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Derek Stingley vs. Sauce Gardner

Mr teX said:
He’s an idiot is what he is & there’s no point in “getting into it” those types. He can laugh all he wants. He doing the opposite of what he’s trying to do. He’s showing exactly how much he doesn’t know about ball by trying to act like he’s pointing something out.
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That's what you always have when you can't win an argument; calling people idiot and this and that.

Mike Tomlin says a CB has to be able to provide strong run support.
I just gave an example of his 2nd rounder rookie shedding a block on the goal line and stood up the big FB.

I think I trust Tomlin more than anybody on this board when it comes to football.
 
76Texan said:
That's what you always have when you can't win an argument; calling people idiot and this and that.

Mike Tomlin says a CB has to be able to provide strong run support.
I just gave an example of his 2nd rounder rookie shedding a block on the goal line and stood up the big FB.

I think I trust Tomlin more than anybody on this board when it comes to football.
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lol, cut the crap dude.

1st you have to have a credible argument…which u never do…that’s why I always say it to you:)

2nd of all, you’re twisting Tomlin’s words to suit your argument. “Strong run support” isn’t the same thing as stonewalling a RB dead in his tracks coming with a full head of steam so that he doesn’t gain literally an inch in a goal to go situation……..Which is what you & your idiot Ravens bro apparently expected Stingley to do there….this, when no db in the league is doing that.
 
Decim8 said:
A lot of the dbs take bad angles. Even if stingley did get his angle right….there was no way he was going to stop dobbins a yard out
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Doesn't matter.
You want to see contact.

And he was in no position to make any contact.

Mike Tomlin set the bar to his CBs:
Shed the block and make a good attempt at a tackle.

RBs had been stopped cold by a CB before.
Ask Kareem Jackson.

The Ravens back, Justice Hill, is only 196lbs.

Jackson had stopped many big guys dead in his track as shown above.

He even stopped a big TE (I think it was Kelce).

It can be done.
It has been done many times.

The start with Stingley is to make contact.
 
Mr teX said:
lol, cut the crap dude.

1st you have to have a credible argument…which u never do…that’s why I always say it to you:)

2nd of all, you’re twisting Tomlin’s words to suit your argument. “Strong run support” isn’t the same thing as stonewalling a RB dead in his tracks coming with a full head of steam so that he doesn’t gain literally an inch in a goal to go situation……..Which is what you & your idiot Ravens bro apparently expected Stingley to do there….this, when no db in the league is doing that.
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Strong run support = shed block and stood up the damm FB.
 
Mr teX said:
lol, cut the crap dude.

1st you have to have a credible argument…which u never do…that’s why I always say it to you:)

2nd of all, you’re twisting Tomlin’s words to suit your argument. “Strong run support” isn’t the same thing as stonewalling a RB dead in his tracks coming with a full head of steam so that he doesn’t gain literally an inch in a goal to go situation……..Which is what you & your idiot Ravens bro apparently expected Stingley to do there….this, when no db in the league is doing that.
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How do you defend every blades of the grass with a CB on the edge?

Tomlin was quoted saying this many times
https://www.steelers.com/news/hearing-from-coach-mike-tomlin-1042427

That their defense is trained like that.

Obviously you can't defend anything by hitting air.
 
Mr teX said:
lol, cut the crap dude.

1st you have to have a credible argument…which u never do…that’s why I always say it to you:)

2nd of all, you’re twisting Tomlin’s words to suit your argument. “Strong run support” isn’t the same thing as stonewalling a RB dead in his tracks coming with a full head of steam so that he doesn’t gain literally an inch in a goal to go situation……..Which is what you & your idiot Ravens bro apparently expected Stingley to do there….this, when no db in the league is doing that.
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https://steelersnow.com/run-defense-important-test-for-steelers-rookie-cb/

Read carefully.

The rookie CB shed his blocker and stop big FB on a goaline drill.

Tomlin said they drill for these situations.

You don't practice things you're not gonna do in a game.

He expects his CB to stick his nose in there.
 
76Texan said:
https://steelersnow.com/run-defense-important-test-for-steelers-rookie-cb/

Read carefully.

The rookie CB shed his blocker and stop big FB on a goaline drill.

Tomlin said they drill for these situations.

You don't practice things you're not gonna do in a game.

He expects his CB to stick his nose in there.
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76Texan said:
Look into the mirror.

I bring the proof.

