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Game 7: The Greenbay Packers.....No Joke!

IDEXAN said:
Sorry to be the contrarian among Texans fans but I think our team is atleast a year from being
a legit SB contender, which is why I see us @ 5-2 Monday morning.
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Agreed. Even Romo is calling out the lack of protection of Stroud, and championship teams don't commit as many penalties as this one.

I say this right after Hewitt gifted the Packers a TD with a ridiculous unnecessary roughness.
 
welsh texan said:
Heard a stat during the broadcast last week that our D was giving up a league best 52% accuracy, which had dropped to 50% at one point in the game, good to top the league, next best D was 57%.

So for all the niggles about not consistently turning the ball over or sucking the QB, we’ve actually been the hardest team to pass on by some margin.

Let’s see if that holds up with our injuries and against a decent QB.
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DocBar said:
KC & Seattle are the 2 loudest stadiums in the country and they are open air.
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Brisco_County said:
Agreed with the call to go for 2. Even if they don't make it.
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No freaking holes and we all know he lacks vision to break it down & change direction.

Texans need to be more aggressive adding RB to the stable who can. Akers could but has lost his explosivenesses. Thats what teams with Super Bowl visions do, Minnesota, San Francisco look @ KC they have a bunch yet pulled Kareem Hunt off the couch, think he scored 2 TD’s against 9ers today. That and their interior OL has three studs. We have basically two rookies and washed up 10 year vet.

This needs addressed immediately.
 
beerlover said:
No freaking holes and we all know he lacks vision to break it down & change direction.

Texans need to be more aggressive adding RB to the stable who can. Akers could but has lost his explosivenesses. Thats what teams with Super Bowl visions do, Minnesota, San Francisco look @ KC they have a bunch yet pulled Kareem Hunt off the couch, think he scored 2 TD’s against 9ers today. That and their interior OL has three studs. We have basically two rookies and washed up 10 year vet.

This needs addressed immediately.
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How would you suggest the IOL be addressed immediately?
 
steelbtexan said:
How would you suggest the IOL be addressed immediately?
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The more I watch the games, the more I see the Texans OL woes falling at the feet of both tackles. If the IOL has to be addressed….I believe the pieces are on the roster and may need nothing more than be moved around until the right IOL unit is on the field. Contract money really messes up the tackles b/c I would sit one of them immediately and give their snaps to Fisher. I’ve enjoyed watching Fisher develop in live games far more than watching Tunsil and Howard regress as highly paid veterans.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
The more I watch the games, the more I see the Texans OL woes falling at the feet of both tackles. If the IOL has to be addressed….I believe the pieces are on the roster and may need nothing more than be moved around until the right IOL unit is on the field. Contract money really messes up the tackles b/c I would sit one of them immediately and give their snaps to Fisher. I’ve enjoyed watching Fisher develop in live games far more than watching Tunsil and Howard regress as highly paid veterans.
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I'm look ing for specifics and the OT's aren't the problem.
 
Texansballer74 said:
All of them are the problem. They’re not communicating with each other at all. They’re all blowing assignments on a regular.
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That's because you have a rookie center and basically a rookie LG . Can they learn? I'm beginning to think not.
 
Texansballer74 said:
All of them are the problem. They’re not communicating with each other at all. They’re all blowing assignments on a regular.
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I saw a video clip breakdown of one of the sacks. The line blocked to the right, the RB looked to help to the right. The blitz came from the left. 1st question, who told the line to block right? 2nd question who failed to identify the blitzing DB? Third, who's responsibility is the free blitzer coming from the left when the line was told to block to the right?
 
steelbtexan said:
That's because you have a rookie center and basically a rookie LG . Can they learn? I'm beginning to think not.
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Watch the game….when Tunsil’s man stunts, what is Tunsil doing? Tunsil is the Pro Bowl veteran on the OL, why hasn’t he figured out a way to communicate with Green so the stunts, that are extremely successful, can at least be contested? I see Tunsil working to a certain degree and then he’s done. To me, that’s not the way one of the top paid LT’s in the NFL should be playing the game. He has zero tenacity to his game. Just a soft marshmellow riding his assignments around an arc, which is about it. I never saw what other folks saw in Tunsil when he was at Miami, and haven’t been sold on him since OB traded for him. OB gave up far too much in trade assets and Caserio has given up too much in money and cap space.

