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Hard Knocks: Houston Texans 2015

Double Barrel said:
I was listening to one of the Hard Knock's producers in a couple of interviews, and he kept stressing the DRAMA of the show. That it's not about football itself, but the human drama of it all. He said it is the highest rated NFL Films show for a female audience, in no small part because of the way they frame 300+ hours a week of film into one hour and spin all that drama. They actually try to create perceptions of good guys and villains and by the fifth episode, redeem the "villain". He said some players get so upset that they refuse to speak to the film crews on Wednesday mornings because of the way the edits portray these players.
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This is the problem I have with documentary filmmaking in general -- Real life most often does not fall into a three act structure with protagonists and antagonists. Real life is mundane, but these filmmakers are invested in capturing a narrative whether one exists or not.

How much money is a filmmaker going to get for future projects when he goes back to the producer and says, "You know, there just wasn't a story there." Return on investment demands that you create the story.

I remember watching a documentary critical of Michael Moore, and there was an interview with Penn Jillette where he made two accurate observations: 1) Most of the real story happens outside of the camera, but the camera selectively captures a sliver of information, and 2) There is always a tendency for filmmakers to allow the ends to justify dishonest means.

I point these things out as someone who has a love/hate for the genre. I've shot and edited documentaries for film classes, and I've seen plenty of fantastic and honest documentaries, but the way that I qualify enjoyment is to remain sharply skeptical of each one.

Playoffs said:
Didn't think of this, but it was brought up that Payton might have cancelled as non-cooperation with the league in a type of payback for his suspension for bountygate. And who else to team up with on that than the Patriots.
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I think there's something to that. I don't know about the Patriots part, but I'm sure that Payton wants to do the league no favors. After all, allowing Hard Knocks to film you is nothing but a favor to the league, and as it has been said, there is no upside to being on the show.
 
Watt says he picked up Dolphins’ snap count from Hard Knocks
Posted on September 11, 2012

Do not ask for whom the bell tolls. The bell tolls for Hard Knocks.

Texans defensive end J.J. Watt delivered a potential death blow to the show on Tuesday, explaining on NBC Network’s Pro Football Talk that he picked up the Dolphins’ snap count by watching the show.

He was a little sheepish and guarded when explaining it to co-host Erik Kuselias, saying that the same information can be picked up from the preseason game broadcasts. But Watt said that it helped.

And that one line could provide future coaches and G.M.’s with the ammunition they need to push back against an owner who decides he wants to be a carnival barker.

Dolphins coach Joe Philbin said in June that the choice to do Hard Knocks was a football decision. Yes, it was. A bad football decision.

It did nothing to help the team win. It routinely televised embarrassing and sensitive moments involving players, driving a wedge between the organization and its most important employees and potentially making it harder (and costlier) to attract free agents to South Florida.

Though we love the show, no owner who wants to establish a football program that consistently wins games should ever want to do it. There’s nothing to gain, and plenty to lose.​
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
As long as they don't confuse us with the Titans after this season ends.
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That is annoying. But it's not as bad as the color commentator of a nationally televised Western Conference game calling your star player the name of the opposing teams star three times in a row.

& no one corrects him.
 
thunderkyss said:
That is annoying. But it's not as bad as the color commentator of a nationally televised Western Conference game calling your star player the name of the opposing teams star three times in a row.

& no one corrects him.
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It's hard for those of us who grew up with PROFESSIONAL GRADE announcers who did their homework as the trend to fly-by announcing with little or no preparation becomes more prevalent.
 
Kinda fits in here...

Always be aware
John Harris|Texans Analyst

Earlier in the week Texans QB Brian Hoyer did an interview on Pro Football Talk. He mentioned the fact that he didn’t want Hard Knocks to give away any competitive advantages as perhaps it did back in the 2012 season when JJ Watt watched the Dolphins' Hard Knocks episodes.

Watt picked up on the Dolphins snap count watching Hard Knocks or so he claimed. Now, Battle Red Ladies before you come at me with pitchforks blazing, I’m not saying JJ’s lying or embellishing the truth. In fact, it’s more probable than not that it’s true.

Can media/TV give an opponent an advantage, slight though it may be? Yes and yes.

