So who's accountable for taking a step back here?
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"Is Obrien Really An NFL Caliber Head Coach"??
- Thread starter Phoenix
- Start date
So who's accountable for taking a step back here?
Imo smith
I'm pretty sure one of them simply messed up. That's my problem. That's the kind of thing I expected the coaches to have fixed by now. New players... blah, blah, blah... they've been here since OTAs.
Texian
Hall of Fame
^^^BOLD^^^^
I wonder if many of those balls thrown in the dirt are just balls thrown away on purpose to avoid a turnover or a sack while some others are out of frustration when the receivers screw up .... run the wrong routes ?
For those who think injuries to the OL & Foster are the problem , that busted up Texans OL has allowed just two sacks in the last two games. The QB's have been given time to make plays. The RB's have picked up chunks when given the opportunity .... despite Foster being out.
In other words .... I got nuttin.
For those who think injuries to the OL & Foster are the problem , that busted up Texans OL has allowed just two sacks in the last two games. The QB's have been given time to make plays. The RB's have picked up chunks when given the opportunity .... despite Foster being out.
In other words .... I got nuttin.
Not all players are created equally mentally. I do agree in that I would have liked to see that stuff all worked out and we play mistakes free, but stuff happens. I knew we weren't going to make the playoffs as soon as Foster went down and Brown sat out. Like I said, I am just waiting to see how the D plays after that loss and to see how Mallet develops. We all knew Fitz and Hoyer were just stopgaps.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
I'm beginning to wonder about the philosophy that O'Brien brought to the Texans......."We will game plan differently [uniquely] for each team and each game." This instead of trying to approach each game in a similar manner/scheme to challenge the opposition to beat OUR scheme. Our players evidently have difficulties now with even the basics that would be involved in single scheme repetitions. How can we expect any semblance of success when we expect THEM to change their schemes, with each player having to basically learn anew each game on both sides of the line, without ever gaining the confidence which focused and exhaustive repetition brings?
Bulls on Parade
2017 Astros: Earn It!
What did Bill O'Brien mean in his press conference yesterday when he said numerous times, "I have to coach better." He says the same thing after all of our losses. How much better can he coach and if he coaches better will that lead to more wins?
So what are our options?
We can go through these "growing pains" & become some facsimile of what they've got going on in New England. Where slow receivers like a Wes Welker, Julian Edleman, & Danny Amendola wreck havok on opposing defenses.... or we can dumb it down & never get good at anything.
It looks bad now... looked really bad yesterday. But what if we're just two qtrs away from that light bulb coming on?
I mean it's up to OB to determine if we're close, or if we're as far away as that asswhup'n made it look.
That's one thing I want to see from O'Brien. Is he going to stay the course, or is he going to quit & change directions? Kinda hard for a team to "buy in" when you're always changing "the dream"
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
You an
You and others did the same thing for Kubiak who hadn't done anything either Obama fan. How soon you forget.
You and others did the same thing for Kubiak who hadn't done anything either Obama fan. How soon you forget.
Bulls on Parade
2017 Astros: Earn It!
No, especially if he's enamored with another Tom Savage type in the fourth-round. A guy who has a body made of glass and can't even stay on the field when he does get a chance to play.
We need something to change: Either we find an elite quarterback (or even just a very good one that is top 10 material) or we stop blowing so many second, third and fourth-round picks. Until then we're going to be asking the same questions and feeling frustrated.
speedfreek
All Pro
You find it funny that we gave our DC job to a guy sitting at home
on a couch getting fatter? I don't. He was out of the league for
a reason. He took our gig because there were no other offers coming..
Sumlin had the right idea at A&M. Throw some dollars at a guy
(Chevis) who could come in and immediately start making your
defense better against the opponents you are going to face.
When you are a first time pro coach coming from the college ranks
(like BoB) you had better damned well have some assistants that
know what the hell they are supposed to be doing in the __NFL__.
Neither Godsey or Vrabel fit that bill. Dumb hires. But hey, buddies
are nice to bring along with you when you get a big payday.
