Compare their numbers for the last three years and get back with me. Also consider Mack played on more complete defenses. When opposing QBs see DBs 10 to 12 yards off the LOS they eat that up with quick passes. I’m curious as to what the average time to release the ball was against us last year compared to Chicago. It seemed to me that most teams game plans heavily included quick passing plays to take advantage of our soft coverage.
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First draft choice?
- Thread starter Seegara
- Start date
Mack has been more productive but not by leaps and bounds. The difference isn’t what Oakland Got for Mack versus a mid second round pick.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
Get point, but also must consider what Raiders got in return for Mack in equation moving forward, less whatever franchise tag cost Texans for Clowney.
TheRealJoker
Hall of Fame
Do you honestly think the crappy undertalented Raiders defenses Mack played on were more complete than Crennel’s Texans defenses? Come on man!
But don't ignore the fact that two of the picks that the Bears gave up were were future years picks including one of the first rounders along with the third-round pick.
But I still think the Bears were foolish or misguided (call it what you want) to pay that much for a non-QB player.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
And there's the philosophical bias that keeps you from evaluating the market.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
BPA is for teams without tons of holes or huge holes.
Oline, and I don't give a **** about anything else.
They put themselves in this corner. I don't want to hear anything else. Oline, that's it.
Oline, and I don't give a **** about anything else.
They put themselves in this corner. I don't want to hear anything else. Oline, that's it.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
I didn’t realize Mack was already 27. Raiders received Bears 2019 & 2020 1st’s. Also swapped 2020 Raiders 2nd for Bears 3rd and Bears 6th rd this year (best I can tell).
Mack got Six Year 141 Million. The deal averages $23.5 million per season, includes $90 million in guaranteed money and a $60 million signing bonus.
I might suggest both Raiders and Texans are either cheap or frugal?
I honestly don’t know. I know we were very talented up front but our secondary has been trash. Was their secondary bad? Did their game plan include allowing the opposing offense to have easy underneath plays all day? It’s why I said I’d like to see the average time the opposing QB had before releasing the ball.
TheRealJoker
Hall of Fame
Watch some Raiders games if you can handle it sometime to find your answer. Yes they were bad. Across the board except for Mack.
It's not philosophical, it's what's dictated by the economic reality of the NFL. Which position year in and year , Draft after Draft gets selected the highest ?
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
QBs and those who hit them, pass rushers like Mack. And within each position there's a spectrum of players. You know Mack went #5 overall right? Your philosophy is what had the Jags pick Bortles #3. It also had the Browns pick Manziel #22 over Dee Ford #23. What are Bortles & Manziel worth now? Exactly squat.
zshawn10
All Pro
Chad Forbes on Texan's draft plans:
Offensive Tackle Priority even after Matt Kalil signing. Josh Jacobs in play Rd1. Looking at RBs all over board. Won’t surprise anyone if select 2 RBs. If Jonah, Andre Dillard of Ja’Waan Taylor makes it to mid teens, trade up will be considered. Doing a lot work on Corners.
— Chad Forbes (@NFLDraftBites) April 3, 2019
Offensive Tackle Priority even after Matt Kalil signing. Josh Jacobs in play Rd1. Looking at RBs all over board. Won’t surprise anyone if select 2 RBs. If Jonah, Andre Dillard of Ja’Waan Taylor makes it to mid teens, trade up will be considered. Doing a lot work on Corners.
— Chad Forbes (@NFLDraftBites) April 3, 2019
I’m doing a terrible job of getting my point across. Let me try it this way schematically the way we use our cornerbacks Entices opposing quarterbacks to get the ball out fast for easy short games I think we do it more than any team in the NFL. I hate it it’s my pet peeve. The reason I hate it is because it doesn’t allow your defense time to get to the quarterback. I think it wears the defensive front down and demoralises them.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
That’s how I’ve felt for a while
Williams, Dillard, Taylor Being there at around 16 17 see what it takes (our third plus 23 would do according to trade charts) to move up. I’d throw Greed Williams in that list as well. If none of them I would try and trade down to the end of the first early second and pick up another pick in the top three rounds.
Of course if an elite enough talent falls. I would seriously consider waiting until the second round to add our CB and OT.
Jeffery Simmons, DT Would be a steal @23 and would be incredible in between Clowney and Watt. Having someone who get pressure up the middle could make a huge difference.
The RB part is a little surprising. Not that I have a problem with that.
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Wolf12339
Waterboy
Taking a RB in the 1st round would be a disaster... Don't see us trading up at all either.