One of my favorite coaching/football stories was when Dallas Cowboys head coach Jimmy Johnson, sitting in his coach’s office before Super Bowl XXVIII, spied the Buffalo Bills running a shovel pass in the background of the ESPN Super Bowl pre-game show. He got his coaching staff together and asked if they had ever seen Buffalo use the shovel pass. When the staff said no, the coaches devised a plan to stop it if the Bills used it. They did and the Cowboys stuffed it and forced a key fumble on the play.

One that hits a bit closer to home was electronic media and not TV, but sitting in my hotel room last year prior to the Pittsburgh Monday night game, I stumbled upon an article by a Steelers beat writer. It was one of those quick hits and notes type of things - I’m a huge fan of those articles and read them all the time. Quick bullet points about an injury here or a player doing something good or bad in practice. The last note was a couple of sentences on how the coaches gave a long look to rookie Martavis Bryant in practice leading up to the game v. the Texans and to not be surprised if he’s active and in the game plan.

Unfortunately, the writer was dead on.

Bryant hadn’t been in the game until the second quarter. On his first play, I remember thinking they’re going to him right now. Ben Roethlisberger lofted a deep ball in Bryant’s location and it turned into Bryant’s first career catch and first career touchdown.​
 
Playoffs said:
Kinda fits in here...

Always be aware
John Harris|Texans Analyst

Earlier in the week Texans QB Brian Hoyer did an interview on Pro Football Talk. He mentioned the fact that he didn’t want Hard Knocks to give away any competitive advantages as perhaps it did back in the 2012 season when JJ Watt watched the Dolphins' Hard Knocks episodes.

Watt picked up on the Dolphins snap count watching Hard Knocks or so he claimed. Now, Battle Red Ladies before you come at me with pitchforks blazing, I’m not saying JJ’s lying or embellishing the truth. In fact, it’s more probable than not that it’s true.

Can media/TV give an opponent an advantage, slight though it may be? Yes and yes.

One of my favorite coaching/football stories was when Dallas Cowboys head coach Jimmy Johnson, sitting in his coach’s office before Super Bowl XXVIII, spied the Buffalo Bills running a shovel pass in the background of the ESPN Super Bowl pre-game show. He got his coaching staff together and asked if they had ever seen Buffalo use the shovel pass. When the staff said no, the coaches devised a plan to stop it if the Bills used it. They did and the Cowboys stuffed it and forced a key fumble on the play.

One that hits a bit closer to home was electronic media and not TV, but sitting in my hotel room last year prior to the Pittsburgh Monday night game, I stumbled upon an article by a Steelers beat writer. It was one of those quick hits and notes type of things - I’m a huge fan of those articles and read them all the time. Quick bullet points about an injury here or a player doing something good or bad in practice. The last note was a couple of sentences on how the coaches gave a long look to rookie Martavis Bryant in practice leading up to the game v. the Texans and to not be surprised if he’s active and in the game plan.

Unfortunately, the writer was dead on.

Bryant hadn’t been in the game until the second quarter. On his first play, I remember thinking they’re going to him right now. Ben Roethlisberger lofted a deep ball in Bryant’s location and it turned into Bryant’s first career catch and first career touchdown.​
Click to expand...


Maybe that is why they keep Pancakes around. He is good at putting out terrible information, confuses opposing teams
 
Watt, Wilfork and Cushing will all provide great sound bites. It will be nice follow Jadeveon Clowney's progression coming off his rehab. He's so softly spoken even off camera it's going to seem like an interesting change of pace for fans not around the Texans locker room every day to finally hear Clowney speak his mind about what his goals are and how hard it's been for him not to be on the field.

In some ways this is going to remind me of that 2001 Ravens team, the first season of hard knocks, that was loaded with a great defense filled with veteran superstars and young stars as well. The only difference is they were coming off a Super Bowl championship and aiming for a repeat. The Texans are merely coming off a 9-7 season in which they just missed the playoffs. I don't think the team's preparation will change with cameras all around them.

Offensively, we may learn quite a bit about some of these guys. We already know that Arian Foster and Duane Brown talk a lot but Hopkins is a guy I'd like to see emerge as the team's best offensive player. He had a great season last year but with Andre Johnson gone he has a chance to put up even bigger numbers and perhaps make a pro bowl. Ryan Mallett will have his hands full trying to beat out Brian Hoyer for the starting quarterback job. I'd like to see our young tight ends and wide receivers really show some hunger and fight this training camp. They all have a lot to prove.

The Houston Texans were HBO's dream team to film. I'm not sure they could have had a better team picked even if they were allowed to film any of the 32 NFL teams. It helps when you have the best player in the game in J.J. Watt but there are a ton of interesting storylines to focus on with this team.
 
