Still holding out hope I see.
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DW4 Traded to Cleveland
- Thread starter Texansphan
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Still holding out hope I see.
sandman
Brexit Advisor
Don't disagree with any of this. In my head I've gone through the following phases:
1. We can resolve this
2. We can get a good haul of draft picks for him
3. We aren't going to get a good haul of draft picks for him
4. We just need to get rid of him, I don't even care about the return anymore
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
Hope he’s checking in on TexansTalk.
Texian
Hall of Fame
Intelligent life discovered on Texans Talk.
Ahh thanks. I thought his salary still counted against the cap. If it doesn't, NC handling just right
The cap hit counts that year doesn’t it? Then can be rolled over the following year.
Perhaps, but just because someone watched a cake being made doesn't necessarily mean they can bake a cake, too.
Bob knew how to be a CEO and listen to the various voices at his front office boardroom. Cal has never been a CEO, never built a business, and really hasn't done much of anything in life other than ride his dad's coattails. And maybe most important of all, he's just not a leader of men like his dad was.
Ultimately, it's a results driven business, and Bob McNair was able to put together a staff that had two solid runs. We'll just have to wait and see how it turns out for Cal & Co.
The Steelers won two championships with their "sexual deviant". If you really think a team of nothing but Mormons is going to win a championship, you must not have been paying attention to the NFL for the past few decades.
So-called "culture" should be a result of winning, not the primary corporate mission statement. Some team is going to win a lot of games with Deshaun. I hope your teeth don't wear out from all the grinding that it'll cause.
It certainly sounds like Caserio was talking with the Dolphins.
Texans GM Nick Caserio on Deshaun Watson: 'In the end, no trade came to fruition'
Houston was unable to swing a trade involving Deshaun Watson prior to Tuesday's deadline. General manager Nick Caserio addressed the situation on Wednesday.
www.google.com
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
I hardly believe that this comes as some great revelation.
It comes from the horse's mouth.
If I'm not mistaken, corrosion was saying that there were no official trade talk between the two teams and that the news were just click-bait.
Bob McNair knew how to make money. Nothing more or less.
The Big Ben situation was totally different
1 woman is a he said she said case. 22 civil complaints and 11 criminal complaints is another matter.
The 2nd case of the girl who willingly went into a bathroom wearing a down to fvck t-shirt on and had security standing outside the door. Well I question that complaint.
I've always said that I don't care what players do in their personal lives and that guys deserve 2nd chances. You know I don't believe in the Not Texans worthy motto. But even I draw the line at what Derrick/Rugs did
I absolutely agree. One of the solaces I take is Rusty Hardin ain’t cheap
Well that alone is a helluva' lot more than what Cal knows considering this season is the first time in two decades that the stadium has available tickets.
Look, I'm not defending Deshaun or Big Ben, but rather pointing out that franchises need to learn to weigh things against each other instead of making some ethereal idealism their primary focus.
Players are leaving this franchise and clearly pointing to the rot at the top of the organization, which is obviously directed at the McNairs and their little devious minion.
Texian
Hall of Fame
I do find it somewhat amusing how some here believe that come 2023 - 2024 Nick Caserio is somehow, some way, going to be able to reach down deep inside and channel his inner Ozzie Newsome and Voila!!! Nick becomes the Jamie Dimon of the salary cap and the Gil Brandt of player personnel while all along he has been nothing more than Captain Edward Smith. Must be the Kool Aid.
I dunno what your problem with Casserio is, but you sure seem to enjoy ragging on him at every opportunity.
I'm just thankful, very thankful that we got rid of O'Brien and have somebody in here now who's got some bona fide experience
in the management of an NFL franchise.
Texian
Hall of Fame
I dunno what your problem with Caserio is, you asked? Well since you asked....
Caserio FUBARS Extraordinaire:
1/7 - Texans hire Nick Caserio.
Jan thru Apr Caserio refuses to take calls from any teams about Deshaun Watson
1/27 - Caserio hires David Culley first opening, last hire. Caserio's first hire is the worst HC hire in 2021.
