Keep Texans Talk Google Ad Free!
Venmo Tip Jar | Paypal Tip Jar
Thanks for your support! 🍺😎👍

Derek Stingley vs. Sauce Gardner

Mr teX said:
Yep…..he’s good, but he’s got alot of help..& he’s had a bit of luck too when you look at the Qb/WR combos hes faced. 1 or the other is either out or just not very good.
Click to expand...
There aren't that many teams with a lethal combination this year, seeing as several of the household names are having one of their worst years (Brady, Wilson) and injuries (too many to list) to either the QB or the receiver.

But Sauce had seen his fair share (a little more than Stingley, my research seems to indicate) and he still outperforms Stingley by a country mile.

You thought the Jets D-Line was all the rage; it's not necessarily so.

www.yardbarker.com

Ranking the NFL's pass-rushing units

In addition to Von Miller changing teams, multiple other players on the Hall of Fame radar relocated to reshuffle this year's pass-rushing contingents. As training camps get underway, here is how the league's pass rushes stack up.
www.yardbarker.com www.yardbarker.com

That ranking might be a bit low, but the general point still stands.

And what about that play where he was charged for the TD?
Did he get any help at all, from anywhere?

I'm impressed with his ability to go toe-to-toe with the All-Pro TE Mark Andrews.
(This guy was having a career year until he gets injured in game 6).
He was on pace to 110 catches and 14 TDs (pro-rated).

At 6-2-1/2 and arm length of 33-1/2, Sauce gives you that option (going against the big receivers and TEs).

jetsxfactor.com

Potential NY Jets target Sauce Gardner sets incredible record at Combine

New York Jets draft target Sauce Gardner set a record at the combine that is sure to have evaluators drooling over his potential.
jetsxfactor.com jetsxfactor.com

His 4.41 speed (as compared to KJax 4.48) is comparable to Stingley.
www.espn.com

LSU's Stingley impresses at pro day: 'I'm still me'

Former LSU cornerback Derek Stingley Jr. posted an impressive pro day workout Wednesday and felt he showed NFL teams that "nothing has changed over these past couple years," referring to the COVID-affected 2020 season and his injury-marred 2021.
www.espn.com www.espn.com

But his measurements make Stingley looks like a dwarf, I hate to say it.

And I was never fully impressed with Stingley's game films (including those from his Freshman year).
Very good, but only for a college player.
 
76Texan said:
There aren't that many teams with a lethal combination this year, seeing as several of the household names are having one of their worst years (Brady, Wilson) and injuries (too many to list) to either the QB or the receiver.

But Sauce had seen his fair share (a little more than Stingley, my research seems to indicate) and he still outperforms Stingley by a country mile.

You thought the Jets D-Line was all the rage; it's not necessarily so.

www.yardbarker.com

Ranking the NFL's pass-rushing units

In addition to Von Miller changing teams, multiple other players on the Hall of Fame radar relocated to reshuffle this year's pass-rushing contingents. As training camps get underway, here is how the league's pass rushes stack up.
www.yardbarker.com www.yardbarker.com

That ranking might be a bit low, but the general point still stands.

And what about that play where he was charged for the TD?
Did he get any help at all, from anywhere?

I'm impressed with his ability to go toe-to-toe with the All-Pro TE Mark Andrews.
(This guy was having a career year until he gets injured in game 6).
He was on pace to 110 catches and 14 TDs (pro-rated).

At 6-2-1/2 and arm length of 33-1/2, Sauce gives you that option (going against the big receivers and TEs).

jetsxfactor.com

Potential NY Jets target Sauce Gardner sets incredible record at Combine

New York Jets draft target Sauce Gardner set a record at the combine that is sure to have evaluators drooling over his potential.
jetsxfactor.com jetsxfactor.com

His 4.41 speed (as compared to KJax 4.48) is comparable to Stingley.
www.espn.com

LSU's Stingley impresses at pro day: 'I'm still me'

Former LSU cornerback Derek Stingley Jr. posted an impressive pro day workout Wednesday and felt he showed NFL teams that "nothing has changed over these past couple years," referring to the COVID-affected 2020 season and his injury-marred 2021.
www.espn.com www.espn.com

But his measurements make Stingley looks like a dwarf, I hate to say it.

