If Leach was totally unconcerned about how much he makes, he'd still be with the TEXANS!
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[ESPN] FB Vonta Leach eyes Texans return?
- Thread starter ASidd_1990
- Start date
If Leach was totally unconcerned about how much he makes, he'd still be with the TEXANS!
I hear ya, man. I still have heartburn, though. Like I said earlier, I'm glad I don't have to make these decisions. I would probably make the wrong one in this case. I just have my mad on and can't seem to get over it.
tru80texan
Waterboy
I want to say it was profootball focus who ranked Jones as one of if not the best blocking FB in the past. It had to be prior to 2010 because he has been ranked top 3 by them since 2010. I guess I should've said he was ranked as one of the best in the past as opposed to the best, but I still believe it stands true. Either way, Jones is considered a very good FB in his own right & has been for quite some time. Jones' name as been amongst the best longer then Leach's once you consider that Leach was basically unheard of prior to Arian's rise & Leach was the lead blocker for one of the worst rushing attacks in 2009. Leach is good, but he didnt make or break Arian nor will he do the same to Rice imo.
As far as Jones not getting much attention & accolades, he did play for a very pitiful team in Jacksonville, Florida. I think that kind of explains that for the most part.
I'm happy Jones is here & wish Leach good luck, but I think we possibly got the better of 2 when its all said & done imo.
pissknocker
Waterboy
Word!
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
Tania Ganguli ‏@taniaganguli
Vitolo mentioned financials on whether a leach return could happen. I noted the #Texans cap situation and he said there are always ways.
Leach is still in Miami. Agent on Dolphins: "they have a very strong interest because they need him." #Texans
Vitolo said as this next contract will probably be Leach's last, he wants to be with a contender and where he's comfortable. #Texans
Just spoke with Vonta Leach's agent Ralph Vitolo, who said he spoke with #Texans GM Rick Smith today and there's mutual interest.
Stephanie Stradley ‏@StephStradley
Hard to see Leach #Texans talk as anything other than 1 mutual respect 2 an attempt to generate a market for FB. Barely enuf snaps for 1 FB.
Vitolo mentioned financials on whether a leach return could happen. I noted the #Texans cap situation and he said there are always ways.
Leach is still in Miami. Agent on Dolphins: "they have a very strong interest because they need him." #Texans
Vitolo said as this next contract will probably be Leach's last, he wants to be with a contender and where he's comfortable. #Texans
Just spoke with Vonta Leach's agent Ralph Vitolo, who said he spoke with #Texans GM Rick Smith today and there's mutual interest.
Stephanie Stradley ‏@StephStradley
Hard to see Leach #Texans talk as anything other than 1 mutual respect 2 an attempt to generate a market for FB. Barely enuf snaps for 1 FB.
Texan_Bill
Hall of Fame
Oh NOEZ he WEAR HIMSELF on SHIRT, HIM EGO
In the NFL, you GOT to TAKE THE MONEY.
Maybe in no other sports league is "Pay Me" more UNDERSTANDABLE
Case in point...Vonta Leach here. He got his payday. But then front offices DON'T have near the same loyalty as players, they'll cut a player in no time.
James Casey took the money. Glover Quin took the money. Connor Barwin took the money. But because they didnt wear a T-shirt with a cheesy name rhyming slogan, it makes them "better"?
Just saying that turnover and money reasons happens a lot in the NFL. I think a dying position like fullback should be THE LEAST BLAMED for cashing in, before it falls forever from relevancy and use
Tesuns
Practice Squad
Here is what I think happened to Leach wanting to be Texans. After his release from Ravens, Leach's agent called the Texans, but R.Smith (GM) didn't respond, or didn't respond immediately, so his agent went to the media wanting Leach to be Texans. Since word got out that he wants to be Texans, the team had to respond, or look bad for not responding to an ex-Texans and a Super Bowl winner. While this was going on, Leach went to visit the Dolphins. If Leach wants to be Texans, it would of been done already. $ is all over Leach, too bad the Ravens treated him like an asset, every team in the NFL right now are doing mini-camps with most starters set. It feels good that the Texans respect their players more than the Ravens like when we release Jacoby Jones right after the draft giving him ample time before mini-camp to sign with another team. So long Leach, enjoy Miami Beach!!!
