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[Hypothetical] Good Mills, Average Texans

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
Only thing stopping Schaub from being elite was his milquetoast, underthrow the ball because it’s easier to catch attitude.

It wasn’t a talent problem. Matt was smart & truly read defenses.

If Mills can read defenses like Schaub but brought just a little play maker attitude he’ll be one of the better QBs in the league for a long time
Mills has some of the same short comings as Schaub who had weapons around him. In today's nfl, especially in the nfc, you have to have a special talent in trait. If he reaches Schaub or Cousins peak, he's just good enough to lose with.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
There are outliers - Joe Flacco comes to mind.
That Ravens team won because they had an elite D - iow, building the team around a decent QB can reap the big reward.
Brad Johnson is another...;)
Question - was Matt Stafford considered elite before last season?
Flacco had elite traits with his size and arm talent. They won that sb because Flacco was on fire, not necessarily the defense.
 

xtruroyaltyx

Hall of Fame
Mills has some of the same short comings as Schaub who had weapons around him. In today's nfl, especially in the nfc, you have to have a special talent in trait. If he reaches Schaub or Cousins peak, he's just good enough to lose with.
One of the things I liked about Mills coming out of college, and even in the few times I saw him last year, was how quickly he got rid of the ball.

He makes good pre snap reads. I also really liked his accuracy/ball placement.

I think these two things were probably Peyton Manning’s greatest traits.
of course Manning did these things at GOAT level.

I think if Mills can build on these two traits as well as building on live reads he could reach elite status. I think Mills arm is plenty strong enough. I think he throws a better ball than Schaub did.

I hope Mills tears it up this year and leaves little to no doubt that he’s the guy going forward….it’s a bit unfortunate for him to be put on the clock like this but I really think he’s got to show out or the Texans will go qb early in the draft next year.
 

DocBar

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
It will be a "partially" informed decision but ultimately they're still guessing about how the prospect pans out and still hoping that what Mills has shown them is going to translate into wins when the team around him gets better. What if they get better but Mills regresses? He wouldn't be the first one to do so. They'll know the measurables and the work ethic which is great but not how he handles success for example (not something that's been in big supply in Houston during his time here).
It's always interesting to see how players do once opponents get enough film on them. Can the coaching staff and player counter the opponents countermoves?
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
And counter to that is tackling ball carrier at or behind LOS and that happened a lot. Now will our off season counter to that work?
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Mills has some of the same short comings as Schaub who had weapons around him. In today's nfl, especially in the nfc, you have to have a special talent in trait. If he reaches Schaub or Cousins peak, he's just good enough to lose with.
Really?

Does Mills have a stronger arm and more mobility than Schaub.

Does Joey B have these special traits?
 

beerlover

Hall of Fame
Really?

Does Mills have a stronger arm and more mobility than Schaub.

Does Joey B have these special traits?
Yes and yes but the game has really evolved since the days of Schaub and there in lies the rub. Best thing for Mills is Texans finally got themselves a real OL coach in Warhop who likes to play smash mouth football and run the rock. Teams are not going to look forward to playing Texans anymore. They know it’s a physical battle, punch to the face and gut, so Mills main thing just needs to focus on game management and on occasion release the kraken arm he has.
 

Mangler

Hall Of Famer
Mills has some of the same short comings as Schaub who had weapons around him. In today's nfl, especially in the nfc, you have to have a special talent in trait. If he reaches Schaub or Cousins peak, he's just good enough to lose with.
:um: Because of posts like these, one can easily tell who has been watching the Texans since 2002, and who just started watching the Texans in 2013.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Mills has some of the same short comings as Schaub who had weapons around him. In today's nfl, especially in the nfc, you have to have a special talent in trait. If he reaches Schaub or Cousins peak, he's just good enough to lose with.
Schaub’s only shortcoming was that he was gutless. Well, a little aggressiveness would have overcome a lot of shortcomings
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Best thing for Mills is Texans finally got themselves a real OL coach in Warhop who likes to play smash mouth football and run the rock.
Hopefully Mills can realize, on the field, the plays the coaches theorize on the sideline.

How many times did we see a bunch formation that couldn’t get a free release, or how many times did we see two receivers in the same spot?