Bulls on Parade said:
Watt, Wilfork and Cushing will all provide great sound bites. It will be nice follow Jadeveon Clowney's progression coming off his rehab. He's so softly spoken even off camera it's going to seem like an interesting change of pace for fans not around the Texans locker room every day to finally hear Clowney speak his mind about what his goals are and how hard it's been for him not to be on the field.

In some ways this is going to remind me of that 2001 Ravens team, the first season of hard knocks, that was loaded with a great defense filled with veteran superstars and young stars as well. The only difference is they were coming off a Super Bowl championship and aiming for a repeat. The Texans are merely coming off a 9-7 season in which they just missed the playoffs. I don't think the team's preparation will change with cameras all around them.

Offensively, we may learn quite a bit about some of these guys. We already know that Arian Foster and Duane Brown talk a lot but Hopkins is a guy I'd like to see emerge as the team's best offensive player. He had a great season last year but with Andre Johnson gone he has a chance to put up even bigger numbers and perhaps make a pro bowl. Ryan Mallett will have his hands full trying to beat out Brian Hoyer for the starting quarterback job. I'd like to see our young tight ends and wide receivers really show some hunger and fight this training camp. They all have a lot to prove.

The Houston Texans were HBO's dream team to film. I'm not sure they could have had a better team picked even if they were allowed to film any of the 32 NFL teams. It helps when you have the best player in the game in J.J. Watt but there are a ton of interesting storylines to focus on with this team.
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I fear you will be sorely disappointed. Hard Knocks, as someone up-thread posted, tends to follow the bubble guys, not the stars.
 
ObsiWan said:
I fear you will be sorely disappointed. Hard Knocks, as someone up-thread posted, tends to follow the bubble guys, not the stars.
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True, but Clowney's rehab will be a story, I'm sure all the DL will be shown quite a bit
 
Playoffs said:
Kinda fits in here...

Always be aware
John Harris|Texans Analyst

Earlier in the week Texans QB Brian Hoyer did an interview on Pro Football Talk. He mentioned the fact that he didn’t want Hard Knocks to give away any competitive advantages as perhaps it did back in the 2012 season when JJ Watt watched the Dolphins' Hard Knocks episodes.

Watt picked up on the Dolphins snap count watching Hard Knocks or so he claimed. Now, Battle Red Ladies before you come at me with pitchforks blazing, I’m not saying JJ’s lying or embellishing the truth. In fact, it’s more probable than not that it’s true.

Can media/TV give an opponent an advantage, slight though it may be? Yes and yes.

One of my favorite coaching/football stories was when Dallas Cowboys head coach Jimmy Johnson, sitting in his coach’s office before Super Bowl XXVIII, spied the Buffalo Bills running a shovel pass in the background of the ESPN Super Bowl pre-game show. He got his coaching staff together and asked if they had ever seen Buffalo use the shovel pass. When the staff said no, the coaches devised a plan to stop it if the Bills used it. They did and the Cowboys stuffed it and forced a key fumble on the play.

One that hits a bit closer to home was electronic media and not TV, but sitting in my hotel room last year prior to the Pittsburgh Monday night game, I stumbled upon an article by a Steelers beat writer. It was one of those quick hits and notes type of things - I’m a huge fan of those articles and read them all the time. Quick bullet points about an injury here or a player doing something good or bad in practice. The last note was a couple of sentences on how the coaches gave a long look to rookie Martavis Bryant in practice leading up to the game v. the Texans and to not be surprised if he’s active and in the game plan.

Unfortunately, the writer was dead on.

Bryant hadn’t been in the game until the second quarter. On his first play, I remember thinking they’re going to him right now. Ben Roethlisberger lofted a deep ball in Bryant’s location and it turned into Bryant’s first career catch and first career touchdown.​
Click to expand...

And this is why I'm all about the Texan's NOT being transparent. I'm all for that. You never can tell when a bit of information that may seem random or useless will be able to be used by a coach or coaching staff to their advantage.

Especially injury reports.
 
tQUOTE="Double Barrel, post: 2494776, member: 1643"]Yep, I agree. I was thinking the same thing when the Saints announced the news. They are now trying to downplay the Hard Knocks angle (most likely due to a phone call from NFL, Inc.), but the truth is that it certainly played a huge factor. The Texans and Saints would still be scheduled to practice if not for Hard Knocks.

