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First Round Trade
- Thread starter JWLCASPER
- Start date
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
Blockbuster trade sends Morgan to Reds | Baseball Hall of Fame
Lee May Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Rookie Status & More | Baseball-Reference.com
Check out the latest Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Rookie Status & More of Lee May. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, draft status, bats, throws, school and more on Baseball-reference.com
www.baseball-reference.com
Joe Morgan Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Rookie Status & More | Baseball-Reference.com
Check out the latest Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Rookie Status & More of Joe Morgan. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, draft status, bats, throws, school and more on Baseball-reference.com
www.baseball-reference.com
Joe Morgan played 9 yrs before the trade. He helped them, but its not like the stros traded him for prospects. May finished top 10 in MVP the year of the trade and had 3 good years on a trash Astros team. It's not like the Astros were good with Morgan either. They went 500 or better in the 3 seasons with May and 0 times in 9 seasons with Morgan
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maverick512000
Hall of Fame
Disagree, on paper the Morgsn trade looked like Astros won the trade and some even thought they fleeced the Reds. Nobody, anywhere came even close to thinking Texans won or even got fair value in the Hopkins trade.
It was such a bad trade that if you simulated the trade in Madden it would come back and say Texans had rejected the trade. We literally could have gotten better value if they had ran the trade through a video game to test, that's how bad it was.
Texansphan
Football connoisseur
Texans took on a lot of "trash" last off season and look how well that turned out.
I think they are confident they have some guys they like and they can help improve or play better in their system.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
Think you missed part of the conversation. We are talking about OB trading Hopkins for a half eaten sandwhich not Caserio seeing diamonds in the rough and DeMeco making those diamonds shine.
Mangler
Toro de España
That’s exactly what I’ve been telling my buddies. We are just a few pieces away! If we can hit at DT come draft time we may be able to get away with what we at secondary and focus on getting that good RB, and a good WR. It’s doable!
Texansphan
Football connoisseur
I think the team is looking to have more potential than last season already and the coaches and core players have experience in this system now plus another full off-season program to practice.
The rest of this off season plus the draft should just be putting on the finishing touches roster wise anyway.
They trade a league MVP MorganBlockbuster trade sends Morgan to Reds | Baseball Hall of Fame
baseballhall.org
Lee May Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Rookie Status & More | Baseball-Reference.com
Check out the latest Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Rookie Status & More of Lee May. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, draft status, bats, throws, school and more on Baseball-reference.comJoe Morgan Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Rookie Status & More | Baseball-Reference.com
Check out the latest Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Rookie Status & More of Joe Morgan. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, draft status, bats, throws, school and more on Baseball-reference.com
Joe Morgan played 9 yrs before the trade. He helped them, but its not like the stros traded him for prospects. May finished top 10 in MVP the year of the trade and had 3 good years on a trash Astros team. It's not like the Astros were good with Morgan either. They went 500 or better in the 3 seasons with May and 0 times in 9 seasons with Morgan
A Cy Young candidate, Billingham
A gold glove CF, Geronimo
A Starting solid 3B Menke and a Reserve OF Armbrister
For May, who was a solid upper tier 1B, Tommy Helms, who was at the end of his career, and a utility player Jimmy Stewart, might as have been the actor Jimmy Stewart.
I'm going with the worst trade in history.
Checkout my response to Lee big down thread.
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badboy
Hall of Fame
Interesting mock:
Note* if Bears choose Olu Fashanu after landing FA Wr, Nabers could fall into trade range of Houston and/or Thomas could be there at 22. We could move up for him.
Note* if Bears choose Olu Fashanu after landing FA Wr, Nabers could fall into trade range of Houston and/or Thomas could be there at 22. We could move up for him.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
May has almost 500 hrs in an era where it was scarce. I will admit, that traded was the year I was born, but if you read enough articles, nobody, I mean nobody thought the Astros lost that trade. Maybe Morgan complimented Rose,Bench, and all them dudes better, but its not like it was the Bagwell trade. He was 30 when the trade happened and the Astros were sorry with him. The Texans traded away a future hall of famer on a good contract for trash. The teams around the NFL didn't even know he was available. If the league knew, they could've gotten a couple of 1st rd picks for him vs David Johnson who was about to be cut.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
85% of the time I did that mock, Thomas was there. Nabers isn't making it that far, he has too many gifts. Thomas has a lot gifts also, I just think the board might push him down some.