3/2 - Resigns David Johnson to a $6MM contract
3/11 - Caserio restructures Cooks contract. borrows $2.5MM from 2022, 2023, 2024 ($7.5MM). Restructure also cancels last year of contract. Cooks contract now expires after 2022 season.
3/20 -Caserio restructures Tunsil contract. By borrowing $10MM from future caps ($5MM 2022; $5MM 2023)
3/22 - Caserio trades for Shaq Lawson restructures contract, then trades Lawson to Jets, creates $1.8MM in Dead Cap.
3/23 - Caserio trades for Ryan Izzo. 8/31 Caserio cuts Izzo.
Caserio trades for Ryan Finley. 5/24 - Caserio cuts Finley
3/24 - Caserio restructures Mercilus contract. 10/19 - Caserio cuts Mercilus creating $7MM dead cap in 2022
3/30 - Caserio restructures Cunningham 4 year contract.Borrows $5.6MM from 2022, 2023, 2024. Likely cut/traded before 2022 season.
4/29 - NFL Draft. Caserio uses (8) 2021 draft picks and (2) 2022 draft picks to draft (5) players.
7/26 - Caserio trades for Anthony Miller. 10/6 - Caserio cuts Miller
9/9 - Caserio trades Roby to Saints, restructuring contract to eat $8.9MM in salary ($4.8MM in 2022). Value of 2nd rd pick, only gets a 3rd rd pick.
Nick Caserio has created over $37MM in 2021 dead cap money. As a result Caserio had to restructure (5) contracts to create over $35MM in order to sign a bunch of over 30 year olds to 1 year contracts in order to fill the roster.
Caserio has already created over $15MM in dead cap in 2022. Additionally reduced the 2022 salary cap by another $10MM+ from restructuring. 2022 dead cap money needed to trade Watson $16MM, to trade/cut Cunningham $12MM. $15MM + $10MM + $26MM = Caserio responsible for $51MM in reduction of 2022 salary cap.
Texans only have 27 players under contract in 2022, that's 10 players less than the avg team.
Texian
Hall of Fame
BTW - The Texans started 2021 with 54 on the roster and $6MM over the cap.
If the Texans had made the following moves they would've been $48MM UNDER the cap. They would not of had to resort to mortgaging the future to the tune of OVER $35MM in contract restructuring, $37MM in Dead Cap in 2021 and would've added a 2nd RD draft pick.
| B. McKinney | Release | $7.00m | |
| D. Johnson | Release | $6.90m | |
| Z. Fulton | Release | $3.00m | |
| Du. Johnson | Release | $5.15m | |
| B. Dunn | Release | $3.25m | |
| B. Cooks | Trade | $12.00m | |
| J. Watt | Release | $17.50m | |
| Total Saved | $54.80m |
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Inside story of why the Houston Texans didn't trade quarterback Deshaun Watson, what's next
3:46 PM CT
Sarah BarshopESPN Staff Writer
3:46 PM CT
Sarah BarshopESPN Staff Writer
Dejaview
All Pro
It’s been a long time but my old business law courses at UT, as I remember, may have mentioned a legal contract having performance on both sides? DW is getting paid but he won’t play for the Texans? He will only play for the fins? If not we still have to honor our side of his contract to pay him. If we then void our contract we lose trade value? Extortion.
TexansBull
Hall of Fame
My question was were they going to resume in the off-season? It read they are done all together kicking the tires on Watson. Which I think would be smart because they could just draft another rookie QB with their high draft pick this year.
Isn’t there some other FA QBs going to be available like Wilson or Rodgers?
I didn't say they never had the discussion.
I'm saying it was never "worth keeping an eye on" per Glazer and his three articles on the subject spread over several weeks.
I am saying that never was compensation agreed upon and never was a deal "imminent" as all these talking heads said it was.
The fact is that the impasse was the legal issues and settling on the civil cases does not automatically clear the criminal cases (The Ones That Matter) as not all of those who have filed criminally filed are part of the civil suits.
There has been No Change on that front from day one until now - No GM is going to make a trade for the compensation package the Texans are asking for with those legal issues looming.
All the BS about "protections" was just that , BS. The Texans would never agree to that. This was just the talking heads making stuff up to grab your attention and it did just that , it was discussed here ad nauseum. It was pure fantasy.