I was listening to one of the Hard Knock's producers in a couple of interviews, and he kept stressing the DRAMA of the show. That it's not about football itself, but the human drama of it all. He said it is the highest rated NFL Films show for a female audience, in no small part because of the way they frame 300+ hours a week of film into one hour and spin all that drama. They actually try to create perceptions of good guys and villains and by the fifth episode, redeem the "villain". He said some players get so upset that they refuse to speak to the film crews on Wednesday mornings because of the way the edits portray these players.

I can't say I won't watch, but at the same time, acting like it has absolutely no impact on pre-season preparations is just being naive about it. I'm just hoping this team can weather the storm and be better in spite of it all.[/QUOTE]

This is all about expanding the brand.

The McNair's don't care about all of that other stuff.

Payton isn'y going to do God'ell any favors after Bountygate. It cost Payton millions and frankly I don't blame him for this position.
 
Playoffs said:
Saints cancel joint practices...

Tania Ganguli ‏@taniaganguli
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Saints out, 'Skins in... we travel.

wattrg3-e1410119657985.jpg
 
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infantrycak said:
It's funny how folks complain about Dallas owning the state outside of Houston, lack of national media attention, etc. and then complain if McNair markets the brand.
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I've never complained because I don't give a **** what they do with the brand. If nobody outside of Houston is a fan of the Texans, it means nothing to me. Winning lots of games and championships is what attracts good players to an organization, not jersey sales. And that's all most of us fans want: a winning football team, not a popularity contest.

The Texans have always been big on marketing their brand, so it is a a little surprising that McNair took so long to get his franchise on Hard Knocks.
 
DB, that comment was directed at you - just spinning off.

I don't see marketing and winning as mutually exclusive.
 
Double Barrel said:
Winning lots of games and championships is what attracts good players to an organization, not jersey sales. And that's all most of us fans want: a winning football team, not a popularity contest.
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A little OT, but I think it's more than that. The HC & GM need to be able to sell a vision. I think that's how we got Vince Wilfork. I think OB, Crennel, & Vrabel convinced Wilfork to come to Houston to be a part of something instead of just retiring if New England wasn't going to pay him.

Outside of a money grab (Ed Reed), or straight up outbidding everyone else, I think Wilfork is our first "post expansion team" FA signing.
 
infantrycak said:
DB, that comment was directed at you - just spinning off.

I don't see marketing and winning as mutually exclusive.
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It's all good, man. I figured it was a piggy-back of sorts.

I always figured the best marketing is winning games.

And I'm not knocking McNair for marketing his brand. It's an entertainment business and to be expected, especially when the cost of doing business is so high. At this point, though, I've got all the Texans merch that I could ever possibly need, so winning a lot of games for many seasons is really all that's missing.
 
DBCooper said:
Win Super Bowls
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Once we receive some consistently good quarterback play that won't be such a stretch. This team went 9-7 and barely missed the playoffs with one of the worst QB situations in the league last year. Between Ryan Mallett and Brian Hoyer we may have something good. I'm not sure how much Tom Savage has progressed but he looked pretty good in a game at Indianapolis last year before he got hurt. He didn't have a lot to work with in that game. It's hard to evaluate anybody when they only play a game or two. Mallett and Savage have to stay healthy, as does Hoyer. All three were injured last year.

At least Watt is ready for those red zone touches.
Vince Wilfork has a nice touch on those lob passes.

 
infantrycak said:
DB, that comment was directed at you - just spinning off.

I don't see marketing and winning as mutually exclusive.
Click to expand...

Lets talk more about this when the Texans are a consistent winning franchise.

I personally don't care what the McNair's do with their team as long as they consistently put a team capable of winning a SB on the field. Over a decade of fail in that regard. But hey, we got HK/Tailgaiting/cookin food/drinkin beer down. (Good times aint we lucky we got em?)
 
steelbtexan said:
Lets talk more about this when the Texans are a consistent winning franchise.

I personally don't care what the McNair's do with their team as long as they consistently put a team capable of winning a SB on the field. Over a decade of fail in that regard. But hey, we got HK/Tailgaiting/cookin food/drinkin beer down. (Good times aint we lucky we got em?)
Click to expand...

just cut-and-paste "Patriots/Ravens/Seahawks" as your default reply and save time...
 
thunderkyss said:
A little OT, but I think it's more than that. The HC & GM need to be able to sell a vision. I think that's how we got Vince Wilfork. I think OB, Crennel, & Vrabel convinced Wilfork to come to Houston to be a part of something instead of just retiring if New England wasn't going to pay him.

