I will tell you Jones is the same avg guy that he was here.
Philly figured out what was causing Brooks stomach problems and got a steal.
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I will tell you Jones is the same avg guy that he was here.
Philly figured out what was causing Brooks stomach problems and got a steal.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Exactly,
It's amazing to me how quickly the Bill O'Brien only fan club members toss around false claims. There is really only one fan who is pretty much a Watson only fan.
TexansBull
Hall of Fame
Where is this fan club?
99% of this board would rather roll the dice and get rid of OB to see Watson in an offense to exploit his strengths.
TexansBull
Hall of Fame
I think the divide came in when people were advocating for Savage to start over Watson. I know I was a proponent because OB seemed to be a dead man walking, the offensive line was in shambles and didn’t want him to get hurt, not to get David Carr’d by getting sacked, and to get the Aaron Rodgers treatment of being able to study and learn the NFL instead of being thrown into the fire.
(Which, BTW, the sacks have taken a tool on him and he ended up getting hurt from a weals line.)
However, there was/is this extremist Watson fan club that didn’t like, and still don’t like, anything to be said that isn’t making him #jesusincleats.
Like I said in another post, 99% of this board is OK with Watson staying and OB going.
If they're going to fire BOB, which they aren't going to do, then I want a new GM/HC/QB and a fresh start.
amazing80
Hall of Fame
We know. No reason to keep repeating it.
You know, not everybody does.
TexansBull
Hall of Fame
I know. That’s why I say 99%. You are the 1%.
Which doesn’t make you bad or a person with the plague. I don’t know why people get so offended and get insulted by that and start getting combative.
You don’t think Watson is the sharpest knife in the drawer and still needs developing and refining? That’s OK if you have that opinion. There is no evil or prejudice behind that statement.
I just get why people act like that or continually bring it up.
I'm not insulted
I'm just giving my opinion of what needs to happen.
Why do people act like that and continually bring this up? I dont get it. Watson's not developing. Is it wrong to point out his flaws?
banned1976
sleeper mode
And you know there’s not going to be a QB change anytime soon. So we’re all stuck with a mediocre team in Houston. Maybe we should all just suck it up and quit bitching back and forth about Watson and O’Brien. It’s not like we’re going to change our opinions. Well, actually I have changed my opinion on Watson this year. He’s very sporadic and he’s had three terrible games this year. That’s not how elite QB’s perform.
Regrettably, Watson is on the same level as O’Brien. Which is why I don’t expect this team to be anything more than what history has showed us already. They’re basically the Chargers.
Mr.Scarface
Rookie
There are about 30 other teams (Chiefs/Ravens excluded) that will Happily pay Watson that money (Patriots included).
Good for them.
The point is, how do you pay a guy 35-40 mil that's not progressing.
markn
All Pro
Every other OC in the league will believe they can get more out of Watson. Most of them are correct.
banned1976
sleeper mode
Honest question-would you be okay with the Texans trading Watson and going back to stopgap QB’s until the opportunity presents itself that they can draft one? If it was between O’Brien or Watson your preference would be to go back to the Osweiler’s/Hoyers/Savages of the NFL?
dream_team
Hall of Fame
I DO think he is progressing.
If Watson isn't developing, then that is on the coaching staff. They aren't coaching him in a manner that he can learn from. Is Watson holding the ball too long? Absolutely. Is he trying to hit a home run too often? Absolutely.
If I were HC of the Texans, I would've yanked Watson in the Ravens debacle and seen what I had in McCarron. If McCarron was taking what the defense was giving and moving the chains, I'd have Watson on a very short leash against the Colts. If Watson was truly a RS pick, I would have definitely put McCarron in during the Ravens game to specifically test McCarron to give myself deniability.
Nope, I would trade W atson for a top 2 draft pick and draft Burrow or Herbert. Plus I would recoup some of the draft picks everybody on here are clamoring for.
If Carl Smith cant teach him then he cant be taught.
Go look at some of the QB's that have learned under Smith's tutalege.
In what ways do you think he's progressing?
Reading defenses? Protecting the ball? Go check out CnD's post in the random Texans thought of the day thread on fumbles etc....
eriadoc
Texan-American
Not sure I buy that part.
You dont know if they're correct or not.
I hope you're right because if they were to trade him his value would be higher if you're correct.
Buy whatever you want too. Obviously you haven't been around me or my friends. I'm blessed to have many friends of different races/persuasions. Some MB members that have been to my draft party know better than what you posted.
Playing the race card because I dont see Watson as progressing or a QB you can win a SB with is very weak sauce and just an attempt to silence me. (Not gonna happen)
Texansballer74
The Marine
Top 6 quarterback in league but he’s not progressing.