Pardon me if Iisten to Mike Tomlin rather than you.
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You’re not bringing ANYTHING. You’re bringing anecdotal theories about run support and stories about tackling drills lol….Which don’t apply to the situation in question.
 
Mr teX said:
You’re not bringing ANYTHING. You’re bringing anecdotal theories about run support and stories about tackling drills lol….Which don’t apply to the situation in question.
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It does not matter.

The important fact is that Stingley was the guy on the edge on all 3 plays.

The RBs scored easily.

There's nothing you can do to change that fact.
 
76Texan said:
Would I be wrong if I did?
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yes Reality is you can pick ANY player in any game, no matter how good analyze and find plays where things were suboptimal /terrible on their part.

You highlighted plays k-jax made to illustrate your “point” about tackling. Well did you completely forget about K-Jax’s 1st couple of seasons with the Texans? He couldn’t tackle or cover a damn thing & he was hella worse than Stingley.

every time a qb takes a sack or throws a pic, thats a bad play on his part. Every time a WR drops a pass an o-lineman misses a block Do you say they’re garbage?

you’re purposely nitpicking b/c you have something against the player.
 
76Texan said:
It does not matter.

The important fact is that Stingley was the guy on the edge on all 3 plays.

The RBs scored easily.

There's nothing you can do to change that fact.
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and apparently there’s nothing that can get you to understand the fact that Dobbins wasn’t being stopped at the 1 inch line.
 
Mr teX said:
and apparently there’s nothing that can get you to understand the fact that Dobbins wasn’t being stopped at the 1 inch line.
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No.
There's nothing in life that is guaranteed.

But a whiff is a whiff.

And that was what I said from the beginning.

No contact = whiff.

Was there any indication that I expected him to stop it surely?

NO.

But I want an honest hit.
And Stingley was in position to make a hit.

He whiffed.
Pure and simple.

And when that trend continues, it became uggly.

Why can't you understand that?

You think it's OK for the other team to continue to exploit it?
 
Give me a cover CB that can keep contain in the run game and I'm ok with a drag down tackle guy at CB.
 
76Texan said:
No.
There's nothing in life that is guaranteed.

But a whiff is a whiff.

And that was what I said from the beginning.

No contact = whiff.

Was there any indication that I expected him to stop it surely?

NO.

But I want an honest hit.
And Stingley was in position to make a hit.

He whiffed.
Pure and simple.

And when that trend continues, it became uggly.

Why can't you understand that?

You think it's OK for the other team to continue to exploit it?
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You hit a guy to stop his forward momentum, so an “honest hit” really achieves NOTHING in that particular situation…except for to placate 76Texan apparently. & if u didn’t expect him to stop it, what are u bitching about?

there’s nothing to understand about you droning on about this except for the fact that you’re nitpicking about something that really is not uncommon when a team is that close to the goal line.
 
Mr teX said:
You hit a guy to stop his forward momentum, so an “honest hit” really achieves NOTHING in that particular situation…except for to placate 76Texan apparently. & if u didn’t expect him to stop it, what are u bitching about?

there’s nothing to understand about you droning on about this except for the fact that you’re nitpicking about something that really is not uncommon when a team is that close to the goal line.
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So you're telling me those 3TDs are not charged to any defender?
Nobody was responsible for them?
No accountabilty?
No goal line stand?

I wouldn't want a DC nor a HC with that mentality coaching my team.

I would rally to have them fired on the spot.

A 4-yd run and two 2-yd runs.
And the CB cannot be bothered to make an effort to prevent it?

That CB sits in the dog house until he shows he can give 100% effort in practice.
 
Texansballer74 said:
Let it go gents.
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giphy.gif


I really feel like they're getting through to each other. :corrosion:
 
Texansballer74 said:
76 doesn’t like Stingley and he’s doing the same exact thing ole buddy does with CJ.
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Not at all, I haven't said one thing bad about Stroud's play this yr. Please be accurate in your posts. In fact I've said things like, it's going to take 2 1/2/ or 3 yrs before we should begin judging Stroud. 9unlike what you did with Mills) I've also said he's learning and the only question is how fast he can learn. Then I said he will be getting the Mills treatment by this OL until everybody gets healthy by week 5. This is a trial by fire for Stroud and this is a good thing for his development IMHO, because hopefully it will force him to learn to process faster which has been a weakness of Stroud's.
 
