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Irvins acceptance to HOF is an outrage

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whiskeyrbl

Guest
I'm sure I'll hear it about this. But how in the world can you have a player in the HOF that was charged and admitted to using an illegal drug (marijuana) and being in a place where a supposed rape or sexual misconduct took place with a teammate. Yet Pete Rose is banned from the HOF for gambling? At least gambling is legal in some places in the US. Hey they both admitted wrong doing. But I guess the race card can't be used because it's reversed this time.
 
2 different sports and 2 different sets of rules. NFL is only concerned about what took place on the field. Besides Rose is a total jerk of a person. I have met him several times and wouldn't wish him on my worse emeny.
 
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whiskeyrbl

Guest
2 different sports and 2 different sets of rules. NFL is only concerned about what took place on the field. Besides Rose is a total jerk of a person. I have met him several times and wouldn't wish him on my worse emeny.
Doesn't matter about the different sports. Both HOF's are supposed to be for the best players in the history of the sport!!!!! Regardless if you are a jackass or not. Rose definitely put up the numbers and has some records that will never come close to being broke. The message I see being sent is it's ok to smoke pot and commit a rape or be where a rape takes place, but don't bet money on your team to win. Thats a good message to our youth don't ya think.
 
But Rose has been BANNED from baseball for his legal gambling. Betting on his own team where he had some control over the outcome.
 

HoustonFrog

Dallas Frog
Doesn't matter about the different sports. Both HOF's are supposed to be for the best players in the history of the sport!!!!! Regardless if you are a jackass or not. Rose definitely put up the numbers and has some records that will never come close to being broke. The message I see being sent is it's ok to smoke pot and commit a rape or be where a rape takes place, but don't bet money on your team to win. Thats a good message to our youth don't ya think.
So anyone who has made mistakes and then has changed themselves should not be in? As some other veterans have said, it isn't the Life Hall of Fame, it is the Football Hall of Fame. Stats are all that matters. So are you saying Lawrence Taylor and a host of others who did drugs, had problems, etc should not get in either?This sounds more like dislike for the player than the standards. Football and Baseballs Halls are different.
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Doesn't matter about the different sports. Both HOF's are supposed to be for the best players in the history of the sport!!!!! Regardless if you are a jackass or not. Rose definitely put up the numbers and has some records that will never come close to being broke. The message I see being sent is it's ok to smoke pot and commit a rape or be where a rape takes place, but don't bet money on your team to win. Thats a good message to our youth don't ya think.
If there was even a hint that Michael Irvin threw a game to win a bet, or settle a wager, you can rest assured, that he wouldn't be in the Hall of Fame.

& that is basically why Pete Rose was banned from Baseball...... & denied the HOF.

Think about it.. what Pete Rose did challenges the integrity of the game, and you want to celevrate him??

Michael Irvin....... & folks like him challenges the way teams select their players. But you can't deny he did all he could to give you & me an entertaining show.
 

StarStruck

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the rape charges false, and because of the accusation both Irvin and Williams sued and won?

I don't agree to a person using illegal drugs, but even if I didn't like Irvin, there is a big difference between being accused of illegal drugs for personal use and gambling for or against the team that you are managing. The latter can compromise the integrity of the whole game in addition to a manager being in the position to profit perosnally from such bets.

OBTW, congratulations to Irvin, Thurman, Matthews and the others who were inducted.
 

GP

Go Texans!
Nobody is saying he is a role model.

I would think if you polled people, you'd find that they do not consider Irvin to be someone to pattern their life after.

BUT...he played the WR position brilliantly, IMO. Great size, great speed, and awesome instinct.

He deserves to be in the HOF. Stats, championships, etc., prove he was a HOF PLAYER. I don't condone his personal lifestyle, and I cannot stand his commentary on ESPN...but he was a great player nonetheless.

We should trust that people know Irvin was a great player, yet perhaps NOT the person you want your kids to idiolize.
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Wow......... Irvin has been married for 20 years...

20 years.....
 

Dr. Toro

Rookie
I don't know how Irvin gets in before Monk does. Irvin's got higher per-season totals, but lesser career stats. Monk won plenty of rings too and set a lot of records in his time. Art Monk should be the maddest dude in the world right now. It's not that Irvin isn't deserving, he is... it's that he was a wreck and pretty disrespectful during his time in the league and hasn't been above reproach in retirement. I guess Irvin has the distinction of playing his entire career for Dallas, while Monk bounced around.