Probably not past Jacksonville
You obviously didn't read the article that was posted for you...
from that link:
“If the United States had traded Dwight Eisenhower to the Germans during World War II, it wouldn’t have been much different than sending (Lee) May and (Tommy) Helms to Houston,” wrote Enquirer sports reporter Bob Hertzel that day.
The two-deck Enquirer headline announced that “Reds, Houston trade eight, Helms, May, Stewart dealt” – leaving readers to discover what the Reds received in return in the body of the story.
“Most observers at the winter meetings believe that the Reds got the short end of the trade,” Hertzel wrote in an analysis that occupied a quarter of the first sports page of the Enquirer.
Ceasar Geronimo was a part time outfielder. Joe Morgan had yet to win a gold glove, Dennis Menke was an aging average outfielder.
badboy
Hall of Fame
I totally agree and was fairly shocked that Nick didn't hang in at 23 for him. With the way he moved in the past and his luck, I would not be shocked if he took Thomas at 42
No way Thomas falls to 2-42.
In 1969 he played in 28, 1970 he played in 47, 1971 he played in 94 games. He was then traded to Cincinatti before the 1972 season. What he did years later is not relevant
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
42 + one of our 4th rounders moves us to around 36-38... 42 + 3rd round pick gets us to pick 29-30 or so... Just something to keep an eye on if they want to jump up and grab someone.
I would definitely give up 3-86 for Thomas and run the card to the podium.
JCTexan
Hall of Fame
I gave up hope drafting Brian Thomas when they decided to trade #23. Houston is stuck at #42 as far as I'm concerned. Otherwise what is the point of trading back this soon?
badboy
Hall of Fame
I think it is just chess JC. Our 42 and original 59 equals 790 points on the draft pick board and our pick 23 was 760 points. That puts us between 1.21 and 1.22 as possible targets. Then you add in the round sixth if I remember correctly and the 2025 round 2. Vikings hopefully will be a top 10 picker that draft.
True I don't think he makes it past Jacksonville or maybe Pittsburgh. I've got Thomas as a top 10 player.
JCTexan
Hall of Fame
So you trade #23 to get an additional 2nd rounder next year (a 3rd rounder in value this year) only to trade both 2's this year to move up 1 or 2 spots from where you were originally? That's nonsensical. They can't trade anything more than a 4th in this draft to move up without looking like buffoons.
Disagree
If they have to trade 3-86 to move up to the bottom of the 1st for a difference maker then I'm all on board. Call me a fool and I will LOL.
I think about getting difference makers not picks and trade charts. With Caserio trading for WA, Looks like Caserio, Ryans are thinking like I do and the Texans are better off for thinking this way.
JCTexan
Hall of Fame
Then what is the point for doing this trade now? The only reason I can think of is that they believe their guy will still be available at #42. If you have to trade too much ammunition to trade back up then what is the point in trading back now?
It was not known at the time that he would be anything other than a good outfielder. You have to look at it as if it were then, not what you know now. Look, I was really upset when Morgan was traded also. Partly because I was still hurting from Rusty Staub being traded a few years before. After Rusty was traded, Morgan was my favorite Astro along with Doug Rader and Larry Dierker.
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badboy
Hall of Fame
Before draft trade:
1.23 Brian Thomas
Rest of our picks.
2025 1.28 ish and 2.60ish.
After draft trade:
Texans move 2.42 and 2.59 for 1.21 and select Brian Thomas. Also, round 6 that could be a very good back up RB. Plus round 2 in 2025 that could be top 40. They would have a first and two seconds [2.40 ~ and 2.60 ~]to get another dynamic player In a trade up.
Not saying I would have done the trade but I can understand Nick's thinking. If this was Nick's thinking.
badboy
Hall of Fame
No, they believe their guy Brian Thomas which many of us believe could be a wide receiver 1 will be available at approximately 1.21 to 1.23. They also get a six rounder which could be part of another package or a backup player.
If I can get a dynamic wide receiver plus a 6 round this year plus a probable top 10 round 2 the next draft, it is something to think about.
