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FIRE O'BRIEN NOW!!!
- Thread starter Carr Bombed
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When did they trade away the 2022 first?
texanhead08
All Pro
I think a moderately well-executed WCO, or an RPO with the right personnel would be ideal for his skill set. The version of EP we’ve run (and admittedly tweaked “some” for Watson’s benefit) has been underwhelming, no doubt due in no small part to the receivers we’ve thrown at it.
The “getting the ball out quick” part requires the receivers (and QB) in EP to make reads faster than our personnel have been able to execute.
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Mr teX
Hall of Fame
by win/loss record
By playoff appearances
By division crowns
...you know all the objective stuff y’all like to ignore when y’all have a narrative
And you expect that to change just because they change the system ?
Sure , a WCO is going to help by some play designs being long winded / slow developing .... but those deep drops off of play action are few and far between. What about the other 85% of the playbook ?
There are still a lot of option routes in the WCO ... tho the reads are much easier for the route runners.
Decisions still need to be made much faster than they have been by our QB or the route runners.
dream_team
Hall of Fame
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
EVERY offense requires the WR's and QB to be on the same page..that's not exclusive to BoB's version of the EP or anyone's version of any system. But if you want to be perfectly honest, the WR/QB and HC seeing the same things is actually more critical to WCO systems than almost any other.
What it comes down to is whether the qb takes those quick window throws or not. I think in an effort to cater to DW4's greatest strength as a passer (throwing it deep down field) I think the reads were set up long to short for his benefit. In the base WCO, reads are set up short to long.
Bottom line is, the scheme itself was never really the problem imo....Sure there were a few things that could've been done in the scheme to help the offense move a little bit better, but the implementation & execution on the field was at least 50% of the issues imo & alot of that is on the player(s) themselves.
The Rams run 32% PA Pass for Goff.
https://www.si.com/nfl/rams/news/ho... took over as,times they have been successful.
I think I've seen higher numbers some year, for some team.
One ought to remember that the PA is also tied in with an effective running game.
When done right, the QB is not left with a crazy number of third and long.
That will cut into any QB's penchant to play Hero Ball, if there's such thing.
You can then have sub-packages with RPO, moving the pocket along with the QB, RB screens, WR tunnel screens and jet sweeps (all high percentage play if drawn up and implemented correctly).
Just a few things on the top of the head.
I don't know if it's going to be ignored. We're ready, been ready, for a different kind of average.
Those bad deals were made.out of desperation and management meddling.
Tunsil- deal was made to try to give DW4 the protection he needed to improve. Unfortunately that improvement didn't happen and BOB's looking for a job today.
Nuk trade- definitely mgmt meddling
DW4 re-signing definitely mgmt.
You're assuming BO'b was telling Watson not to pull the ball & run on those RPO looks.
BO'bs gone & we'll see if Watson is more apt to keep it in a few days. I honestly don't think it was BO'b telling him not to run.
There was a play Sunday, I don't remember the details, but we were in an empty set. Watson drops back to throw, no one is open. He pulls the ball down, takes off running straight ahead through a big gap. He changes his mind, wants to throw it, then pulls it down again & tries to run, only now, the spy (big defensive lineman, not an athletic LB or DB) closed the gap & takes him down for a one yard gain.
The Deshaun Watson we drafted would have pulled it down & been gone. That Dl would have no chance of an open field tackle on the DeShaun Watson we drafted.
That guy out there Sunday made it easy & has been making it easy for quite a few games now to beat him. I don't think those decisions (because there's been a lot of them) are on BO'b. But we'll see come Sunday. If he's removed that stuff from his game, we just wasted $111MM.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Mostly all of this has nothing to do with the scheme itself catering/flexing to DW4's strengths as a passer or runner. Furthermore, You don't completely revamp your entire offense b/c your offensive line can't block or effectively pass protect. You adjust it a little but that's about it. Aside from that, I could show you examples of all this stuff you claim was non existent in the scheme to help DW4 on tape from this year's games alone, but you're pretty well entrenched & its pointless considering that BoB is gone...I'll just choose to let you believe what you want to believe.
The whole "run on 1st down every time" thing has been disproven so many times by so many different people it's not even worth discussing anymore. Another 1 of those pointless things to try to disprove to people who want to ignore what the reality actually was.
Well again i will ask you since not one of you would like to answer it. What exactly did having Nuk the prior 3-4 years with DW4 and numerous other QBs do to help the offense become elite? Answer: not a damn thing. DW4 is still on track to get his customary 25-26 pass TD's, we still got off to slow starts & the offense still largely sucked.
So it's all on the receivers?
All Texans fans have ever known is avg to slightly above avg. It's going to be a long 4 years.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Offenses work b/c:
3-5% play design / scheme
10% play calling/timing of the called play
30-40% talent
50% + QB decision making/execution/accuracy etc..
You guys are haggling over that 3-10% of how the offense could be better. In which my admittedly unempircal estimation is that there's probably room for about a 3-4% improvement there that would help.
By contrast I believe there's probably a 10-12% chance for improvement in that bottom 50% that would probably have more of an immediate impact on the offense.
You miss the important point:
The small percentage are big plays.
Another point is that O'Brien hasn't been helping the offensive line.
Sounds like a bunch of excuses.
- What's the point of getting Tunsil to give DW4 protection to improve without replacing Devlin? Did mgmt keep him from replacing Devlin?
- Brian Diaboll was with the Patriots and had experience with the EP offense. The Bills hired him from Alabama. He was available for O'Brien to hire him. Did mgmt keep O'Brien from hiring an experienced OC with EP experience?
- Did mgmt make him promote Tim Kelly?
- Did mgmt make him give Mercilus that contract?
- Did mgmt make him over pay for multiple players on the roster?