Pete Rose shouldn't be in the Hall of Fame. He's done nothing since he was banned to change perception either. Such a shame, the dude just played on a psychotically intense level...
 

Mr. White

H-Town Beatdown
If there's a spot for Lawrence Taylor in Canton, then there should be one for Michael Irvin.

Like it or not, he's one of the best wide receivers ever to play the game. On one of the best teams that's ever been in the game.

He's gone a long way towards cleaning up his act the past few years as well. Well deserved.
 

HoustonFrog

Dallas Frog
I don't know how Irvin gets in before Monk does. Irvin's got higher per-season totals, but lesser career stats. Monk won plenty of rings too and set a lot of records in his time. Art Monk should be the maddest dude in the world right now. It's not that Irvin isn't deserving, he is... it's that he was a wreck and pretty disrespectful during his time in the league and hasn't been above reproach in retirement. I guess Irvin has the distinction of playing his entire career for Dallas, while Monk bounced around.

Pete Rose shouldn't be in the Hall of Fame. He's done nothing since he was banned to change perception either. Such a shame, the dude just played on a psychotically intense level...
I go with McClain on this one. Monk wasn't even the best player on his team during the good years. Sanders had better stats than him in almost every year they were teammates..so he wasn't even the go to guy on his own team.
 

HoustonFrog

Dallas Frog
If there's a spot for Lawrence Taylor in Canton, then there should be one for Michael Irvin.

Like it or not, he's one of the best wide receivers ever to play the game. On one of the best teams that's ever been in the game.

He's gone a long way towards cleaning up his act the past few years as well. Well deserved.
Exactly and we aren't going into the dozens of guys in that probably dabbled in drugs during the heavy steroid days, etc. Again, football players all have their own personality and style and I'm sure the Hall has every type. As I said above and you reiteratted, you can't put in a Taylor and then say you should keep Irvin out.
 

Texasian

Practice Squad
I'm sure I'll hear it about this. But how in the world can you have a player in the HOF that was charged and admitted to using an illegal drug (marijuana) and being in a place where a supposed rape or sexual misconduct took place with a teammate. Yet Pete Rose is banned from the HOF for gambling? At least gambling is legal in some places in the US. Hey they both admitted wrong doing. But I guess the race card can't be used because it's reversed this time.
Are you serious? You just talked about his 'off the field' incidents and not once mentioned his accomplishments with the 'Boys. Take off the Texans' Blindfold! Football HOF is about what you did ON THE FIELD NOT OFF. Heck, they won't even take out OJ out (which was not PC). It is what it is, ON THE FIELD!
He's in! That's all!
 

tulexan

Hall of Fame
The difference is that Irvin may have been a drug addict and involved in some questionable circumstances, but his actions never affected the integrity of the game or the outcome of the games he played in. Pete Rose gambling on his team did affect the integrity of the game and the outcome of the games he coached.

That is the key difference.
 
I don't know how Irvin gets in before Monk does. Irvin's got higher per-season totals, but lesser career stats. Monk won plenty of rings too and set a lot of records in his time. Art Monk should be the maddest dude in the world right now. It's not that Irvin isn't deserving, he is... it's that he was a wreck and pretty disrespectful during his time in the league and hasn't been above reproach in retirement. I guess Irvin has the distinction of playing his entire career for Dallas, while Monk bounced around.
Irvin was one of the 3 most important players on a team that won 3 Super Bowls. Many felt that he was THE leader of that great Dallas team, moreso than either Aikman or Emmitt Smith.

Yes, he has been involved in a number of unsavory incidents off the field and is far from a role model as far as his personal character goes. But strictly as a football player, he is deserving of admission to the HOF, as was Lawrence Taylor despite all of his personal problems. (I'm not implying Irvin is as deserving as Taylor was; Taylor was clearly a greater player than Irvin.)

As to Art Monk, I wouldn't say he is undeserving of admission to the HOF, but he is much less deserving than Irvin. Monk wasn't known as a playmaker; he caught a lot of short passes and due to his longevity was able to amass some nice stats. However, he wasn't even the #1 WR on his team and should not be considered as worthy as Irvin for the HOF.