Texansballer74
The Marine
No way in hell you’re yanking the franchise like that. Best believe you would be fired right after the game.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Things happen, people respond. We've seen how Phillip Rivers responded. & his coaches.
Watson will get to the playoffs again. I'm curious how he'll respond a 2nd time.
Sometimes he's the best QB in the NFL.
Sometimes (Usually when he's playing playoff level defenses) he's not a top 20 QB. Very inconsistent and repeating the same mistakes. Would you say he's gotten better at reading defenses? I dont think he has.
They've had BOB's identity for yrs.
PapaL
Loose Screw
It’s the new Rick Smith.
Good idea let's take a look (data from Pro-football reference)...
- 1986-96 - Saints: Bobby Hebert, Jim Everett, Wade Wilson
- 1997-99 - Patriots (Pete Carroll's Pats): Drew Bledsoe
- 2001-03 - Browns: Tim Couch, Kelly Holcomb
- 2005-07 - Jaguars: B. Leftwich, D. Garrard
- 2009-10 - Browns: Brady Quinn, Colt McCoy, et.al.
- 2011-17 - Seahawks: Tarvaris Jackson, Russell Wilson.
Outside of Wilson who on that list is (or was) a standout "under Smith'd tutelage"...??
Dude has been around a while, I'll give him that.
I may be in the minority, but I didn't think Andrew Luck progressed at all through most of his career. He came in to the league with a very high understanding of the game & very high skill level.
But he played as if it were rugby.
2018, I saw a totally different guy. A pocket passer. & I think that was because that OL was doing it right in pass pro & the run game.
When Watson is settled & trusts his protection, he's very good.
I know we've invested a lot in the OL the last 8 months, but they're not gelling as well as I'd like to have seen.
They need to make a huge step change... 3 man rush all game & there wasn't a lot of room for Watson to work. Yeah, some of that was happy feet, but the pockets were tiny.
All that to say, too much going wrong right now to blame any one person unless that person is supposed to be responsible for the product on the field.
If we don't ever run the ball on 3rd & 4, our QB is playing from behind.
Two plays got me thinking. The big Carlos Hyde run between the tackles & the 35 yard TD to Hopkins.
Both plays, Watson saw something he recognized & got us to a play to exploit dafuh out of it.
We need to see more of that, on a regular basis, even against playoff calibre defenses.
Bunch of pro Bowlers in there. Back when the Pro Bowl meant something. I thought he also was the QB coach when Brees was there.
Brees was drafted by SD in '01; didn't get to NO until '06.
so Smith had been gone from NO for 10 yrs
according to my 'research' none of those guys made the pro bowl under Smith
Edit: except for Wilson.
Hebert was a pro bowler
powda
The bridge between stupid and useless is short.
I think our ol is regressing. Tunsil and Howard both looked better earlier in the season.
Need new ol coach.
We are slowly but surely carr'ing watson. I suspect it's a combination of things. Bad ol play. Poor reads by Watson. Slow developing plays. Predictable play calling. Etc.
It seems to me - and maybe I'm stupid for this - pass plays might have 2-3 versions. 1) A base play where all intended receivers are on route. 2) a play where the te or rb veto route and block. 3) a play where BOTH te and rb veto route and block.
I don't expect all our pass plays should be like this - just a portion. Use it for those defenses we cant stop. Mark it as red on the dennys menu. Think of it like a RPO play only for blocking.
badboy
Hall of Fame
For GM, head coach or offensive coordinator?
badboy
Hall of Fame
You can! Like this "here is your remaining guaranteed money about 5 million dollars. Your fired." not that that's going to happen with number 4 but it can.
powda
The bridge between stupid and useless is short.
Is this far fetched for a handful of plays? Shouldn't we have route/blocking option plays to beat blitzes?
badboy
Hall of Fame
Just to clarify how does trading Watson necessarily Mean going back to those types of quarterbacks? Depends on the trade doesn't it? Allegedly from a prior post 30 teams want Watson. Make me an offer?
Miami gets Watson
Texans :
1.5 QB Jacob Eason
1.16 CB Kristina Fuller or Jaylon Johnson
1.25 Edge Curtis Weaver
and then our own
2.54 WR Gabriel Davis
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
All that pressure, but I've yet to see a hb screen. It's like it's not even in his playbook. This week, instead of playing out of the ace set, we see 3 te sets? Why
texanhead08
All Pro
That irked me too and we got stuffed on run plays every time we lined up in that formation.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
I guess the burning question should be:
Does Watson's potential to be a great NFL QB exceed OB's potential of becoming a great NFL HC?