I judge a trade by how it turns out. Not by what people think about the trade at the time. Who cares what people think, results are all that matter.
The results are that this was the worst trade in Houston sports history. On another note the other trade that I hated as a kid was the John Mayberry for Jim York trade. Man the Astros scouts were awesome back then.
Staub, Mayberry, Morgan, Watson, Cedendo, Rader, Wynn, Geronimo
Pitching Dierker,Wilson, Billingham,Cuellar, Guisti etc... and Spec traded away all of that talent trying to be the smartest man in the room.
TexansBull
Hall of Fame
I think Stroud can make day two receivers look like some of the best day 1 receivers. As long as you have talent like Dell and Nico have shown, then the Texans don’t have to stress about getting a receiver at the top of the draft.
Not saying to not get a dynamic playmaker at WR. You just need a receiver like Nico in that Indy game that doesn’t quit and goes get the ball to make the reception. Or Dell who runs the route fastest and gets open to catch it for the game winner. When they fall to the second or third round that because of things like sitting out due to Covid, height, or S2 scores that is our gain.
JCTexan
Hall of Fame
If they believe Brian Thomas is their guy then they would have stayed at 23 to draft him. Otherwise why hope another team is willing to trade down 20 spots with us on draft night? The trade down tells me Houston is banking on their target to still be available at #42.
So basically you don't think anything should be judged in the present tense, only after years and decades have passed?
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
Pittsburgh haven't drafted a wr in the 1st rd since Holmes. It's not in they're dna
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
I don't think they're moving up. I think they like the cluster. Last yr Ryans said they were taking one of these qbs.
I think trades should be judged by the results of these trades. Too many bad trades like this one gets a GM fired.
Results are all that really matter and it usually only takes 2-3 years to know the results of a trade, not decades as you suggest.
Problem with the Stros back then is it took far too long for Hofheinz to realize he had a bad GM and ended up going bankrupt because of this negligence. This didn't happen by happenstance.
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I have been distracted lately. I check in on occasion, to get a feel as to what's going on. Everytime I check, it seems fuzzier. Two questions 1) are they betting on a healthy OLine of (Laremy Tunsil, Kenyon Green, Juice Scruggs,Shaq Mason and Tytus Howard) ? and 2) why did we get rid of David Singletary ?
Looks like it, but there's depth on the IOL. Patterson and Kendrick Green, both who played well before getting injured. Heck is the only experienced OT. I see Caserio adding an OT in FA, draft or both
They need one though. Your probably right though. I could see them drafting Mims or JPJ.
Thanks Steel. I was afraid I was tripping out on Diet Coke. Either I'm very dense, or their Master Plan is very well camouflaged.
Yeah .... these targets makes sense .... but our pick # is going the in wrong direction !
Bird in hand is better than bird in Bush
cland
Waterboy
I'll take this mock as it stands (DL Johnny Newton at 34 and OL Kiran Amegadjie at 59). Adding in 2 trench guys is exactly how you set this team up. I'd take a chance at WR and CB in the later rounds, and put those at the head of the list in 2025 FA/draft if the later picks don't work out.
I could see the old Patriots making those moves. I doubt the new regime would.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
Like I stated earlier, would not have traded down this far without more comp in return, instead just slightly tilted in Texan favor. Yet, it does add another quality prospect in 2025. Most years, this would be ideal, but very very doubtful a 1st rd. graded player is there #42. Most years there might be only 15 carrying 1st rd grades, this one it’s close to 30 (which is range where I’d been more comfortable). Depth of 2nd round grades might be close to 20 so at least we’re almost certain to draft one of those and possibly one next year as well.
Anymore trades before draft involving giving up draft capital should be discouraged. Day of or on the clock scenario’s all in play, would be ok.
Anymore trades before draft involving giving up draft capital should be discouraged. Day of or on the clock scenario’s all in play, would be ok.
Anyone got an insider subscription that can list the 16 with first round grades?
The 18 NFL draft prospects with a true Round 1 grade: What makes them 2024 first-rounders, plus comps
We'll see 32 picks in Round 1 in April, but which prospects are actually graded as first-rounders? We named 18 and made pro comps for each standout.www.espn.com
I'm not sure I agree