.
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I think he came here because of those coachs, it was not a vision thing they sold him. He knew them and felt comfortable with them and being an FLA native, probably liked the sunbelt climate and location of Houston.
And as far as marketing the Texans, lets be serious here - as far as the national media and really the national perception from the nations NFL fan base there's only one Texans team and it's not in Houston. Another prominent NFL team from Texas would be redundant for most of them. Personally I don't really care that much. Whether they are recognized or supported much at all outside of Houston is not that important to me.
 
I suspect Wilfork was persuaded at least in part with being able to have another elite DL to play alongside as his career winds down. He was the MAN that team schemed for and now they have to concentrate on a team mate. I think he realizes this is his best shot at going out on top rather than fading into obscurity. I think he hopes to be the common element in two different Superbowl Teams.
 
sandman said:
just cut-and-paste "Patriots/Ravens/Seahawks" as your default reply and save time...
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Deep and insightful thoughts, how do you propose that the Texans get to this level? Or is getting to this level that important to you as a fan?
 
steelbtexan said:
Deep and insightful thoughts, how do you propose that the Texans get to this level? Or is getting to this level that important to you as a fan?
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How about you explain how having a rich tailgating experience for the fans in the parking lot and the food/drink they enjoy inside the stadium have any correlation to the product that they are putting on the field. You are taking two completely non-associated aspects of the Texans organization and trying to assert that one (lack of Lombardi trophies) exists because of the other (fan game-day experience).

As far as getting to that level goes, you continue to provide an example of a one and done (Ravens) and johnny-come-lately (Seahawks) into an argument about being "consistent" SB contenders. I would appreciate your definition of "consistent", but I expect that it will be something completely subjective that fits your narrative about Uncle Bob.
 
steelbtexan said:
Deep and insightful thoughts, how do you propose that the Texans get to this level? Or is getting to this level that important to you as a fan?
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WHEN, not if, the Texans become one of the elite teams over time, it will not be by copying the path of others, but creating a new path of their own. I don't know what it is about Houston that tries to emulate others rather than create it's own story. It started with Whitmire and her love for all things Atlanta and it made me sick then and has ever since.

We are TEXAN, not anybody else.

Incidentally, there was a reason Bum and Earl (Texans) were one of the most popular teams Houston has ever had, both here and nationally. We had our own identity!
 
I think it would be irresponsible for the McNairs to ignore their brand until they win a Super Bowl.
 
Marshall said:
WHEN, not if, the Texans become one of the elite teams over time, it will not be by copying the path of others, but creating a new path of their own. I don't know what it is about Houston that tries to emulate others rather than create it's own story. It started with Whitmire and her love for all things Atlanta and it made me sick then and has ever since.

We are TEXAN, not anybody else.

Incidentally, there was a reason Bum and Earl (Texans) were one of the most popular teams Houston has ever had, both here and nationally. We had our own identity!
Click to expand...


Agreed,

I'm talking about winning consistently, when you do this you will develop your own brand. It appears the McNair's are putting developing their own brand 1st and the product on the field 2nd. It's been this way since the franchise's inception. Example: Carr and his stupid haircut gimmicks that the Texans org was on board with.

HK is just another example of this. Good thing is if BOB wins big against huge odds all will be rainbows and sunshine in Texans talk land.
 
sandman said:
How about you explain how having a rich tailgating experience for the fans in the parking lot and the food/drink they enjoy inside the stadium have any correlation to the product that they are putting on the field. You are taking two completely non-associated aspects of the Texans organization and trying to assert that one (lack of Lombardi trophies) exists because of the other (fan game-day experience).

As far as getting to that level goes, you continue to provide an example of a one and done (Ravens) and johnny-come-lately (Seahawks) into an argument about being "consistent" SB contenders. I would appreciate your definition of "consistent", but I expect that it will be something completely subjective that fits your narrative about Uncle Bob.
Click to expand...

I just think the Texans org puts more into the gameday experience/furthering the brand than they do in putting a winning product on the field. I know you disagree with this line of thinking and yet as fans we are still hoping and wishing the Texans were as successful as the teams you listed above. How many yrs have the Ravens been in the playoffs and SB's? Wouldn't you like the Texans to be as good as these teams?