TexansBull said:
It is picking a player with a lisfranc injury. That’s the big concern with me.
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I know this is a hard thing to put aside. I wanted Sauce over Gardner if they went CB. However Stingley has been very solid in 2 games this yr and was good last yr. Is he Sauce? Nope. Is he a top 15 type CB? He is IMHO. Does he have the talent to improve as he gaines more experience? Yep.
 
steelbtexan said:
I know this is a hard thing to put aside. I wanted Sauce over Gardner if they went CB. However Stingley has been very solid in 2 games this yr and was good last yr. Is he Sauce? Nope. Is he a top 15 type CB? He is IMHO. Does he have the talent to improve as he gaines more experience? Yep.
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https://twitter.com/x/status/1703804107788620140

https://twitter.com/x/status/1703831133010407877

So far this year (early) Stingley has done well to keep up or out play Sauce.

You can tell by the two tweets how strong people come out for Sauce vs Stingley. And it may always be that way. Stingley may be as good and some cases better than Sauce but because there is this strong following that Sauce has Stingley will never get his due.
 
Texansballer74 said:
Dang I thought he doesn’t like to hit.
https://twitter.com/x/status/1703804107788620140
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At this point, I no longer care about Sauce.

I haven't zeroed on Stingley, and I saw him joining in on a tackle; that's good.

But there were two TDs where he could have been part of the solution, but he wasn’t.

On one, he was completely washed out by the block.
It happens to the best, but it shouldn't happen too often.
If he was able to close up the outside better, it would have helped his teammate with a better chance of stoppingthe second TD by Richardson.

On the third TD, he should have read run and left his man for run support.
It happens to the best, but an elite all-around corner needs to do well more often.
It was too easy of a TD.
(This is in no way absolving the part of our LDT and maybe no. 39).

On the long pass play to 86 Mallory, I'm not quite sure yet, but it looks like cover 3 to me.
(I will have to look at this more carefully since I don't have an All 22 view yet.)
If ít's indeed cover 3, then that's on Stingley.
 
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76Texan said:
At this point, I no longer care about Sauce.

I haven't zeroed on Stingley, and I saw him joining in on a tackle; that's good.

But there were two TDs where he could have been part of the solution, but he wasn’t.

On one, he was completely washed out by the block.
It happens to the best, but it shouldn't happen too often.
If he was able to close up the outside better, it would have helped his teammate with a better chance of stoppingthe second TD by Richardson.

On the third TD, he should have read run and left his man for run support.
It happens to the best, but an elite all-around corner needs to do well more often.
It was too easy of a TD.
(This is in no way absolving the part of our LDT and maybe no. 39).

On the long pass play to 86 Mallory, I'm not quite sure yet, but it looks like cover 3 to me.
(I will have to look at this more carefully since I don't have an All 22 view yet.)
If ít's indeed cover 3, then that's on Stingley.
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I had watched it quite a few times now, and even without the All 22, you can still see the whole field.
That has to be cover 3 and Stingley made 2 mistakes: he made the wrong read jumping the short outside and he stumbled, thus prevented him from recovering.

Watch him arriving late in this clip.
(Without stumbling out of the gate, he might be able to recover to join the single safety.)


For the view of the whole field, any highlight would do.
 
Mr teX said:
lol, cut the crap dude.

1st you have to have a credible argument…which u never do…that’s why I always say it to you:)

2nd of all, you’re twisting Tomlin’s words to suit your argument. “Strong run support” isn’t the same thing as stonewalling a RB dead in his tracks coming with a full head of steam so that he doesn’t gain literally an inch in a goal to go situation……..Which is what you & your idiot Ravens bro apparently expected Stingley to do there….this, when no db in the league is doing that.
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Watch this at 1:45
It can be done and it had been done before.

 
@MrTex


Yes, Stingley could learn to shed his block better.
He was not out of the wood concerning Richardson's 2nd TD.

We continue to see rushing TD to his side; and that's not a good trend.
 
thunderkyss said:
No, you're talking about Kevin Johnson. He had to stop playing because of injuries... to many concussions among others. KJax is still playing far as I know.
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Oh yeah! throw him in that basket too.
Like I said I dont want my coverage corner thinking and acting like he's a MLB or a head hunting FS like pollard was....not their position, not their forte, not built for that kind of contact, and def not built to withstand those kinds of hits.
 
76Texan said:
@MrTex


Yes, Stingley could learn to shed his block better.
He was not out of the wood concerning Richardson's 2nd TD.

We continue to see rushing TD to his side; and that's not a good trend.
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You could learn to shed and block better.

