Pantherstang84
@rolisrgti06
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Dunta Robinson, Texans to Part Ways
- Thread starter indiantexan
- Start date
Texan4Ever
All Pro
Let Dunta go, aside from his rookie season, he hasn't done much. The Detroit Lions fans seem to want him and consider hima "shut down corner" check out The Lions Fanatics message board.
Do we get draft picks if a team signs him, any comp picks for us?
Do we get draft picks if a team signs him, any comp picks for us?
SH I repped Super M
I didn't want Dunta re-signed. He was not worth the $. I wouldn't re-sign OD. With the $ saved I would make a run at Peppers.
Nero was talking about McNair and your philosophy not being the same. I know this my kid was in 1st grade when the Texans started playing football. They may make the playoffs by the time he graduates.
McNair has never paid top $ for his own guys (HWNSNBM excluded) much less bring in top tier FA's.
I went to the Arizona game last year and got a call from a friend that was in a club in Houston that Sunday night. He said Mario and the veteran leader A.Smith were in the club. That gave me a case of the warm fuzzies.
The only way to get McNairs attention is to stop going to the games. That affects the bottom line. Unfortunately that makes fed up fans bad fans in some peoples eyes.
I didn't want Dunta re-signed. He was not worth the $. I wouldn't re-sign OD. With the $ saved I would make a run at Peppers.
Nero was talking about McNair and your philosophy not being the same. I know this my kid was in 1st grade when the Texans started playing football. They may make the playoffs by the time he graduates.
McNair has never paid top $ for his own guys (HWNSNBM excluded) much less bring in top tier FA's.
I went to the Arizona game last year and got a call from a friend that was in a club in Houston that Sunday night. He said Mario and the veteran leader A.Smith were in the club. That gave me a case of the warm fuzzies.
The only way to get McNairs attention is to stop going to the games. That affects the bottom line. Unfortunately that makes fed up fans bad fans in some peoples eyes.
Brisco_County
Apples and roadmaps
It amazes me what some people on this board say.
Owen Daniels was in the top 10 of ALL receivers in the NFL last season before his injury. That's extremely rare for a TE. Of course you re-sign him. He hasn't earned the long term contract this season, but when he's due, he gets signed.
And Peppers is a 3-4 OLB. Different athlete, different skills.
Blake
MMQB
Hey Brisco. Answer this for me. If you give OD his nice fat multi-year huge signing bonus contract and he has a down year after his knee injury, or gets injured again, are you going to ask for some of that money back?
Or are you going to wish you waited a year to see how Owen comes back from the injury since he was already under contract anyways?
HoustonFrog
Dallas Frog
And? That was 1 of the 3 receptions he allowed.
So you're saying it doesn't matter when they screw up because they're better players?
Were you on the OJ Simpson jury?
I'm bringing it back. Retro is in!
I would tell you this was stupid, but you probably already knew that.
Move on to... an empty roster spot and a gaping hole that now has to be filled by a high draft pick.
Yeah, that's a real win.
You sure like to smart off and roll your eyes alot but you never respond to real facts or real stats. You make up your own..and then try and use put downs in order to try and prove your posts worth. It's not effective. Let's go back to page 7 again. Maybe you can study the stats and then make a valid argument.
http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1371003&postcount=121
Second Honeymoon
Hall of Fame
lets try and keep things civil.
one group of fans don't mind losing their #1 cornerback
one group of fans have a problem with losing their #1 cornerback
and before you start bringing up how much he costs (reported $12 million to franchise him for 2010) remember these FACTS.
a.) FACT: There is no salary cap in 2010. Thus his $12 million doesn't matter.
b.) FACT: For those thinking that McNair is going to spend that money elsewhere. You are wrong. He has already stated that the Texans will not be a big player in Free Agency.
c.) FACT: He wants to continue to build through the draft, even though Pitts and Dunta were both through the draft and we are letting them go, even though they are talented and have value. So much for 'building through the draft'. OPINION: He must really think his fans are that stupid to believe that load of mularkey. Building through the draft is codeword for 'we are too cheap to steal other team's players away and we are too cheap to prevent other team's from stealing ours away'. I never knew that Bob made his billions selling snake oil.
c.) FACT: Losing your #1 CB is never a good thing. Replacing him with someone from the draft only hurts other positions that need help and only increases the number of question marks on your roster going into 2010.