The QB has a huge effect on how the play actualitizes in real time
 

Texansballer74

The Marine
Hopefully Mills can realize, on the field, the plays the coaches theorize on the sideline.

How many times did we see a bunch formation that couldn’t get a free release, or how many times did we see two receivers in the same spot?

The QB has a huge effect on how the play actualitizes in real time
Different regime and different offensive playbook, schemes and philosophy. We should see a totally different offense going forward.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Different regime and different offensive playbook, schemes and philosophy. We should see a totally different offense going forward.
My point is that a lot of the success of a QB is making the design of the play work for him. Going beyond physical skills. If he can be elite between the ears, his physical skills will be more than adequate
 

mws

Rookie
I know I'm going against the grain here but I think Schaub played well enough before his injury that the Texans could have won with him if they had just had even a middle of the pack defense. I'm not saying he was elite but he was competent.

2007 192-289 66.4% 2241 9 TD 9 INT
2008 251-380 66.1% 3043 15 TD 10 INT
2009 396-583 67.9% 4770 29 TD 15 INT
2010 365-574 63.6% 4370 24 TD 12 INT
2011 178-292 61.0% 2479 15 TD 6 INT
2012 350-544 64.3% 4008 22 TD 12 INT
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Yes and yes but the game has really evolved since the days of Schaub and there in lies the rub. Best thing for Mills is Texans finally got themselves a real OL coach in Warhop who likes to play smash mouth football and run the rock. Teams are not going to look forward to playing Texans anymore. They know it’s a physical battle, punch to the face and gut, so Mills main thing just needs to focus on game management and on occasion release the kraken arm he has.
Hopefully you're right and if they stay injury free next year, I don't see them winning more than 8-9 games if everything breaks right for them. People need to understand this is a rebuilding project. Mills/Lopez/Jordan were a start, this years draft adds more.

What some are debating is will Mills be the best QB in his draft. So would say Lawrence , but even Lawrence said Mills was one of the best QB he saw in his class/camps. Guys got talent, no doubt about this. Question is he going to be the future of the franchise and nobody knows the answer to that question. From what I've seen, I'm a believer. Frankly it amazes me that he's as good at reading defenses as he has given how little he's played. Give him a run game like he had against the Chargers and let the good times roll
 

beerlover

Hall of Fame
Hopefully you're right and if they stay injury free next year, I don't see them winning more than 8-9 games if everything breaks right for them. People need to understand this is a rebuilding project. Mills/Lopez/Jordan were a start, this years draft adds more.

What some are debating is will Mills be the best QB in his draft. So would say Lawrence , but even Lawrence said Mills was one of the best QB he saw in his class/camps. Guys got talent, no doubt about this. Question is he going to be the future of the franchise and nobody knows the answer to that question. From what I've seen, I'm a believer. Frankly it amazes me that he's as good at reading defenses as he has given how little he's played. Give him a run game like he had against the Chargers and let the good times roll
Im not worried if he is or was best in class or not.

Just want position competently addressed.

Now doubt league is more competitive than ever so 6-7 wins solid progress.

Because of that Charger game and losing 3 out 4 end of season, missing playoffs, it’s a whole new defense and now with depth.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Im not worried if he is or was best in class or not.

Just want position competently addressed.

Now doubt league is more competitive than ever so 6-7 wins solid progress.

Because of that Charger game and losing 3 out 4 end of season, missing playoffs, it’s a whole new defense and now with depth.
After watching the Chargers game with you, there's little doubt in my mind that as weapons are added over the next couple of years that Mills can be the guy. Just liking the Green/Metchie picks. Like Jordan too, but if Mayer or one of the Georgia TE's are available in next yrs draft, I would love for that to be the pick. I would love to see Mills with a top 10 TE. I think then you will really see how good Mills is. I mean, Schaub had OD. Give Mills the weapons he needs. Next year is a high end TE draft class.
 

The Pencil Neck

Hall of Fame
His shortcoming was realization the game hinged on his performance which led to high level of anxiety, consciously or not, looked down receivers and steered his throws which created his pick 6 legacy.
What created his pick 6 legacy was losing the ability to drive the ball after his injury and defenses recognizing it.

Prior to his injury, there was a stat show during one of the games that showed pre-injury Shaub had a passer rating of over 120 against the blitz. Most teams didn't even bother... until after his injury when he could not get the balls out with the same velocity. And teams learned all they had to do was show him the blitz and he'd throw a floater to his hot receiver that was easy to pick off.

