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FIRE O'BRIEN NOW!!!

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steelbtexan said:
He wasn't in charge of getting the talent to fix it. Smith chose not to fix the OL in 2017 FA and sat on cap space that he got by trading away a 2nd rder to get rid of Os contract. With that said BOB/Gaine were in charge this past offseason and their backup strategy failed. If they make a trade for Humphries who I would give up a 2nd/3rd for at the trade deadline the entire OL would look much better because they could give more help to Lamm.

What I dont understand is Kelemete was a serviceable at LT for the Saints last yr when he replaced Armstead for a few games. Certainly better than Davenport has shown so far this yr.

On a side note, Holton Hill got an int for the Vikes this week. Harrison is getting better at LT for the Browns.
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I dont think Kelemente is fully healthy, bum knee That said maybe he would be better out there, then use Mancz at guard. Worth a try as long as his injury does not hobble him
 
steelbtexan said:
He wasn't in charge of getting the talent to fix it. Smith chose not to fix the OL in 2017 FA and sat on cap space that he got by trading away a 2nd rder to get rid of Os contract. With that said BOB/Gaine were in charge this past offseason and their backup strategy failed. If they make a trade for Humphries who I would give up a 2nd/3rd for at the trade deadline the entire OL would look much better because they could give more help to Lamm.

What I dont understand is Kelemete was a serviceable at LT for the Saints last yr when he replaced Armstead for a few games. Certainly better than Davenport has shown so far this yr.

On a side note, Holton Hill got an int for the Vikes this week. Harrison is getting better at LT for the Browns.
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I dont think Kelemente is fully healthy, bum knee That said maybe he would be better out there, then use Mancz at guard. Worth a try as long as his injury does not hobble him
 
ATXtexanfan said:
Too much to fix in one off season. Not trying to argue but it is what it is
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Agreed, they did what they could with what they had to work with. They were left quite a mess to clean up and they are about 75% thru with the cleanup and have done a good job so far.
 
Mr teX said:
Very much agree with this b/c it lines up with how BoB ascended up the ranks in NE. He was the de facto OC in NE the 2 years after McDaniels left but he was still officially listed only as the qb coach those 2 years. He didn’t get officially named the OC until after those 2 years in 2011. It’s plausible BoB is following this model with the young qb coach Sean Ryan...which means it’s also very possible Ryan is already calling plays as the OC this year...BoB has just not given him the title officially to keep the heat off of him.

If I’m not mistaken too, there was at least talk of Ryan becoming the OC this past offseason as well.
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This is what New England does. Coaches are developed every bit as much as players. Bill O'Brien had 20 years of coaching experience before joining the Patriots, but Belichick had him come in as an Offensive assistant. Not even a position coach. They have to earn everything.

I think that's a big reason Belichick's coaches don't make it. He teaches them how to develop players, not coaches. They need to be able to apply what they've learned to coaches. Maybe that's what O'Brien has been doing. Hard to see... I don't see any player development, wouldn't think the coaches are developing, with no "identity" it's hard to determine what they're "teaching" the players.
 
thunderkyss said:
This is what New England does. Coaches are developed every bit as much as players. Bill O'Brien had 20 years of coaching experience before joining the Patriots, but Belichick had him come in as an Offensive assistant. Not even a position coach. They have to earn everything.

I think that's a big reason Belichick's coaches don't make it. He teaches them how to develop players, not coaches. They need to be able to apply what they've learned to coaches. Maybe that's what O'Brien has been doing. Hard to see... I don't see any player development, wouldn't think the coaches are developing, with no "identity" it's hard to determine what they're "teaching" the players.
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Application is always the key determinant in how effective learning/coaching is and that is always determined by the student/player.
 
Mr teX said:
Application is always the key determinant in how effective learning/coaching is and that is always determined by the student/player.
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While I agree with this, who drafted the guy that didn't/couldn't learn is the most important thing. You want a guy that doesn't draft these type of players.
 
thunderkyss said:
This is what New England does. Coaches are developed every bit as much as players. Bill O'Brien had 20 years of coaching experience before joining the Patriots, but Belichick had him come in as an Offensive assistant. Not even a position coach. They have to earn everything.

I think that's a big reason Belichick's coaches don't make it. He teaches them how to develop players, not coaches. They need to be able to apply what they've learned to coaches. Maybe that's what O'Brien has been doing. Hard to see... I don't see any player development, wouldn't think the coaches are developing, with no "identity" it's hard to determine what they're "teaching" the players.
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I would say the WR group has developed quite nicely. Watson is developing well, he just needs to get healthy. Blue has developed as much as his talent level is. Now if you want to talk OL that's a different story. But have you noticed all of the OL cut after last yr weren't on opening day rosters and XSF/Allen have been inactive. Ironically Clark is the only guy that's starting and he's not good. So there were actual talent problems last yr.
 
DBCooper said:

Max Kellerman lol

I think he may post here!
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I think they hit the nail on its head. O'Brien is yielding mediocre results b/c he's a mediocre to below mediocre type of HC. Since he insists on wearing two hats, you can absolutely apply the same statement to his abilities as OC....only drop the mediocre part.
 