For years, the complaint was fans didn't know who was responsible for this or that decision. Now we have one person who is the OC/HC/GM and you're still trying to deflect the blame to mgmt or the QB.
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Mr teX
Hall of Fame
DW4 will make his share of big plays throughout a season b/c that's what he's elite at so i would argue that that's something that you don't really need to worry about. What the offense needs...has been needing really, is consistent, decision making coming from the QB position. Just by him getting the ball out on time & taking the short stuff and what the defense is giving him a little more consistently it helps the offense out sooo much. By doing that:
It helps the offense stay out of 3rd and longs
It helps the o-line out b/c they shouldn't be asked to hold blocks for 4+ seconds every time he drops back for a pass. & when he's holding holding holding, that's exactly what he's asking the o-line to do. Defenses are too good for that to be something they consistently have to do.
It helps the offense establish some sort of rhythm by avoiding some of the 3 & outs b/c chances are you're going to be converting some of those 3rd and shorts & be able to stay on the field longer.
1 simple thing...& it doesn't require the offense to "scheme" it in either. He can take the short stuff like that in any offense.
Sure, but play design and play calling matters.
I had noted a number of big plays from Cousins (vs. Texans) in one of the threads.
There were more than enough to boost an offense.
Then Kubiak gave Cousins at least another half dozen quick shots downfield where his receiver is in one-on-one with the CB. It's too quick for the safety to come over.
So really, Watson can have his fix (if he has one) and can still run the offense in a more controlled manner just the same.
That's what has been happening to Tannehill and Mayfield as well.
Valid points. So, as an OC how do you help or force that QB to take the short stuff more often? You can't say he cannot do it because we have seen the QB take the short stuff for series, quarters, and even games. As a OC, what plays do you call with defined options to speed up the decision making? As an OC, what are you doing to help the running game to get into better 3rd down situations?
dream_team
Hall of Fame
I agree with you. I want DW4 to tuck and run more often. Not a drastic amount more, but maybe 2-3 times more a game. Especially if it's 1st or 2nd down and he could possibly gain 4+ yards.
At the same time, we keep hearing him say that BOB is telling him to "be patient" and "trust the protection". If Watson reads the defense, and he knows someone is about to come open, I want him to trust the protection if needed. Especially if there's less pass rushers vs blockers. I don't want DW4 to become a QB that doesn't look downfield and runs as soon as things get a little murky.
It's a fine line he'll have to balance.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
You can:
call short quick 1 read pass plays.....which was actually done a few times early in the game......& DW4 1-hopped a few of them to the WR/RB's that contributed to some 3rd and longs we faced early.
You can go empty and simplify reads for short quick pass plays....we did that with mixed results.
You can change his order of reading things to short to long instead of vice versa....
OR......you can let your QB get a feel for how the defense is playing and let him make the decision on when to force it and when to check it down within the plays called like almost every OC does.
See the problem with the 1st 2 options is it limits the types of plays you can call to quick hitters, it requires a sustained level of execution as often times scoring drives that are primarily comprised of these types of plays go 10+ plays. And it in the case of going empty, it can compromise pass pro b/c you're limited to your 5 o-linemen. So if those db's start driving on those quick hitting slants, the qb doesn't have time to go to anyone else & that's that.
The best option is to call plays normally & trust that your qb is going to make the best decision & take the underneath stuff if the deeper stuff isn't there.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Sure it does, but not nearly as much as you think. There was nothing extraordinary about Kubiak's playcalls & design of those quick shots..everybody's offense has those type of fly routes in their playbook & it had even less to do with design. The bottom line is Justin Jefferson was just better than Hargreaves.......who had good position i might add. Cousins' throw was just better. I would give his playcall a little credit........... if he had Justin Jefferson matched up against a LB..but that wasn't the case.
Those shots are only extras.
When you have a QB with a strong arm like Watson and you have a speedy receiver like Fuller, or a big posession receiver (like Hopkins), I definitely think you should give them at least a couple of shots a game.
Or when you have a mismatch; I mean like with all those rookie CB on the Vikings squad, an OC really should give even their number 2/3 like Stills and Cobbs some shots, too.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
agreed, but those become throw away plays if teams are already playing you for the deep pass plays..which the Vikings were alot of the times.
There’s a fine line between modifying “your” system to adapt to your roster’s strengths and trying to force a round peg into a square hole.
Honestly, I see it akin to trying to use ZBS linemen in a power running game. You “can”, but you’re far more likely to succeed with guys better suited to the role.
Either: We have the personnel to succeed in our current system (but they were failed by coaching).
We have the personnel to succeed in another system, but either the GM brought in players poorly suited to what we had in place, or the coaching didn’t adapt his system or the players to his adequately.
We lack the personnel to be successful in any system and our GM has completely failed us.
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They need to scheme around the best receiver we have, unfortunately that’s Randall Cobb but they could improve the pace tremendously using him correctly.
First series.
Third and 2.
They had to guard the run.
I'd send the Y Fuller on a deep route to the right instead of that up and in.
If the CB stays in phase, adjust it to a 10-15 yd comebacker.
I'd run the X maybe on a post, and the Z on a seam to confuse the deep safety.
Even if it doesn't go anywhere, it'll put the D on notice.
....
On the 3rd and 6 on the second series, I may run a comebacker on either side, now that the boundary corners had been served notice.
Just some ideas; it doesn't have to be those exact route combos.
TheMatrix31
Hall of Fame
Ya well I actually watched the games and watched the playoff games that our now former king led us to so none of that **** you posted means jack to me.
Former. What a beautiful word.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Doesn't matter what it means to you, its what in fact makes him an above average HC...period end of story.
Hey Bill O'Brien. . .
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