Before the injury he had his limitations, but after his injury he degraded until he had no right being on the field.

At least, that's the way I remember it.
 

beerlover

Hall of Fame
After watching the Chargers game with you, there's little doubt in my mind that as weapons are added over the next couple of years that Mills can be the guy. Just liking the Green/Metchie picks. Like Jordan too, but if Mayer or one of the Georgia TE's are available in next yrs draft, I would love for that to be the pick. I would love to see Mills with a top 10 TE. I think then you will really see how good Mills is. I mean, Schaub had OD. Give Mills the weapons he needs. Next year is a high end TE draft class.
would have loved Breece Hall for this offense, will see how Dameon Pierce develops? Spent some time studying him too, somewhat similar to Ben Tate, explosive good forward lean, hard to arm tackle but still north and south style, not elusive. Far as TE position think I’d rather target established free agent, hit the ground running. Know they went (top names) early in free agency but some excellent value 2nd wave.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
would have loved Breece Hall for this offense, will see how Dameon Pierce develops? Spent some time studying him too, somewhat similar to Ben Tate, explosive good forward lean, hard to arm tackle but still north and south style, not elusive. Far as TE position think I’d rather target established free agent, hit the ground running. Know they went (top names) early in free agency but some excellent value 2nd wave.
As of right now I want Mayer/Bijan in the 1st.. Real weapons for Mills to work with. Unless they get a really high pick and can draft Anderson. These are the special guys in next yrs draft.

I like your Ben Tate comparison with Pierce. Tate could've been special but was blocked by Foster and struggled to stay healthy. Good news is a Foster isn't blocking Pierce and hopefully he stays healthy for the next 4-5 yrs
 

OptimisticTexan

2022 Rebuilding Block 2 / Go Texans
After watching the Chargers game with you, there's little doubt in my mind that as weapons are added over the next couple of years that Mills can be the guy. Just liking the Green/Metchie picks. Like Jordan too, but if Mayer or one of the Georgia TE's are available in next yrs draft, I would love for that to be the pick. I would love to see Mills with a top 10 TE. I think then you will really see how good Mills is. I mean, Schaub had OD. Give Mills the weapons he needs. Next year is a high end TE draft class.
The TE I have on my watch list:

TE- Sam LaPorta (Iowa). 6-4 @ 249 lbs. Had his coming out party last season and should be set for another similar or better season. Solid blocker in all phases and was utilized much more in the passing game last season which made him more than just a blocking TE.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
The TE I have on my watch list:

TE- Sam LaPorta (Iowa). 6-4 @ 249 lbs. Had his coming out party last season and should be set for another similar or better season. Solid blocker in all phases and was utilized much more in the passing game last season which made him more than just a blocking TE.
I had LaPorta in some of my mocks in the last draft when I thought he was coming out early. A really good player, reminds me of OD.
 

Texansphan

Hall of Fame
What created his pick 6 legacy was losing the ability to drive the ball after his injury and defenses recognizing it.

Prior to his injury, there was a stat show during one of the games that showed pre-injury Shaub had a passer rating of over 120 against the blitz. Most teams didn't even bother... until after his injury when he could not get the balls out with the same velocity. And teams learned all they had to do was show him the blitz and he'd throw a floater to his hot receiver that was easy to pick off.

Before the injury he had his limitations, but after his injury he degraded until he had no right being on the field.

At least, that's the way I remember it.
Fair commentary.
That's the difference between good and bad Schaub.
 

Texansphan

Hall of Fame
would have loved Breece Hall for this offense, will see how Dameon Pierce develops? Spent some time studying him too, somewhat similar to Ben Tate, explosive good forward lean, hard to arm tackle but still north and south style, not elusive. Far as TE position think I’d rather target established free agent, hit the ground running. Know they went (top names) early in free agency but some excellent value 2nd wave.
Who do you like that's still available?
 

beerlover

Hall of Fame

Lucky

Trust Me. I Know What I'm Doing.
Staff member

OptimisticTexan

2022 Rebuilding Block 2 / Go Texans
I had LaPorta in some of my mocks in the last draft when I thought he was coming out early. A really good player, reminds me of OD.
I’d also like to add RB- Zach Charbonnet (UCLA) to my watch list. Could be a solid addition to Pierce in the backfield. He’s also a complete RB…..does it all.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Which Schaub?