Tunsil and Howard have to be the leaders on the OL and unfortunately they are not the leaders. It’s almost as if they are waiting for one of the young IOL to pick up the leadership mantle.

It also bothered me as to why the Dolphins gave up on one of the best LT’s in the game…..in some folks eyes, not mine. I felt like they played OB for a sucker.
 
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thunderkyss said:
I saw a video clip breakdown of one of the sacks. The line blocked to the right, the RB looked to help to the right. The blitz came from the left. 1st question, who told the line to block right? 2nd question who failed to identify the blitzing DB? Third, who's responsibility is the free blitzer coming from the left when the line was told to block to the right?
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I could say that the failure should be Strausser’s to own, but once they’re on the playing field….I expect the veterans (Tunsil, Howard, & Mason) to be the chief communicators. I’ve become more accustomed to seeing Tunsil and Howard with their hands on their hips versus seeing them destroy the defense until the whistle blows.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
Watch the game….when Tunsil’s man stunts, what is Tunsil doing? Tunsil is the Pro Bowl veteran on the OL, why hasn’t he figured out a way to communicate with Green so the stunts, that are extremely successful, can at least be contested? I see Tunsil working to a certain degree and then he’s done. To me, that’s not the way one of the top paid LT’s in the NFL should be playing the game. He has zero tenacity to his game. Just a soft marshmellow riding his assignments around an arc, which is about it. I never saw what other folks saw in Tunsil when he was at Miami, and haven’t been sold on him since OB traded for him. OB gave up far too much in trade assets and Caserio has given up too much in money and cap space.

Tunsil and Howard have to be the leaders on the OL and unfortunately they are not the leaders. It’s almost as if they are waiting for one of the young IOL to pick up the leadership mantle.

It also bothered me as to why the Dolphins gave up on one of the best LT’s in the game…..in some folks eyes, not mine. I felt like they played OB for a sucker.
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I know you don't like Tunsil, but let me ask you these 3 things

1. If Tunsil wasn't paid like a top 5 LT would you have an issue with his play?

2. Is he protecting Strouds blindside and giving Stroud adequate time to throw ?

Last year he didn't seem to have these issues playing with 3 different LG's. What has changed about his game? Or could it be the basically rookie C, LG are struggling?

At least you admit that this really comes down to your expectations and those expectations were set years ago and they were set by what was given up in the trade for him.
 
Tunsil is paid like filet mignon and plays like hamburger helper. There isn’t a single dawg in that oline room. Juice might be closest but he is apparently making a lot of mental errors.

I would make three changes pronto to see if it helps:

1) can Strausser. This team lacks acccountability. DeMeco needs to start holding guys accountable and it starts here.

2) Insert Patterson and bench Juice. This is not a long term demotion. Juice is is the better physical player, but I feel like Patterson has a better handle on assignments and protections. Juice needs more seasoning. Let him watch and learn for now.

3) Insert Fischer at RT. I’m not bold enough at this point to put a rookie in at LT, but Howard is also underperforming. I think Blake will be better at run blocking, but probably not as good at pass blocking, but he needs a game or two to get his sea legs and then they can determine if they go back to Howard.

