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Is it Grade the Draft time?

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Keep pulling. Ain’t stopping. It would be nice to let someone express a little optimism some taking a shot. It’s not like anyone here has all the answers. But BG only has a little over one season under his belt. I’m just trying to show a little respect for those that actually have skin in the game.
Good luck

Until they change the way they do business, dont expect any Lombardi's down on Kirby.

You're new to the MB, but I've been saying this since 2010. This issn't Gaine's fault, this is a directive from ownership on how he wants business to be done. I was actually optimistic that things might change under Cal but so far nothing has changed in the way they do business.

The Houston Texans are still just a marketing team with a football division as a guy who used to be on here regularly (Until he gave up on change) used to say.
 

Dejaview

Rookie
Good luck

Until they change the way they do business, dont expect any Lombardi's down on Kirby.

You're new to the MB, but I've been saying this since 2010. This issn't Gaine's fault, this is a directive from ownership on how he wants business to be done. I was actually optimistic that things might change under Cal but so far nothing has changed in the way they do business.

The Houston Texans are still just a marketing team with a football division as a guy who used to be on here regularly (Until he gave up on change) used to say.
Prove that this is a directive from ownership on how he is to conduct business. Texans will spend money and draft capital. Just ask Cleveland. If anything, so far I’d say someone is trying to change that crap. This is an information board. Just show facts to back all your claims so we can all learn something. I’m not saying you are wrong but I’m not that easy.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Prove that this is a directive from ownership on how he is to conduct business. Texans will spend money and draft capital. Just ask Cleveland. If anything, so far I’d say someone is trying to change that crap. This is an information board. Just show facts to back all your claims so we can all learn something. I’m not saying you are wrong but I’m not that easy.
If 17 yrs doesn't convince you nothing I say will convince you.
 

Dejaview

Rookie
If 17 yrs doesn't convince you nothing I say will convince you.
Sure it will. Prove your statements. Seventeen years proves nothing about ownership directives. What does it prove. Bob McNair just knew nothing about the NFL. He wasted so much money extending injured players, extending coaches and GM’s too soon, throwing FA money away starting with Boselli and on and on. We spent money but too often in waste. We have a new GM that knows he has to extend some big contracts coming up with enough left over to get a difference maker FA when the window is right Isn’t that smart? I mean everyone here thinks Indy and their GM are kicking our butts right now but they came into 2019 with 20 million more in cap space than us. Maybe they are on to something as we seem to be finally on to it.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Sure it will. Prove your statements. Seventeen years proves nothing about ownership directives. What does it prove. Bob McNair just knew nothing about the NFL. He wasted so much money extending injured players, extending coaches and GM’s too soon, throwing FA money away starting with Boselli and on and on. We spent money but too often in waste. We have a new GM that knows he has to extend some big contracts coming up with enough left over to get a difference maker FA when the window is right Isn’t that smart? I mean everyone here thinks Indy and their GM are kicking our butts right now but they came into 2019 with 20 million more in cap space than us. Maybe they are on to something as we seem to be finally on to it.
Like I said if history cant change your mind

I certainly cant and wont be responding to this anymore. But tell me how many differencemakers have the Texans spent big $$$$ on in FA over 17 yrs? Dont give me Os.

JoJo is the only one I can think of that meets this criteria. Maybe you can point me to others. Can you also point me to why you think things have changed in the way they do business down on Kirby, other than being blinded by fandom? (Not that there's anything wrong with being a blind fan, the McNair's surely appreciate your level of fandom and your $$$$.)
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
Good luck

Until they change the way they do business, dont expect any Lombardi's down on Kirby.

You're new to the MB, but I've been saying this since 2010. This issn't Gaine's fault, this is a directive from ownership on how he wants business to be done. I was actually optimistic that things might change under Cal but so far nothing has changed in the way they do business.

The Houston Texans are still just a marketing team with a football division as a guy who used to be on here regularly (Until he gave up on change) used to say.
To say that Vinny gave up on change is doing him mis-service imo. He didn't quit coming to this board because of continuing failure of the Texans as much as what this board became imo. Also being more invested in the 49'ers I think
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
Like I said if history cant change your mind

I certainly cant and wont be responding to this anymore. But tell me how many differencemakers have the Texans spent big $$$$ on in FA over 17 yrs? Dont give me Os.

JoJo is the only one I can think of that meets this criteria. Maybe you can point me to others. Can you also point me to why you think things have changed in the way they do business down on Kirby, other than being blinded by fandom? (Not that there's anything wrong with being a blind fan, the McNair's surely appreciate your level of fandom and your $$$$.)