Strong arm and mobility? Yes and yes.

Wow. That's really over the top. Dude had Haynesworth try to rip his foot off. I'd cut him a little slack.
Mills has a much better arm and more mobility than Schaub ever had

Mills arm is stronger than Joey B's. It's debatable that Mills is more mobile than Joey B and I'm a Joey B fan. I just wish Mills had the weapons Joey B has to work with.
 

beerlover

Hall of Fame
I’d also like to add RB- Zach Charbonnet (UCLA) to my watch list. Could be a solid addition to Pierce in the backfield. He’s also a complete RB…..does it all.
Mills could use more of a dual receiving threat. Charbonnet would have been viable option if they hadn't selected Pierce. For example Isaiah Spiller who is excellent out of the backfield (Chargers #123). Jets moved in front of Texans in the 2nd for Breece Hall, but say Texans took Hamilton #13 they wouldn't need Petri as much #37 and taken RB Kenneth Walker (Seattle #41) tremendous YAC possibilities in any offense.

Moving on to 2023 Draft, lets hope Pierce pans out, but most definitely need to hit position again. For obvious reasons always favor the Horned Frogs (TCU) LaDainian Tomlinson (Chargers) they have former North Shore five star prospect Zach Evans. Small sample size but someone to keep close eye on.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Mills could use more of a dual receiving threat. Charbonnet would have been viable option if they hadn't selected Pierce. For example Isaiah Spiller who is excellent out of the backfield (Chargers #123). Jets moved in front of Texans in the 2nd for Breece Hall, but say Texans took Hamilton #13 they wouldn't need Petri as much #37 and taken RB Kenneth Walker (Seattle #41) tremendous YAC possibilities in any offense.

Moving on to 2023 Draft, lets hope Pierce pans out, but most definitely need to hit position again. For obvious reasons always favor the Horned Frogs (TCU) LaDainian Tomlinson (Chargers) they have former North Shore five star prospect Zach Evans. Small sample size but someone to keep close eye on.
I'm a big Charbonnet guy. I think he's a well rounded RB. Evans is very talented, but is a bit of a head case.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Pre-Lisfranc Schaub is being vastly underrated. Mills has a very long way to go reach Schaub level.

Blowing some serious smoke here.
True but he's got the ability to not only reach Schaub's level. But he's got the physical ability to become better than Schaub.

Are you saying Joey B's arm is significantly stronger than Mills, if at all? Joey B's arm is good enough but not a Stafford/Mahomes/Allen type arm. If so we will have to agree to disagree.
 

Carr Bombed

Hall of Fame
True but he's got the ability to not only reach Schaub's level. But he's got the physical ability to become better than Schaub.

Are you saying Joey B's arm is significantly stronger than Mills, if at all? Joey B's arm is good enough but not a Stafford/Mahomes/Allen type arm. If so we will have to agree to disagree.
It's not stronger..
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Pre-Lisfranc Schaub is being vastly underrated. Mills has a very long way to go reach Schaub level.
I liked Schaub. But he had no killer instinct. Saying he undeethrew balls because they were easier to catch is my evidence. We complained back then that was why Andre didn’t score many TDs.

& I thought Andre would love Keenum because Keenum put the ball out in front of him.

I agree we don’t give Schaub enough credit for what he did bring to the table. He was better than good & got hurt before he had a “complete” team built around him. Poor dude.

But he was gutless & that was all on him.

Underthrowing because it was easier to catch.
 

Speedy

Former Yeller Dweller
I liked Schaub. But he had no killer instinct. Saying he undeethrew balls because they were easier to catch is my evidence. We complained back then that was why Andre didn’t score many TDs.

& I thought Andre would love Keenum because Keenum put the ball out in front of him.

I agree we don’t give Schaub enough credit for what he did bring to the table. He was better than good & got hurt before he had a “complete” team built around him. Poor dude.

But he was gutless & that was all on him.

Underthrowing because it was easier to catch.
OK, say what you want about him underthrowing, whatever, but how exactly was he gutless? Dude was leaving chunks of ear on the field and still throwing 4 TD passes.
 


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