Death to Google Ads! Texans Talk Tip Jar! 🍺😎👍
Thanks for your support!

FIRE O'BRIEN NOW!!!

Status
Not open for further replies.
otisbean said:
I think our biggest problem is the offensive system itself. A while back Stoerner said when he watches our offense we do very little to help the QB pre snap, and he wasn’t impressed with our schemes overall. He said it was like OB wanted our guys to out athlete the other team. I think he’s 100% on the money. This is why we have issues against pro bowl caliber defenses, the overall level of player is higher and it’s harder to “out-athlete” Them. Also, look at the difference in our offense when Fuller plays. To me, it’s night and day. Fuller out-athletes almost every DB he plays against.

Furthermore, Wade Smith has repeatedly said our blocking schemes are incredibly difficult for our OL. In particular, he has said our system asks Martin to do things at center that would be difficult for a HOF level player to do.

I’m no expert and I can sit there during an offensive series and call run or pass with 95% accuracy based on formation. That’s not good.

Im no OB lover, but there are some things about him as a HC I like, mostly his ability to get guys to play hard. I wish he would swallow his pride and hire a really good OC and let him do his job. I think he would take a step forward as a HC, and our team would be better as a result
Click to expand...

Agreed,

I forget who called Stoerner a country bumpkin but Stoerner is actually a pretty smart guy who made the most out of his ability.

I also agree with Smith and Devlin needs to go. He should've been gone 2 yrs ago.
 
steelbtexan said:
Nope, I would trade W atson for a top 2 draft pick and draft Burrow or Herbert. Plus I would recoup some of the draft picks everybody on here are clamoring for.
Click to expand...
That's very provocative of you SteelB but something to kick around I suppose. Watson does have flaws in his game and in his third year he remains highly inconsistent.
But seriously don't you think trading him is extremely unlikely because he's now so popular in the city and has become the face of the franchise ?
 
IDEXAN said:
That's very provocative of you SteelB but something to kick around I suppose. Watson does have flaws in his game and in his third year he remains highly inconsistent.
But seriously don't you think trading him is extremely unlikely because he's now so popular in the city and has become the face of the franchise ?
Click to expand...

They aren't going to trade him and I expect the next 5 yrs to be like the Moon yrs. I hope I'm wrong and Watson does start learning how to read defenses better and learn to step up into the pocket and deliver the ball accurately. Most importantly he needs to learn to throw the ball away when nothing is there.

After 3 yrs I think it's fair to have these doubts. We can thank RS for his last parting shot.
 
badboy said:
Just to clarify how does trading Watson necessarily Mean going back to those types of quarterbacks? Depends on the trade doesn't it? Allegedly from a prior post 30 teams want Watson. Make me an offer?

Miami gets Watson
Texans :
1.5 QB Jacob Eason
1.16 CB Kristina Fuller or Jaylon Johnson
1.25 Edge Curtis Weaver
and then our own

2.54 WR Gabriel Davis
Click to expand...
The question was formed around historical background of this team under O’Brien. It wasn’t a giant leap to make the assumption the Texans would be stuck in quarterback purgatory if Watson were to be traded. My assumption is O’Brien with complete control of this team would bring in only quarterbacks he thinks are intelligent enough to grasp his genius level offense. In short he’d be searching for Tom Brady. Hell, that might be the trade! Watson (and probably draft picks) for back-end career TB.

This was all written tongue in cheek. I believe the relationship between BoB and Watson is a good one. I don’t think OB has any design to trade Watson. The question to steel was to probe his views on the two men and the depth of his dislike of Watson.
 
Last edited:
steelbtexan said:
They aren't going to trade him and I expect the next 5 yrs to be like the Moon yrs. I hope I'm wrong and Watson does start learning how to read defenses better and learn to step up into the pocket and deliver the ball accurately. Most importantly he needs to learn to throw the ball away when nothing is there.

After 3 yrs I think it's fair to have these doubts. We can thank RS for his last parting shot.
Click to expand...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1197722077547126786
 
JB said:
Who besides SteelB has said that?
Hyperbole to dig at Steel?
Some think Watson is perfect
i think he still has some progressing/learning to do
Click to expand...

I think you will find that more people agree with you that Watson has some progressing/learning to do than think he is perfect or trash.
 
Earl34 said:
I think you will find that more people agree with you that Watson has some progressing/learning to do than think he is perfect or trash.
Click to expand...

Yes, but the latter much more vocal and antagonistic
 
steelbtexan said:
Your point?
Click to expand...