Those aren't opinions for the most part. Those are facts. There is no salary cap this year, so paying Dunta a one year deal means nothing especially if the money you save isn't used to bring someone else in that wasn't already on our roster. Spending a draft pick on Dunta's replacement is all well and good, but if we keep Dunta then you can spend that pick on another position of urgent need (C, FS, DT)
I understand that some of the fans feel that if they spend money on Dunta, that all of a sudden DeMeco and Owen Daniels are gone, but that isn't the case. They are on our team in 2010 and there probably won't even be football in 2011 and the rules will be different, so we need to do the prudent thing and wait till the rules are established before we pay the guys...just like we should have with Dunta for another year. His play wasn't bad enough that we should just let him walk for nothing. NOTE: If we manage to get a 3rd Rounder for his departure, I will be somewhat placated but I would still rather have Dunta in 2010 than another end of the 3rd Round pick. 3rd Rounder is nice, but Dunta would help us win games in 2010. That is all I care about. WINNING. Screw Bob's pocketbook. He is making money hand over fist.
Please remember the franchise tag is used to help teams keep their good players. Look at the Steelers, they even used their franchise tag on their kicker, Reed. Not because he was great and the cat's meow but because he was coming off a questionable year and they didn't want to sign him to a long term deal BUT they couldn't afford to lose him because he was a known quantity. Thus they did the low risk thing and just tendered him as franchise player. They did this because they went ahead and ponied up the money to keep Casey Hampton a Steeler. Why did they spend money to keep their players, even some who have some question marks ala Dunta? BECAUSE THEY ARE COMMITTED TO WINNING!!!!!
McNair has shown nothing to prove to me he is committed to anything other than the almighty dollar (opinion).
and what are these people complaining about Dunta not showing up for camp last year going to say when Owen doesn't show up for camp? Is OD going to be held to the same 'team first' standards?
Don't get me wrong, Dunta was a ********* for what he wrote on his sneakers in the season opener. He also was beaten on some critical plays but all corners get beaten and he is, without a doubt, our best corner. not saying a whole lot, but you can't lose your #1 corner if you are looking to 'turn the corner'. no pun intended.
This team needs to stop losing players like Dunta and Pitts, and start adding players, even stealing players, from other teams. We gotta stop this and its all because McNair is a cheap SOB. he hasn't spent the big money it takes to compete. That doesn't mean spend the big money in Free Agency every year, but at least keep your own players that you drafted and developed you cheap SOB.
one group of fans don't mind losing their #1 cornerback
one group of fans have a problem with losing their #1 cornerback
and before you start bringing up how much he costs (reported $12 million to franchise him for 2010) remember these FACTS.
a.) FACT: There is no salary cap in 2010. Thus his $12 million doesn't matter.
b.) FACT: For those thinking that McNair is going to spend that money elsewhere. You are wrong. He has already stated that the Texans will not be a big player in Free Agency.
c.) FACT: He wants to continue to build through the draft, even though Pitts and Dunta were both through the draft and we are letting them go, even though they are talented and have value. So much for 'building through the draft'. OPINION: He must really think his fans are that stupid to believe that load of mularkey. Building through the draft is codeword for 'we are too cheap to steal other team's players away and we are too cheap to prevent other team's from stealing ours away'. I never knew that Bob made his billions selling snake oil.
c.) FACT: Losing your #1 CB is never a good thing. Replacing him with someone from the draft only hurts other positions that need help and only increases the number of question marks on your roster going into 2010.
Those aren't opinions for the most part. Those are facts. There is no salary cap this year, so paying Dunta a one year deal means nothing especially if the money you save isn't used to bring someone else in that wasn't already on our roster. Spending a draft pick on Dunta's replacement is all well and good, but if we keep Dunta then you can spend that pick on another position of urgent need (C, FS, DT)
I understand that some of the fans feel that if they spend money on Dunta, that all of a sudden DeMeco and Owen Daniels are gone, but that isn't the case. They are on our team in 2010 and there probably won't even be football in 2011 and the rules will be different, so we need to do the prudent thing and wait till the rules are established before we pay the guys...just like we should have with Dunta for another year. His play wasn't bad enough that we should just let him walk for nothing. NOTE: If we manage to get a 3rd Rounder for his departure, I will be somewhat placated but I would still rather have Dunta in 2010 than another end of the 3rd Round pick. 3rd Rounder is nice, but Dunta would help us win games in 2010. That is all I care about. WINNING. Screw Bob's pocketbook. He is making money hand over fist.