AngryNateFTW
Veteran
He did what was best for his family. Those with hurt feelings can get over it.
If the Texans want him back i'd welcome him back. He loves Houston.
If the Texans want him back i'd welcome him back. He loves Houston.
Dutchrudder
Hall of Fame
Considering Miami is the team most likely to sign Vonta at the moment, I wouldn't put it past the Texans to try to drive up the price of him. Miami is in the AFC afterall, and I think they will make some progress this year. They could be our first opponent in the playoffs next year.
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
I think the Texans are giving Vonta respect with their words -- he was much loved in this locker room -- and maybe a little leverage.
I'd be very surprised to see him here.
Spot on.
Subterfuge, administered out of respect for Leach mind you, may be the operative word here.
Dutchrudder
Hall of Fame
I think we used a fullback on 35% of offensive snaps last year, so I doubt they would bother splitting time between him and Jones. It's one or the other. I don't know how much, if any, guaranteed money Jones got with his deal, but if it's low, then there's a chance we bring in Vonta. I personally don't think it's worth it, unless Jones gets injured before Vonta signs elsewhere.
Listening to Kubiak talk about possibly adding Leach, it sounds like he'd try to use some two FB sets.
My guess is that in lieu of some of the 3 TE sets that we have seen, he'd use a 2nd FB in the backfield.
Even if it's just a RZ and short yardage package, I think that's enough snaps if you have two good players like that. Also could be used as a grind the clock package when you're nursing a lead.
I really wouldn't expect Kubiak to be the coach to do it, but you could get creative with your short yardage plays. Play action would still be an option because Jones can catch and run a bit if teams loaded up too much for the run. Plus you'd still have OD in the game and either another WR, or another TE.
I'd force teams hands. I'd call it the Fucc U, STOP US formation. I'd run right behind Brandon Brooks in short yardage. Leach leading Greg Jones into the Hole, and Jones leading Arian into the hole.
Oh man...You could have all kinds of counters...You could even hand the ball off to Jones sometimes as a change-up with Leach leading the way.
My guess is that in lieu of some of the 3 TE sets that we have seen, he'd use a 2nd FB in the backfield.
Even if it's just a RZ and short yardage package, I think that's enough snaps if you have two good players like that. Also could be used as a grind the clock package when you're nursing a lead.
I really wouldn't expect Kubiak to be the coach to do it, but you could get creative with your short yardage plays. Play action would still be an option because Jones can catch and run a bit if teams loaded up too much for the run. Plus you'd still have OD in the game and either another WR, or another TE.
I'd force teams hands. I'd call it the Fucc U, STOP US formation. I'd run right behind Brandon Brooks in short yardage. Leach leading Greg Jones into the Hole, and Jones leading Arian into the hole.
Oh man...You could have all kinds of counters...You could even hand the ball off to Jones sometimes as a change-up with Leach leading the way.
Jones $1 million deal includes $400,000 in guarantees, including a $160,000 signing bonus.
CretorFrigg
Fire Rick Smith
Leach is going to demand too much. I just can't see us signing him, as many have pointed out.
He's a FB...a position that's slowly dying away in the NFL.
He's a FB...a position that's slowly dying away in the NFL.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Texans_Chick
Utopian Dreamer
Theoretically, let's say you wanted Leach, and you didn't mind 2 quality FBs because you know what sorts of players they are. You also know the struggles you had with an inexperienced line last year with no true fullback.
So how would you do it?
Maybe you decide that you aren't blown away by your UDFA RBs. Mostly guys smaller than your normal 3 down Texans running back.
So you go Foster/Tate 1 & 2. And then go FB as your 3rd back. Jones could be that guy. And you put a UDFA on p-squad.
You hope your 3rd RB doesn't get that many carries, and you get the benefit of two quality FBs in case one gets hurt. Yeah, FB doesn't get many snaps, but neither does 3rd RB in the ideal world.
And you'd have two fast bruisers you could potentially use for ST if you wanted.
I'm not saying that is ideal. Trend is to use no roster space on FBs. And you don't want to use much money on FB either, especially when it is dear.
Just trying to figure out why you might be inclined to do this and if so how would you structure your roster.