Many people can agree that Manning is one of the smartest and greatest QBs in NFL history. With the possible exception of Tom Brady, all QBs have playoff failures and some of their worst performances are in the playoffs. Do you recall the criticism of Manning? It was that he put up great stats in the regular season and failed in the playoffs.
  • In his first three playoff games, Manning was 0-3 with 1TD and 3 INTs.
  • On his way to winning Super Bowl XLI, Manning threw 3 TDs and 7 INTs in the playoffs.
  • In the Super Bowl, the running game with Dominic Rhodes and Joseph Addai rushed for over 200 yards to lead the offense. Manning was not the catalyst behind that Super Bowl playoff run
  • Even in the Denver Super Bowl win, a washed up Manning only threw for 141 yards.
My point? With only 33 games under his belt, you have made your mind up about Watson's career. I'm not saying Watson is Manning, but not even the great Peyton Manning would meet some of the expectations you are putting on Watson. Manning threw 81 INTs in his first four seasons. As a GM, you would have claimed he can't read defenses, not progressing and traded him for a bag of peanuts. That's my point.
 
steelbtexan said:
I don't think anybody thinks he's trash.
Click to expand...

Based on your posts, he can't read defenses, is not progressing, Smith can't coach him, O'Brien has to install a college offense for him to be effective, he can only make 2 reads per play, he misses wide open receivers, he's inaccurate, he is not good enough to win in the playoffs and doesn't deserve getting paid the market rate for QBs. Sounds like trash to me.
 
Earl34 said:
Many people can agree that Manning is one of the smartest and greatest QBs in NFL history. With the possible exception of Tom Brady, all QBs have playoff failures and some of their worst performances are in the playoffs. Do you recall the criticism of Manning? It was that he put up great stats in the regular season and failed in the playoffs.
  • In his first three playoff games, Manning was 0-3 with 1TD and 3 INTs.
  • On his way to winning Super Bowl XLI, Manning threw 3 TDs and 7 INTs in the playoffs.
  • In the Super Bowl, the running game with Dominic Rhodes and Joseph Addai rushed for over 200 yards to lead the offense. Manning was not the catalyst behind that Super Bowl playoff run
  • Even in the Denver Super Bowl win, a washed up Manning only threw for 141 yards.
My point? With only 33 games under his belt, you have made your mind up about Watson's career. I'm not saying Watson is Manning, but not even the great Peyton Manning would meet some of the expectations you are putting on Watson. Manning threw 81 INTs in his first four seasons. As a GM, you would have claimed he can't read defenses, not progressing and traded him for a bag of peanuts. That's my point.
Click to expand...

Manning was a choker Brady was his daddy.

Manning would not won one of those SB's if the officials hadn't screwed Belichick/ Brady in the AFCCG. The Bears SB.
 
Earl34 said:
Based on your posts, he can't read defenses, is not progressing, Smith can't coach him, O'Brien has to install a college offense for him to be effective, he can only make 2 reads per play, he misses wide open receivers, he's inaccurate, he is not good enough to win in the playoffs and doesn't deserve getting paid the market rate for QBs. Sounds like trash to me.
Click to expand...

As of right now now this is true.

Hopefully he can improve, but the last 2 games should give fans reason to pause.
 
ROO said:
I would answer "yes" to that question. But just to clarify, you are saying that O'Brien has a better chance of becoming a great NFL coach than Watson has of becoming a great NFL quarterback?
Click to expand...

Both of them are . middling for different reasons.
 
Texansballer74 said:
He's not progressing some would say. Lol
Click to expand...
No is being said by some that he is really good but has not progress enough from his second year to his third as many if not most QBs do. I happen to agree with that. Some of that is on coaching but it's silly to deny that some is on the player. I also think that there is too much stress being put on his next contract when he is in his rookie contract through next season. Management has rest of this season and all of next year to evaluate how much to offer him. The only significant Next Step is on his fifth year option and as of today I don't hear anyone saying that should not happen. People are freaking out over re-signing Watson and Tunsil when in my opinion they should just chill. There will be enough cap space to sign our starting quarterback and Blindside tackle. there is a risk that waiting will drive the cost up but both are going to get ridiculous contracts anyway. in my opinion it's a greater risk especially with Watson to pay them before you have to.
 
ROO said:
I would answer "yes" to that question. But just to clarify, you are saying that O'Brien has a better chance of becoming a great NFL coach than Watson has of becoming a great NFL quarterback?
Click to expand...

My answer was supposed to be "yes". I changed the direction of the question and failed to change the answer.....thanks for catching this.

OB has had a year at Penn St and 6 years with the Texans and he's failed to improve his QB's of choice or his game management skills. It's time for a change.
 