The Texans would love for this to be someone else's problem .... then there's reality. Until something changes , nothing's going to change.
You are correct.
I need to crunch the numbers .... but its possible there is method to his salary cap madness ,
I know it looks bad from our perspective in the short term ....
Miami doesn't own their pick , its owed to Philly.
It's possible they revisit this but I'm almost certain than nothing will be consummated until the legal issues (Criminal) are resolved.
Texian
Hall of Fame
Short term is bad, long term is even worse. With this roster you want to maximize your number of draft picks and 4 year contracts, not use 8 picks from this year and 2 picks from next year to draft only 5 players. You also don't want to go into the following season with only 50% of the roster signed. That puts you at a 25% disadvantage with the rest of the teams in the NFL. Even thou you may be $50MM under the cap that still only averages out to less than $2MM per player. That's 1 or 2 year contracts. So once again you're back in the same situation you were the year before of having to mortgage the future to fill out a roster with mediocre to below average players for 1 or 2 years. You're not only repeating the same problems, you're compounding them. Pushing this dumpster fire further down the road. 4 yr contracts is what will make for a more efficient and better roster and a more manageable salary cap.
Responsible management and being fiscally responsible you must have a big picture that breaks down into for smaller windows that allows you to plan well and meet your objectives. The big picture should look something like this; 2021 100% contracts signed; 2022 70% - 75% contracts signed; 2023 40% - 50% contracts signed and 2024 25% 30% contracts signed. From the big picture now you know how to manage free agency and how and what you need to draft. I have seen nothing from Caserio that is even close to short or long term planning and his money management is let's max out the credit cards. I use to think Caserio was a paycheck to paycheck type of manager. However since he had to borrow $35MM from 2022 and 2023 to pay the bills in 2021, he's overdrawn and in arrears. That's negative yardage.
The sad part is he could've accomplished what he has done without creating massive amounts of dead money, borrowing from future years and still had money in the bank. You probably have seen my post that shows how he could've done just that.
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Caserio never had to work for a team in rebuild mode.
Hope is not the same as faith... Houston fans have never had anything beyond hope
KoolAid Sipper
AFCEVET
Besides the obvious lure of Miami vs Charlotte, he could be looking at Florida doesn't have state income tax while North Carolina does. Derrick is on some funny schit right now which I personally think is BS but he is exercising the rights afforded to him in his contract and as a NFL player regarding what team he suits up for.
I thought the goal in the draft was to get as many of the top guys you really want as opposed to drafting alot of late rd guys who if they make the roster will have only made it because they were drafted. I'm the guy who believes in using those late rd picks to try to move up and get your guys. They have plenty of 6th rd picks to use to move up in next yrs draft. For instance could they use a couple of those 6ths and a 4th to move up into the 3rd to get a guy like Meinertz? Then also draft OL with 3-1 and the N.O. pick.
If you could fing 2 starting OL and a starting RB (Not out of the question) would that be worth giving up a couple of 6th's? For me it would be. I also would spend the money to get the best UDFA's possible to offset the loss of those 6th's and make sure that I could fill out the roster with 10-12 guys on rookie deals next yr. Good thing about doing things this way is UDFA's are the lowest paid guys in the NFL and I think you can find guys that can fill out the roster and still contribute. Travieere Thomas type guys.
Again the statements @CloakNNNdagger & I have made thru the course of this mess substantiated .... Like clockwork.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
I believe RD1 thru RD5 is where roster players can be found. RD6 and RD7 picks could be used for players that may have slipped (for many reasons) or they could be used to move back into RD5 or bundled with earlier picks to move up for a player they want to select.
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Texian
Hall of Fame
The goal of draft depends on whether you are knocking on the championship door or you are drunk lying in the basement. The great Alex Gibbs always believed that he could find the players he needed in day 3 of the draft with the one exception, the LT. I know you like to pooh pooh day 3 draft picks but Gibbs thrived on them.
There is a reason that UDFA guys are UDFA guys.
Taking 8 draft picks and borrowing 2 draft picks from future years to draft 5 players is taking steps backwards, that's negative yardage, especially when you are lying drunk face down on the basement. Keep this up and you will never get out of the basement. Keep this up and you will forever be wandering the aisles of Home Depot and Lowes looking for those UDFA to sign. Welcome to Nick Caserio's world.