I still think that they aren't really after him but being respectful to him, and throwing him a bone to get more interest in him from others.
Texans_Chick
Utopian Dreamer
Leach played ST last time he was here.
Paying two FB's in todays NFL world would be a disaster. Stop all this offseason mental masturbation over a marginal position and concentrate on real positions of weakness like DT, ILB and RT. I'd rather see Eric Winston line up at RT than Leach at FB. That includes passing downs and distances. RT should be more of a concern than FB at this stage of the game. Leach is just a "name" that we are familiar with but should be considered less of an improvement at a position than Winston.
You're right, I remember him contributing for us on ST but I don't recall seeing him on any Baltimore ST. Could have overlooked seeing him, but I can't remember him being on any for them. Factor in 2 additional years of banging and you have to wonder how willing and effective he would be doing it here now.
I'm honestly 50/50 on the idea. If Jones at his older age gets knicked up or injured then we'd be limited offensively especially in the RZ. I see potential benefits with it, but I'd personally rather use that roster spot on another position.
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Wasn't Leach a ST standout while here?
Read one post above you.
Why the hell is Kubiak spending any time on our FB situation when we've already signed a very competent player in Jones to handle that position ? He should instead direct his attention on much important personnel issues like at RT and LB (both inside and outside) ?
PapaL
Loose Screw
When asked, he answered a question. He didn't write a dissertation on it. Calm down.
badboy
Hall of Fame
If we can improve team, why is any position trivial? Why cannot we and Kubiak focus on multi areas? If Winston make his price right, he could be signed as well as Vontae; but maybe just maybe Kubiak sees Harris, Newton and Williams as ample to fill the position. Prior to his injury, Derek was looking good and Gary has constantly said so. Most recent feedback is Newton and Williams will be available in training camp. Nothing negative has been said about Ryan Harris and he should be better as will Gardner. Until proven different, I really like our options on Oline.
Did we really have a good option at FB last season? Perhaps that is why we used one 35% as quoted elsewhere. We went with what we had especially with AJ having great season. A healthy Tate and Foster with fewer attempts behind a rotation of Jones and Leach would be awesome. A strong, fresh FB in almost every play is a good thing for team. We all want to keep the opponent's defense on the field.
Porky
Hall of Fame
I don't get the Vonta hate - as if adding a good player to any position is some how depleting another area. And let's not forget his ST ability. If they can't fit him under the cap it won't happen. If they can, it very well may.
It's really simple stuff. Don't over think this people. :kubepalm:
It's really simple stuff. Don't over think this people. :kubepalm:
Jones made a commitment to play for the Texas, so the Texans reciprocate by talking openly and publically about perhaps negotiating with a second FB prospect which is the same as saying they might release Jones. Is Kubiak out of line for doing it, not technically but not really good for Jone's morale or for that matter team morale ? Kubiak is usually pretty tight-lipped, but for whatever reason he had a garrulous moment that serves no purpose.
welsh texan
You may say I’m a dreamer but I’m not the only one
I haven't read the whole thread through, but there is the fact that Vonta is a known quantity in this system, and I'm sure that the Jones contract allows him to be a cheap TC cut.
Is it possible that, in our system, we can get better at FB and save money by doing this.
Both guys have made their money now and Jones would catch on elsewhere pretty damn quick. You can't really get upset at a multi-millionaire losing a few quid in the NFL.
Is it possible that, in our system, we can get better at FB and save money by doing this.
Both guys have made their money now and Jones would catch on elsewhere pretty damn quick. You can't really get upset at a multi-millionaire losing a few quid in the NFL.
HOU-TEX
Ah, Football!
My thoughts:
I like Vonta a lot and I was upset he left at the time. However, if we're going to use some of our limited money I'd rather spend it on a position of need. I'm kinda kickin myself for what I'm getting ready to say. BUT, I'd use the money on the RT position by bringing Winston back (depending on $, of course). I know, I know, I was one of the one's that harped on him a lot and was satisfied with letting him go. Given what I saw last year and what we're looking at thus far, I'd do it.
I'm willing to bet we've already looked into it and he might've wanted more than we could spend. I dunno, but I remain very skeptical of an injured rook, an injured and below average Newton, a 6th round rook from a small school and a career back up in.