Earl34 said:
Based on your posts, he can't read defenses, is not progressing, Smith can't coach him, O'Brien has to install a college offense for him to be effective, he can only make 2 reads per play, he misses wide open receivers, he's inaccurate, he is not good enough to win in the playoffs and doesn't deserve getting paid the market rate for QBs. Sounds like trash to me.
Click to expand...

Here's the reality.......the best and most unstoppable the Texans offense has looked during OB's tenure was when he finally modified his playbook to Watson's skill set. The problem I have had with this shite.....how is that OB doesn't see what everyone else see's? Is he just that stubborn and egotistical to allow this team to enjoy ongoing success offensively by running something that wasn't in his green notebook to begin with?

I see OB as being very scared to hire anyone who he thinks could easily replace him. He has surrounded himself with weak coaches who just enjoy their positions as "yes" men to stroke his ego and cater to his self-doubt.
 
Mr teX said:
I see changing HC's as nothing but excuses fans use to protect their rooting interests in individual players. See it all over the league...in every league...every year. Fans will continuously make excuses for the player on the field b/c they like said player, but are quick to throw the HC out to pasture & your post says it all.

BoB deserves to be fired if he can't get this team over the hump this year..& by over the hump I mean at least to the divisional round of the playoffs. But I'm under no illusions that the next guy that comes in is the guy that has the magic touch. Most of these guys are recycled anyway & have had varying degrees of success everywhere they've played/coached. So there's no reason to believe that they will fare any better than their predecessor until they actually do it HERE.
Click to expand...

Making the Divisional Round would be winning the Wildcard Game........That is pretty low expectations. I would say BoB should be gone unless he plays in the Conference Championship. He has had his chance. Get a HC in here along with a OC and a GM.
 
banned1976 said:
Honest question-would you be okay with the Texans trading Watson and going back to stopgap QB’s until the opportunity presents itself that they can draft one? If it was between O’Brien or Watson your preference would be to go back to the Osweiler’s/Hoyers/Savages of the NFL?
Click to expand...

There are people on here who would trade Watson. He is probably in the top 5 QB if not better and after all of these years there are people on this board who would rather have the stop gap method of QB. Before Watson, the best QB the team has had was Schaub. We finally have a real QB.
 
badboy said:
No is being said by some that he is really good but has not progress enough from his second year to his third as many if not most QBs do. I happen to agree with that. Some of that is on coaching but it's silly to deny that some is on the player. I also think that there is too much stress being put on his next contract when he is in his rookie contract through next season. Management has rest of this season and all of next year to evaluate how much to offer him. The only significant Next Step is on his fifth year option and as of today I don't hear anyone saying that should not happen. People are freaking out over re-signing Watson and Tunsil when in my opinion they should just chill. There will be enough cap space to sign our starting quarterback and Blindside tackle. there is a risk that waiting will drive the cost up but both are going to get ridiculous contracts anyway. in my opinion it's a greater risk especially with Watson to pay them before you have to.
Click to expand...


That is not what a few of them are saying. And IMO he has progressed a lot since last season. But like I said the coaches is not doing him and entire offense any justice. They want to change up the offense every week according to what defenses they're playing. My thing is why don't we run what's been successful thus far this season and make them adjust to you. Have yall not notice Watson has sustained a lot of sacks and hit during those games in which we tried to run our basic offensive plan? During the games in which we ran mix direction plays. RPO's, getting Watson out the pocket, he was barely touched.

So I will ask you this question. When will Bill O'Brien progress? Why isn't he held to the same type of standards? Six years in and he's still making the same coaching mistakes.
 
badboy said:
No is being said by some that he is really good but has not progress enough from his second year to his third as many if not most QBs do. I happen to agree with that. Some of that is on coaching but it's silly to deny that some is on the player. I also think that there is too much stress being put on his next contract when he is in his rookie contract through next season. Management has rest of this season and all of next year to evaluate how much to offer him. The only significant Next Step is on his fifth year option and as of today I don't hear anyone saying that should not happen. People are freaking out over re-signing Watson and Tunsil when in my opinion they should just chill. There will be enough cap space to sign our starting quarterback and Blindside tackle. there is a risk that waiting will drive the cost up but both are going to get ridiculous contracts anyway. in my opinion it's a greater risk especially with Watson to pay them before you have to.
Click to expand...
I would hape they'd get settled at GM for the longer term before they move on a big new contract with either Watson or Tunsil.
In other words we should have an experienced and competent person at GM (unlike O'Brian) before they embark on either mission.
 