And I was never fully impressed with Stingley's game films (including those from his Freshman year).
Very good, but only for a college player.
Click to expand...

:strangle:
 
If they wanted a corner I thought Sauce was the slam dunk choice. Heck I am on record multiple times saying I thought Stingley was a 2nd rounder based on injury risk and performance decline.

That said, we are only in chapter 1 of a long book. All indications are that Sauce is off to a better start, but Sting is certainly holding his own. sting just needs to be the best player he can be. These guys might always be compared but that’s for fans and media. I see nothing that jumps out to me that Stingley is going to bust. Maybe he will be merely good, and never great but that remains to be seen. He needs better support in the front 7 before I start drawing any real conclusions.
 
steelbtexan said:
The Chargers and the Jets are way far ahead of the Texans talent wise. In fact if they would've remained healthy they could've competed with the Bills/Chiefs for the AFC. I did mocks where Sauce was drafted at 3 and Stingley was drafted at 13 due to injury. I like them both.

Speaking of entertaining the Texans will become much more entertaining over the next 3 yrs as Caserio adds premium talent like he did this last draft. Fans just have to remain patient and Caserio has to find his QB. There will be growing pains with a new young QB and I dont want a young QB drafted while Lovie's in charge for obvious reasons. I want an offensive minded HC as the next HC with the QB of his choice to lead the next chapter of the Houston Texans history. I like Kalfka as this guy. What do you think about Lombardi as this guy. On another note, how long do you think Staley's leash is with Payton rumored to be wanting the Chargers job?
Click to expand...
I remember the conversation we had last year and you said they should be playoffs next year and serious contender the year after. I asked you what is a serious contender and said afccg. You made these comments even before the Watson traded. I'm not sure if you were overly optimistic or what, but you said this. Now, looking at this team do they look like a playoff team next year?
 
76Texan said:
Looks like he had a great game, especially against the big guy Sutton.


3 PDs and a ton of solo tackles (9) in the running game and also helped stop Jeudy from the other side on that long pass play. (3:35 in this video)

Click to expand...

lol, the replies under that tweet are hilarious…and more or less highlight what i said about him coming out….he’s getting away with it now but its just a matter of time before the flags start flying more frequently.
 
Mr teX said:
lol, the replies under that tweet are hilarious…and more or less highlight what i said about him coming out….he’s gettibg away with it now but its just a matter of tine before the flags start flying.
Click to expand...
Was this hype also?

jetsxfactor.com

Top contributors to NY Jets' defensive beatdown in Denver

Numerous different players contributed to the New York Jets' stellar defensive effort in their win over the Denver Broncos.
jetsxfactor.com jetsxfactor.com
 
Mr teX said:
lol, this guy…..you link a jets puff website and ask me if its hype? Lol seriously?
Click to expand...
Yeah, but the guy was pitting the D-line against the secondary.

Is it any different from your saying that the Texans D-line could have helped Stingley?
 
Sauce has all eyes and I mean all eyes including the officials yet there are some, who maintain blown penalties. It works both ways. Lot of these so called #1 WR’s get away with murder and rules side with them, until they get their match-up from Hell.
Really don’t think Sauce knows any different, he has natural swagger & knows his teammates are counting on him to make big plays. That doesn’t sit well NFL elite WR’s, they get frustrated and loose composure to point they’re the ones pushing, shoving and grabbing thus nullifying official advantage, letting them play it out, just like in Basketball. No harm, no foul. Gardners tone setting style allows Sauce to get under their skin. It’s a game of cat and mouse and the mouse can turn and defend.
After 10 years or however long Gardner plays CB he could easily become the best free safety in the National League. Never seen a CB like him and he should go down as one of the all time greats.
 