BoB's biggest failure is not realizing that his lack of head coaching
experience meant he had to have some real sharp X's/O's guys
to hold his hand -until he got the team he wanted to build sorted out-
He did neither, and in the process, lowered the overall talent level at
the same time.
on a couch getting fatter? I don't. He was out of the league for
a reason. He took our gig because there were no other offers coming..
Sumlin had the right idea at A&M. Throw some dollars at a guy
(Chevis) who could come in and immediately start making your
defense better against the opponents you are going to face.
When you are a first time pro coach coming from the college ranks
(like BoB) you had better damned well have some assistants that
know what the hell they are supposed to be doing in the __NFL__.
Neither Godsey or Vrabel fit that bill. Dumb hires. But hey, buddies
are nice to bring along with you when you get a big payday.
BoB's biggest failure is not realizing that his lack of head coaching
experience meant he had to have some real sharp X's/O's guys
to hold his hand -until he got the team he wanted to build sorted out-
He did neither, and in the process, lowered the overall talent level at
the same time.
Who are you speaking of specifically with "no legit" coaching experience. One thing I liked about O'Brien (there aren't many) was that he put together an experienced coaching staff. Everyone of our coaches has been in their position for some time somewhere else, except Godsey.... but he didn't bring Godsey in as OC, he was QB/TE coach or something, which he was in New England.
Speaking of which, our STs coach is a hold over from Kubiak's last team. No New England ties. Our DL coach last season was also a hold over. He decided to move on & we got Pasqualoni.... no New England ties at all. Was the OL coach in Chicago, before that, he climbed the college ranks eventually becoming the HC of the U of Connecticut (I think).
Vrabel was a LB coach at Ohio..... he's our LB coach now.
Which coaches, specifically, have no "legit" coaching experience?
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
So in this thread, you're making up QB's that we're going to draft, and now you're using logic like Alex Smith as an example? Lol!
Smith is dog ****. Reid is wasting the Chiefs time and their team isn't going anywhere until they find a QB. I'd rather be in the Texans position right now to where we at least know we don't have a QB then to have a guy like Smith teasing you every year thinking he'll finally become a big time passer or a really good QB. At least right now, the Texans know that the QB position is a hug need that needs to be addressed right away.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
Another poor example. Schaub had played well in ATL and was a hot name at the time when we acquired him.
Winning two division titles? You going to ignore the other 6 failures of seasons where the Texans were an embarrassment?
And the Kubiak hasn't done squat for the Broncos. LoL! Wade Phillips defense is winning their games the same way it did here when the Texans first won a division after 5 years of trash. The Broncos offense has been ugly as hell all season and they easily could be 1-3 right now. Their defense is the best in the league under Wade and it was stacked before last season. The Broncos have one of the best rosters I've ever seen and I said that before last year when Elway added all those players. He manages their cap extremely well.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
Apparently you think that OB is the GM. Sorry, he is not. Rick Smith is, and that's HIS JOB that he has been terrible at for 10 years now.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
I'm done with Mallet. I think we've seen what he is already. He is terrible, and one of the worst passers I've ever seen. I don't care about his strong arm. It doesn't matter for **** when you have no touch on your passes and make receivers have to adjust to the poor accuracy you have all the time. His receivers aren't helping him, but Mallet is a back up QB. He got absolutely nothing done yesterday on a team that isn't even great defensively. Hell the Cowboys put up almost 30 on the Falcons with a bunch of back up RB's, back up QB, and without Dez Bryant. We couldn't even get a FG with Mallet out there.
Mallet experiment needs to end NOW.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
When looking at the history of this franchise, you cannot help but wonder if there are inherent systematic flaws from the top down.
I think McNair is a nice guy and all - and of course insert the obvious disclaimer "from all Texans fans of how grateful we are to have a team in Houston" here - but as a fan, I often feel like I'm rooting for one of the other perennial losers in the NFL like the Redskins, Browns, Jags, Bills, etc. when I ponder the future of this franchise.
And to be honest, I'm losing interest.
