Execution doesn't have anything to do with coaching? The offense is bottom 10 every year because the players suck?
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Execution doesn't have anything to do with coaching? The offense is bottom 10 every year because the players suck?
Execution depends a lot on coaching decisions, ie playcalls and lineups.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Of course it does...just not nearly as much as you assert. The perfect offensive play call matters not if your LT misses his block...if your qb under throws the ball...if any number of things happen that aren’t supposed to b/c 1 of 11 players screws up their assignment.
The reverse is also true. A great individual effort can negate a not so optimal playcall.
Execution largely begins and ends with the players on the field.
BoB’s smart enough to use “you guys are...” statements when praising this team b/c he understands that.
Ok but over 5 years the defense executes 80% of the time and the offense executes maybe 5% of the time.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Well coached teams execute better.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
And this empirical data is sourced from where??
The defense has been the stronger of the 2 units under BoB, but let’s not act like they’ve been the 85 bears and the offense has just been holding them back either. This same defense you’re lauding and largely praising Crennel for got lit up in the playoffs against the Chiefs and Patriots to the tune of 30+ pts when it mattered most.
Obviously we know what happened last year.
You can’t try to separate the 2 sides of the ball. They play as a team.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
I'd say at a minimum.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
To a point, yes I agree..
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
How has Bob been able to do it? We've under achieved almost all season. It wasn't until the Jags game that we actually looked like a strong team. That's two games. Only game we should have lost this season is week one against the Pats and even that one was winnable. I'm tired of Bob learning on the job. I defended him a lot in his first 2 to 3 years and had quite a few arguments with Icak and Scooter like you are and a few others about OB, but he simply hasn't evolved and gotten better as a HC. He's the same guy every season and just doesn't seem to have what it takes to push them to the next level. Don't let this 5 game winning streak fool you.
The defense has been top 10 4 out of 5 years.
The offense has been good 6 games in 5 years (previous game plus 5 Watson starts last year).
I do think the offense is holding the defense back. If the offense was even just average (top 15) instead of bottom 8 every year it would be a much better team.
Agree. If the offense is mediocre, constantly punting or putting the defense in bad positions, eventually, the extra snaps will either take a toll on the defense or give opposing offenses extra possessions to attack them.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
No coach has "gotten better" until they've broken through so it's a bit of a catch-22. Even moreso a catch-22 b/c that "getting better" usually coincides with them landing a franchise qb. But I believe he has gotten better as a HC b/c he's gravitated to a style that's more "him" imo. He came in as the typical Belichick disciple does..trying to be like him..authoritative, stubborn and largely dismissive.
The BoB we see in the lockerrooms after & during games these days, is more a motivator, player's coach..adapting to whatever his players need for them to buy in. Could've been easy for BoB to get in front of the press and put Davenport & the o-line in general on blast for their play and role in Watson's injuries. Dude instead gets out there and takes all the heat off of his players by saying "we've got to coach it better". Players appreciate that & it results in deeper buy-in. Having a guy like Watson proliferate that buy-in by riding a bus to Jax and back has done a great deal to reinforce BoB's message.
Its well documented that Coughlin had to change his coaching style and relax... it led the Giants' to 2 SB. I'm not saying that's on the horizon for BoB, but at the end of the day, that's the type of stuff that constitutes getting better as a coach.
This gets to the point of what I was saying a couple of weeks ago. I asked, "Do we know what we're looking at?" I believe it was after week 5.
I mentioned how New England treats the first three or four games as an extension of the preseason. They always look better than us, but they don't look like "the Patriots" either.
They look beatable. Which is why I prefer to play them in September, when they're figuring out what they got, who they are, & what they do.
Sometimes it carries into October. Not often, but sometimes. By December they look unbeatable & are often the favorites in January & February.
I hope that is what O'Brien is doing. He hasn't been able to in years past, for several reasons, excuses.