FA's should be used to add a final piece or two. When have the Texans ever been in that position other than after 2011? Depth has been an issue since 2002
 

zshawn10

All Pro
From Pancakes chat:

(Least favorite pick?) Most surprising was Kahale Warring. They didn’t need a TE. They have 4, including Ryan Griffin – who I think will be cut but I thought that since they signed Darren Fells. Now they have 5. I understand about his upside & how fired up they are about having a TE who can do everything. He’s a cross between Jordan Akins(good route runner, good hands, can catch) and Jordan Thomas(bigger guy, redzone target, worked hard to be a better blocker). You don’t go from San Diego State to starting in the NFL so I’m sure they’ll use Akins, Thomas & Warring although I don’t know if they’ll suit up 3 TEs. I guess they will but guess the odd man out is Griffin & Fells.

(Scenario where the Texans/Clowney settle on a one-year, huge AAV deal?) Already on a one-year deal, $15.7M.

(Punter Marquette King?) His coach in Oakland is in his 2nd year here. He was a great punter but not the Texans kind of guy when it comes to being outspoken. That’s not Bill O’Brien’s type of guy but Bill loves & respects Brad Seely. I’m sure that was a Brad Seely thing. I’d be surprised if they moved on from Trevor Daniel.

(Any UDFA stand out?) Ira Lewis. Why do I believe that? (Baylor)

(Should the Texans sign John Football?) Why would they even think about signing John Manziel? My prediction is he’ll end up in the XFL for our franchise.

(Why does it feel the Texans fell short in the draft on any/all needs?) They fell short based on people that don’t know anything about the Texans based on mock drafts. Do you want them to win April or during the season? Last year, no one was fired up about the draft because they didn’t have 1st & 2nd round picks. Justin Reid & Keke Coutee turned out to be pretty good & others from that draft(Duke Ejiofor) will make that draft look real good. I’ll reserve judgement. I know they’re fired up about Howard & think he has everything it takes to be a day one starter. I can see if Seantrel Henderson plays well, Max Scharping could move inside to guard. I don’t think they’ll start two rookie tackles. Eventually we’ll see Howard & Scharping as their bookend tackles. (Who would lose their spot at G?) I’m guessing Zach Fulton because Rankin is starting at LG.

(Texans ready to move on from Trevor Daniel?) No they’re not. Brad Seely wanted to bring him in to look at him.

(Texans draft grade?) My draft grades were in the Chronicle. I gave them a B-. They filled needs with every position except the 3rd round TE. They didn’t need one but took him because he was rated way ahead of other guys at that point.
https://www.houstonchronicle.com/sports/texas-sports-nation/texans/article/John-McClain-s-Texans-chat-How-well-were-needs-13825941.php?utm_source=sftwitter&utm_campaign=socialflow&utm_medium=referral
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
To say that Vinny gave up on change is doing him mis-service imo. He didn't quit coming to this board because of continuing failure of the Texans as much as what this board became imo. Also being more invested in the 49'ers I think
We will have to disagree, yes the makeup of the MB had something to do with this. But ask yourself why he became more invested in the 49ers than the Texans? Alot of old timers feel this way. Bill/Sandy/GP etc....
 

dream_team

All Pro
Prove that this is a directive from ownership on how he is to conduct business. Texans will spend money and draft capital. Just ask Cleveland. If anything, so far I’d say someone is trying to change that crap. This is an information board. Just show facts to back all your claims so we can all learn something. I’m not saying you are wrong but I’m not that easy.
Asking for proof from SteelB? You ARE new to this board. Good luck with that. :)
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
We will have to disagree, yes the makeup of the MB had something to do with this. But ask yourself why he became more invested in the 49ers than the Texans? Alot of old timers feel this way. Bill/Sandy/GP etc....
I believe Vinny was a 49'er fan before he was a Texans fan, but I didn't know him that well. Bill/GMA/GP left because of what this MB had become, not because of what the Texans were doing
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
I believe Vinny was a 49'er fan before he was a Texans fan, but I didn't know him that well. Bill/GMA/GP left because of what this MB had become, not because of what the Texans were doing
Or quite possibly they got tired of the Texans mediocrity.

Go check out Bill's avatar for example.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Asking for proof from SteelB? You ARE new to this board. Good luck with that. :)
The proof is 17 yrs and the last 2 regimes with business as usual.

FA's should be used to add a final piece or two. When have the Texans ever been in that position other than after 2011? Depth has been an issue since 2002
Look at how the best teams are being run and then look at how the Texans are being run. Remove the Pats from the discussion because they have GOATs as HC/QB. Also ask yourself why has depth been such an issue for so long.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
Or quite possibly they got tired of the Texans mediocrity.