Monk is a better human being than Irvin is, but that's not a criterion for the HOF.
 

Texasian

Practice Squad
The difference is that Irvin may have been a drug addict and involved in some questionable circumstances, but his actions never affected the integrity of the game or the outcome of the games he played in. Pete Rose gambling on his team did affect the integrity of the game and the outcome of the games he coached.

That is the key difference.
Ding, ding, ding, ding, we have a winner!
 

mexican_texan

Furry Tractors
I go with McClain on this one. Monk wasn't even the best player on his team during the good years. Sanders had better stats than him in almost every year they were teammates..so he wasn't even the go to guy on his own team.
We're in the same camp. Monk wasn't the most dangerous WR on the team, and when he was, it wasn't much of a falloff to the next guy.

Seriously, though, how is Derrick Thomas not in?
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I don't know how Irvin gets in before Monk does. Irvin's got higher per-season totals, but lesser career stats. Monk won plenty of rings too and set a lot of records in his time. Art Monk should be the maddest dude in the world right now. It's not that Irvin isn't deserving, he is... it's that he was a wreck and pretty disrespectful during his time in the league and hasn't been above reproach in retirement. I guess Irvin has the distinction of playing his entire career for Dallas, while Monk bounced around.
I can go with that....... Monk should definitely have been in before Irvin.
 

Dr. Toro

Rookie
I go with McClain on this one. Monk wasn't even the best player on his team during the good years. Sanders had better stats than him in almost every year they were teammates..so he wasn't even the go to guy on his own team.
You could make the same argument about Craig Biggio too.... body of work matters. Good point though. He was just a favorite of mine growing up, feels like he deserves his due.
 

kbourda

Veteran
I'm sure I'll hear it about this. But how in the world can you have a player in the HOF that was charged and admitted to using an illegal drug (marijuana) and being in a place where a supposed rape or sexual misconduct took place with a teammate. Yet Pete Rose is banned from the HOF for gambling? At least gambling is legal in some places in the US. Hey they both admitted wrong doing. But I guess the race card can't be used because it's reversed this time.
Funny you mention Pete Rose and the Hall of Fame but you don't make a mention of a racist MURDERER in Tyrus Cobb being in the HOF. I'm sure you are in complete outrage behind that. Can I play the race card in this one? For the record, I feel Rose should be in the HOF. FOR THE PLAYERS ACCOMPLISHMENTS IN THE FIELD OF PLAY SHOULD BE LOOKED AT WHEN CONSIDERING FOR ANY ENSHRINEMENT, PERIOD.
 

dirty steve

Veteran
If there's a spot for Lawrence Taylor in Canton, then there should be one for Michael Irvin.

Like it or not, he's one of the best wide receivers ever to play the game. On one of the best teams that's ever been in the game.

He's gone a long way towards cleaning up his act the past few years as well. Well deserved.
I guess the November 2005 arrest on drug paraphanelia possession cleans up your image?
 

dirty steve

Veteran
Funny you mention Pete Rose and the Hall of Fame but you don't make a mention of a racist MURDERER in Tyrus Cobb being in the HOF. I'm sure you are in complete outrage behind that. Can I play the race card in this one? For the record, I feel Rose should be in the HOF. FOR THE PLAYERS ACCOMPLISHMENTS IN THE FIELD OF PLAY SHOULD BE LOOKED AT WHEN CONSIDERING FOR ANY ENSHRINEMENT, PERIOD.
Ty Cobb was a rumored POS, but do you need the race card to back it up?

Michael Irvin pulled the race card with his comments on Tony Romo. So you have to have some black in your bloodline to ball? Limbaugh said parallel comments and got hung out to dry. Why Irvin gets a free pass is beyond me.
 
Here is what Sports Illustrated's Dr. Z (a voter for the NFL Hall of Fame) had to say about the deliberations concerning Irvin:

[snip]

SI.com: How heated was the debate on Michael Irvin?

Dr. Z: Very heated. I think some people just didn't like him. But for me, it was just too logical that he belonged in. He was the do-it-all receiver for a three-time champion. He could catch anything. He was a leader who helped get the team to work hard. He blocked. He was tough. And he never had any help at the other receiver position. Maybe his numbers weren't as big as some others, but the Cowboys had Emmitt Smith, so of course they weren't going to throw that much.