Yesterday, the weather was beautiful, so I spent the entire day painting the outside of my house. I do not feel obliged to WASTE any part of my finite time on this planet on a garbage product. I DVR'ed the game, but a buddy stopped by and told me it was a waste of my time to even check it out. I deleted it when I found out that O'Brien yanked Mallett to put Hoyer in the game.
I think this HC is borderline clueless, and that's my optimistic analysis.
I feel déjà vu right now. Different names and numbers, but the same colors and logo. This has the feel of a 4-12 or 5-11 team, at best. I've seen it in Houston pro football too many times to count. Heck, we've seen it with this franchise too many times to even want to remember.
And I'm not sure anything is going to change if Bob McNair remains part of the decision making process. His history is not a football background. He's got no expertise on talent evaluation, so he should not be making any personnel decisions. But, he does. And instead of following a traditional NFL franchise model of hiring a strong GM, he's cobbled together a boardroom approach of giving his head coaches more power and limiting his GM to be little more than a contract negotiator. And with said GM being BFF with the future owner of the franchise, I honestly do not see anything fundamental changing in awhile.
As far as O'Brien, I really want the guy to succeed. I like him and his personality. But, when I look at cold, hard analysis, there is nothing on his resume that instills a sense of confidence that he came to this job ready for it. His entire pro coaching career was on a dynasty team with a HoF QB. He was not part of building it, but rather he was just another cog in their mighty machine. And I could not care any less about what he did in two seasons at Penn State. At this point, O'Brien is going to have to prove that he's a good NFL head coach. I'm not longer being blindly optimistic based on nothing but hope.
I guess it's a good think I have a lot of painting to do on my house. It looks like I'll have plenty of Sundays to accomplish the task.
Norg
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
I think hes save he did go 9-7 last year we need to see how this season plays out
u turn the ball over 4 times your not going to win a lot of games
if it goes bad then of course we should just blame rick smith FIRE HIM long over do and then maybe Fire the entire DEF coaches and ST coaches and get rid of some of these high price Scrub players tat are left overs from the Kubes Era
u turn the ball over 4 times your not going to win a lot of games
if it goes bad then of course we should just blame rick smith FIRE HIM long over do and then maybe Fire the entire DEF coaches and ST coaches and get rid of some of these high price Scrub players tat are left overs from the Kubes Era
Texian
Hall of Fame
[
Rick Smith is the assistant to the GM and the Head Coach, McNair is the real GM. Don't be confused by misleading titles. To be perfectly clear and to clear up any confusion here, O'Brien made the decision to cut Swearinger, in his contract, Smith carried out O'Brien's directive. Crennel wanted Nix, O'Brien said make it happen (it's in his contract), Rick Smith made it happen. For 10 years Rick Smith has been making sure that what McNair and the Head Coach want done, gets done! FTR Smith does not negotiate the contracts, McNair has a specific person (see Chris Olsen), to do exactly what McNair says he wants done. Any questions see organizational chart, it reads #1 Bob McNair #2 Cal McNair #3 Bill O'Brien.
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Norg
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
even if all is that true I don't want rick here anymore hes a old kubes era guy just fire him and let Obrein hire one of his buddy GM's IDK
Pendergast is saying many of the same thoughts echoed in this thread...
amazing80
Hall of Fame
Serious question, do you know how a corporate structure works? Its not one rogue guy making decisions. Its a collective group making it happen. As much as everyone has a small part in bringing in guys, Smith is the guy it lands on no matter how you try to slice it. Olsen is nothing more than a glorified accountant. Smith is the guy wheeling and dealing and setting the draft boards. He places emphasis on the type of players BoB and staff say to but ultimately the team brings in guys Smith chooses. No matter how many times you try to cook up some other theory about it, nothing will make that untrue.
here are some facts.
2007: The entire 2007 draft class is garbage, you could argue Jacoby is slightly below average. The free agent signings was the first sign of poor evaluation by Smith, when he inked a 31 year old Ahman Green to a 4 year 23 million dollar deal.
2008: Duane Brown was his best pick and only one on this team still from his first two drafts. Every single person from 2007 and 2008 besides Brown and J Jones (2007 class) are out of the league already. The most underrated move of Smiths tenure here happened this season, they went out and got Chris Myers. Everyone else is basically out of the league already.