Mr teX said:
lol, the replies under that tweet are hilarious…and more or less highlight what i said about him coming out….he’s getting away with it now but its just a matter of time before the flags start flying more frequently.
Click to expand...
Yeah sauce is playing very well but hes very handsy.... some of those break ups looks like P.I to me
 
76Texan said:
Yeah, but the guy was pitting the D-line against the secondary.

Is it any different from your saying that the Texans D-line could have helped Stingley?
Click to expand...

That's my opinion...& they can b/c we have 0 pass rush, & we suck at stopping the run...all things that help make offenses much more predictable and easier to defend. The Jets are a top 10 defense against the run..we're bottoms. The Jets don't get many more sacks than we do, but they do have more than us....more importantly they pressure the qb much better than we do. The pass rush/d-line 98% of the time aids the secondary..not the other way around.
 
Last edited:
76Texan said:
I wasn't aware of that.

But for the most part, I enjoy the football argument/take with MrTex.
Click to expand...
I don’t mind the arguments either. It’s football talk. My thing is stop with the excuses. In college it was he didn’t play against top competition. Now it’s because of the Jets front seven. I’m like man stop it. Give the young man some freaking credit. He’s darn good.
 
Mr teX said:
That's my opinion...& they can b/c we have 0 pass rush, & we suck at stopping the run...all things that help make offenses much more predictable and easier to defend. The Jets are a top 10 defense against the run..we're bottoms. The Jets don't get many more sacks than we do, but they do have more than us....more importantly they pressure the qb much better than we do. The pass rush/d-line 98% of the time aids the secondary..not the other way around.
Click to expand...
Well, the Broncos managed 201 yards against the Texans; 219 yards against the Jets.

Wilson went 14-31 with an INT.

Rypien went 24-46 with an INT.

As a whole, the Broncos only committed 4 penalties against the Jets vs. 13 against the Texans.

I don't see how Sauce was helped more than Stingley.

And also, without those 9 solo tackles (plus an assist) from Sauce, the Jets would have given up quite a few more yards on the ground.
 
Mr teX said:
That's my opinion...& they can b/c we have 0 pass rush, & we suck at stopping the run...all things that help make offenses much more predictable and easier to defend. The Jets are a top 10 defense against the run..we're bottoms. The Jets don't get many more sacks than we do, but they do have more than us....more importantly they pressure the qb much better than we do. The pass rush/d-line 98% of the time aids the secondary..not the other way around.
Click to expand...
I'm still waiting for the Advanced Stats, but for the Texans, they were able to put a combined 16 pressures on Wilson plus 3 sacks.

The Jets managed just 1 sack.
I don't have the advanced number on hurries, knock down, pressure for the Jets yet.
 
76Texan said:
Well, the Broncos managed 201 yards against the Texans; 219 yards against the Jets.

Wilson went 14-31 with an INT.

Rypien went 24-46 with an INT.

As a whole, the Broncos only committed 4 penalties against the Jets vs. 13 against the Texans.

I don't see how Sauce was helped more than Stingley.

And also, without those 9 solo tackles (plus an assist) from Sauce, the Jets would have given up quite a few more yards on the ground.
Click to expand...

lol, is that all you have? You’re reaching quite a bit when you have to resort to the last bit of your post. If Sauce would’ve been called for 1/2 of the DPI calls he should’ve been, the game comes out differently.
 
Per PFF week 7
T-1. CB SAUCE GARDNER, NEW YORK JETS (90.2)
Gardner just seems to keep resetting how high he can push the bar for a rookie corner week after week. Against the Broncos, he was targeted 10 times and allowed four catches for only 16 yards — 1.6 yards per target. He added three pass breakups for the second game in a row—what a superstar.

