KemahKeith
It's flooding down in Texas
Must have read wrong.
Thanks for the clarification
Thanks for the clarification
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Injury Thread
- Thread starter CloakNNNdagger
- Start date
fiasco west
All Pro
Any news on Mercilus?
Torn pectoral muscle is what I fear. Just judging from the way he grabbed his chest. Hope I’m wrong.
fiasco west
All Pro
Yeah, I'm fearing the same. I think if he can return though we'll be alright, our defense was still strong with him and Clowney last season. Hopefully it's something he play through.
Section516
Warrior
Merci380
@Merci380
We often find ourselves questioning things that have happened to us or the positions/situations we find ourselves in...how can we say we trust God if we are constantly asking WHY? It’s time for us to exercise our FAITH and push into our PURPOSE. Stop asking WHY and start asking WHAT? God, what are you teaching me, what season are you transitioning me out of, what lesson did you want me to learn, what mountain are you moving, what level are you elevating me to, what blessings are you preparing me for and what new doors are you opening? When God manifest your WHAT, you will then know the WHY! Psalm 34:4 I sought the Lord, and he answered me; he delivered me from all my fears. #WelcomeToGameDay #Texans #NoMerci #BeatKC #SundayNightFootball #59
Sounds like we'll be missing him for a bit.
EDIT. Appears this was posted prior to game. Thank you Fiasco West for the FYI.
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CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
My thoughts on Watt:
Unequal lower limb loads are often driven by dysfunction of the core/back. An extremely important factor of core stability is its ability to allow the player to control the pelvis on the hips and lower extremity in space via the stabilization functions of the abductors and rotators of the hip. Once the core/back becomes compromised.......... weakened/dysfunctional..........the knee stability is adversely affected with the knee becoming highly exposed to the risk of all injuries. With a tibial plateau fracture, in 30-40% there is an associated ACL or MCL tear, as well as meniscus damage.
A DIAGRAGM THAT I HAVE POSTED PREVIOUSLY:
I don't know that the Texans will reveal the entirety of the injuries. But if it is a significant class of plateau injury, which at this point in time, I would say that it is, especially since it is all be a given that it will require surgical hardware reconstruction........that would mean that Watt is through for the season if not for longer. Even if it is a non-displace fracture that is treated without surgery, we will not see him this season.
Keep in mind that as the fractures traverse the cartilage surfaces, loss of overlying and directly adjacent articular cartilage is inevitable.
Unequal lower limb loads are often driven by dysfunction of the core/back. An extremely important factor of core stability is its ability to allow the player to control the pelvis on the hips and lower extremity in space via the stabilization functions of the abductors and rotators of the hip. Once the core/back becomes compromised.......... weakened/dysfunctional..........the knee stability is adversely affected with the knee becoming highly exposed to the risk of all injuries. With a tibial plateau fracture, in 30-40% there is an associated ACL or MCL tear, as well as meniscus damage.
A DIAGRAGM THAT I HAVE POSTED PREVIOUSLY:
I don't know that the Texans will reveal the entirety of the injuries. But if it is a significant class of plateau injury, which at this point in time, I would say that it is, especially since it is all be a given that it will require surgical hardware reconstruction........that would mean that Watt is through for the season if not for longer. Even if it is a non-displace fracture that is treated without surgery, we will not see him this season.
Keep in mind that as the fractures traverse the cartilage surfaces, loss of overlying and directly adjacent articular cartilage is inevitable.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
The same conclusion I came up with. The tendon (as opposed to the muscle) is the most common area of tear injury, unless it is a simple contusion of the muscle by direct trauma (which I don't believe it is). We'll soon find out.
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CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
dup
Bill O'Brien said he's very concerned about Mercilus' injury. I was hoping it wasnt something major but it sounds like a tear.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
A strain IS a tear. The distinction is made as to the extent of the tear and the location (muscle vs. tendon)...........the muscle the more uncommon.
fiasco west
All Pro
Ironically, he sent this before the game but yeah it reads as if it is the response to his injury.
I'm fearing a tear like everyone else but can we get one piece of good news for the Texans today?
fiasco west
All Pro
Welp, guess not. Clowney is going to have to really step up.
Section516
Warrior
Whoops.Apologies. I should of compared the time stamp.
No, the next man up needs to step up.
fiasco west
All Pro
Definitely, but next man up can only work for so long.
When you think about all the players our defense is missing it's hard for it to have no effect. Watt, Mercilus, Cushing, Johnson... The injury bug is going after our best players on Defense.
TheMatrix31
Hall of Fame
I can't believe this.
I still can't. And I won't believe it for a very, very long time.
The two best players on this defense BOTH get season-ending injuries on the OPENING DRIVE of this game? After FINALLY feeling some sort of hope for the first time in four years? And on the 5 year anniversary of the injury that ruined Brian Cushing's career to boot?