BTW, the Seahawks are far from a johnny- come lately type of team. 3 playoffs and 2 SB's later and a bright future as one of the best teams in the NFL by adding great talent to their team and being vigilant with the cap so they can retain the talent they want to keep. If that's johnny- come lately sign me up. How about you?

You didn't answer what you would do to reach the level of these teams?
 
Agreed about the Seahawks. Although they're in a tough spot trying to extend Russell Wilson's contract. The recent Cam Newton deal by the Panthers likely didn't do them any favors. The only difference from the Seahawks' recent success (two Super Bowl appearances in a row) and the Texans last two seasons (9-7 and 2-14 - No playoffs either year), coming off our two straight divisional round appearances, is that we didn't get lucky with our quarterback situation.

They found Russell Wilson in the freakin' third round back in the 2012 draft for crying out loud. Why can't we have that type of luck? I do recall that 2-14 year when we out-played the Seahawks here in Houston for 2.5 quarters. That was the game they had no business winning but ended up stealing it in overtime off the Sherman pick six off Schaub. I remember jumping out of my seat when Cushing destroyed Marshawn Lynch and caused a fumble recovery. We were dominating them. I've never been impressed with the Seahawks myself. But I give them credit for drafting well. That's for sure. Their talent level is as good as any, if not better, than any other team in the NFL. And they added a stud TE in Jimmy Graham this past off-season. Scary!
 
steelbtexan said:
I just think the Texans org puts more into the gameday experience/furthering the brand than they do in putting a winning product on the field. I know you disagree with this line of thinking and yet as fans we are still hoping and wishing the Texans were as successful as the teams you listed above. How many yrs have the Ravens been in the playoffs and SB's? Wouldn't you like the Texans to be as good as these teams?

BTW, the Seahawks are far from a johnny- come lately type of team. 3 playoffs and 2 SB's later and a bright future as one of the best teams in the NFL by adding great talent to their team and being vigilant with the cap so they can retain the talent they want to keep. If that's johnny- come lately sign me up. How about you?

You didn't answer what you would do to reach the level of these teams?
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You think. It's an opinion and I respect it, but it is still just your opinion. As a fan I will never say "Bob doesn't care about winning because David Carr didn't get a haircut". You have a narrative, and you are trying to fit past events into it. That is your prerogative, but if you put it on a message board, be prepared for people to respond.

Seattle was 23-41 in the four years before they lucked into a 3rd round pick in Wilson and have had three very good years. THREE. That is the new model for consistent? They still have a losing record for the history of their franchise (remember that knock on McNair?) and went 21 years at one point without a playoff win (sort of like them Cowboys you said were a model team because Jerry signs thugs). They had a Dom Caperesque four years before Wilson, but three good years and they are now the model of a consistent franchise. OK.

I think the Texans are doing exactly what they need to do. Kubiak replaced Capers because they needed to change their culture from an expansion franchise. OB replaces Kubiak because they needed to instill a culture that being a good team was not enough and to shoot for greatness. I see that in two years OB has reshaped not only the types of players on this team, but the attitude of players as well. I see a defense that finished the year strong and got better in the off-season with key additions and subtractions. I see young O-linemen coming into OTA's in the best shape of their lives with something to prove. I see Foster literally being the best teammate he can be in OTA's by showing up in shape and healthy. I see what could be a credible QB competition. I see leadership both among the players and coaches that was absent in the previous regime. I like where this organization is going overall and think that they are setting themselves up for future success.

You can't plan on a 6th round Brady or a 3rd round Wilson being who they've become. And it completely lacks credibility to insinuate that either of those picks by their respective organizations were done with the intent to make them starters.
 
steelbtexan said:
Lets talk more about this when the Texans are a consistent winning franchise.

I personally don't care what the McNair's do with their team as long as they consistently put a team capable of winning a SB on the field. Over a decade of fail in that regard. But hey, we got HK/Tailgaiting/cookin food/drinkin beer down. (Good times aint we lucky we got em?)
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I know what you're saying, man, but I think it comes down to simple business tactics. When a sports franchise is unable to field a consistently winning team year in and year out, they have to figure out other incentives for fans to fill the seats and buy the beer and merchandise. That's where marketing comes into play, and the NRG GameDay Experience® is born to provide fans with a fun filled entertain diversion.