As could most CB's in the NFL, including Sauce. I saw some of the Cowboys game and he looked a lot like Stingley. 1 catch, and that may not have even been his responsibility. I'll take that every Sunday.
 
steelbtexan said:
You could learn to shed and block better.

As could most CB's in the NFL, including Sauce. I saw some of the Cowboys game and he looked a lot like Stingley. 1 catch, and that may not have even been his responsibility. I'll take that every Sunday.
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Like I said, I no longer care about Sauce.

Stingley needs to play better for this D to be better.

That's it.
 
76Texan said:
Like I said, I no longer care about Sauce.

Stingley needs to play better for this D to be better.

That's it.
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Like I said you’re nitpicking b/c you don’t care for the player. A CB’s job in pretty much all schemes 95% of the time in terms of run support is to come up set the edge and squeeze down so as to turn the runner to the main run stoppers pursuing inside. Yes this involves shedding their block & POSSIBLY making the tackle if the runner insists on coming their way. But the main job is to not give the runner the sideline & by and large they WILL NOT be the guys who make the tackle b/c the runner almost always veers inside. I don’t need to watch your tackle drill videos & example of how it should be done b/c I lived it bro. Furthermore, I shouldn’t have to tell you this, but it’s all just theory & defensive scheme anyway….in which case the guys on the other side of the ball have their theory and scheme to counter what the defense is taught to do.

Bottom line? if you’re relying on your cb’s for major run support or your scheme falls apart b/c your cb isn’t shedding his block and jumping in to make the tackle as efficiently as you’d prefer or are coaching, then your scheme is **** & your run defense isn’t good period. Cb’s just aren’t primary defenders in that part of the scheme…any more than a d-lineman is primary in a pass coverage situation…although of course we know that a good pass rush from the d-line helps the back end.

You’re just doing what you do…..attempting to make a mountain out of a molehill. The way you’re trying to phrase this whole debate is our run defense is **** b/c Stingley’s not shedding and making tackles when he’s had opportunities.

in which case we know that’s a joke.
 
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Mr teX said:
Like I said you’re nitpicking b/c you don’t care for the player. A CB’s job in pretty much all schemes 95% of the time in terms of run support is to come up set the edge and squeeze down so as to turn the runner to the main run stoppers pursuing inside. Yes this involves shedding their block & making POSSIBLY making the tackle if the runner insists on coming their way. But the main job is to not give the runner the sideline & by and large they WILL NOT be the guys who make the tackle b/c the runner almost always veers inside. I don’t need to watch your tackle drill videos & example of how it should be done b/c I lived it bro. Furthermore, I shouldn’t have to tell you this, but it’s all just theory & defensive scheme anyway….in which case the guys on the other side of the ball have their theory and scheme to counter what defense is taught to do.

Bottom line? if you’re relying on your cb’s for major run support or your scheme falls apart b/c your cb isn’t shedding his block and jumping in to make tge tackle as efficiently as you’d prefer, then your run defense isn’t good period. They aren’t primary defenders in that part of the scheme…any more than a d-lineman primary in a pass coverage situation…although of course we know that a good pass rush from the d-line helps the back end.

You’re attempting to make a mountain out of a molehill. The way you’re trying to phrase this whole debate is our run defense is **** b/c Stingley’s not shedding and making tackles when he’s had opportunities.

in which case we know that’s a joke.
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I never said the CBs are primary defenders in the run game.
I clearly said run support.

Let's just stop here.
I continued to say that if Stingley keeps playing this way, the opponents will continue to score on his side.
It's what been happening.
The opponents are running to his side, and they've been scoring, rather easily.

I may not play football, but I watched I studied it plenty.

It's your saying that Stingley was doing his job on Richardson's 2nd TD that made me laugh.
You were defending a bad play even before I get to criticize it. 🤣

Showing how defensive you were and still are.

Why do you think I started the DLine thread?
I know they haven't been doing their job, but that does not absolve others from bad plays or subpar play of their own.

It's your continuing to defend him no matter what that make me feel the need to give another viewpoint.

He's drafted third.
He hasn't played up to that draft status.
His play is subpar.
Deal with the criticism.

I has scouted Kareem Jackson.
I know what good tackling is.
I had seen him stopped a TD run on the goal line in college - at the one yard line; I had mentioned it on the old TT board during draft time.

(I don't need to rehash his rookie year.
I already had a two-year long argument on that against several board members and KJax proved me right.)
(That TexansTalk Board was merged with another board to become this one.)
 