We have different philosophies on the draft.
I'M looking to get 3 or maybe 4 starters out of each draft. The higher the pick the greater chance of getting a starter. I just dont believe that missing or trading away 5th/6th rd picks is going to destroy a franchise. Obviously you feel differently.
Usually because they're under developed or under utilized. The reason you take chances on UDFAs is because the ROI is so high. Hit on one every 2 or 3 years, and you're in the black.
Arian Foster was an OK SEC RB with injury issues. He came into the league overweight and out of shape. But, the transformation he made with his body between his 1st and 2nd year in the league was incredible. That's what can happen when you take a chance on these younger guys. A 4th or 5th year vet isn't going to make a big leap. They are who they are. That's why I was so disappointed in Caserio filling the roster with these JAG vets on a team that was going nowhere.
@steelbtexan, of course you need premium talent. And of course, they're easier to finder earlier in the draft. But, you that doesn't mean you don't stop looking in every nook and cranny. Especially with a team so devoid of talent.
I got to hand it to you Texian because when a person presents you with a simple little dozen word question you go into a full-blown
dissertation in your response: have you nothing else to do with your time ?
Well I don't have the time or inclination to rebut each one of your little topics but I'll respond to the first two.
Be it between January and April or between January and November, 2 2021 Watson was not going to be traded to anyone with those lawsuits hanging over the whole sordid affair, and as you can see we are sitting here 10 months after the revelations no trade has occurred.
You can only speculate about whether Culley is a good HC or not just as when I tell you I tell you I might think it's likely the Texans would still be 1-7 right now if our HC in 2021 was Bill Belichick.
Anyway sorry you've got such a hard-on for NC, because that's a personal problem you will need to deal with yourself.
Texian
Hall of Fame
Surprising. From Gainesville GA less than 60 miles form South Carolina line, went Clemson in South Carolina for 3 years. Carolina is almost like being at home. I thought Atlanta might want to take a seat at the poker table in March but after the Michael Vick fiasco, Arthur Blank probably wants nothing to do with Watson.
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Texian
Hall of Fame
No argument here, that is why there is a mad dash to sign a dozen or so right after the draft and use UDFAs to fill out their 90 man rosters. Foster was a product of Alex Gibbs and the ZBS. Gibbs saw something in Foster that most did not.
Texian
Hall of Fame
Yes you asked a simple question, I just tried to oblige you with an answer. Regardless of the lawsuits refusing to take any calls about the QB is egregious and absent minded thinking. Any hard on for Caserio has been earned, all the credit goes to Nick.
Texian
Hall of Fame
Your philosophy has a math problem. Finding only 3 or 4 keepers in each draft is a big step backwards, even for good teams. It stresses the roster, the salary cap and is a hinderance to long term planning. Might as well shoot yourself in the foot and next year you can shoot yourself in the other foot. So you've that to look forward to.
Thorn
Dirty Old Man
The Texans have already shot themselves in both feet, both hands, and in some cases, their heads. There's not much left to shoot.
Wrong, If you do a great job and hit on those picks with real difference makers and add 2-3 quality FA's a yr you will be fine. In fact if you find your QB you will be better than fine. You've just gotta do the work and find the guys and get a bit lucky with Injuries. Imagine being able to bring in 3 star level players and 3 aboe avg starters a yr.
Look at the Texans defense as an example. You've got keepers in Greenard/Reid/KGH/Taylor. IMHO Then imagine adding 4 starters in the draft including 2 premium level players in the draft in rds 1/2 (Thibodeaux/Kendrick as an example.) Then by using the Saints pick and a 4th. 4-1 to move up to the middle of the 2nd for a CB like Emerson. Then at 3-1 draft the best S possible. In FA you go out and sign a couple of FA LB's like Kirksey/and another KGH.
By doing this you would have a young cheap defense. Another bonus from doing this is I wont have to watch LJo's dumbazz every Sunday blowing assignments and missing tackles.
Greenard/Blacklock/Taylor/Thibodeaux.