2009: We have one guy on the team from this year, Brian Cushing. And he is basically washed up already. We had Barwin and Quin, who they let walk (poor choices by Smith). So this was his first legit draft with playmakers and he let two of them walk after their rookie deals. Way to go Smith! The only move in the off-season worth anything was signing Antonio Smith, another solid free agent signing.
2010: Another poor draft with Jackson leading the way. Graham was a late round pick that people thought had value, but is proving to be as valuable as Anthony Hill (same round year before) was. The year of Wade Smith :/
2011: JJ Watt and........Derek Newton? Brooks Reed, who again, they let walk after his rookie contract was decent. Sadly this is Smiths BEST draft. How pathetic. That off-season while everyone went after Nnamdi, Smith snuck one under the radar and nabbed Joseph and then got Manning. His best free agent class of his tenure.
2012: Some may argue this is his best draft, I think you will see the way of previous drafts soon, we hang on to a few scrubs from each draft for awhile before we let them go and they never are heard from again, its about time for this class. Brandon Brooks was the best pick (Mercilus is trash), but I will say we got solid OL depth from this class. Nothing special, but his first "average" draft. Worst free agent year? Possibly....
2013: Its been two seasons and already left with Hopkins only. Worst. Draft. In. History. The year of Ed Reed
I won't do 2014 or 2015, but they aren't looking very good. Sadly this is worse than I even thought it would be. In 6 seasons we have 9 players on this team from our drafts. Puke! Rick Smith has got to go, how some continue to defend him is beyond me.
Texian
Hall of Fame
2014 and 2015 are shaping up as two of the worst drafts, you can tell the difference in mindset and draft pattern that's because O'Brien is in charge.Serious question, do you know how a corporate structure works? YES, I was an EXECUTIVE VP in a Fortune 500 Company. I probably understand thist better than you. I also know when I look on Texans website and Executive Management is listed as 1. Bob McNair 2. Cal McNair 3. Bill O'Brien that is how the power chart flows. Its not one rogue guy making decisions. Its a collective group making it happen. As much as everyone has a small part in bringing in guys, Smith is the guy it lands on no matter how you try to slice it. Olsen is nothing more than a glorified accountant. Wrong again! Everytime a Big contract is completed all credit goes to Olson. Olson has his Masters Degree and I'm pretty sure you wouldn't know what a glorified accountant was if one slapped you upside the head. Smith is the guy wheeling and dealing and setting the draft boards. TRUE but he doesn't pick the players. Head Coaches do it's in their contract. He places emphasis on the type of players BoB and staff say to but ultimately the team brings in guys Smith chooses. No matter how many times you try to cook up some other theory about it, nothing will make that untrue. When it comes to what's true, what's untrue and proof, just because you can't find it or to lazy to look it up doesn't make it so, it just means you couldn't find it or didn't look. More often than not what you can't find is there. I don't just make stuff up, I have read it or watched it somewhere.
here are some facts.
2007: The entire 2007 draft class is garbage, you could argue Jacoby is slightly below average. The free agent signings was the first sign of poor evaluation by Smith, when he inked a 31 year old Ahman Green to a 4 year 23 million dollar deal.
2008: Duane Brown was his best pick and only one on this team still from his first two drafts. Every single person from 2007 and 2008 besides Brown and J Jones (2007 class) are out of the league already. The most underrated move of Smiths tenure here happened this season, they went out and got Chris Myers. Everyone else is basically out of the league already. Duane Brown was a Alex Gibbs pick, see 2008 archive draft videos, a draft articles. Smith did advise Kubiak/Gibbs they could trade back and still get Brown
2009: We have one guy on the team from this year, Brian Cushing. And he is basically washed up already. We had Barwin and Quin, who they let walk (poor choices by Smith). So this was his first legit draft with playmakers and he let two of them walk after their rookie deals. Way to go Smith! The only move in the off-season worth anything was signing Antonio Smith, another solid free agent signing. Cushing was a Frank Bush pick, see post draft video where Bush says he knew Cushing was his pick back in the middle of Fall if Cushing was still on the board.