76Texan said:
I never said the CBs are primary defenders in the run game.
I clearly said run support.

Let's just stop here.
I continued to say that if Stingley keeps playing this way, the opponents will continue to score on his side.
It's what been happening.
The opponents are running to his side, and they've been scoring, rather easily.

I may not play football, but I watched I studied it plenty.

It's your saying that Stingley was doing his job on Richardson's 2nd TD that made me laugh.
You were defending a bad play even before I get to criticize it. 🤣

Showing how defensive you were and still are.

Why do you think I started the DLine thread?
I know they haven't been doing their job, but that does not absolve others from bad plays or subpar play of their own.

It's your continuing to defend him no matter what that make me feel the need to give another viewpoint.

He's drafted third.
He hasn't played up to that draft status.
His play is subpar.
Deal with the criticism.

I has scouted Kareem Jackson.
I know what good tackling is.
I had seen him stopped a TD run on the goal line in college - at the one yard line; I had mentioned it on the old TT board during draft time.

(I don't need to rehash his rookie year.
I already had a two-year long argument on that against several board members and KJax proved me right.)
(That TexansTalk Board was merged with another board to become this one.)
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You’re clearly reaching for something to validate your opinion..& you don’t know what the hell you’re talking about. Go sit down somewhere.

Yeah u should stop & go watch more tape b/c it’s obvious you’re applying some sort of terrible but irrelevant grading scale to something that is really not as dire as you’re trying to act like it is….or you just don’t know how to apply what it is you’re talking about. Plenty of guys play CoD and think they’re bad ass soldiers…but most would **** themselves in a real combat situation b/c I imagine it’s nothing like a damn video game.

the offense isn’t basing what they do run game wise b/c Stingley’s over there on that side dude..that’s just proposterous. whatever they ARE seeing probably has more to do with the front seven’s inability to contain than Stingley’s ability/inability to effectively help in run support according to the textbook way in which you apparently believe things evolve on the football field….

that play is about as “bad” as a running back not running thru the hole a play was designed to go thru. Instead, the rb goes through another neighboring hole. Different hole, same result.. but to you, that’s bad b/c “he didn’t go where the play was designed!”



:lol: you sound dumb bro.
 
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Mr teX said:
You’re clearly reaching for something to validate your opinion..& you don’t know what the hell you’re talking about. Go sit down somewhere.

Yeah u should stop & go watch more tape b/c it’s obvious you’re applying some sort of terrible but irrelevant grading scale to something that is really not as dire as you’re trying to act like it is….or you just don’t know how to apply what it is you’re talking about. Plenty of guys play CoD and think they’re bad ass soldiers…but most would **** themselves know in a real combat situation b/c I imagine it’s nothing like a damn video game.

the offense isn’t basing what they do run game wise b/c Stingley’s over there on that side dude..that’s just proposterous. whatever they ARE seeing probably has more to do with the front seven inability to contain than Stingley’s ability/inability to effectively help in run support….
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Did you see the Panthers got stopped on the one yard line ?
 
Mr teX said:
You’re clearly reaching for something to validate your opinion..& you don’t know what the hell you’re talking about. Go sit down somewhere.

Yeah u should stop & go watch more tape b/c it’s obvious you’re applying some sort of terrible but irrelevant grading scale to something that is really not as dire as you’re trying to act like it is….or you just don’t know how to apply what it is you’re talking about. Plenty of guys play CoD and think they’re bad ass soldiers…but most would **** themselves know in a real combat situation b/c I imagine it’s nothing like a damn video game.

the offense isn’t basing what they do run game wise b/c Stingley’s over there on that side dude..that’s just proposterous. whatever they ARE seeing probably has more to do with the front seven inability to contain than Stingley’s ability/inability to effectively help in run support….
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They don't need to target any side.
It's simply a fact that when they run on Stingley's side, they scored easily.
That's a fact.
 
76Texan said:
They don't need to target any side.
It's simply a fact that when they run on Stingley's side, they scored easily.
That's a fact.
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No it’s not a “fact”. It’s football & they scored just as easily on the 1st TD run Richardson ran in from 18 yards ON THE OTHER SIDE away from Stingley.

Is that b/c he made a “bad” play too? He sucks b/c he didn’t run all the way across the formation to help Nelson and the front 7 in run support too?
:lol:

like I said you sound dumb & you don’t know what you’re talking about.
 
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