SI.com: Why didn't Art Monk get elected?

Dr. Z: My feeling is that Monk was a great player. But when you played the Redskins, he was not the guy you had to stop. He was a very functional player. A great team guy. But I liked two wideouts better this year. Irvin and Andre Reed.

Will the improvement of receivers' statistics in recent years hurt Monk's chances of making it in the future?

Oh yeah. I think his best chance might have been when he first came on the ballot, because he was still near the top of the all-time lists then, but he' falling.


[snip]

It's interesting, but not surprising, that some writers just don't like Irvin. But Dr. Z's arguments for Irvin's admission are compelling.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/football/nfl/specials/playoffs/2006/02/03/drz.qa/index.html
 
Funny you mention Pete Rose and the Hall of Fame but you don't make a mention of a racist MURDERER in Tyrus Cobb being in the HOF. I'm sure you are in complete outrage behind that. Can I play the race card in this one? For the record, I feel Rose should be in the HOF. FOR THE PLAYERS ACCOMPLISHMENTS IN THE FIELD OF PLAY SHOULD BE LOOKED AT WHEN CONSIDERING FOR ANY ENSHRINEMENT, PERIOD.
Who did Ty Cobb murder? I never heard that one. That he was a racist is well-known.
 

dirty steve

Veteran
For the record, it wasn't a rumor, it was well known. And no I don't need it in this case, I was just sayin!
then dont bring it up. if you dont need it, then dont use it.

irvin gets a free pass and is a total piece of crap, loudmouth, crack smoking, self employed model utilizing, racist, and most of all, what i hate the most about the dallas girls. he somehow can skate under the radar by being nothing more than a total lout with a sketchy ability in the English vocabulary. now girls fans can throw another HOF up there along with those rings they always throw up in your face. he is going to get more pub than bruce matthews who was more dominant at his position than irvin ever was and missed a whole five games out of 297 that he played.
 

HoustonFrog

Dallas Frog
You could make the same argument about Craig Biggio too.... body of work matters. Good point though. He was just a favorite of mine growing up, feels like he deserves his due.
I agree and I never meant to say that Monk didn't belong in the Hall. He was a steady, great receiver. I just wanted to make the point that Monk wasn't even the best receiver on his own team for a bit or the go to guy. Still a strong candidate though.

As for Biggio...it may not be popular to say but I'll take him as the long term stud over Bags all day. Both should be in but Biggio is my man...just a side note and a completely different argument.
 
irvin gets a free pass and is a total piece of crap, loudmouth, crack smoking, self employed model utilizing, racist, and most of all, what i hate the most about the dallas girls. he somehow can skate under the radar by being nothing more than a total lout with a sketchy ability in the English vocabulary. now girls fans can throw another HOF up there along with those rings they always throw up in your face. he is going to get more pub than bruce matthews who was more dominant at his position than irvin ever was and missed a whole five games out of 297 that he played.
I agree Irvin will get more publicity because of all the controversy surrounding his election, but don't think the publicity will detract from Matthews getting his just due. BM was one of the all-time great offensive lineman who deservedly was elected his first time up. This was Irvin's third try.
 

HoustonFrog

Dallas Frog
then dont bring it up. if you dont need it, then dont use it.

irvin gets a free pass and is a total piece of crap, loudmouth, crack smoking, self employed model utilizing, racist, and most of all, what i hate the most about the dallas girls. he somehow can skate under the radar by being nothing more than a total lout with a sketchy ability in the English vocabulary. now girls fans can throw another HOF up there along with those rings they always throw up in your face. he is going to get more pub than bruce matthews who was more dominant at his position than irvin ever was and missed a whole five games out of 297 that he played.
That is a little over the top and for all the rings the Cowboys have won they actually lack in guys who should be up for HOF consideration...I'm talking more the 70s teams and earlier. I can understand how Irvin isn't some people's favorite but he was a player that deserves it.
 
W

whiskeyrbl

Guest
Funny you mention Pete Rose and the Hall of Fame but you don't make a mention of a racist MURDERER in Tyrus Cobb being in the HOF. I'm sure you are in complete outrage behind that. Can I play the race card in this one? For the record, I feel Rose should be in the HOF. FOR THE PLAYERS ACCOMPLISHMENTS IN THE FIELD OF PLAY SHOULD BE LOOKED AT WHEN CONSIDERING FOR ANY ENSHRINEMENT, PERIOD.
Sorry but did not know that about Cobb.
 
