfracture surgery.

Only time will acurately answer all the questions concerning Clowney's future.
 

Brisco_County

Texans worthy
I think you guys should just relax. Charlie Casserly chose Clowney to be the obvious year 2 breakout player of 2015. Obviously.

The obvious choice is Houston's Jadeveon Clowney. Due to health issues, the No. 1 overall pick suited up for just four games, recording seven tackles and zero sacks. If he can get his body right, Clowney should be a double-digit sack guy in 2015.
Link
 

IDEXAN

Hall of Fame
I think you guys should just relax. Charlie Casserly chose Clowney to be the obvious year 2 breakout player of 2015. Obviously.



Link
The obvious choice is Houston's Jadeveon Clowney. Due to health issues, the No. 1 overall pick suited up for just four games, recording seven tackles and zero sacks. If he can get his body right, Clowney should be a double-digit sack guy in 2015.
What say you Mr. Sunshine ? You got nothing do you ? Long-live Jadeveon Clowney !
 

ObsiWan

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
The obvious choice is Houston's Jadeveon Clowney. Due to health issues, the No. 1 overall pick suited up for just four games, recording seven tackles and zero sacks. If he can get his body right, Clowney should be a double-digit sack guy in 2015.
What say you Mr. Sunshine ? You got nothing do you ? Long-live Jadeveon Clowney !
you believe in the words of Casserly?
has it gotten that bad??
:mcnugget:
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
The kid was a freak athlete for his size & i think people are getting a little carried away with this MFS thing...on both sides of the argument. IMO he had so much athletcism, he could lose a bit of it and still be damn good. He'd likely have to change his approach, but in a weird way, its good that this happened to him early in his career rather than in the middle. I hope it forces him to really lock in on developing more of a technique and a bevy of moves instead of overwhelming guys with his speed and athleticism like he did so often in college.

Sure, he'll likely never be able to become that LT/Derek Thomas terror of pass rushing olb's he could've potentially become..the one we thought we drafted....but the potential to become a Tamba Hali, CM III or even James Harrison-esque pass rushing olb...that's still certainly on the table imo & obviously, i don't need to tell any of you that that's still pretty damn good and definite upgrade to our pass rush. Hell with him paired with JJ, you'll probably get a few flashes of that super athletic freak every now and then. If he can get back to about 85-90 of what he was as an athlete, there's still enough there for him to be a very very good pass rusher for us..
 

PapaL

Loose Screw
The kid was a freak athlete for his size & i think people are getting a little carried away with this MFS thing...on both sides of the argument. IMO he had so much athletcism, he could lose a bit of it and still be damn good. He'd likely have to change his approach, but in a weird way, its good that this happened to him early in his career rather than in the middle. I hope it forces him to really lock in on developing more of a technique and a bevy of moves instead of overwhelming guys with his speed and athleticism like he did so often in college.



Sure, he'll likely never be able to become that LT/Derek Thomas terror of pass rushing olb's he could've potentially become..the one we thought we drafted....but the potential to become a Tamba Hali, CM III or even James Harrison-esque pass rushing olb...that's still certainly on the table imo & obviously, i don't need to tell any of you that that's still pretty damn good and definite upgrade to our pass rush. Hell with him paired with JJ, you'll probably get a few flashes of that super athletic freak every now and then. If he can get back to about 85-90 of what he was as an athlete, there's still enough there for him to be a very very good pass rusher for us..

To me it means that for the first time in his life he won't be the most gifted athlete on the field. He's going to have to work hard to be the best. No better place for him to be than lined up next to JJ Watt and learning what putting in work really means. Time will tell...
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
The other potential ancillary benefit from this is maybe this year away from actually being on the field and playing has reaffirmed his love of the game; or at the least sparked something in him that he didn't really know was there for the game..
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
...
John McClain retweeted
Brian T. Smith @ChronBrianSmith · 3h 3 hours ago

#Texans GM Smith said he continues to be "encouraged" by Jadeveon Clowney's rehab. Expects him to be a major contributor to team this year.
 
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