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Injury Thread

IDEXAN

Hall of Fame
Just heard McClain on 610 say that Clowney has been running during the missed practices. Not sure how much it helps in trying to figure out what his injury might be.
I dunno,but would not think he would be running if he's got swelling of a knee or Lis franc complications injury ? So if McClains comments are accurate that would probably eliminate those possibilities ? It's always possible JD is having some family issues ? Afterall we all have those problems from time to time.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
I dunno,but would not think he would be running if he's got swelling of a knee or Lis franc complications injury ? So if McClains comments are accurate that would probably eliminate those possibilities ? It's always possible JD is having some family issues ? Afterall we all have those problems from time to time.
It doesn't rule out either. We have no idea what McClain means by "running." With either, light straight line running is possible............with custom support orthotics for Lisfranc. With mild knee fluid accumulation, compression can allow the same (and, historically, we would not usually be told if any regular fluid is being removed from the knee until way after the fact).


And family issues usually are not characterized by OB as "injury"............unless maybe he refers to Ray Rice...............
 

IDEXAN

Hall of Fame
It's difficult to imagine that nobody, zero, zippo individuals in the sports media, local or otherwise, don't have a clue about the nature of
JDs injury ? These guys have sources everywhere.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
The "mystery" continues......................


Aaron Wilson ‏@AaronWilson_NFL 4m4 minutes ago


Jadeveon Clowney expected to return to practice as soon as next week, according to sources, making progress, team being cautious with him

.......................as he is "making progress" from an event that started as "just a day given off." Now he may be back to practice "as soon as next week." It's turned out to be quite a nice little rest........hopefully it will not turn out to be a Rip Van Winkle story.
 

Hervoyel

BUENO!
I mostly just try to pretend that Clowney isn't there. It was a blown pick. I don't get too down about it because it happens to most teams now and then. It's not always their fault. Sometimes it's injuries and sometimes it's just questionable motivation. I don't dwell on it either because there's no point in doing that. He's not going anywhere and nobody is ever going to get blamed for picking a guy with the knee of an old man who doesn't contribute.


It's not hard really. He does his part to help maintain the illusion.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
Clowney is supposedly experiencing "minor" soreness of his knee. It is unlikely that he would have been essentially shut down to practice unless he had accompanying swelling.
 

Texian

Hall of Fame
Clowney is supposedly experiencing "minor" soreness of his knee. It is unlikely that he would have been essentially shut down to practice unless he had accompanying swelling.
What are the probabilities of his discomfort coming from bone on bone? or more related to other friction or irritation?
 
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CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
What are the probabilities of his discomfort coming from bone on bone? or more related to other friction or irritation?
The most likely with Clowney is from the beginnings of breakdown of the microfracture pseudo-cartilage, a situation which reverts to exposed bone..........plus or minus extension of the meniscus tear/loss following the original removal (in contrast to repair) of part of this structure which can leave him with additional bone exposure...........or cause irritation of the joint lining if flapping loose or as a separated floating fragment which also can cause erosion of cartilage and exposure of bare bone. The fact that part of his lateral meniscus (the more important of the weight-bearing menisci) was removed (we don't really know how much), as I have posted early on, can lead to some extent of joint instability, with further cartilage erosion and increased risk for ligament damage. Pain in this knee, especially as I expect swelling also being present, is not what you want to see this early in the year.
 

Texian

Hall of Fame
The most likely with Clowney is from the beginnings of breakdown of the microfracture pseudo-cartilage, a situation which reverts to exposed bone..........plus or minus extension of the meniscus tear/loss following the original removal (in contrast to repair) of part of this structure which can leave him with additional bone exposure...........or cause irritation of the joint lining if flapping loose or as a separated floating fragment which also can cause erosion of cartilage and exposure of bare bone. The fact that part of his lateral meniscus (the more important of the weight-bearing menisci) was removed (we don't really know how much), as I have posted early on, can lead to some extent of joint instability, with further cartilage erosion and increased risk for ligament damage. Pain in this knee, especially as I expect swelling also being present, is not what you want to see this early in the year.
Thanks again, Doc.
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
The most likely with Clowney is from the beginnings of breakdown of the microfracture pseudo-cartilage, a situation which reverts to exposed bone..........plus or minus extension of the meniscus tear/loss following the original removal (in contrast to repair) of part of this structure which can leave him with additional bone exposure...........or cause irritation of the joint lining if flapping loose or as a separated floating fragment which also can cause erosion of cartilage and exposure of bare bone. The fact that part of his lateral meniscus (the more important of the weight-bearing menisci) was removed (we don't really know how much), as I have posted early on, can lead to some extent of joint instability, with further cartilage erosion and increased risk for ligament damage. Pain in this knee, especially as I expect swelling also being present, is not what you want to see this early in the year.
Wouldn't it have made sense to get an, MRI of his knee prior to all the OTA, or surely training camp activity to see what condition his knee is in?