Like seriously, what in the hell did we do to deserve this ****?
I still can't. And I won't believe it for a very, very long time.
The two best players on this defense BOTH get season-ending injuries on the OPENING DRIVE of this game? After FINALLY feeling some sort of hope for the first time in four years? And on the 5 year anniversary of the injury that ruined Brian Cushing's career to boot?
Like seriously, what in the hell did we do to deserve this ****?
Texas Jake
Rookie
At the rate we are seeing players drop due to injuries in TC, PS, regular season, by the end of the season 50 of the 53 Will probably be scrubs off the street.
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This is Houston - The football gods hate us and have been doing us wrong for decades , they like to tease us then stomp on us ..... 35-3.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Mercilus has been diagnosed as a pectoralis major tendon "tear." He will be scheduled for surgery. That fact gives me additional confirmation that the tears is not a tendon tear of <50% of the tendon, since such a tear can be treated without surgery. Physical therapy after this type of surgery is a lengthy process. Initially the goal is to gently increase shoulder range of motion without putting too much stress on the repair. Any strengthening of the pectoralis major muscle is avoided initially to prevent stress on the tendon. As the healing progresses over many weeks, full motion is restored and strengthening is gradually increased. Weight lifting and sports are usually avoided for the first few months after surgery. As the tendon heals and motion of the shoulder is restored, certain weightlifting movements are gradually started. Full return to weights and sports can take 4 to 6 months, if not longer.
Texansfan69
Noob
This team is just snake bit period. Seems every time they get something going for them, something happens like this. It happens to all teams just some more than others.
Hervoyel
BUENO!
I'm being a silver lining guy this morning and saying "So he's going to eventually return right? YESSSS!"
What about Re-injury going forward? Is it more likely to happen now?
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
There's a very good chance that if Mercilus follows his rehab faithfully, he comes back next year with little or no loss of performance.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
With the structural "tacking" of the tendon to the bone, recurrent rupture is very uncommon, unless stress on the repair is placed on the repair too soon in the rehab process. The re-rupture, if it occurs, usually occurs early on in the rehab process.
cuppacoffee
Resident Grouch
Sticking to injuries as suggested
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Texas Jake
Rookie
Let's not move off topic in the injury thread - Doc doesn't like that.Looks like the defense is toast....more ways than one.
Vrable will need to become very innovative with his schemes.
OBrien will need to pull more rabbits out of his offensive........... hat?
Gonna have to learn how to outscore the other teams now.
Anything is possible......... I suppose.
But I think I will stick with my five win season prediction as posted in the pre-season poll.
cuppacoffee
Resident Grouch
BigBull
Rookie
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
It's good news that "there was no ligament damage." However, there is assuredly meniscus and articular damage........articular damage being the greatest concern. The important thing to understand is that studies have shown that if there is accompanying ACL in tibial plateau fractures that require surgery, the prognosis/recovery no different/better than if there is no ACL tear is involved. Essentially, short of an associated catastrophic multiligament dislocation of the knee, the extent of the tibial plateau fracture(s) alone usually dictates the course and long term prognosis of the injury.
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Brisco_County
Apples and roadmaps
I remember when this happened to a Texan in the past, maybe Ryan Mallet or Mario Williams, the strange fact that stood out in case studies was that some athletes exhibited increased pectoral strength after a full recovery. Am I remembering that correctly?
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CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
You're correct. But in a number of cases, the tendon becomes weakened over time before it ruptures............so the "increased strength" is compared to the possibly compromised pre-injury state. Certainly, in most cases, the athletes that ruptures the tendon will feel stronger and test out just as strong if not a little stronger than the contralateral side.
Mentioned here:
http://www.texanstalk.com/posts/2536045/
I heard this was the type of injury that ended Charles Spencer's career.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
I posted this during the game.:
Spencer's injury which was extreme occurred Sept 2006. He had a plate with something like 8 large screws placed to reconstruct his tibia. I posted on it extensively.
Posted July 23, 2010 from this thread:
Spencer had comminuted (splintered) fractures of the tibia (large lower leg bone) which involved the joint surface of tibia, likely similar to this:
After one year, only about 15% achieve normal quadriceps muscle strength while about 30%) achieved normal hamstring muscle strength. This is because of their attachment points are on the tibia. Obviously, there is significant impairment of movement and muscle function after fracture of the tibial plateau and that the majority of patients have not "peak" recovered even by two years.
Beyond the above-mentioned basic injury, most of these injuries involve significant knee cartilage and surrounding ligament damage. These patients are usually experiencing significant pain forever. As their cartilage is usually no longer protective of underlying bone, severe arthritis bone on bone issues progressively worsen.