Go check out Bill's avatar for example.
I see GMA everyday on FB... she's still an avid Texans fan. Bill's avatar is of a pretty girl, is that surprising? Methinks you are reaching
 

dream_team

All Pro
The proof is 17 yrs and the last 2 regimes with business as usual.
Once again... there's a big difference between Proof & Opinion.

From 2011-2016, the Texans have been below the NFL average in available cap space. In other words, they spend more than average. Now that is FACT, not opinion. I wish I could even check earlier than 2011, but sportrac doesn't go back that far.
 
Its the constant harping. Ok, we all get it by now. But you ain’t changing anything with it. I mean BG has just come on board and you are already writing him off. If you bother to read his interviews this guy is very clear how he is building his team. First he is a strong believer in building through the draft. He says you have to do that. So signing FA’s at this rebuilding stage while forsaking comp picks is back burner for now, but he is capable. Look at the HB signing. Then he BPA’d Reid because the safety position was as broken as the OL. Next he explicitly states he wants the Texans to get bigger, faster and longer. He is doing that, right? Where was Casserly and Smith ever so clear? He is putting all kinds of metrics out there by which he can be judged...putting his young career in full view. What else do you want? I mean the culture is changing before your very eyes. I believe where he is going with this is eventually plug and play. Right player, right position every draft as a goal to try to achieve consistency.
Brother you ain't been here near long enough to have lost patience with SteelB yet. :cool: If you are already tired of the "Constant Harping" and demanding proof then buckle up cowboy because its gonna be a long, hard ride. And to be fair its not just Steelb, the same can be said about 70-90 percent of the rest of this board that actually post and not just lurk.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Once again... there's a big difference between Proof & Opinion.

From 2011-2016, the Texans have been below the NFL average in available cap space. In other words, they spend more than average. Now that is FACT, not opinion. I wish I could even check earlier than 2011, but sportrac doesn't go back that far.
Fact they don't run their team like successful orgs do and will continue to be also rans until they start doing what successful orgs do.
 
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thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
FA's should be used to add a final piece or two. When have the Texans ever been in that position other than after 2011? Depth has been an issue since 2002
Agreed.

But when we talk about FA, more times than not we're talking about veteran player acquisitions. Whether it's by trade or whatever. Good players change teams every year & for whatever reason it seems we aren't interested. Jordan Howard for a 2020 conditional draft pick. How could we have not been interested in that.

Yeah, maybe there was a good reason. But every year, it seems someone worth getting is got for a 5th round pick, or later.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
Agreed.

But when we talk about FA, more times than not we're talking about veteran player acquisitions. Whether it's by trade or whatever. Good players change teams every year & for whatever reason it seems we aren't interested. Jordan Howard for a 2020 conditional draft pick. How could we have not been interested in that.

Yeah, maybe there was a good reason. But every year, it seems someone worth getting is got for a 5th round pick, or later.
Yeah, but has nothing to do with my comment
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
Lol, no but it looks that way. I just believe in letting a little grass grow under his feet before he gets written off as another McNair mistake. Man, some of these posters here must have miserable lives.
No...
 

Dejaview

Rookie
... Not even... fans been here since 2002 and ain't seen special yet
We might be doing so now. At least I’m seeing a set of instructions to change the culture and player profile. Instant gratification is for children. Texans will never change until they get a sober view of a direction. I for one find this part of football interesting. Not saying this is a foolproof plan but we were going nowhere without one. Can’t wait to see BG’s second step this week.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
We might be doing so now. At least I’m seeing a set of instructions to change the culture and player profile. Instant gratification is for children. Texans will never change until they get a sober view of a direction. I for one find this part of football interesting. Not saying this is a foolproof plan but we were going nowhere without one. Can’t wait to see BG’s second step this week.
Agreed, even though the draft only plan will never bring a championship to Kirby. As evidenced by the last 10 yrs.
 

cuppacoffee

Resident Grouch
What are you talking about JB? Our special team kicked a$$ last year. Fairbairn should have been an all pro and the rest of the special team wasn't to shabby either.
It was a phase that was in terrible shape. Gaine got players in here that made a drastic change in one year.

I think it is one of Gaine's goals to have our ST one of, if not the best, going forward.

:coffee:
 

HaveMercy

Passing Through
Just an interjection from the peanut gallery.

I really do understand the frustration that began many years ago. However, when that frustration becomes the lens through which the Texans management, ownership, and coaching is seen, it's difficult to get much hope from what's going on now. If disappointment has become a main ingredient in the soup, so to speak, it flavors everything.