I like Vonta a lot and I was upset he left at the time. However, if we're going to use some of our limited money I'd rather spend it on a position of need. I'm kinda kickin myself for what I'm getting ready to say. BUT, I'd use the money on the RT position by bringing Winston back (depending on $, of course). I know, I know, I was one of the one's that harped on him a lot and was satisfied with letting him go. Given what I saw last year and what we're looking at thus far, I'd do it.
I'm willing to bet we've already looked into it and he might've wanted more than we could spend. I dunno, but I remain very skeptical of an injured rook, an injured and below average Newton, a 6th round rook from a small school and a career back up in.
b0ng
Bad Hombre
I don't see how this would work unless he was signed to a non-guaranteed contract and could be cut in TC if he wasn't as good as Jones in our system. I highly doubt that he refused to re-structure his contract with the Ravens so he could come down to Houston on an extended try-out.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
May not be the case. To apply some ball park numbers to what Leach may be seeking. From BaltimoreRavens.com :
Jones signed a contract and is ready to play. And he looks like a guy comes to play hard. He doesn't seem to be the kind of wuss who would sit around and think of things to pout about. Doesn't seem like the kind of player that would sit around and sulk because there might be some competition at his position.
but that's just my take...
...seems like you're proposing he would be
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
Remember, too, there's no love lost between Texans & Jeff Ireland. Ireland blocked the Texans from adding Sage Rosenfels when Schaub & Leinart went down. Miami had no use for him, but waited until after we had signed two backups to waive him. Worked out well with T.J., but still...
NitroGSXR
Super Sic #58
To be fair... neither has Vonta. I was not a fan of him getting the ball. He is super stiff when it comes to catching or carrying.
As an aside, I am neither for nor against signing Vonta Leach. This is a debate that is above my means. I like Leach and think he's sledgehammer. I also like Jones.
PapaL
Loose Screw
I like Leach but I also don't really care if it's him or Jones at FB. I don't think there's that big of difference between the two. At age 31 and 32, both players are close in age. I think it would come down to money and Greg Jones is playing for peanuts this year for us. I don't see it happening.
Ben Tate is currently wearing Vonta's old #44...random fact.
http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth/post/_/id/50769/why-texans-shouldnt-chase-leach
"It would mean the Texans swallow $400,000 guaranteed of Jones’ one-year, $1 million contract. A team that’s tight against the cap can’t be throwing $400,000 away on a guy they don’t ever let take the field and have no complaint with."
"I asked a scout if Leach is better than Jones.
“Not better, just different,” he said. “Jones is very versatile, can run with ball, solid hands, good athlete. Leach is a blocker first, can catch but not going to be a threat.”
How much better a blocker, I asked.
“Not enough,” he said. “I would rather have the versatile player.”"
Ben Tate is currently wearing Vonta's old #44...random fact.
http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth/post/_/id/50769/why-texans-shouldnt-chase-leach
"It would mean the Texans swallow $400,000 guaranteed of Jones’ one-year, $1 million contract. A team that’s tight against the cap can’t be throwing $400,000 away on a guy they don’t ever let take the field and have no complaint with."
"I asked a scout if Leach is better than Jones.
“Not better, just different,” he said. “Jones is very versatile, can run with ball, solid hands, good athlete. Leach is a blocker first, can catch but not going to be a threat.”
How much better a blocker, I asked.
“Not enough,” he said. “I would rather have the versatile player.”"
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
ESPN speaks of swallowing $400,000 guaranteed money. This is not technically correct. Spotrac lays out his guaranteed money as his $160,000 signing bonus + ONLY $80,000 of his base 2013 $840,000 salary = $240,000.
BullBlitz
Section 331
Given the right side of our line, I'd rather have the Pro Bowl blocking FB.
PapaL
Loose Screw
Jones was a Pro Bowl Alt in '07 and Leach has gone twice. Personally, Pro Bowl FB means to much to me as Pro Bowl ST'er.
Both guys have proven not only a willingness but a desire to block.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Leach is a 3 timer and 3 time 1st team All Pro. Jones is excellent and I was very glad to see the Texans sign him. Aside from ordinary duties, Leach is an enforcer. I don't know either way about Jones on that.