Julian Love, CB, Notre Dame
Amani Oruwariye, CB, Penn State
Kaleb McGary, T, Washington
Kris Boyd, CB, Texas
Rock Ya-Sin, CB, Temple
Joejuan Williams, CB, Vanderbilt
Elgton Jenkins, C, Mississippi State
Erik McCoy, C, Texas A&M
the top OTs are gone and we feel like we can get a quality OL and a CB in the second round for instance.
1-23 Jacobs
2-54 McGary
2-55 Joejuan Williams
I’d be ok with that. Or with two others from the list above at 54 and 55.
Amani Oruwariye, CB, Penn State
Kaleb McGary, T, Washington
Kris Boyd, CB, Texas
Rock Ya-Sin, CB, Temple
Joejuan Williams, CB, Vanderbilt
Elgton Jenkins, C, Mississippi State
Erik McCoy, C, Texas A&M
Why adding weapons around our you young franchise QB would be a good thing. If all
the top OTs are gone and we feel like we can get a quality OL and a CB in the second round for instance.
1-23 Jacobs
2-54 McGary
2-55 Joejuan Williams
I’d be ok with that. Or with two others from the list above at 54 and 55.
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beerlover
Hall of Fame
I’m going to say Texans will select: Jonah Williams, OL Alabama
Wouldn’t have said this following season because of his tape, but couple tackles have jumped ahead of him and even a guard (Bradbury). Most now even grade him out as a guard. He hasn’t flashed in workouts and measurables not elite.
But he is Texan worthy. O’Brian type of guy. Let him come into camp with a chip on his shoulder, that he can’t make it in the NFL as a LT and watch him prove naysayers wrong. For the Texans he is a left tackle and BPA.
Wouldn’t have said this following season because of his tape, but couple tackles have jumped ahead of him and even a guard (Bradbury). Most now even grade him out as a guard. He hasn’t flashed in workouts and measurables not elite.
But he is Texan worthy. O’Brian type of guy. Let him come into camp with a chip on his shoulder, that he can’t make it in the NFL as a LT and watch him prove naysayers wrong. For the Texans he is a left tackle and BPA.
Williams wouldn't fit the profile of OTs brought in previously. Not saying he would be a bad pick at all. I'm sure he could start somewhere on this line. I just don't think the Texans see someone like Jonah Williams as a prototypical LT.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
For that reason alone the most ready to plug and play LT prospect could fall to Texans. Measureable is more of a scouting, GM term used to help with grading out prospects but coaches place more weight on tape and interviews to see how they fit on roster to address need. Devlin was running some day one drills for Offensive Linemen. He seemed more impressed with how well they followed directions and executed drills. That’s what I saw (quick feet, balance) so believe Williams excelled here and if available #23 will be highly graded on Texan draft board.
Zero chance we waste a 1st on a guy who just tore his ACL (with a domestic violence conviction to boot). I seriously doubt anyone else will either. USA Today mocking him to the Seahawks is laughable.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
Not worried about the injury it’s an ACL no big deal. He’s a top 10 Talent. The domestic violence thing happened when he was in high school he’s been nothing but a model citizen on and off the field since.
If he's healthy, he's a sure top half, if not top-10 talent. He's not though, and prior examples indicate he'll drop to the 2nd.
As for the ACL itself? - Sure as hell a big deal if you need him at 100% come September...or 2019 at all for that matter.
Those charges? From 2016, so not exactly ancient history. That they kept him from getting an invite to the combine is a red flag in itself.
Not a show-stopper for many teams, but the Texans?
I doubt the Texans, with Gaine and BoB under scrutiny as it is would even risk anything above a 3rd for him, given all the other glaring needs. I'm not saying he isn't worth more, just that there's no way this group takes that risk right now.
Agree!
I'm sure some team will probably take him in the 1st or maybe the 2nd round and, he probably does have top 10 talent and could turn out to be the steal of the Draft. It just won't be the Texans. They have too many holes to fill and can't take the risk, especially in the 1st, of missing on that pick! They really need to hit on those first 4 picks.
Speaking of holes. JJ is 30 now. Clowney according to some here is a ticking time bomb injury waiting to happen and could likely sit out this year or force a trade. Not arguing for Simmons here but If you can get an edge rusher or DL that is an elite prospect now it wouldn’t be a bad move.
It’s not likely one of the three guys who can actually play LT will be available. There aren’t any real lockdown CBs in this draft. The difference between the ones rated first rounders and second rounder aren’t that different.