Fingers crossed.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
The question remains though if this much better team would be good enough to contend much more than they have been. I contend no....b/c we didn't have a franchise qb until just last year. The ironic thing about that is, the defense was trash last year lol.
I don't think the offense has been holding the defense and/or team back. What I think was BoB was making chicken salad out of the largely chicken **** he had on offense from 2014-2016. That couldn't begin to change until he got his franchise guy in 2017. IOW, He got about as much as he could with what he had and it was good enough to get them to the playoffs.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Fans tend to panic if their team doesn't come out of the gate smoking. Players and coaches in contrast tend to want to look good enough to win, but also want to be peaking at the right time late in the season.
Texansphan
Football connoisseur
Another of the criticize when he loses AND when he wins brigade.
I'd hate to be your employee.
It will depend on how healthy our key players stay.
The big difference between us and the Pats is the total coaching staff - Pats have arguably the best in the league and it shows year in and year out.
For example, they have an unerring ability to just add an ordinary player into their lineup and he looks like an allstar.
No... that's not what I'm saying.
The first 3 games we saw our team playing a brand of football that didn't seem to play to our strength. There wasn't a lot of pre-snap activity & our QB looked like he was told to stay in the pocket.
Now we're seeing more of Watson being Watson... having fun & doing what he do.
I believe New England does something similar every year. Not as drastic as what we saw with our team... Brady stays in the pocket, period.
But they've been running their offense for a long time, they usually bring back most of their players year after year. You'll rarely see them with 4 new starting g OL two years in a row.
Once they figure out who they are, they go back to doing what they know & fine tuning their offense.
Yeah, lose Gronk or Welker & they'll have to change. But the team is usually so good by then they'll make Steven Ridley look like an All Pro, or some other obscure nobody.
ATXtexanfan
Hall of Fame
OB sucks
Texansphan
Football connoisseur
The first quote was meant for cak - dunno how it ended up on yours.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Now, THERE'S an intelligent approach!
Texansballer74
The Marine
The coaching has improved thus the reason for the improvement on the offense.
1. Preparation: the entire team of late, have been ready to play verses the 1st 4 games.
2. Execution: Bill O'Brien is calling plays that is actually getting receivers open, example the crossing routes, Fuller was so wide open. He is maximizing his talent now. He have his running game going. He is finally getting Watson out the pocket in which was so lethal last season.
3. Focus: we are committing those drive killers, silly penalties. In the first 4 games we were committing penalties at a record pace.
Talk about a tail of two halves. Lack of better terms, " Doctor Jekyll and Mr. Hyde ".
I started to start a new thread breaking down the first four games verses the last 4 games.
Credit do go to Bill O'Brien and staff for coaching up this team and getting them to play some damn good football.
1. Preparation: the entire team of late, have been ready to play verses the 1st 4 games.
2. Execution: Bill O'Brien is calling plays that is actually getting receivers open, example the crossing routes, Fuller was so wide open. He is maximizing his talent now. He have his running game going. He is finally getting Watson out the pocket in which was so lethal last season.
3. Focus: we are committing those drive killers, silly penalties. In the first 4 games we were committing penalties at a record pace.
Talk about a tail of two halves. Lack of better terms, " Doctor Jekyll and Mr. Hyde ".
I started to start a new thread breaking down the first four games verses the last 4 games.
Credit do go to Bill O'Brien and staff for coaching up this team and getting them to play some damn good football.
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Two issues are:
1) he was involved in building the roster. That's why hoyer/mallet came and he remade what was a top 10 OL. If you blame Rick, then why was Crennel still able to build good defenses most years?
2) the offense mostly sucks even with Watson here and Rick gone. Let's see if the offense is good for more than 1 game, but now OBrien has the Fuller injury excuse (somehow Crennel doesn't need an excuse despite losing two corners now)
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Ok let’s stop proliferating this thought that our o-line was that awesome coming into 2014...b/c they really weren’t. The last time any of those guys had even made the pro bowl was 3 years prior. Aside from that:
Brooks and Ben Jones left for more money and for all their own reasons.