At the very least, this shakes up the status quo and puts guys on notice that if you don’t pick it up, your leash is short.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
Watch the game….when Tunsil’s man stunts, what is Tunsil doing? Tunsil is the Pro Bowl veteran on the OL, why hasn’t he figured out a way to communicate with Green so the stunts, that are extremely successful, can at least be contested? I see Tunsil working to a certain degree and then he’s done. To me, that’s not the way one of the top paid LT’s in the NFL should be playing the game.
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IMO, if our GM, who we all think is the beesknees keeps paying him like a top LT & his peers continue to vote him as a top OT in the league... I would question my analysis of his play if I'm not seeing anything close to a top OT in the NFL.

Maybe he's not as good as they think. That's a valid opinion. But to think he is a major contributor to the problems we're seeing on our OL, there's just too big of a disconnect.
 
Brisco_County said:
Agreed. Even Romo is calling out the lack of protection of Stroud, and championship teams don't commit as many penalties as this one.

I say this right after Hewitt gifted the Packers a TD with a ridiculous unnecessary roughness.
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I've addressed this before but they absolutely do.

Kansas play very undisciplined football. Their trick is they drag their opponents down with them into that land and then beat them with experience.

49ers were also a heavily penalized team and that's the most recent Superbowl we all watched.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
The more I watch the games, the more I see the Texans OL woes falling at the feet of both tackles. If the IOL has to be addressed….I believe the pieces are on the roster and may need nothing more than be moved around until the right IOL unit is on the field. Contract money really messes up the tackles b/c I would sit one of them immediately and give their snaps to Fisher. I’ve enjoyed watching Fisher develop in live games far more than watching Tunsil and Howard regress as highly paid veterans.
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Totally disagree. I think the tackles have been average to good while the interior has been a sloppy mess for quite some time. They simply can't pick up stunts or loops which is incredible considering that's what they play against all training camp because Demeco's defense is predicated on those concepts. Late shifts and loading the line and having players drop out also totally confuses them. They just seem totally locked in on who their pre-snap read is and can't ever adjust post snap.
 
thunderkyss said:
IMO, if our GM, who we all think is the beesknees keeps paying him like a top LT & his peers continue to vote him as a top OT in the league... I would question my analysis of his play if I'm not seeing anything close to a top OT in the NFL.

Maybe he's not as good as they think. That's a valid opinion. But to think he is a major contributor to the problems we're seeing on our OL, there's just too big of a disconnect.
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You have remember OB the gm evaluated Tunsil, now it’s Caserio’s fault for not recognizing Tunsil sucks. lol
 
thunderkyss said:
IMO, if our GM, who we all think is the beesknees keeps paying him like a top LT & his peers continue to vote him as a top OT in the league... I would question my analysis of his play if I'm not seeing anything close to a top OT in the NFL.

Maybe he's not as good as they think. That's a valid opinion. But to think he is a major contributor to the problems we're seeing on our OL, there's just too big of a disconnect.
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Totally agree with this. I can buy arguments Tunsil's play has declined or someone thinks he's overpaid, but Tunsil is still easily the best o-lineman on this team and he's far from being the biggest problem.
 
Sweech said:
Totally agree with this. I can buy arguments Tunsil's play has declined or someone thinks he's overpaid, but Tunsil is still easily the best o-lineman on this team and he's far from being the biggest problem.
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As the tone setter and leader…yes he is the biggest problem on the line and it’s not close. He’s the mouse that’s eating all the cheese, but when the cat finds the mouse den, he is off hiding in the corner all fat and happy and leaving the other mice to fight the cat.

Just imagine if OB had made the smart move and traded for Trent Williams instead of Tunsil. Williams is a junkyard dog. Tunsil is a French poodle with bows in her hair.

Yes…Tunsil is by far the biggest issue and it’s schocking that more people poeple don’t understand the attitude of a line set by the leader is of utmost importance
 
steelbtexan said:
I know you don't like Tunsil, but let me ask you these 3 things

1. If Tunsil wasn't paid like a top 5 LT would you have an issue with his play?

2. Is he protecting Strouds blindside and giving Stroud adequate time to throw ?

Last year he didn't seem to have these issues playing with 3 different LG's. What has changed about his game? Or could it be the basically rookie C, LG are struggling?