I could easily see BPA first especially if one of the elites fall. Followed by an OL and CB in the second round. If that happens I don’t see how you could label it a miss. I actually think that is the safest and best route to go.
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
If you're going to draft Simmons then you probably should draft him in the 1st round so you have the 5th year option to use on him. Same as trading up and taking a QB #32 instead of #33.
He's going to miss most or all of his rookie year. Do you only want 3 years of him being relatively cheap before you have to pay him?
Just a thought.
He's going to miss most or all of his rookie year. Do you only want 3 years of him being relatively cheap before you have to pay him?
Just a thought.
Agreed, but if I needed a DT and say I was the Dolphins I would pick him if he fell to the 2nd. If I was Ballard I would definitely consider Simmons. They aren't winning a SB next yr and Simmons is really good.
I'm hoping they use 55 to trade up and get a LT, then use 54 to draft Long or Isiah Johnson.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
I'm going to predict a trade back in RD1. I think the Texans can get a desired OT a little later in RD1 while gaining another pick in RD2 or RD3 depending on who's up for grabs at 23. I think the Texans need a smart but tough nosed OL, therefore I'm going to stick with my initial prediction.....Texans draft Dalton Risner or Erik McCoy. Both of these guys would be tremendous additions to the OL.
Man I could live with that. If it were me I would look into trading down. Wonder if NE wants Hockenson as bad as reported. If he makes it to 23, I would call them and say let’s swap first rounders and we’ll give you our #86 for your #56.
That would give us picks
32
54
55
56
So basically moving down 9 spots to turn our faith round pick into (56) a third. I think we come out better that way that trading up.
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infantrycak
Hall of Fame
#56 is a 2nd & #86 is a 3rd round pick. Their 5th is #161.
5th for a 2nd is overpaying That's 170 (760 - 590) for 313 (340 - 27).
5th for a 2nd is overpaying That's 170 (760 - 590) for 313 (340 - 27).
I was knee deep in work today. Probably made a mistake.
I meant our first (23) 760 and our 3rd (86) 160 total is 920
For their first (32) 590 and their second (56) 340 total 930.
That gives us four picks in the top 56
32
54
55
56
Seegara
Guitar Picker, Dog Lover, Woodworker
How about ridden out of town on a rail?
badboy
Hall of Fame
But like you said Clowney worth around mid first round and to right team that plus something else. For me that's Eagle's first three picks. 1.25, 2.53 and 2.57 about right not saying they would agree.
badboy
Hall of Fame
While a factor, a team with cap just goes after player as was done with T Brown. Raiders could have gotten best OT in draft for way less and longer also. Of course it wasn't a trade but my point remains. Teams will make offers through round one and just maybe after. See my thread draft and FA for post soon.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
That's why I've mentioned......either shite or get off the pot!!!! Cal and Gaine need to get him signed and happy or trade him. My guess, after the Lawrence signing he'll be advised to sit out the season if the Texans expect him to play on the tag.
If they don't trade him this year......they'll lose whatever trade value they had in him. Maybe his contract demands go up if DE/EDGE players beat the contracts of Mack and Lawrence in 2020. The only guaranteed losers in this mess.......the Texans.
And if Clowney sits out the year, that's what, $17M he'll never recover? Everyone loses
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
It's not one less year of wear & tear. It's one more year in the countdown. It's degenerative. Living & training will still see it worsen.
And bell absolutely lost money. One year of his life & career are gone for which he would have been paid $17 mil. They didn't tack that on top of his new contract.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
No, but today he has a guaranteed contract. Under the 17M dollar payday, he's got that and that's it in the event of a career ending injury. I think it was a smart move b/c he protected himself first and foremost.....no one else is going to do that. NFL owners are far too greedy to let a talent like that just walk away if there's a hint he'd return for the right amount of money.
Bell will never get back that money he didn't get paid
This isn't some $17.00 HR auto worker that can live off savings and handouts to strike for a few months. This ia millions of $$$$ to him and his family. $17M is $17M and he would never EARN $17 MILLION more in future contracts if he decided to take the year off. Bell's contract was nice, but it isn't $$$$$ more nice
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
Blow out a knee and it becomes a one time payday. Once he recovers and decided he wanted to come back, he'd get a veterans minimum deal with built-in incentives.....that's it. He now has a payday that pays off even if he suffers a career ending injury. He will never get that 17M back but he's got a much deal for the future.
That's what insurance is for... he can get a $50M policy for much less than $17M. There is no insurance for that year of age