Texansballer74 said:
That is not what a few of them are saying. And IMO he has progressed a lot since last season. But like I said the coaches is not doing him and entire offense any justice. They want to change up the offense every week according to what defenses they're playing. My thing is why don't we run what's been successful thus far this season and make them adjust to you. Have yall not notice Watson has sustained a lot of sacks and hit during those games in which we tried to run our basic offensive plan? During the games in which we ran mix direction plays. RPO's, getting Watson out the pocket, he was barely touched.

So I will ask you this question. When will Bill O'Brien progress? Why isn't he held to the same type of standards? Six years in and he's still making the same coaching mistakes.
Click to expand...

Good defenses know how to stop the RPO's and make Watson throw from the pocket. Like I said I wish BOB would open up the offense and let Watson succeed or fail. I can just imagine how this MB would be when the Texans miss the playoffs because BOB made this choice.
 
steelbtexan said:
Good defenses know how to stop the RPO's and make Watson throw from the pocket. Like I said I wish BOB would open up the offense and let Watson succeed or fail. I can just imagine how this MB would be when the Texans miss the playoffs because BOB made this choice.
Click to expand...
Should O’Brien design plays for Duke Johnson only to run the ball up the gut? Succeed or fail, Duke. Never mind it’s not something you do well.

It wouldn’t make sense. Just like handcuffing your young QB to do things he’s not good, at least at this point in his career, doesn’t make sense.

My bottom line is both men need to get on the same page and improve together now or changes need to occur. And because he’s been here longer and had his chances already it’s O’Brien that needs to go. I don’t feel that’s unfair.
 
steelbtexan said:
Good defenses know how to stop the RPO's and make Watson throw from the pocket. Like I said I wish BOB would open up the offense and let Watson succeed or fail. I can just imagine how this MB would be when the Texans miss the playoffs because BOB made this choice.
Click to expand...


Good defenses knows how to stop O’Briens predictable schemes too. The Ravens seemed to know exactly what we were running. The Colts completely shut our running game down through three quarters and made sure to keep a fast LB as a spy on Watson. A great defense knows exactly how to stop even the great Tom Brady and Peyton Manning. So again please stop trying use that against a young D. Watson.
 
steelbtexan said:
Great,

Moon had HOF numbers, tell me more about his playoff games

Unless Watson improves I see his career path going like Moon's. Great player with alot of playoff failures and it doesn't really matter who the HC is.
Click to expand...
Still, just imagine with #s like that what he could be...
Something has to change - ergo, time for a new OC.
 
banned1976 said:
Should O’Brien design plays for Duke Johnson only to run the ball up the gut? Succeed or fail, Duke. Never mind it’s not something you do well.

It wouldn’t make sense. Just like handcuffing your young QB to do things he’s not good, at least at this point in his career, doesn’t make sense.

My bottom line is both men need to get on the same page and improve together now or changes need to occur. And because he’s been here longer and had his chances already it’s O’Brien that needs to go. I don’t feel that’s unfair.
Click to expand...

You have to run Duke up the middle occasionally to keep the defense honest. If you threw every time Duke was in the game DC's would pick up on this trend. With that said I too wish that they wouldn't run the ball up the middle as much as they do.

How do you get better at something if you never do it? I mean BOB changed up the offense for him. What more do you want?

I'm for letting BOB go but until Watson learns to do the things I mentioned it wont matter who the HC is and you can expect more of the same old same old.
 
Texansballer74 said:
Good defenses knows how to stop O’Briens predictable schemes too. The Ravens seemed to know exactly what we were running. The Colts completely shut our running game down through three quarters and made sure to keep a fast LB as a spy on Watson. A great defense knows exactly how to stop even the great Tom Brady and Peyton Manning. So again please stop trying use that against a young D. Watson.
Click to expand...

You don get what I'm trying to say. If BOB's scheme is so predictable then why does it work sometimes and other times it doesn't? Are some teams coaches just that much better than others? I'm sure when Belichick confuses Watson again this week it will be all BOB's fault.

We will never agree because I dont think BOB/Smith is coaching Watson to hold the ball too long/Or scramble to his right when he feels pressure.

I also think you're taking the easy way out trying to blame everything on BOB when the last 2 games should've shown you where Watson needs to improve, but it wont unfortunately.
 
steelbtexan said:
You have to run Duke up the middle occasionally to keep the defense honest. If you threw every time Duke was in the game DC's would pick up on this trend. With that said I too wish that they wouldn't run the ball up the middle as much as they do.

How do you get better at something if you never do it? I mean BOB changed up the offense for him. What more do you want?

I'm for letting BOB go but until Watson learns to do the things I mentioned it wont matter who the HC is and you can expect more of the same old same old.
Click to expand...