Please remember the franchise tag is used to help teams keep their good players. Look at the Steelers, they even used their franchise tag on their kicker, Reed. Not because he was great and the cat's meow but because he was coming off a questionable year and they didn't want to sign him to a long term deal BUT they couldn't afford to lose him because he was a known quantity. Thus they did the low risk thing and just tendered him as franchise player. They did this because they went ahead and ponied up the money to keep Casey Hampton a Steeler. Why did they spend money to keep their players, even some who have some question marks ala Dunta? BECAUSE THEY ARE COMMITTED TO WINNING!!!!!
McNair has shown nothing to prove to me he is committed to anything other than the almighty dollar (opinion).
and what are these people complaining about Dunta not showing up for camp last year going to say when Owen doesn't show up for camp? Is OD going to be held to the same 'team first' standards?
Don't get me wrong, Dunta was a ********* for what he wrote on his sneakers in the season opener. He also was beaten on some critical plays but all corners get beaten and he is, without a doubt, our best corner. not saying a whole lot, but you can't lose your #1 corner if you are looking to 'turn the corner'. no pun intended.
This team needs to stop losing players like Dunta and Pitts, and start adding players, even stealing players, from other teams. We gotta stop this and its all because McNair is a cheap SOB. he hasn't spent the big money it takes to compete. That doesn't mean spend the big money in Free Agency every year, but at least keep your own players that you drafted and developed you cheap SOB.
Texan_Bill
Hall of Fame
Losing your #1 corner is a good thing when your #1 corner should be a nickel at best.
HoustonFrog
Dallas Frog
Right, thus my reply above. I don't like over the top smarmy
Right. As the stats have shown, losing someone like Reeves may have been bad but fortunately it was just Dunta who was 98 out of 107 CBs.
Texan_Bill
Hall of Fame
Second Honeymoon
Hall of Fame
I would give up our 2nd Rounder and the money it would take to bring Nmandi Asomugha to our team. No doubt. I would easily have traded Dunta and a 2nd Rounder for Nmandi which is, in essence, what that would be.
I just don't see Bob spending the money. PROVE ME WRONG, BOB!!!
HELP US WIN!!
Second Honeymoon
Hall of Fame
Frog,
Your just fine, HF. You are knowledgeable and a great fan and even when I disagree with you, I respect your opinion because its based on solid logic and your own beliefs. Same with TexanBill. I see some of your points, but I guess I am more of a bottom line guy. We didn't improve this week. In fact, we took major steps backwards especially after losing Pitts. I want to start taking steps forward. I guess that is what I am getting at. If there was a year that would have been easy to keep Dunta and just pony up the money worry-free it was 2010.
Why hasn't Joe Texan weighed in on this? I know he wants to win. Is losing Dunta and Pitts in one week going to make us a better team, JT? I can't see how we are a better team. No way in hell.
Second Honeymoon
Hall of Fame
Texan_Bill
Hall of Fame
I know.. That was a bit too much.
HoustonFrog
Dallas Frog
Just so you know my comment wasn't towards you. It was Goat and the 2 posts I have seen that involve a myriad of eye rolling emoticons and smart aleck comments. You and I are pretty much on the same page when it comes to many things, as you know.
I just think this move is one where, despite the talent level or lack thereof at the position, it is addiction by subtraction. I think Dunta's skills had diminished and his attitude had worn thin.
BIG TORO
TERADACTYL #23
Is it 16 million to bring him in?
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
About $14.5 mil. Basically it is a one year deal. After that there is a team option to retain him by paying the higher of a little under $17 mil or the franchise amount for QBs. There is also a clause that he cannot be franchised. And of course there is also whatever draft pick compensation the Raiders will want.