Brown pouted his way outta here for his own personal reasons largely unrelated to BoB..that’s we’ll documented.
Newton got hurt against Denver and effectively retired.
Chris Myers and Wade Smith were both let go in 2014....but neither played another down for another team and retired on their own accords..players don’t just do that if they’re still playing at a high level.....neither was.
How is any of that on BoB?
Adams, Giacomini, Lamm...none of these guys were brought in to be the future & BoB didn’t conciously come here ridding the team of great o-linemen in favor of guys he wanted for his system like your trying to pass this off as..they were brought in largely out of necessity over the course of 2 years and several different situations.
The only guy you can say that was conciously brought in to be the future is XSF; but even he wasn’t penciled in as an immediate starter.
Go back and pull that 2014 roster and compare what BoB had on offense vs. what Crennel had. You simply can not compare...talent level was one-sided as hell..Crennel inherited mostly a bunch of young guys about to hit their primes or in the case of JJ, squarely in their primes and at the tops of their games...BoB......not so much. Yes some of it was his doing, but mostly of it was Rick Smith’s. We’re still trying to overcome a lot of those Smith mistakes today too.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
2012, i.e. one season removed, Chris Myers & Wade Smith were probowl, Duane Brown was probowl & 1st team all pro. 2-14 teams almost never send players so 2013 is hardly a reflection on their individual performances.
Duane Brown did not become disaffected until years later.
The jumping through hoops to place all the blame on Rick Smith to give O'Brien a pass is ridiculous.
PatDStat made an interesting comment in his podcast. He mentioned that they are doing more zone blocking the last two games. It's a better scheme for Miller. So, my question. If that is true and Miller is a RB built for a zone blocking scheme, why have we been running a power blocking scheme?
On the OL, things just didn't work out. Many draft experts thought XSF was a solid pick. They drafted Martin. They signed Allen and Newton was developing, Brown was happy. Who decided to move Allen from LG to RG? I guess the same geniuses who moved Davenport from LT to RT.
To simply blame Smith for everything wrong with the Texans and not even try to understand that O'Brien had a hand in this mess is just blatantly trying finding a scape goat for O'Brien.
PatDStat made an interesting comment in his podcast. He mentioned that they are doing more zone blocking the last two games. It's a better scheme for Miller. So, my question. If that is true and Miller is a RB built for a zone blocking scheme, why have we been running a power blocking scheme?
On the OL, things just didn't work out. Many draft experts thought XSF was a solid pick. They drafted Martin. They signed Allen and Newton was developing, Brown was happy. Who decided to move Allen from LG to RG? I guess the same geniuses who moved Davenport from LT to RT.
To simply blame Smith for everything wrong with the Texans and not even try to understand that O'Brien had a hand in this mess is just blatantly trying finding a scape goat for O'Brien.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
That was a question when he was signed while we were moving to power. Speed was the answer. But his inside game is average and rarely takes advantage of his speed.
Watson is tailor made for a ZBS offense which is why they have been mixing in more. The movement. The run & pass looking the same. Watson has a great play fake. Get it flowing, Miller & Watson will look at home.
Surreal McCoy
Rookie
Which is why I would love to see him in a proper WCO scheme, with zone runs and the lot. I honestly think he (Watson) would make Mahomes look mortal if he were to receive proper coaching and scheme fit.
Players retire and leave all the time. That's part of the job (O'Brien may claim otherwise). 2014 was 4 years ago. How long can he claim that he is rebuilding that team? (That team was only missing a QB remember, yet O'Brien brought in Fitz/Hoyer/Mallet).
If he's bringing poor players like Breno in out of necessity during the season then he didn't do a good job in the offseason.