At least you admit that this really comes down to your expectations and those expectations were set years ago and they were set by what was given up in the trade for him.
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PFF ranks Tunsil 7th but doubtfull that includes his salary or impact of false starts. Howard ranked somewhere in the low 20’s and most overpaid underperforming RT in the NFL. Still focus of pressure, stunts or otherwise come straight up the middle.

Two things coaching & scheme are not clicking, why? Stressel just bad and overmatched for job, players not buying in or unteachable? This is for DeMeco to decide. Simplist & quickest way would be for him to bring in someone from time in San Franciso who wants the job. Doubtful Ryan could pry Chris Foerster away but maybe Joe Graves assistant OL coach? If not now, in the off season for sure. If it’s on the player(s) one simple infusion of an experienced bad ass like Cleveland Browns OG Joel Bitonio would immediately start @ LG and sit Keynon Green.

Just some ideas for SBT​

 
beerlover said:
PFF ranks Tunsil 7th but doubtfull that includes his salary or impact of false starts. Howard ranked somewhere in the low 20’s and most overpaid underperforming RT in the NFL. Still focus of pressure, stunts or otherwise come straight up the middle.

Two things coaching & scheme are not clicking, why? Stressel just bad and overmatched for job, players not buying in or unteachable? This is for DeMeco to decide. Simplist & quickest way would be for him to bring in someone from time in San Franciso who wants the job. Doubtful Ryan could pry Chris Foerster away but maybe Joe Graves assistant OL coach? If not now, in the off season for sure. If it’s on the player(s) one simple infusion of an experienced bad ass like Cleveland Browns OG Joel Bitonio would immediately start @ LG and sit Keynon Green.

Just some ideas for SBT​

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7th is too high for Tunsil, but not for the reasons you listed. I still believe he's a top 10 OT and coming off knee surgery, plus then injuring his ankle has hindered his ability in pass pro. It's also affected his ability to get to the 2nd level in the run game. Although Mixon has done his best running over the last few weeks.

The money he makes doesn't matter at all to me nor should it to you. Is he a top tier LT is all that should matter and he's still been top 10 IMHO. The false starts are always bothersome, he's really only had a couple of bad games with this happening. The Vikes game in particular was bad, but that's not what cost the Texans that game. So this doesn't really bother me either. Tunsil has improved on the false start issues the last few games and if a couple of false start penalties cost your team a game then you probably didn't deserve to win that game anyways.

The issues with the OL iMHO is you've got a young center who's starting there for the 1st time and an LG who has only started 4-5 games 2 yrs ago. There's a learning curve. Plus Mason while still very good isn't the player he used to be. He plays at a high level for say 3 qtrs but his play falls off later in games. He should be subbed in for every 3-4 series so that he's fresh and playing well when he's in the game. You know what I think of Howard and the run game would be better with Fisher at RT IMHO

I would like to see a trade for Bitonio and Newsome. Bitonio would give the team 2 vet starting OG's to help their young center. Put Fisher at RT and suddenly the run game and abilty to pickup stunts would improve IMHO. Heck even if Howard is in there this should improve although Howard is a detriment to run game.

I will give you what I would do and what I think they will do with no trades.

Tunsil/Kendrick Green/Patterson/Mason/Fisher, these guys proved they could pickup stunts, make OL calls last yr. (Minus Fisher)

What I think they will do if they make any changes at all.

Tunsil/Patterson or Kendrick/Scruggs/Mason/Howard.

I also would like a trade for Newsome because he's a playmaker and would make an awesome slot CB, who could play outside until Lassiter makes it back.


Thoughts?
 
steelbtexan said:
7th is too high for Tunsil, but not for the reasons you listed. I still believe he's a top 10 OT and coming off knee surgery, plus then injuring his ankle has hindered his ability in pass pro. It's also affected his ability to get to the 2nd level in the run game. Although Mixon has done his best running over the last few weeks.