2010: Another poor draft with Jackson leading the way. Graham was a late round pick that people thought had value, but is proving to be as valuable as Anthony Hill (same round year before) was. The year of Wade Smith :/ Kareem Jackson was a Smith pick if not a Smith/David Gibbs pick.
2011: JJ Watt and........Derek Newton? Brooks Reed, who again, they let walk after his rookie contract was decent. Sadly this is Smiths BEST draft. How pathetic. That off-season while everyone went after Nnamdi, Smith snuck one under the radar and nabbed Joseph and then got Manning. His best free agent class of his tenure. JJ Watt was a Wade Phillips pick, McNair promised Wade first rd draft picks to accept the Defensive Coordinator job and to fix the Texans defense. I think everyone must know this but you.See articles/videos where Wade says he's been successful and has a good eye for talent, see post 2011 draft interviews.
2012: Some may argue this is his best draft, I think you will see the way of previous drafts soon, we hang on to a few scrubs from each draft for awhile before we let them go and they never are heard from again, its about time for this class. Brandon Brooks was the best pick (Mercilus is trash), but I will say we got solid OL depth from this class. Nothing special, but his first "average" draft. Worst free agent year? Possibly....
Again another Wade pick full filling McNair's promise to Wade. See post draft interviews.
2013: Its been two seasons and already left with Hopkins only. Worst. Draft. In. History. The year of Ed Reed
I won't do 2014 or 2015, but they aren't looking very good. Sadly this is worse than I even thought it would be. In 6 seasons we have 9 players on this team from our drafts. Puke! Rick Smith has got to go, how some continue to defend him is beyond me.
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Wow was this rant aired on Texans Radio Network 610?
I agree with u on Obrien....I like him and I think he's a solid coach but I'm having my doubts as to whether he can be a really good "Head Coach".....and your right on point about his resume....I guess every Head Coach has his rookie yrs but I never really saw enough on his resume to have a lot of confidence that he was our guy as "Head Coach"...I sure hope you & I are wrong....time will tell
DrumBeatsLouder
Waterboy
Indeed it was... and it was a glorious, solid melt!
Along with "just because we're the flagship station for the Houston Texans, a lot of you [fans] just say that we're homers for the Texans and always try to pull out the good/positive"..."and let me say thats not the case bc i will be the first to tell you..." something along the lines of watching horrible, embarrassing football and he goes on with about a 10 minute rant about his disgust/displeasure for the game.
The McNair's are the problem. But Rick Smith has been thru 2 regimes and no experienced HC with a winning track record is going to take the job with Smith still here. The McNair's biggest failure IMHO is they hired inexperienced (Cheap) rookie HC's and Rick was an inexperienced GM who is basically a yes man.
This hiring pattern would doom most NFL franchises and until the McNair's change this you can expect more of the same old same old while the McNair's are laughing all the way to the bank.
This hiring pattern would doom most NFL franchises and until the McNair's change this you can expect more of the same old same old while the McNair's are laughing all the way to the bank.
Coming around to my way of thinking DB?
The fact that an inexperienced HC was the choice of the McNair's is unsettling and I liked the BOB hire, I just liked experienced HC's that were available more.
michaelm
vox nihili
I disagree with the premise that the McNairs are all about marketing and only about making money. I feel like they truly want to win.
I just think that they have no clue how to go about it.
eriadoc
Texan-American
I told my wife yesterday I'd be spending a lot of Sundays out fishing.
The1ApplePie
Hall of Fame
Any chance O'Brien pulls a Petrino and goes back to the college ranks mid-way through the season? Texas will probably have an opening.
Glad you think that. You dont think a billionaire doesn't know that hiring a proven winning NFL HC would give him the best chance to win and paying for the top asst coaches wouldn't improve the Texans chances of winning? Why hasn't he taken this approach? Could it be $$$$, or the good ole boy network is alive and well?
Nope the McNair's are all about $$$$ and control. Winning is and always has been a secondary thought. BTW, notice how after the McNair's spent $$$$ in FA (JoJo/Manning) and spent $$$$ on a competent DC (Wade) that new good position coaches on defense, the Texans starting making the playoffs?