Surely waiting to see if it swells can't be the most conservative course of action.
 

Seegara

Guitar Picker, Dog Lover, Woodworker
Why don't you all just face the fact that Clowney is a lost cause? He will never serve any purpose other than spot duty, at best.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
Why don't you all just face the fact that Clowney is a lost cause? He will never serve any purpose other than spot duty, at best.
Why don't you just face the fact that we are fans and will always hope for the best for our team. Many didn't agree with the pick at the time, but have gotten behind it to support our team. Why can't you?
 

Seegara

Guitar Picker, Dog Lover, Woodworker
Why don't you just face the fact that we are fans and will always hope for the best for our team. Many didn't agree with the pick at the time, but have gotten behind it to support our team. Why can't you?
I do support the team and hope for the best, but at the same time, I insist on reality.
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Why don't you all just face the fact that Clowney is a lost cause? He will never serve any purpose other than spot duty, at best.
You do understand he's going to be on this team through 2016 regardless right? Contractually it doesn't help the team to cut him before this season. Might as well try to get something out of him.

I agree, it's silly to depend on Clowney to provide that badassery while we wait for Watt to come back. But most of us aren't expecting that.

Personally I hope to get 10 good games out of him to help us on our play off push.

It's like buying a used tire, realizing it's in worse shape than you thought, but hoping you can make it home before it blows out.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
Wouldn't it have made sense to get an, MRI of his knee prior to all the OTA, or surely training camp activity to see what condition his knee is in?

Surely waiting to see if it swells can't be the most conservative course of action.
The problem is that MRI follow up has not been found to be totally reliable in confirming status of a symptomatic post microfracture knee. The gold standard remains arthroscopy. I would not be surprised to hear that Clowney undergoes the latter if the knee symptoms and signs continue to recur.
 
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Texian

Hall of Fame
Why don't you just face the fact that we are fans and will always hope for the best for our team. Many didn't agree with the pick at the time, but have gotten behind it to support our team. Why can't you?
I think he is facing facts, just from a different perspective. Doc has pretty much said this is cause and effect and highly unlikely this will just go away on it's own. Until the cause is found and addressed the effect will likely only get worse. And as Doc also alluded to on a couple of occasions he might be at point where he might not get very much better and maybe worse.
 
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JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
Are you listening to Daydream Believer by the Monkees per chance???? :)
:D Not at this moment... I could have worded my comment better. Hoping for the best does not mean you have to ignore reality. I too went through all the disappointments of being an Oilers fan since the 60's... I'm hoping for a better result from the Texans. May not get it, but that's what being a fan is about
 

Texian

Hall of Fame
:D Not at this moment... I could have worded my comment better. Hoping for the best does not mean you have to ignore reality. I too went through all the disappointments of being an Oilers fan since the 60's... I'm hoping for a better result from the Texans. May not get it, but that's what being a fan is about
No two fans are alike.
 

Texian

Hall of Fame
I think at a core element rooting for a better result actually is what being a fan is about, for anyone.
I'm not going to start defining what is a fan, good, bad or indifferent. I will agree that a fan should always want their team to get better and improve except in those rare occasions where a loss is a positive and considered a win. If a fan wants all that and thinks the team is making bad decisions and wrong moves that are keeping the team from winning and becomes vocal and critical of the team and gets mad as hell, that doesn't make them any less of a fan either. Being a Browns fan the last five years is a pretty good example of that.
 

Mollywhopper

Facilitator
Staff member
I'm not going to start defining what is a fan, good, bad or indifferent. I will agree that a fan should always want their team to get better and improve except in those rare occasions where a loss is a positive and considered a win. If a fan wants all that and thinks the team is making bad decisions and wrong moves that are keeping the team from winning and becomes vocal and critical of the team and gets mad as hell, that doesn't make them any less of a fan either.
No argument there either.
 