The money he makes doesn't matter at all to me nor should it to you. Is he a top tier LT is all that should matter and he's still been top 10 IMHO. The false starts are always bothersome, he's really only had a couple of bad games with this happening. The Vikes game in particular was bad, but that's not what cost the Texans that game. So this doesn't really bother me either. Tunsil has improved on the false start issues the last few games and if a couple of false start penalties cost your team a game then you probably didn't deserve to win that game anyways.

The issues with the OL iMHO is you've got a young center who's starting there for the 1st time and an LG who has only started 4-5 games 2 yrs ago. There's a learning curve. Plus Mason while still very good isn't the player he used to be. He plays at a high level for say 3 qtrs but his play falls off later in games. He should be subbed in for every 3-4 series so that he's fresh and playing well when he's in the game. You know what I think of Howard and the run game would be better with Fisher at RT IMHO

I would like to see a trade for Bitonio and Newsome. Bitonio would give the team 2 vet starting OG's to help their young center. Put Fisher at RT and suddenly the run game and abilty to pickup stunts would improve IMHO. Heck even if Howard is in there this should improve although Howard is a detriment to run game.

I will give you what I would do and what I think they will do with no trades.

Tunsil/Kendrick Green/Patterson/Mason/Fisher, these guys proved they could pickup stunts, make OL calls last yr. (Minus Fisher)

What I think they will do if they make any changes at all.

Tunsil/Patterson or Kendrick/Scruggs/Mason/Howard.

I also would like a trade for Newsome because he's a playmaker and would make an awesome slot CB, who could play outside until Lassiter makes it back.


Thoughts?
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Only care about having flexibility to go out in free agency, like Casero did this past offseason because he had the cap room. At some point he has to rebalance the salary spread sheet in order to fit Sting & CJ long term contracts and still have room to improve in free agency. Going forward both Tunsil & Howard are cap killers from here on, so don’t expect either to be in Texans long term plans.
 
beerlover said:
Only care about having flexibility to go out in free agency, like Casero did this past offseason because he had the cap room. At some point he has to rebalance the salary spread sheet in order to fit Sting & CJ long term contracts and still have room to improve in free agency. Going forward both Tunsil & Howard are cap killers from here on, so don’t expect either to be in Texans long term plans.
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It wont cost much to move on from Howard after this yr. Now isn't the time to worry about the things you're worrying about. Cutting Howard and the cap going up will allow for Sting to stay and they probably will be trading Tunsil when Stroud comes due.

If they wanted to they could go the Browns/Saints route when it comes to managing the cap. There are always going to be 5-6 top tier paid players on a team at premium positions. QB/CB/LT/Edge/in the Texans case WR. This can be fit under the cap.
 
steelbtexan said:
It wont cost much to move on from Howard after this yr. Now isn't the time to worry about the things you're worrying about. Cutting Howard and the cap going up will allow for Sting to stay and they probably will be trading Tunsil when Stroud comes due.

If they wanted to they could go the Browns/Saints route when it comes to managing the cap. There are always going to be 5-6 top tier paid players on a team at premium positions. QB/CB/LT/Edge/in the Texans case WR. This can be fit under the cap.
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Don’t mind paying those who fit the culture just not those who just look out for themselves (own careers).
 
beerlover said:
Don’t mind paying those who fit the culture just not those who just look out for themselves (own careers).
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Agreed I don't want guys who can play but won't because it might hurt their career if they play in the playoffs on a knee that needs surgery. Or a guy who only thinks of himself and won't play on a bum ankle.

Fortunately Tunsil doesn't fit these stereotypes. He's proven he will play hurt whether it hurts his career or not. There's a reason his teammates voted him team captain whether some like it or not. Face it he's the best ol on the team by a good margin.
 
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