KGH/Kirksey/FA
Emerson/Reid/Drafted S (Say Lewis Cine from Georgia)/ Kendrick.
You dont think that would be a young fast defense that would have a chance to grow together and be a huge upgrade over what they're currently putting out there Sunday and you can do this on the cheap. (Which should appeal to you since you're a economics/cap guy, I am too but we just have different time frames on when the cap space will really matter)
This or some form of this could be done this offseason. Maybe not the exact players but players of this quality can be found in this draft in the 1st three rds, particularly on the defensive side of the ball. Caserio just needs to do the work.
Plus you will still have those 6th rd picks that seem to be gold to you. So this is a win-win.
Then get to work rebuilding the offense in the 2023 draft/offseason.
This ain't brain surgery and can be done. Just gotta put in the work.
Yep, I think you can hit on UDFA's at about the same rate that you hit on 6th/7th rd picks. If it was me in rds 5-7/UDFA's, I would draft/sign talented but troubled/injury history/athletic small school guys in those rds. If you do this you most likely will hit big on 1 of those guys every 3-4 yrs and in the meantime these guys have the athletic ability to help out on ST's. A Marcus Cannon (Cancer) type guy. Or a Antonio Callaway type guy. (A guy who didn't make it as a starting WR but can fill KR/PR/3rd WR role for 2-3 yrs.
It was just the 10% that I referred to.
A trade, IMO, was quite a long shot.
The only question I had was whether the two teams had had contact.
And that was answered.
I never paid attention to the other 90%.
I've got a bad feeling that this situation is going to get dragged beyond the 2022 draft and there is a real potential that none of it is resolved until well after that draft.
Which would mean the 2022 season is another wash and the Texans have to wait yet another year to even think about beginning a 'rebuild' with extra draft capital.
I really hate that Watson gets to pick his destination after all the crap he's pulled. It really limits the moves that the Texans can make to trade him.
So let me get this straight: you ask him a direct question, which he provides a well thought out, detailed, and respectful reply.
And this is your reply? SERIOUSLY????
Here's a suggestion: don't ask a question if you really don't want a reply, and, please keep the homoerotic metaphors safely in your noggin. Thanks.
ThATI've got a bad feeling that this situation is going to get dragged beyond the 2022 draft and there is a real potential that none of it is resolved until well after that draft.
Which would mean the 2022 season is another wash and the Texans have to wait yet another year to even think about beginning a 'rebuild' with extra draft capital.
I really hate that Watson gets to pick his destination after all the crap he's pulled. It really limits the moves that the Texans can make to trade him.
So let me get this straight: you ask him a direct question, which he provides a well thought out, detailed, and respectful reply.
And this is your reply? SERIOUSLY????
Here's a suggestion: don't ask a question if you really don't want a reply, and, please keep the homoerotic metaphors safely in your noggin. Thanks.
I got to hand it to you Texian because when a person presents you with a simple little dozen word question you go into a full-blownI've got a bad feeling that this situation is going to get dragged beyond the 2022 draft and there is a real potential that none of it is resolved until well after that draft.
Which would mean the 2022 season is another wash and the Texans have to wait yet another year to even think about beginning a 'rebuild' with extra draft capital.
I really hate that Watson gets to pick his destination after all the crap he's pulled. It really limits the moves that the Texans can make to trade him.
So let me get this straight: you ask him a direct question, which he provides a well thought out, detailed, and respectful reply.
And this is your reply? SERIOUSLY????
Here's a suggestion: don't ask a question if you really don't want a reply, and, please keep the homoerotic metaphors safely in your noggin. Thanks.
dissertation in your response: have you nothing else to do with your time ?
Well I don't have the time or inclination to rebut each one of your little topics but I'll respond to the first two.
Be it between January and April or between January and November, 2 2021 Watson was not going to be traded to anyone with those lawsuits hanging over the whole sordid affair, and as you can see we are sitting here 10 months after the revelations no trade has occurred.
You can only speculate about whether Culley is a good HC or not just as when I tell you I tell you I might think it's likely the Texans would still be 1-7 right now if our HC in 2021 was Bill Belichick.
Anyway sorry you've got such a hard-on for NC, because that's a personal problem you will need to deal with yourself.
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