That is a little over the top and for all the rings the Cowboys have won they actually lack in guys who should be up for HOF consideration...I'm talking more the 70s teams and earlier. I can understand how Irvin isn't some people's favorite but he was a player that deserves it.
Agreed. Cliff Harris and the late Bob Hayes are two guys that obviously deserve admission, in my opinion. Hayes had some character issues that undoubtedly hurt him, but why Harris is not in the Hall of Fame is completely beyond me. Even Dr. Z has said he believes there is an anti-Dallas Cowboy bias among HOF voters.
 

TexanSam

Hall of Fame
Irvin was a better wide reciever than Art Monk. He deserves to get in (Irvin). As much as I dislike the guy as a person, you have to give him credit where credit is due. He was one of the three best players on those Cowboys teams.
 

kbourda

Veteran
then dont bring it up. if you dont need it, then dont use it.

irvin gets a free pass and is a total piece of crap, loudmouth, crack smoking, self employed model utilizing, racist, and most of all, what i hate the most about the dallas girls. he somehow can skate under the radar by being nothing more than a total lout with a sketchy ability in the English vocabulary. now girls fans can throw another HOF up there along with those rings they always throw up in your face. he is going to get more pub than bruce matthews who was more dominant at his position than irvin ever was and missed a whole five games out of 297 that he played.
Don't bring it up if I don't need it? Sorry , Massa! I's be good from now on.......

Wasn't aware I needed a coupon from you to express MY thoughts.

Ok, I hate the girls too but to attack the man's character is weak. He's earned this enshrinement in the field of play.
 

kbourda

Veteran
Sorry but did not know that about Cobb.
Hey knowledge is power. Cobb killed a Black man in what he know of today as a hate crime. Since it was "cool" to kill black folks back in the day it was like getting stopped for running a stop sign. In other words no big in his day.
 

HoustonFrog

Dallas Frog
Agreed. Cliff Harris and the late Bob Hayes are two guys that obviously deserve admission, in my opinion. Hayes had some character issues that undoubtedly hurt him, but why Harris is not in the Hall of Fame is completely beyond me. Even Dr. Z has said he believes there is an anti-Dallas Cowboy bias among HOF voters.
Exactly. Harris was one of the ones I was thinking of and many other writers have admitted to the anti-Dallas bias while voting. Many on Dallas Doomsday Ds failed to get recognition.
 
Hey knowledge is power. Cobb killed a Black man in what he know of today as a hate crime. Since it was "cool" to kill black folks back in the day it was like getting stopped for running a stop sign. In other words no big in his day.
Can you provide a link? Is that really true, or a rumor? I did some quick searching on Google, and couldn't find anything to confirm that. I also read a biography about Cobb years ago and there was no mention of his killing a black man in that book. There are numerous instances of his mistreating black people, but I haven't found any reference to him killing one.
 

dirty steve

Veteran
Don't bring it up if I don't need it? Sorry , Massa! I's be good from now on.......

Wasn't aware I needed a coupon from you to express MY thoughts.

Ok, I hate the girls too but to attack the man's character is weak. He's earned this enshrinement in the field of play.
i wasnt saying that man, and quit referring to me as someone who perpetuates a racial sterotype. dont throw that race card around as a threat, it's already done enough today. if you need to ask if you can do something like that, then it is a good sign you should have never brought it up.

BTW--if there is one thing that you should know about me is that i abhor racism and the nasty scar it has left on our great country. i grew up in a very tolerant household where hateful thoughts werent accepted. my dads family had a black maid in 1960's Louisiana and didnt see what the big deal was when kids called him the N word at school or N lover on the bus to school. i accost people around me when i hear that term used ans ask that they dont use it around me. i am white, but it affends me greatly. dont go around and color me with that paint when i had nothing to do with and do all i can to eridicate it.
 

Huge

All Pro
Irvin belongs in the Hall of Fame. If you're not sure of this, you either:

A. Don't know much about football.
B. Have a strong bias against Dallas.
C. Don't understand the difference between the Halls (baseball/football)
D. All of the above.

There's no reason to debate this. You either feel he deserves to be in or you're wrong.
 


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