Unfortunately Stingley or Petre graded lower and did not make list. But thought both had solid games against Vegas.

T-1. S JAQUAN BRISKER, CHICAGO BEARS (90.2)
Brisker showed up in a big way for a Bears defense that few gave a chance heading into Monday night. He was targeted five times in coverage, but he gave up just two receptions for 11 yards and one first down, and he arguably made the play of the game when he broke on a go route to pick off Mac Jones with an impressive one-handed snag.
Click to expand...
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Don't disagree. But the targets and completion rates still tell a valid story.
Click to expand...

JB said:
Yep, big difference in man and soft zone coverages
Click to expand...

Exactly...

Not the story they'd like for you to jump to im sure.

Here's Trayvon Diggs' PFF from his rookie season last year & this year.
1666723603331.png 1666723821538.png

Here's another outstanding rookie in Tariq Woolen's PFF this year
1666724365090.png

Pat Surtain Jr rookie year and this year
1666725396790.png 1666725445905.png
You look at this stuff and the only conclusion you can draw is apparently PFF is trying to convince everyone that a cb getting ints / turnovers for his team don't mean ****...or at least mean more than receptions allowed & passes defensed which is something i'm certain they're tracking & expect for you to pay for to see. They're all over the place. 1 guy got 11 by himself his rookie season...which is just ridiculous for a cb...yet he still ended up with a sub 60 grade. This year, that same guy has 2 more than Sauce, but still has a lower grade than him. Another guy has 8 less targets, only 1 more reception allowed & 3 more ints.............. & his grade is also currently lower than Sauce's. The whole premise is absurd on its face given how accurate we know TO's to be in predicting the outcome of games & as JB says the differences in how these guys are asked to play. Trying to apply analytics to a game that just doesn't lend itself to them beyond basic volume stats is foolish, let alone trying to assign a "grade". Another thing that jumps out clearly is that they obviously have some type of risk-adjustment +/- calculation in there for how good your team's overall defense is...hard to say exactly what & how much that is tho. Basically if your team's overall defense is good, you're likely going to get some kind of boost in your personal play grade from that. If it's bad, the opposite effect where you'll get a bit of deduction.
 
Last edited:
Mr teX said:
Exactly...

Not the story they'd like for you to jump to im sure.

Here's Trayvon Diggs' PFF from his rookie season last year & this year.
View attachment 10923 View attachment 10924

Here's another outstanding rookie in Tariq Woolen's PFF this year
View attachment 10926


You look at that and the only conclusion you can draw is apparently PFF is trying to convince everyone that a cb getting ints / turnovers for his team don't mean ****...or at least mean more than receptions allowed & passes defensed which is something i'm certain they're tracking & expect for you to pay for to see. 1 guy got 11 by himself his rookie season...which is just ridiculous for a cb...yet he still ended up with a sub 60 grade. This year, that same guy has 2 more than Sauce, but still has a lower grade than him. Another guy has 8 less targets, only 1 more reception allowed & 3 more ints.............. & his grade is also currently lower than Sauce's. The whole premise is absurd on its face given how accurate we know TO's to be in predicting the outcome of games & as JB says the differences in how these guys are asked to play. Trying to apply analytics to a game that just doesn't lend itself to them beyond basic volume stats is foolish, let alone trying to assign a "grade".
Click to expand...
Independent of PFF, watching both of their play tells me all I need to know to differentiate their play. At least at this point, I see Sauce moving better and reading better. But you certainly are entitled to your opinion.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Independent of PFF, watching both of their play tells me all I need to know to differentiate their play. At least at this point, I see Sauce moving better and reading better. But you certainly are entitled to your opinion.
Click to expand...