My answer is simply, yes. OB's had 6 years to institute his plan. He couldn't work with RS (neither could I), he didn't help Gaines, and he hasn't done himself any favors as well. I've yet to see this team coach up players that didn't arrive with great talent already. OB still has questionable time management skills after 6 seasons. His offense has failed for 6 seasons. Better coaches have been fired for far less.
My dream.....yes dream! Scrape this whole group and go young. Build an organization for the long haul.
1. My GM would be Eliot Wolf. I would only hope he brought along Alonzo Highsmith.
2. I'd make a very stupid offer to Dabo Sweeney and encourage him to bring his staff along for the ride.
3. OB has had 6 seasons to get his shite together. He's somehow had the pink slip held up by getting to reset the clock on his time. He's not going to get better with time and talent. During his 6 year tenure, there have been far too many misses in the draft and and in free agency.....including questionable re-signings of their own players.
I think Sweeney could be the right college coach at the right time for the NFL. His offensive and defensive schemes would need a season or two of modifications for the NFL but once there, might be every bit as dominant as they've been in college.
Having 2 top notch talent evaluators like Wolf and Highsmith could find those players that Sweeney's crew could coach up to become sound NFL players.
Jimmy Johnson and his staff needed a couple of seasons to get adjusted and once they were......well count the SB trophies he won and imagine how many more he might've secured if Jerry Jones hadn't decided he was going to be the smartest guy in the room. See, Jones hasn't sniffed another SB since he became the smartest guy in the room.
Does Watson's potential to be a great NFL QB exceed OB's potential of becoming a great NFL HC?
My answer is simply, yes. OB's had 6 years to institute his plan. He couldn't work with RS (neither could I), he didn't help Gaines, and he hasn't done himself any favors as well. I've yet to see this team coach up players that didn't arrive with great talent already. OB still has questionable time management skills after 6 seasons. His offense has failed for 6 seasons. Better coaches have been fired for far less.
My dream.....yes dream! Scrape this whole group and go young. Build an organization for the long haul.
1. My GM would be Eliot Wolf. I would only hope he brought along Alonzo Highsmith.
2. I'd make a very stupid offer to Dabo Sweeney and encourage him to bring his staff along for the ride.
3. OB has had 6 seasons to get his shite together. He's somehow had the pink slip held up by getting to reset the clock on his time. He's not going to get better with time and talent. During his 6 year tenure, there have been far too many misses in the draft and and in free agency.....including questionable re-signings of their own players.
I think Sweeney could be the right college coach at the right time for the NFL. His offensive and defensive schemes would need a season or two of modifications for the NFL but once there, might be every bit as dominant as they've been in college.
Having 2 top notch talent evaluators like Wolf and Highsmith could find those players that Sweeney's crew could coach up to become sound NFL players.
Jimmy Johnson and his staff needed a couple of seasons to get adjusted and once they were......well count the SB trophies he won and imagine how many more he might've secured if Jerry Jones hadn't decided he was going to be the smartest guy in the room. See, Jones hasn't sniffed another SB since he became the smartest guy in the room.
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I think our biggest problem is the offensive system itself. A while back Stoerner said when he watches our offense we do very little to help the QB pre snap, and he wasn’t impressed with our schemes overall. He said it was like OB wanted our guys to out athlete the other team. I think he’s 100% on the money. This is why we have issues against pro bowl caliber defenses, the overall level of player is higher and it’s harder to “out-athlete” Them. Also, look at the difference in our offense when Fuller plays. To me, it’s night and day. Fuller out-athletes almost every DB he plays against.
Furthermore, Wade Smith has repeatedly said our blocking schemes are incredibly difficult for our OL. In particular, he has said our system asks Martin to do things at center that would be difficult for a HOF level player to do.
I’m no expert and I can sit there during an offensive series and call run or pass with 95% accuracy based on formation. That’s not good.
Im no OB lover, but there are some things about him as a HC I like, mostly his ability to get guys to play hard. I wish he would swallow his pride and hire a really good OC and let him do his job. I think he would take a step forward as a HC, and our team would be better as a result
Furthermore, Wade Smith has repeatedly said our blocking schemes are incredibly difficult for our OL. In particular, he has said our system asks Martin to do things at center that would be difficult for a HOF level player to do.
I’m no expert and I can sit there during an offensive series and call run or pass with 95% accuracy based on formation. That’s not good.
Im no OB lover, but there are some things about him as a HC I like, mostly his ability to get guys to play hard. I wish he would swallow his pride and hire a really good OC and let him do his job. I think he would take a step forward as a HC, and our team would be better as a result
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