I am watching the Saints vs Panthers game. The Panthers just utilized McCaffrey out the backfield in the passing game during their last two series. Not one time they ran him up the freaking middle. Both drives lead to scores. So you it's not farfetched to use a back like that.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ROO
steelbtexan said:
You don get what I'm trying to say. If BOB's scheme is so predictable then why does it work sometimes and other times it doesn't? Are some teams coaches just that much better than others? I'm sure when Belichick confuses Watson again this week it will be all BOB's fault.

We will never agree because I dont think BOB/Smith is coaching Watson to hold the ball too long/Or scramble to his right when he feels pressure.

I also think you're taking the easy way out trying to blame everything on BOB when the last 2 games should've shown you where Watson needs to improve, but it wont unfortunately.
Click to expand...


You should know that, especially if you are watching the games.
 
Texansballer74 said:
I am watching the Saints vs Panthers game. The Panthers just utilized McCaffrey out the backfield in the passing game during their last two series. Not one time they ran him up the freaking middle. Both drives lead to scores. So you it's not farfetched to use a back like that.
Click to expand...

I'm watching that game off and on too. They ran McCaffery up the middle on 2-3 runs in the 1st qtr. The difference is McCaffery is a 3 down RB that gets 3 times the touches Duke gets. Are you saying you want Hyde benched more often so Duke can get more touches? If so I disagree.
 
steelbtexan said:
I'm watching that game off and on too. They ran McCaffery up the middle on 2-3 runs in the 1st qtr. The difference is McCaffery is a 3 down RB that gets 3 times the touches Duke gets. Are you saying you want Hyde benched more often so Duke can get more touches? If so I disagree.
Click to expand...

In the 1st quarter. But I said the entire second quarter they threw to him out the backfield for two straight series.

And no I didn't say that. If you didn't read it don't assume it.
 
steelbtexan said:
?
Click to expand...
Against the Ravens, Did we run the same offense that we ran against the Chiefs, Chargers, Falcons, Raiders, and Jaguars? If you say yes, then it's very clear you're not watching the game.

You do know the Chargers and Jaguars defenses are pretty darn good right. So your claim about Watson not be able to play good against stout defenses is wrong.
 
steelbtexan said:
Great,

Moon had HOF numbers, tell me more about his playoff games

Unless Watson improves I see his career path going like Moon's. Great player with alot of playoff failures and it doesn't really matter who the HC is.
Click to expand...

LOL. The majority of the Oilers playoff failures were on Defense (35-3 lead, hello). The Oilers defenses let them down ALOT....and they had ALOT of talent.
 
steelbtexan said:
Nope, I would trade W atson for a top 2 draft pick and draft Burrow or Herbert. Plus I would recoup some of the draft picks everybody on here are clamoring for.
Click to expand...

LOL. I think your problem with Watson is that he is a little to "Tan" for you. You want to give up Watson for THOSE to QBs, you have OTHER issues. Neither of those QBs has show ANYTHING close to Watson in College.
If you think the NFL thinks the Texans are a laughing stock, just wait until you trade Watson for what you are proposing...LOL.
 
Mr.Scarface said:
LOL. I think your problem with Watson is that he is a little to "Tan" for you. You want to give up Watson for THOSE to QBs, you have OTHER issues. Neither of those QBs has show ANYTHING close to Watson in College.
If you think the NFL thinks the Texans are a laughing stock, just wait until you trade Watson for what you are proposing...LOL.
Click to expand...

Race Card has been played, duly noted. BTW, Mahomes/Brissett are 2 of my favorite QB's. I think Brissett is better than Watson when healthy.

Burrow is going to win the Heisman and has looked every bit of the franchise QB

I get what your saying about letting Watson go, but know this, I believe what I believe and that's that unless Watson changes his style of play there will be no SB's on Kirby. Can he do this? sure he can? Will he do it? He hasn't in 3 yrs.
 
steelbtexan said:
Race Card has been played, duly noted.

BTW, Burrow is going to win the Heisman and has looked every bit of the franchise QB

I get what your saying about letting Watson go, but know this, I believe what I believe and that's that unless Watson changes his style of play there will be no SB's on Kirby. Can he do this? sure he can? Will he do it? He hasn't in 3 yrs.
Click to expand...

Burrow is going to win the Heisman. Who is his competition for the Heisman? LOL...down year for that. How many Heisman QBs have been ANY GOOD? Burrow has played an Alabama that is no where near as good as the 2 Watson played in the NC games (Those Ds were considered 2 of the best in Alabama history). Burrow has ONE year of good games and another year of decent play. Yeah, let's trade him for Watson. LAUGHING STOCK....assured.

:toropalm:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top