Overall, joint stability, especially lateral movement/torque is not well-tolerated. After four years, Spencer has reached his peak rehab point. Whether he can perform on an NFL level or not can only be determined with a workout. Because of residual loss of strength and stability, reinjury is more likely. If he is able to return, at very least, he will need to deal with the long-term predictable significant and progressive bone on bone issues.
Although odds in the long run are against him, there is still a small chance for a miracle comeback........and I would still like to see what his workout reveals.
PolarBear
Noob
Do you think the Texans will ever provide details to the extent of the damage...or as usual keep the fans in the dark? I suspect it is their prerogative and standard, given the privacy concerns of patients (JJ). Given the description of Charles Spencer's injury, I would hate to see JJ try to come back from that if his fracture and damage is as severe.
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CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
As I've said before, I don't know if we will get all the important details of his injury, at least not early on. We may be able to construct those details by his recovery course. In the past, JJ himself has filled us in with some of the details of his past injuries. We know enough about the limited details that we do have to know that if/when he returns, his performance will again not be enhanced after this injury.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
See the post above. Whether he can come back at all depends on the "type" classification of the fracture.
What we do know, as I mentioned before, is this injury will certainly not enhance his performance. In most significant cases, performance is notably and progressively affected, especially with repeated resistant stresses and impacts such as those involved in pushing against large "immovable" objects and coming down off of a leap.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
A new June 2017 article published in the Orthopedic Journal of Sports Medicine concluded that of 73 NFL linemen, 64.3% of NFL offensive and defensive linemen who undewent ACL reconstruction returned to play. Linemen who return did so at a high level, with no difference in in-game performance
In the NFL, like other sports, a lasting return to play is also influenced by the player’s pre-injury position – 20% of running backs and wide receivers never return to the NFL and for those that do return, performance drops by a third. However, because their performance is less tied to lower body speed and explosiveness, 12 out of the 13 of NFL quarterbacks studied after ACL surgeries were able to resume playing at pre-injury levels.
Another recent study published just 1 month later in July 2017 also in the Orthopedic Journal of Sports Medicine revealed that 61% of NFL defensive linemen returned, mostly those that played at higher levels prior to their injury. But those who returned to play decreased to 57% games started and 2.38 ± 1.24 solo tackles per game, while their matched controls suffered no significant decreases. NFL wide receivers and running backs, however, typically required increased time before returning to competition. It has been found that 31% of running backs and wide receivers require 12 to 15 months before returning to competition. When they did return, in contrast to NFL linemen, running backs and wide receivers had a decline of one-third in performance on return. This delay in return as well as decline in performance may be due to a heightened concern of reinjury by the athlete and physician as well as due to the intense physical demands on the knee required by these skilled offensive players. Additionally, running backs and wide receivers depend on speed, agility, and cutting, while linemen require more strength, which leads to different demands on the knee and may influence performance after ACL reconstruction.
In general, it appears that the higher the performance level of the player before ACL injury, the more likely a return. But in general also, it seems that it is much more the rule that performance level drops following return. OF course, there is always a player that can turn out to be the exception.
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TheMatrix31
Hall of Fame
Thank you for all you do, Doc.
Rich Schmidt
Myopicone
Well, good news, my daughter had that same surgery in both knees and they seem fine today, her ankle, well another story. God speed big man. I cannot even think of the frustration he must have at the moment. I remember coaching my daughter, I gave her one day to moan, every other day after that was getting better and she did. JJ may need a brief period, but he will come back. No way he wants to end his career being helped off
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
I'm happy to hear about your daughter's recovery, but I don't think that she weighs 290 lbs (or I hope she doesn't) or is 6'5" tall and post 2 back surgeries and 1 extensive core surgery, and expecting to hit or be hit by people of equal or greater size. Essentially, not knowing the exact details of your daughter''s or Watt's injuries, postoperative expectations and demands in these 2 situations are still quite different. I too would hope that JJ could make it back if that is what he wishes. However, it is more realistic and more likely that if he returns he is will be less Watt than what he has been.
Rich Schmidt
Myopicone
I don't expect Watt to ever be the same from all of his surgeries now. I was just saying I expect him to come back one more time for closure and see where he can get to.
Daughter is 105 lbs, and can get excited and hit a loud mouth at a Texans game :-)
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
I don't want this pic of him on crutches to leave a false impression with those that are not familiar with this fracture's rehab...............he will not actually place weight on that leg for ~8 weeks.
amazing80
Hall of Fame
That's what I posted it, to get your take on the type of brace and to see if you could gain any insight to what he had done.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
The brace is the typical extension blocked knee brace that is used postoperatively for these type of fractures. It does not give us more insight into the exact classification type of the fracture or the extent of associated meniscus and articular cartilage damage. I saw one of the Houston Texans chronicle sports writers give him a 3-4 mo return to sports. I would question this timeline (Of course. since there won't be any football for much longer, they can say anything).