DBCooper

Outlaw
Contributor's Club
I'm not going to start defining what is a fan, good, bad or indifferent. I will agree that a fan should always want their team to get better and improve except in those rare occasions where a loss is a positive and considered a win. If a fan wants all that and thinks the team is making bad decisions and wrong moves that are keeping the team from winning and becomes vocal and critical of the team and gets mad as hell, that doesn't make them any less of a fan either. Being a Browns fan the last five years is a pretty good example of that.
Except when every decision is perceived as negative and said fan starts rooting for failure so they can be "right".

Who wants to listen to Eyeore all the time.



Much more fun than you and may even have some effect.
 

DBCooper

Outlaw
Contributor's Club
Can we please stop cluttering up this INJURY Thread with petty non injury-related discussion. Take that type of discussion to ANY other thread, but leave this one for all to be able to come to it and know that they will encounter useful injury information.

Thank you
Sorry Doc, didn't realize what thread I was in
 

Texian

Hall of Fame
Can we please stop cluttering up this INJURY Thread with petty non injury-related discussion. Take that type of discussion to ANY other thread, but leave this one for all to be able to come to it and know that they will encounter useful injury information.

Thank you
I for one knew exactly where I was posting and I am guilty as charged for hijacking this thread. For that I am truly sorry and vow not do that again to this thread. Back to the injuries.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
Twitter deepi sidhu
Nick Martin & Jadeveon Clowney did not make trip to CA. Martin dealing w/ back, Clowney knee soreness. Both expected back next week per OB.
Was going to post the same.

A back problem with your starting center for any reason before the preseason schedule even begins is nothing you want to hear. The center relies heavily upon an undisturbed core to continually fend off or push off monster Ds. Whether a muscle or a disc, both are classically easy to aggravate even after significant periods of rest/rehab. An inadequate period of such will seal a course of continued problems. Hopefully Martin and his support staff play it wisely. Even then, with back problems, you never know.


Sarah Barshop ESPN Staff Writer (3 days ago)

Your daily Jadeveon Clowney update from Bill O'Brien: "I'm not concerned about [Clowney and Nick Martin missing days]." They've gotten a lot of practice time in from OTAs to where we are now. Eventually they'll be back and we'll just put them back in there."
Eventually...........thank you, OB, we're all counting on that.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
I'm going to carry this post (in response to Texian's post there......and Heath Schuler's post here) over from the Martin thread.:

Despite overall good performance last year, Martin has been reported to have been dealing with mobility limitations from his 2013 ACL even through last year. If still ongoing, he could easily end up with compensatory issues of the core (which of course includes the back). Let's hope that all of these issues are a thing of the past once the season begins.:)
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
Texans' Jadeveon Clowney, Nick Martin out for preseason opener

Clowney along with starting rookie center Nick Martin, who has a tight back, didn't make the trip for the Texans' joint practice with the San Francisco 49ers in advance of their preseason game Sunday at Levi's Stadium.

Clowney hasn't practiced all week and the Chronicle reported Wednesday that he wouldn't practice this week and would return next week with sources not authorized to speak publicly downplaying the severity of the injury for the former top overall draft pick from South Carolina.

"JD is back at home," Texans coach Bill O'Brien said. "He's got a little soreness in the knee, nothing serious. I felt like it was something where let's give him a few days here, get him with our trainer back in Houston and let him get ready for next week when New Orleans comes to town."

A second-round draft pick from Notre Dame, Martin has been sidelined for four consecutive practices. Martin is a projected starter on the depth chart.

"Nick is dealing with a little back issue," O'Brien said. "We didn't want him sitting on a plane for a few hours. I'm not concerned. Neither one of those things are life-threatening injuries."

If it was the regular season, the expectation is that Clowney would be on the field. The thinking is that it doesn't make sense to risk injury during the preseason.

And the Texans are going to be careful with several key players during the preseason, keeping in line with how O'Brien has handled things the previous two years of his tenure.

Last year, Texans defensive end J.J. Watt, nose tackle Vince Wilfork and cornerback Johnathan Joseph didn't play in any preseason games.
At least "neither one of those things are life-threatening" thank goodness..................
 