I don't. I only see him getting the opportunity to make more plays on the ball..partly b/c he's a bit more handsy, but mainly b/c he's playing in a more attack style defense... not the soft zone bend but don't break style that Stingley is being asked to play in.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JB
CloakNNNdagger said:
Independent of PFF, watching both of their play tells me all I need to know to differentiate their play. At least at this point, I see Sauce moving better and reading better. But you certainly are entitled to your opinion.
Click to expand...
So far they are playing in 2 totally different schemes and it's impossible for PFF to give an analytical comparison. PFF is part of the equation not the entire equation. This comes from a guy who's saying Sauce has been great the 1st seven games of his career. It's way too early to making judgements on who's better.
 
steelbtexan said:
So far they are playing in 2 totally different schemes and it's impossible for PFF to give an analytical comparison. PFF is part of the equation not the entire equation. This comes from a guy who's saying Sauce has been great the 1st seven games of his career. It's way too early to making judgements on who's better.
Click to expand...
Yeah, but did you promote the grade PFF gave Tunsil ?
 
Mr teX said:
I don't. I only see him getting the opportunity to make more plays on the ball..partly b/c he's a bit more handsy, but mainly b/c he's playing in a more attack style defense... not the soft zone bend but don't break style that Stingley is being asked to play in.
Click to expand...
What about when he was man to man with Sutton and Mike Williams?
 
steelbtexan said:
So far they are playing in 2 totally different schemes and it's impossible for PFF to give an analytical comparison. PFF is part of the equation not the entire equation. This comes from a guy who's saying Sauce has been great the 1st seven games of his career. It's way too early to making judgements on who's better.
Click to expand...
Saleh in his scheme plays alot of cover 2 also just like Ryans in SF
 
steelbtexan said:
So far they are playing in 2 totally different schemes and it's impossible for PFF to give an analytical comparison. PFF is part of the equation not the entire equation. This comes from a guy who's saying Sauce has been great the 1st seven games of his career. It's way too early to making judgements on who's better.
Click to expand...
CloakNNNdagger said:
Independent of PFF, watching both of their play tells me all I need to know to differentiate their play. At least at this point, I see Sauce moving better and reading better. But you certainly are entitled to your opinion.
Click to expand...
 
leebigeztx said:
What about when he was man to man with Sutton and Mike Williams?
Click to expand...

You can scour youtube and look at those clips..at least 3 could've easily been called PI. That's not even talking about the obvious PI that should've been called on him for the Jeudy pass play to the end zone where he's clearly grabbing at his shoulder trying to hold him back. 1 he went thru Sutton & arrived before the ball. The other went well beyond the typical "hand fighting"...& that 4th down play he literally reached down in Sutton's shoulder pads with 1 arm while holding his shoulder with his front side arm...Stingley got called for 2 PI calls in his game against Sutton for way less than that..
1666799314679.png 1666799420147.png


If you pay attention to both those clips as well, you can see Sauce's reaction. He's looking around shocked...b/c he's expecting a flag to be thrown b/c his **** was so egregrious.

He's got great talent....& he has played well....but the hype around this kid & his play thus far is getting way out of control.
 
Mr teX said:
You can scour youtube and look at those clips..at least 3 could've easily been called PI. That's not even talking about the obvious PI that should've been called on him for the Jeudy pass play to the end zone where he's clearly grabbing at his shoulder trying to hold him back. 1 he went thru Sutton & arrived before the ball. The other went well beyond the typical "hand fighting"...& that 4th down play he literally reached down in Sutton's shoulder pads with 1 arm while holding his shoulder with his front side arm...Stingley got called for 2 PI calls in his game against Sutton for way less than that..
View attachment 10937 View attachment 10938


If you pay attention to both those clips as well, you can see Sauce's reaction. He's looking around shocked...b/c he's expecting a flag to be thrown b/c his **** was so egregrious.

He's got great talent....& he has played well....but the hype around this kid & his play thus far is getting way out of control.
Click to expand...
That means he know how to bend the rules without being caught. Its no different than oline players being being professional holders and not get caught.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top