Joe Texan
Inducted 04
Losing Dunta was like getting Cured of aids in the corner back area.
Dunta was a self centered, it is all for me, Pay me Rick, douche bag since you asked me to chime in. He was bad for team morale, he was a poor leader, He was a sorry Corner back. He should have gotten league minimum and been suspended for what he did at the start of last season but BOB and Gary gave the little weasle a chance to shine. Well he blew that chance and now he can sit in hopes of finding a team that wants to pay his ass 10 times his worth. I have full confidence that Bob Smithiak will address this vacancy and will fill the void. From what your saying SH I doubt I could stay on board with your knee jerk decisions, have some patience this is a long offseason.
I have nothing but good things to say for Chester, He is a great guy who has given this team all he could, I am sorry he got injured and I wish him well.
Thank You Chester for your commitment to our growing team.
Dunta was a self centered, it is all for me, Pay me Rick, douche bag since you asked me to chime in. He was bad for team morale, he was a poor leader, He was a sorry Corner back. He should have gotten league minimum and been suspended for what he did at the start of last season but BOB and Gary gave the little weasle a chance to shine. Well he blew that chance and now he can sit in hopes of finding a team that wants to pay his ass 10 times his worth. I have full confidence that Bob Smithiak will address this vacancy and will fill the void. From what your saying SH I doubt I could stay on board with your knee jerk decisions, have some patience this is a long offseason.
I have nothing but good things to say for Chester, He is a great guy who has given this team all he could, I am sorry he got injured and I wish him well.
Thank You Chester for your commitment to our growing team.
BIG TORO
TERADACTYL #23
FirstTexansFan
The Unknown Fan
Shaft75
All Pro
Just the FACTS Shaft....just the FACTS
It seems that some posters think that, but whaddaya gonna do??
I would give up $14.5 a 1st and a 4th for AO and Bush.
The $ can come from trading OD and Duntas $. The added benefit in this deal is you probably can get a 2nd rder for OD.
OD's great and everything but nobody knows how he is going to come back from his ACL injury. As much as some on this MB try to down play it an ACL injury is a serious thing.
If trading OD helped land AO I'm all in. Give me a sure thing over a hopefully/maybe any day.
They made the right call on letting Dunta walk. IMO
SH you know where I stand on unclcle BoB and his penny penching ways.
The $ can come from trading OD and Duntas $. The added benefit in this deal is you probably can get a 2nd rder for OD.
OD's great and everything but nobody knows how he is going to come back from his ACL injury. As much as some on this MB try to down play it an ACL injury is a serious thing.
If trading OD helped land AO I'm all in. Give me a sure thing over a hopefully/maybe any day.
They made the right call on letting Dunta walk. IMO
SH you know where I stand on unclcle BoB and his penny penching ways.
Shaft75
All Pro
And? That was 1 of the 3 receptions he allowed.
So you're saying it doesn't matter when they screw up because they're better players?
Were you on the OJ Simpson jury?
I'm bringing it back. Retro is in!
I would tell you this was stupid, but you probably already knew that.
Move on to... an empty roster spot and a gaping hole that now has to be filled by a high draft pick.
Yeah, that's a real win.
Wow, just wow. That's all I get for taking the time to back my stuff up with some decent semi-lengthy rhetoric? A couple of smart ass responses with no substance. GEESH
Shaft75
All Pro
Sorry but who is AO?
HOU-TEX
Ah, Football!
Come on, Shaft. Practically this entire thread is filled with BS and horrible logic. I just thank the good Lord the Texans don't listen to their fans when it comes to player personel.
Shaft75
All Pro
True dat about the thread.
They can listen to us though. Just not SH, SM, GC, any others?
That's what the cost of getting the top tier FA is
If you want to win you gottta pay the price. So far uncle BoB has been unwilling to pay the price. Hopefully he changes his ways or this franchise will end up like the Cardinals. 50 yrs before they even reach a SB.
I think Smithiak will sign a 2nd tier FA like Bodden to an over inflated contract like A.Smiths. Instead of going after a tier 1 guy like AO. Atleast this is what their history says they wil do in FA.
Shaft75
All Pro
Seriously man, AO?? Who is it?