Let your actions speak for themselves BILL .. Stop making the same mistakes BILL ... Stop trying to copy Belichek .... BILLLL.

Dude is a ******* clown. Apart from the professional mistakes he routinely makes and how awfully prepared his teams seem at times, this "no nonsense" personality only works for me when you are a winner.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
I think they hit the nail on its head. O'Brien is yielding mediocre results b/c he's a mediocre to below mediocre type of HC. Since he insists on wearing two hats, you can absolutely apply the same statement to his abilities as OC....only drop the mediocre part.
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I gave Kubiak some slack. He took over a team that didn't know how to win. Four years of losing & taught them how to win. Even in the playoffs. It took forever. But it takes forever to erase four years of losing.

Now O'Brien, he took over a team coming off a losing season, but not four years of suck. His job was to take a mediocre team from mediocrity to good.

Maybe he was handicapped by Rick Smith... I'll give you that. But as a head coach I believe his best attribute should be to influence people. Now if you think Rick Smith is a simpleton, what do you think of the guy who couldn't win Mcnair's favor after four years without the ugly divorce?

We see it in the news conferences. Dude can't control his own emotions. How's he going to teach a 20something kid how to channel his?

But I'm still rooting for him to flip the switch & become the next Bill Walsh.
 
Smith has never been an O'Brien fan. Maybe he, as opposed to some, is willing to reassess.

********************************************

Smith: It’s all on Bill O’Brien, and that’s a good thing

Brian T. Smith , Houston Chronicle Oct. 23, 2018 Updated: Oct. 23, 2018 8:38 p.m.
From a bad 0-3 to a somewhat convincing 4-3 in the backward AFC South.

Are these Texans actually good?

Who can argue with four consecutive wins?

Deshaun Watson cares so much about winning that he rode a freaking bus to Jacksonville, Fla. So you have to kind of be into the Texans right now. Right?

This, I know: Bill O’Brien’s team should be 5-3 after beating Brock Osweiler’s team before a nationally televised audience on another short-week episode of “Thursday Night Football.”

And while the difference between 5-3 and 4-4 is rather significant when it comes to buying into the Texans as this already-crazy 2018 NFL season reaches a midway point, there’s no denying that O’Brien enters Week 8 again doing what he does best.

More with less.

Winning when counted out.

Somehow finding a way.

“That’s the sign of a well-coached team. To keep guys focused in a time of chaos — well, at least what people think is chaos,” veteran cornerback Johnathan Joseph said Tuesday at NRG Stadium, as the Texans inched closer toward an unexpected reunion with their (former) $72 million man. “The locker room never splintered. Nobody ever started pointing fingers. None of that happened. He kept us focused, kept us working, stayed to what he believes in and right now we’re sitting where we need to be, atop of the AFC South.”

You hate it when O’Brien blames himself after defeats.

Horrible playcalling, he says. Time management (bleep), he says. Slow starts and red-zone woes.

You just want the W and forward progress from your NFL team.

I fully get that. Even when the Texans win, O’Brien can be blunt and confrontational. Considering he’s 35-36 on Kirby Drive since 2014, the it’s-all-on-me approach was wearing thin before Osweiler even put on red and blue.

“I think you guys are unbelievable. … People say you don’t play well. Do you have any idea on how hard it is to win an NFL football game?” said O’Brien, after a 20-7 road victory against the Jaguars, which was easily the Texans’ most impressive win of the season. “It’s the most difficult thing to do in professional sports, to go out and win an NFL football game.”

It’s not as hard as beating the 108-win Red Sox in the American League Championship Series. And I’ll always believe that trying to hit a 99 mph fastball, 86 mph slider and 79 mph curveball — in the same at-bat — is the most difficult thing in pro sports. But that is neither here nor there when Houston’s professional football team has won four consecutive games and potentially saved its season.

Watson is playing through multiple injuries and O’Brien is still winning. The Texans rank 21st out of 32 teams in average scoring (22.1), but O’Brien’s squad — again led by Romeo Crennel’s relentless defense — is the only crew in the division above .500. And when the Texans stick together after 0-3, what does the fiery fifth-year coach do? He publicly hands all credit to the players who didn’t give in after the Texans lost at home to the now 1-6 New York Giants.

“J.J. Watt, Johnathan Joseph, Tyrann Mathieu, Deshaun Watson, DeAndre Hopkins, Brian Peters,” O’Brien said. “The leaders on special teams. Brennan Scarlett, Johnson Bademosi. I mean, these are high character guys in that locker room that really understand what it means to work hard. … These guys really stuck with it and now we’ve got a chance to really do something, but we have to do it.”

That probably doesn’t scream Super Bowl LIII to you. But it’s annually brought out the best in O’Brien’s Texans and is one of the main reasons he was brought back after a 4-12 campaign.
O’Brien is still trying to build something on Kirby. Sometimes it impresses and catches your eye. Sometimes it all falls apart. But the work always continues and his team has been in the playoff chase during four of his five seasons.

THE REST OF THE STORY
 
More with less.

Winning when counted out.

Somehow finding a way.