Bud Adams never had that part figured out, so when the Oilers would go into suck mode (and it happened often, let's not lie about it), the Astrodome would not fill up with fans and we would end up with home game blackouts. This is one of the primary reasons why we lost the Oilers. Fans only showed up when they won, so that diehard loyalty of enjoying the gameday experience during the lean times never existed like it does with the Texans.

All we can hope for now as Texans fans is that the learning curve for the McNairs eventually yields results in smart decisions to hire the right people for the football side of things. I personally think he's on the right path with O'Brien, but that's me being an optimistic fan and hoping for the best.
 
sandman said:
You think. It's an opinion and I respect it, but it is still just your opinion. As a fan I will never say "Bob doesn't care about winning because David Carr didn't get a haircut". You have a narrative, and you are trying to fit past events into it. That is your prerogative, but if you put it on a message board, be prepared for people to respond.

Seattle was 23-41 in the four years before they lucked into a 3rd round pick in Wilson and have had three very good years. THREE. That is the new model for consistent? They still have a losing record for the history of their franchise (remember that knock on McNair?) and went 21 years at one point without a playoff win (sort of like them Cowboys you said were a model team because Jerry signs thugs). They had a Dom Caperesque four years before Wilson, but three good years and they are now the model of a consistent franchise. OK.

I think the Texans are doing exactly what they need to do. Kubiak replaced Capers because they needed to change their culture from an expansion franchise. OB replaces Kubiak because they needed to instill a culture that being a good team was not enough and to shoot for greatness. I see that in two years OB has reshaped not only the types of players on this team, but the attitude of players as well. I see a defense that finished the year strong and got better in the off-season with key additions and subtractions. I see young O-linemen coming into OTA's in the best shape of their lives with something to prove. I see Foster literally being the best teammate he can be in OTA's by showing up in shape and healthy. I see what could be a credible QB competition. I see leadership both among the players and coaches that was absent in the previous regime. I like where this organization is going overall and think that they are setting themselves up for future success.

You can't plan on a 6th round Brady or a 3rd round Wilson being who they've become. And it completely lacks credibility to insinuate that either of those picks by their respective organizations were done with the intent to make them starters.
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See: where we disagree is the only reason those teams are what they are is because of Brady/Wilson, IYO

IMHO the reason both of those teams are good is because of the FO/Scouting/Coaching. Areas where the Texans are lacking and have been slow to change. Example: Why does Bobby Grier have a job in the org?
 
steelbtexan said:
See: where we disagree is the only reason those teams are what they are is because of Brady/Wilson, IYO

IMHO the reason both of those teams are good is because of the FO/Scouting/Coaching.
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This stuff is not binary. Without a good team, Brady and Wilson wouldn't win SBs. Without Brady and Wilson, those 'good teams' wouldn't have won them either.
 
steelbtexan said:
See: where we disagree is the only reason those teams are what they are is because of Brady/Wilson, IYO

IMHO the reason both of those teams are good is because of the FO/Scouting/Coaching. Areas where the Texans are lacking and have been slow to change. Example: Why does Bobby Grier have a job in the org?
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infantrycak said:
This stuff is not binary. Without a good team, Brady and Wilson wouldn't win SBs. Without Brady and Wilson, those 'good teams' wouldn't have won them either.
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This.
 
infantrycak said:
This stuff is not binary. Without a good team, Brady and Wilson wouldn't win SBs. Without Brady and Wilson, those 'good teams' wouldn't have won them either.
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And you know this how?

Are you saying any team that has Brady would be a SB contender?

The GM/HC has more to do with the Pats contender status. IMHO

Didn't the Seahawks beat the Saints in a playoff game the yr before Wilson was drafted?
 
JB said:
it's like the never ending story when steelB decides to take part in a conversation
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Instead of doing a driveby tell me why you think the QB position is more important than who's running/coaching an org?
 
steelbtexan said:
And you know this how?
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Watching them play. We'll that and the common sense that possibly the GOAT QB isn't fungible.

Are you saying any team that has Brady would be a SB contender?
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Given the record of hall of fame QBs getting their teams to the playoffs and shots at the SB absent stupid extremism yes. Put Brady on the 2013 Texans and we go to the playoffs. Put him on the Texans 2011-12 there might very well be a Lombardi on Kirby.

The GM/HC has more to do with the Pats contender status. IMHO
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Doesn't contradict anything I said.

Didn't the Seahawks beat the Saints in a playoff game the yr before Wilson was drafted?
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No. They didn't make the playoffs.
 
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