After yrs of watching crap ST's I would spend huge $$$$ to get a ST coach that could atleast make that unit avg.
So McNair is willing to spend money to win? Well yes, I certainly agree.
Texian
Hall of Fame
McNair believes that because he has been so successful in his other adventures he has the know how and all the answers for the Texans.
The argument AGAINST winning being a second thought IS, McNair had no problem mortgaging the future, renegotiating contracts left and right, handing out BIG early contracts, spending 3 years in salary cap hell (which he has still not recovered) trying to buy himself a Championship. Part of the Texans problems today are a direct result of McNair's (poor) decisions to mortgage the future.
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I can say for certain that McNair gives his staff (HC & GM) everything he possibly can to make this franchise a winner .... from one of the largest scouting departments in the league to spending plenty of $$$ on players. Winning is the top priority .... they were damn close two consecutive years and just didn't get the breaks ..... (damn that feels like such a long time ago). To win it all , you have to be lucky and good .... they were good but not lucky.
He has forced some decisions on the staff player wise (Keenum and Ed Reed come to mind) but in general he's given them every tool in the shop and things just haven't worked out.
Brisco_County
Apples and roadmaps
There have been plenty of examples over the years of McNair being committed to winning. They are just easily forgotten when a season goes sour. He's also responsive to fan sentiment, and isn't cocooned away from outside voices like an Al Davis.
The product currently on the field is likely making him nauseous. From the way he spoke of the 2013 season, you'd think that he was more sickened by the string of losses than his chemo sessions. He will always be fair to a head coach and give him the time he needs to prove himself, but if we go four wins this season, I won't be surprised if a coaching change is made.
And I won't even be surprised of a GM change is made, despite the family relationship to Smith. Maybe he'll be "promoted" again, but those 2nd through 4th round draft busts can't be ignored.
The product currently on the field is likely making him nauseous. From the way he spoke of the 2013 season, you'd think that he was more sickened by the string of losses than his chemo sessions. He will always be fair to a head coach and give him the time he needs to prove himself, but if we go four wins this season, I won't be surprised if a coaching change is made.
And I won't even be surprised of a GM change is made, despite the family relationship to Smith. Maybe he'll be "promoted" again, but those 2nd through 4th round draft busts can't be ignored.
Translation:
"It's on me."
Sound familiar?
Then he's had the wrong people sharpening the tools.
For instance Richard Smith and Frank Bush hires weren't very sharp tools. Are you telling me it was Kubiak's idea that Marciano was doing a good job with the ST's? McNair interferes, IMHO
McNair is the kind of manager that tells you that you are in charge and then you make a decision and McNair says well you're in charge of everything but that. This is why he wont hire a strong proven winner who will do whatever it takes to win and instead he hires unproven HC's that he can control.
While I disagree about McNair doing everything in his power to win, if it takes a 4 win season to affect change in the FO/Scouting depts so be it.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
OB was a Head coach of the year candidate last season. How soon people forget. He did a great job with what he had.
This year, not so much.
I'm not writing him off yet though. The QB position being so bad is effecting a lot of other elements on this team, and I've seen that happen on a lot of teams. I'd like to see OB get one more season here, unless some great HC is on the market and he is wanting to be here, but I don't know who that would even be at this point. I still think the Texans can have a competitive season, but nothing to be excited about and we won't be in any playoffs. I'll reserve judgement until the end of the season.
This year, not so much.
I'm not writing him off yet though. The QB position being so bad is effecting a lot of other elements on this team, and I've seen that happen on a lot of teams. I'd like to see OB get one more season here, unless some great HC is on the market and he is wanting to be here, but I don't know who that would even be at this point. I still think the Texans can have a competitive season, but nothing to be excited about and we won't be in any playoffs. I'll reserve judgement until the end of the season.
Texian
Hall of Fame
Or more likely why a strong proven winner would not interview for the job. The word is out through the coaching fraternity, you can be sure. That's why he needs to hire a real GM and then back off. Unfortunately his ego will never let that happen.