“That’s the sign of a well-coached team.To keep guys focused in a time of chaos — well, at least what people think is chaos,” veteran cornerback Johnathan Joseph




.....a well-coached team doesn't commit the most false start penalties in the league, commit countless red zone penalties, has terrible red zone offensive statistics, or five years running repeatedly plays shitty ass games with no discernable identity ending up needing to continually scratch and claw some games out to reach a hollow, pointless record and become divisional paper champions on the way to being MeToo'ed in the playoffs on more than one occasion.

A well-coached team doesn't find itself in the positions we find ourselves in games five years running.

But hey, Joseph is on the team. Sure. OK. Whatever. He knows best I guess. We just watch, or something.
 
They decided to frame the Texans as a well coached team... now. The team that won four in a row. Not the team that lost the first three.

Not that I agree, but it does show this was a different team in October than it was in September. Leading me to believe this will be a different team in November, different still in December.

That's what I like about the NFL, each season is a Journey to the playoffs & in January we see battle tested teams Duke it.
 
I saw well designed plays, designed to get His WRs open. Even with two man routes, safeties had to chose between "bad decisions" & "not as bad" decisions.

I saw timely use of help for the OTs. Not every play, but when & where it made sense.

I don't think Watson missed as many Mike calls, today.

& I saw gaping wholes between the Tackles.

& probably the best Thursday night game I've ever seen.
 
TheMatrix31 said:
Looks like the only agenda poster here is you. I've given O'Brien and the team credit for this game. So has Scooter. And we're two of the most vocal about our problems with the team's coaching.
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The fact that u responded says more about you and your agenda than anything I said. Wasn’t even talking about you honestly. But since u responded with the backhanded garbage, you’ll get the response.

I was talking about the moron talking about the offense looking the same.

It looks the same b/c it is the same offense..it hasn’t changed from when we were 0-3. The major difference is Watson’s playing much better and the overall execution by the players is better...so much so that’s reflected on the scoreboard.

You saw on the Dolphins sideline what a badly coached team looks like. The players literally quit on the field and the defensive coach was throwing I-pads. That’s never been the case for BoB’s teams...even when we went 4-12 last year.

But I get it, ya’ll have to hold your stance. And the minute this team loses another game it’s “I told u so..”
 
Mr teX said:
The fact that u responded says more about you and your agenda than anything I said. Wasn’t even talking about you honestly. But since u responded with the backhanded garbage, you’ll get the response.

I was talking about the moron talking about the offense looking the same.

It looks the same b/c it is the same offense..it hasn’t changed from when we were 0-3. The major difference is Watson’s playing much better and the overall execution by the players is better...so much so that’s reflected on the scoreboard.

You saw on the Dolphins sideline what a badly coached team looks like. The players literally quit on the field and the defensive coach was throwing I-pads. That’s never been the case for BoB’s teams...even when we went 4-12 last year.

But I get it, ya’ll have to hold your stance. And the minute this team loses another game it’s “I told u so..”
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I don't see that post. Who said the offense looked the same?
 
Thorn said:
I hate O'Briney as much as the next O'Brineypoo hater. But even an ardent OB hater such as myself can see how obvious the improvement in the red zone is. Credit where credit is due.
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To be fair, it didn't take much to show improvement as bad as they've been.

To me, even if OB wins a 3rd division title, that doesn't make him a good coach. I've seen 5 years of this guy. He's not a good OC, he's not a good clock manager, he's not a good play caller.

That said, the players still back him, still play for him, so it is what it is.

I don't like him but I don't want the Texans losing just to get rid of him. Just win. I don't care who you are.
 
Speedy said:
To be fair, it didn't take much to show improvement as bad as they've been.

To me, even if OB wins a 3rd division title, that doesn't make him a good coach. I've seen 5 years of this guy. He's not a good OC, he's not a good clock manager, he's not a good play caller.

That said, the players still back him, still play for him, so it is what it is.

I don't like him but I don't want the Texans losing just to get rid of him. Just win. I don't care who you are.
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They probably do, but are they backing him or eachother? Watson gives O'Brien the cold shoulder a couple weeks ago (and wasn't exactly respectful during the headphone malfunction*), but we saw today every touchdown ball got handed to an offensive lineman.

Was that a malfunction or was the call not matching Watson's playsheet? Watson was pointing to his ears, then to his wristband - then started shooting daggers after the timeout.
 
Extend O`Brien now! :kitten:

But in all seriousness his playcalling was way improved in the last two games. I still really hope we get a capable OC sooner than later.
 
sluggo832004 said:
I think with the texans soft schedule they can weazel their way into the playoffs and possibly get a home game. You never know after that.

But Obrien has clearly showed he has no cohones and makes bad decisions.
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But you said fire him even if he wins the SB - you don't think Texans wouldn't be the laughing stock of the league?
 
Texansphan said:
So OB gets all the bad rap for losing and no credit when they win?
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Seems pretty consistent. For most here, he's not getting blamed for losing or credit for winning. He's getting blamed for talent, scheme, routes, blocking, teaching, management - gameday calls, misused talent, adjustments and management.
 
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