I hang onto the old saying that hope springs eternal. I choose to focus on the hints that Gaine is a ray of sunshine but I recognize he must delicately navigate upper managments' preconceived ways of seeing things.

Even if Cal would be inclined to shake up the established ways of doing business, he may not be able to quite yet as long as he must consider Mom's point of view. I wish her a long, happy, and healthy life, but recognize she likely still reflects Bob's business views. If my speculation is reasonably correct, that's a big constraint on Cal's -- and thereby Gaine's--freedom to act.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Just an interjection from the peanut gallery.

I really do understand the frustration that began many years ago. However, when that frustration becomes the lens through which the Texans management, ownership, and coaching is seen, it's difficult to get much hope from what's going on now. If disappointment has become a main ingredient in the soup, so to speak, it flavors everything.

I hang onto the old saying that hope springs eternal. I choose to focus on the hints that Gaine is a ray of sunshine but I recognize he must delicately navigate upper managments' preconceived ways of seeing things.

Even if Cal would be inclined to shake up the established ways of doing business, he may not be able to quite yet as long as he must consider Mom's point of view. I wish her a long, happy, and healthy life, but recognize she likely still reflects Bob's business views. If my speculation is reasonably correct, that's a big constraint on Cal's -- and thereby Gaine's--freedom to act.
Great post

Hopefully when Janice dies, Cal's siblings will want the cash and Cal will be forced to sell the team. That's the best chance of there ever being a Lombardi on Kirby.
 

Dejaview

Rookie
Agreed, even though the draft only plan will never bring a championship to Kirby. As evidenced by the last 10 yrs.
I’m pretty sure big money will be spent at the right time with the right player(s). Give this thing time to develop. With a plan you can throw out things that don’t work and keep the parts that do, but to stay on track for constant improvement we have to have this set of instructions first.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
We might be doing so now. At least I’m seeing a set of instructions to change the culture and player profile. Instant gratification is for children. Texans will never change until they get a sober view of a direction. I for one find this part of football interesting. Not saying this is a foolproof plan but we were going nowhere without one. Can’t wait to see BG’s second step this week.
While I wouldn't call them children, instant gratification does seem to define the 'now generation'. As I've said many times in the past
 

Dejaview

Rookie
It was a phase that was in terrible shape. Gaine got players in here that made a drastic change in one year.

I think it is one of Gaine's goals to have our ST one of, if not the best, going forward.

:coffee:
He wants every phase better. Last year ST was just a raised floor. Their is no ceiling with BG, he said as much in a recent Chronicle article. To prove it he drafted a ST demon and I believe brought in a veteran punter for an interview recently. I believe even Fairbairn could be upgraded. Misses too many extra points for me. Also look how our weight room and strength and conditioning programs have been improved...even getting bigger bodies to put in it.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
I’m pretty sure big money will be spent at the right time with the right player(s). Give this thing time to develop. With a plan you can throw out things that don’t work and keep the parts that do, but to stay on track for constant improvement we have to have this set of instructions first.
What makes you think this?

History says they haven't done this before. Exclusions JoJo
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
He wants every phase better. Last year ST was just a raised floor. Their is no ceiling with BG, he said as much in a recent Chronicle article. To prove it he drafted a ST demon and I believe brought in a veteran punter for an interview recently. I believe even Fairbairn could be upgraded. Misses too many extra points for me. Also look how our weight room and strength and conditioning programs have been improved...even getting bigger bodies to put in it.
And yet the every WR on the team had hamstring issues.

I will give Gaine this, there's a new S&C guy because of these issues, so he cuts bait on mistakes and moves on quickly. Something that was certainly lacking in the previous regime.
 

HaveMercy

Passing Through
Great post

Hopefully when Janice dies, Cal's siblings will want the cash and Cal will be forced to sell the team. That's the best chance of there ever being a Lombardi on Kirby.
IMO, that's one of those better be careful what you hope for type things. Who is to say any new owner would be better than the family we now have? Things could get worse, not better.

A bunch of teams have owners we wouldn't want. Plus, can you imagine how rich someone would have to be to afford the Texans by then? Anyone paying that much would really be looking to squeeze some profit, I reckon. And, anyone in that financial position would have NO feel for us, the fans.

So, I'd like to see Cal have a real chance to be his own man before we start hoping for new ownership.
 
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Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
It was a phase that was in terrible shape. Gaine got players in here that made a drastic change in one year.

I think it is one of Gaine's goals to have our ST one of, if not the best, going forward.

:coffee:

What drastic change did those players make? The secondary was still sizzling dumpster juice. The oline was still diarrhea.

Watson healthy and a weak schedule is what helped this team to the beautiful record of 11-5.
 


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