amazing80

Fire Billy O
What are the chances the Texans are being overly careful with JD knowing his future looks slim as it is. I can't imagine the guy is going to ever go any extended period of time without some soreness in his knee. So keeping him out everytime his knee hurts sounds crazy, unless you strategically do it. The work vs NO is much more important this week than the game vs SF.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
What are the chances the Texans are being overly careful with JD knowing his future looks slim as it is. I can't imagine the guy is going to ever go any extended period of time without some soreness in his knee. So keeping him out everytime his knee hurts sounds crazy, unless you strategically do it. The work vs NO is much more important this week than the game vs SF.
As I previously posted, simple isolated knee "soreness" without accompanying knee swelling is unlikely to lead to a post microfracture athlete being held out.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
I was concerned about Bouye's groin being an isolated adductor tear or part of a sports hernia complex . He will be undergoing an MRI tomorrow. Will pray that's not the case.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
I was concerned about Bouye's groin being an isolated adductor tear or part of a sports hernia complex . He will be undergoing an MRI tomorrow. Will pray that's not the case.
I am huge Bouye fan, please keep updated on this player Doc. This is his contract year and he should have good season. Joseph seems to play injured every year and confidence in his back up could allow Romeo Crennel to go to Bouye more often; keeping Joseph healthier.
 

Insideop

All Pro
Doc, I posted this on another thread and was wondering if you could comment on it....

I hope they don't rush JJ back into service. If he's out for half a season, so be it. Maybe CND can add some clarity to JJ's situation. How long should someone with his type of injury be out before coming back on the field to play? I heard an Orthopedic doctor on the radio say that, given JJ's position (DE) with all the bending, twisting, and turning that he does, should be brought along slowly and it could take several months for him to get back on the field. If they rush him back too soon it could cause long term damage!
 

Kaiser Toro

Native Mod
I mostly just try to pretend that Clowney isn't there. It was a blown pick. I don't get too down about it because it happens to most teams now and then. It's not always their fault. Sometimes it's injuries and sometimes it's just questionable motivation. I don't dwell on it either because there's no point in doing that. He's not going anywhere and nobody is ever going to get blamed for picking a guy with the knee of an old man who doesn't contribute.


It's not hard really. He does his part to help maintain the illusion.
Are you implying that we should Use Your Illusion?
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Doc, I posted this on another thread and was wondering if you could comment on it....
Not to be rude, but if you go hack and look at earlier posts in this thread, or if you can find the "Jj Watt has back surgery" thread, you'll find Doc'sopinion.

I guarantee you he's going to refer you to a post he's already written.
 

Kaiser Toro

Native Mod
Some folks live in the real world while others enjoy the comforts of Fantasy Land.
There should be no comfort in fantasy land, if the leading/winning owner does their job, and destroys their opponents natural love for the game.

The real world has comfort.

As for Clowney, I never thought he would play to the first contract investment during the first three years. However, I remain hopeful that he can be of considerable value at the end of the contract.

Measuring him on where he was picked is asinine since he has a dollar value attached to him on an annual basis (contract), there is a dynamic market for his position, and teams "field" 53. That is where you measure him. Measure Smith and OB on the pick itself.

In my opinion, he is upside, and not a ton of risk at the moment. They will retire or renew the asset when it is time.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
Doc, I posted this on another thread and was wondering if you could comment on it....

I hope they don't rush JJ back into service. If he's out for half a season, so be it. Maybe CND can add some clarity to JJ's situation. How long should someone with his type of injury be out before coming back on the field to play? I heard an Orthopedic doctor on the radio say that, given JJ's position (DE) with all the bending, twisting, and turning that he does, should be brought along slowly and it could take several months for him to get back on the field. If they rush him back too soon it could cause long term damage!
I've posted on this subject in the Injury thread. but to comment again specifically to his return. His return will depend on how extensive the disk affected his nerve(s) and which and how much atrophy of the muscles being fed by these nerves (buttocks, hamstrings, quads, calves?????) has occurred since he played with it for so long. Besides this, everyone tend to minimize spinal surgeries performed through "minimally invasive incisions." It's not so much how long the surgical scar is, it's more what structures are you having to cut through..........and the most important structures are the back muscles. In you or me, or even Arian Foster, these may be 1/2 to 1 inch thickness. In someone built like JJ, this could be 2 1/2 inches or more. As these back muscles (an important part of the core, which JJ has already been dealing with having undergone bilateral sports hernias) are stressed to the max when exercising, especially when twisting bending and turning which is a constant with a DE, pain and reflex spasm is easily triggered and will lead to trying to compensate for movements that cannot comfortably be performed................leading to those dreaded compensatory injuries to the lower limbs. All of these bad things are much more likely if a player pushes himself or is pushed back onto the field before he is ready. JJ may try to play early, but because of the aforementioned his is not likely to look like JJ until well into the second half of the season.......if he doesn't injure himself. As I've posted in the past, with his recent cumulative core injuries, there is a possibility that we never see the same JJ we have come to always heavily depend on to carry the D.
 


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