The defense lost Bouye, Kevin Johnson didn't pan out, Wilfork retired, Cushing never got healthy again, etc. Yet Crennel replaced them in draft/free agency or moved guys around and made it work. How many young guys are playing on defense right now? Quite a few. You're saying Crennel had all this talent but Watt, Clowney and Mercilus all missed significant time. Watt didn't even really play the last 2 years.
If you're still going to blame Rick Smith on offense than you're going to have to credit him for building a dominant defense this year. Sure you want to do that?
Agree. I've seen multiple posts with Smith leaving the team a mess. How many teams would love for a GM to leave them with a roster of core players like Watt, Mercilus, Clowney, Jackson, Miller, Hopkins, Fuller and Watson?
I thought Miller was the perfect back for running out of the gun & with more & more teams going with RPOs, I figured we'd see more of it. Then when we got Watson I thought it was clear as day we were going in that direction.
But it didn't happen.
Don't know why.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Yeah....no. The league makes you retire 99.9% of the time. The guys you're talking about retiring from the game are retiring b/c no one wants them. That's a far cry from what happened with Meyers and Smith. They retired b/c the league spoke....Just like its speaking for Dez Bryant right now. Furthermore, players still playing at high level rarely walk away from the game voluntarily. The few who are doing it today are doing it for different reasons...you know that though. you're just being purposely obtuse.
Yes...2014 was 4 years ago. & you know what? We just got rid of the clown that was the author of so much of this franchise's misery for the last 12 years just this past year. A guy who in the 8 years prior to 2014 only managed to put together 2 teams worth a damn. A guy whose draft and FA acquistions repeatedly set this team back years & are literally regarded as some of the worst in NFL history.
Check out #8. I have to believe that if this list were redone, one of the Ed Reed and/or the Brock Osweiler signings might make it on here.
The **** that you're trying to lay primarily at BoB's feet (& give Crennel credit for) are primarily Smith's job functions that again he was still performing and responsible for just last year. Smith/Jimmy Raye ran the scouts. Smith/Jimmy Raye ran the drafts. Smith/Jimmy Raye brought in the free agents. Yes, BoB had some input, but, that's it. INPUT. That doesn't equivocate to him being the primary author of what is actually done. We know BoB didn't want Mallet. We now know from other players that were around then (Cecil Shorts), BoB didn't want Oz either. It was only when BoB started raising hell in the last 2 years that Smith even began consistently spending high draft picks for offense..something he'd only done sparingly in the 10 years prior.
& you're being disingenuous with your argument. When this defense was missing Bouye, Watt, Mercy they were terrible. & that's with Clowney having a career year. It wasn't no "moving guys around" in 2017.
& Lol, Smith spent enough draft capital and resources on the defense.....The defense should be dominant shouldn't it?
I was really excited when the Texans signed Miller. I remember how he torched the Texans in their game against Miami and I expected them to get him out in space, tosses and off tackle. I was shocked in his first game as a Texan, he had 28 carries, then 25 carries in the 2nd game. I immediately said, he's not going to last the season because in Miami, they monitored his carries. However, the geniuses on Kirby didn't get the memo and sure enough he got hurt.
Miller averaged 25 carries in the first four games as a Texan. If you want to know how you take a speed back and turn him into a 3.5 YPC plodder, take a look at the blocking scheme and the number of carries he got in his first season with the Texans.
I guess it was Rick Smith calling those plays too.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Smith came up in the Denver system...indoctrinated in scouting the type of players that Shanahan/Kubiak liked for their scheme...That's why he was brought here. So it should be no surprise that Smith would go after a player like Miller who is good in the zone blocking scheme.
It should also not be a surprise how Smith's expertise in drafting and FA acquisition led to what was the reported issue between the 2 of "organizational alignment".
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
"Body like Tarzan, but plays like Jane"...…..That's what Miller had been regarded as going all the way back to his days with the Hurricanes. The real question you should be asking is why our fearless GM would bring in the equivalent of a 3rd down change of pace back to be our feature guy when he's never been that in his entire career.