Goatcheese
Texan
Maybe because the stats you picked don't provide an accurate picture.
If you want to compare D-Rob to Quin then you have to do it on a snap by snap basis, not just looking at total numbers. A guy who played 5 snaps and didn't give up any receptions is not the greatest corner to ever take the field. He's a bum who couldn't get on the field.
above average
average
bellow average
Yards allowed per play in coverage
Dunta Robinson 0.88 <--- here's your winner
Glover Quin 1.18
Percentage of plays in coverage they allowed a reception.
Dunta Robinson 8.6% <--- here's your winner
Glover Guin 10.3%
Percentage of plays in coverage they were thrown at.
Dunta Robinson 13.1% <--- here's your winner
Glover Quin 16.1
Yards per reception
Dunta Robinson 10.3 <--- here's your winner
Glover Quin 11.5
Yards per attempt
Dunta Robinson 6.7 <--- here's your winner
Glover Quin 7.3
Completion percentage against
Dunta Robinson 65.4%
Glover Quin 63.8% <--- here's your winner
Despite D-Rob covering the other team's #1 and Quin covering the #2 or slot, Robinson still comes out ahead in almost every category.
It isn't even close.
98th out of 107 corners based completely on an opinion based ratings system.
"I thought Petey looked good getting torched on that 98 yard TD. I'll give him +2"
That's what their ratings amount to. They are opinions. Opinions are not stats.
JCTexan
Hall of Fame
I think he's talking about Nnamdi Asomugha. I don't know what AO means though.
HOU-TEX
Ah, Football!
He means Nnamdi Asomugha
People wanting to trade half our draft, OD and pay him 14 million a year = Poor logic and stupid
Think he ment Asmoguelkjsavb from Oakland. So NO, not AO
HuttoKarl
Veteran
Looking at the nfl free agent list maybe this?
Adewale Ogunleye, Chicago Bears (33)
Ogunleye started the first 14 games at left defensive end for the Bears this season, before sitting out the final two. He notched 6.5 sacks on the season, breaking last years total of 5. He led the team in that category. With the sudden and tragic loss of Gaines Adams, the Bears should have more incentive to keep Ogunleye around until they can find some consistent production from the position.
ChampionTexan
Hall of Fame
fify
(After the first year it's most likely tied to top QB salaries, and since both P. Manning and Brady will have new deals by then (maybe Brees too), it's gonna be one big number).
Dutchrudder
Hall of Fame
Yeah, but the pronunciation of it is: "Na-ma-dee Aus-O-moy-uh". So "AO" is kind of an abbreviated phonetic of his last name. When I read "NO" i think New Orleans, but whatever. If we get him, I will be impressed.
HuttoKarl
Veteran
Oh...he'd make more sense than O-Gun. haha
It's just not realistic. If we were to give up a bunch of stuff for a defensive back, trade up and get Berry and pray for some production from what would be left of our draft (maybe a couple late round picks).
I had Amobi on the brain for whatever reason. I meant the CB from the Raiders.
Hervoyel
BUENO!
SH
You keep saying that we've lost our "#1 Cornerback" and it forces me to reflect and then ask "By what measure?"
Was Dunta our #1 because he played better than anyone else on our roster? I don't believe that's accurate. profootballfocus.com has him rated 98th (as has been covered widely already in this thread) behind two other Texans corners neither of who are fan favorites. One is a rookie.
Is he our #1 corner because of his stats? Led the corners in tackles? Nope, that was Glover Quin, the rookie. Led the corners in interceptions? Nope, that was Jaques Reeves with a whopping 1 pick. Passes defensed? Nope, Quin again with 9. Penalties then, maybe he committed fewer penalties than the rest of them? No, that wasn't it either.
The whole focus of your anger about this seems to be funneled through the idea that we let our #1 cornerback go but damn man, if your #1 cornerback can't even make a case for why he should be considered your #1 cornerback then what in the hell are we talking about anyway?
So that was a down year? He's really much better than that but didn't show it?
Because why exactly? Because he didn't come to camp to make a point? Then he's stupid and is a stupid cornerback really an asset? Dunta played like **** last year by almost every legitimate measurable standard and he did it because he either couldn't play any better or wouldn't play any better. Neither one of those is a good road to be going down.