I don't have a problem with bringing Miller in to be the featured back. My problem is in the way he was featured.
I don't care if O'b wanted him or didn't. Same with Oz & Mallet. If you're going to play them, play them in a way that gets you wins.
There are guys out there that you just can't win with. I get that. But putting them in situations you know they aren't suited for (i.e. Lamar Miller up the A-Gap on 1st down) is not trying to win. It's trying to prove a point & you as a fan deserve better than that.
Mallett was a rhythm player. But play calling was not conducive to getting a rhythm started. I understand the league has spoken on Ryan Mallett, still I believe we could have gave him a better opportunity to help our team win just calling more slants to Aj on one side & Hop on the other side. (Honestly don't think Aj was on the team with Mallett, but I blame O'b for that too).
Kubiak had his "system" & that's the way he coached. Still he found ways to make a statue of a QB a passing leader.
O'b came in preaching multiple. Short of "coaching" Watson I haven't seen anything "multiple" about his offense.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Mallet was garbage & as with a lot of these players that have been released here, the league spoke. And save for a few, the consensus among the league is that most were not very good bordering on terrible.
Can't be multiple with guys who can only thrive 1 way.
Especially if you don't try.
I want to comment on your other 2 posts but you're on fire so all I can say is carry on.
# Truth
So you think BOB during playoff runs wasn't trying?
# You've been drinking too much.
They would love it just like I'm sure Gaine loves it.
Difference is would people be as critical as they are of a rookie GM without a 1st/2nd rd pick trying to rebuild the roster fixing the S/TE/ST's in their 1st draft without all of the hatred of BOB?
If an under talented roster can go on a 5 game winning streak and fans still aren't happy I dont know what to say. I guess I didn't expect much out of this team so this is a bonus to me. Good news is unlike the past Gaine is going to build a contender for the 1st time in franchise history if his 1st draft is any sort of an indicator.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
When is the hashtag nonsense going to die? Aaack.
You old fart...
So then you are giving credit to Rick Smith for the defense then?
And O'Brien wanted Mallet and Hoyer because they were in New England and familiar with his system. He wasted his first two years here with that Mallet nonsense. Two years of great defense he wasted.
Reminder that he picked Mallet over Fitzpatrick and Keenum (two decent backups) not just on the roster but to start games. He can't evaluate offensive talent.
And it was OBriens call to remake the OL for his system. Why would Rick dismantle his own OL that was top 10?
Rick was always just a guy who got the players the coach wants. Even OBrien said this.
Besides he's gone this year and everything looks exactly the same. How many years of alignment do we need before we can stop blaming Rick for everything?
They've invested plenty on offense:
Fuller first round
Watson first round
Nick Martin second round
Lamar Miller free agency
Fulton free agency
Two more TEs drafted
A bunch of gadget players OBrien loves (Strong, Braxton, Ervin, now Coutee)
XSF
Either OBrien is making bad evaluations or not using some of these guys correctly because the offense is bottom 10 every year. Or maybe his system and playcalling just suck.
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When you can admit that you've ever been wrong about anything.
In other words NEVER.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
I didn't think Donald would get the nomination.
And I expected you to stop lying about "none."
Sometimes I think OB purposely doesn't use a players obvious skillset because it's too obvious and defenses will be prepared for those skillsets. OB is either too plain jane or too cutesy in his play calling. Kubiak is head and shoulders better as a football coach but he tended to go turtle when he had a lead. IMHO, of course.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
At times that's undoubtedly true. On the other hand, those 15 play 12 minute drives gave huge rest breaks to the D and limited comeback time dramatically. Somewhere in between would have been much more satisfying. One more TD before setting the turtle in motion.
I'm still baffled by OB doing jack with 2:47 going into halftime in the last game. He didn't go turtle, he went ostrich.
LOL.
I'm pretty sure you know what I mean.
But good job proving the exception to the rule.
This is a fair criticism of BOB and unless he changes this will end up holding the franchise back.
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