If he's lost a step as a result of injury then is he really our #1 cornerback?
If he couldn't do it because he sat out then is he really our #1 cornerback?
If he just sandbagged and pouted his way through a shitty year is he really our #1 cornerback?
Before we get all upset about what we're losing lets at least try to be honest about what he's worth. In this scenario Dunta is just getting his usual pass because he was our 2004 first round pick and had a good rookie year opposite Aaron Glenn.
You keep saying that we've lost our "#1 Cornerback" and it forces me to reflect and then ask "By what measure?"
Was Dunta our #1 because he played better than anyone else on our roster? I don't believe that's accurate. profootballfocus.com has him rated 98th (as has been covered widely already in this thread) behind two other Texans corners neither of who are fan favorites. One is a rookie.
Is he our #1 corner because of his stats? Led the corners in tackles? Nope, that was Glover Quin, the rookie. Led the corners in interceptions? Nope, that was Jaques Reeves with a whopping 1 pick. Passes defensed? Nope, Quin again with 9. Penalties then, maybe he committed fewer penalties than the rest of them? No, that wasn't it either.
The whole focus of your anger about this seems to be funneled through the idea that we let our #1 cornerback go but damn man, if your #1 cornerback can't even make a case for why he should be considered your #1 cornerback then what in the hell are we talking about anyway?
So that was a down year? He's really much better than that but didn't show it?
Because why exactly? Because he didn't come to camp to make a point? Then he's stupid and is a stupid cornerback really an asset? Dunta played like **** last year by almost every legitimate measurable standard and he did it because he either couldn't play any better or wouldn't play any better. Neither one of those is a good road to be going down.
If he's lost a step as a result of injury then is he really our #1 cornerback?
If he couldn't do it because he sat out then is he really our #1 cornerback?
If he just sandbagged and pouted his way through a shitty year is he really our #1 cornerback?
Before we get all upset about what we're losing lets at least try to be honest about what he's worth. In this scenario Dunta is just getting his usual pass because he was our 2004 first round pick and had a good rookie year opposite Aaron Glenn.
BIG TORO
TERADACTYL #23
Thats my thought too!
I dont believe in the Al Davis or Jerry Jones way of building a football team!
Hardcore Texan
Magnet Man
Is it safe to say the state of this thread has approached:
:
:
Stupid
We would have two 2nd rd picks. Can you tell me for sure OD is going to come back and be the player he was? Assuming that he will is short sighted and well Stupid.
I will do alittle mock mock for you after adding NA and Bush
Rd2 Nate Allen S
Rd2 Cam Thomas DT
Rd3 Kyle Calloway OT/OG
Adding those 5 guys would make this team complete. IMHO
BIG TORO
TERADACTYL #23
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
For sure, of course not. But his game is not built on speed like a CB. OD's game is built on good hands and a great perception of the coverage and finding holes so the likelihood of him recovering is much greater than positions such as RB and CB.
HOU-TEX
Ah, Football!
First let me say, we're not going to go after Nnamdi, Peppers or any other player that's going to want a boat load of jack. The owner, GM, coach and their dogs have said this team will be built through the draft while adding veteran FA's for stop-gaps until they can replace them. Yet, we have people like you, SH, etc. that want us to throw all kinds of draft picks and money at top tier players and when we don't spend an ass load on a FA y'all call McNair cheap. Go figure!
When was the last time you heard of a player unable to return from an ACL? An ACL repair usually stronger than it was originally after fully healing. The healing/rehab process does take a while, but OD will be fine. And no, I'm not one that thinks he should get a new deal right now. He needs a "prove it again" year first.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
I'd like to see them be creative and give him a new deal but something that protects the team. Offer him the same deal as last year for total compensation but have the guarantees and years conditioned on his play next year at certain defined levels. At least make the offer to show him good faith.
HOU-TEX
Ah, Football!
I wouldn't be opposed to something like that either. I just think if he truly turned down an offer last year, he wouldn't want to settle for a similar or smaller deal until he's able to prove that he's still a top 5 TE.
But, if it's something similar to what you mentioned....heck yeah.