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Demaryius Thomas traded to Texans

76Texan

Hall of Fame
I feel like they needed help at WR having lost Fuller and who knows if Coutee is going to get healthy and stay healthy.

DTs contract worries me somewhat that we might have spent a 4th on an 8 game rental but I guess we see ourselves as in contention right now and he will be necessary in those 8 games.

Hoping he has enough left to be able to capitalise on single coverages and lesser CBs.

Watson is throwing the ball better and better so he should be able to put up some numbers to justify the contract.
I had watched almost all the Broncos games the last 4 years (from the Osweiler's days in Denver).
DT is a different player now.
He doesn't play as physical as before.
He doesn't extend himself much anymore.
Etc.
Basically, he's just a possession receiver at the moment.

On the other hand, when you watch the young guy, Sutton; he reminds you of the former DT.
 

Shishkabob

All Pro
Can anyone elaborate on the lingering effects of DT's slight tear in his hip labrum from the past? Supposedly he still suffered from it in preseason this year and has been playing though it.
So he suffered a labrum tear week 1 in 2016 I believe. He played through it in 16 and 17 not missing any games, although he admitted that it almost caused him to retire because with it he wasn't playing up to the standards he was used to. This last offseason he has completely changed his diet, hired an in home cook to man plan for him and all that jazz, changed his workout routine and dropped his weight from 228 to like 212. He said before the season he feels better now than he has in the last few years, and important to note he hasn't appeared on any of the Broncos injury reports this season. He hasn't had any practices off which if he still had lingering effects you would expect his team to maybe give him a day off or at least a light practice here and there for a veteran receiver.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
I had watched almost all the Broncos games the last 4 years (from the Osweiler's days in Denver).
DT is a different player now.
He doesn't play as physical as before.
He doesn't extend himself much anymore.
Etc.
Basically, he's just a possession receiver at the moment.

On the other hand, when you watch the young guy, Sutton; he reminds you of the former DT.
Explain the deep ball he caught against the NYJ's where he went up and took the ball away from the defender for a TD? Looked plenty physical enough to me to help Keenum out. I see DT doing alot more of this with Watson.
 

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Explain the deep ball he caught against the NYJ's where he went up and took the ball away from the defender for a TD? Looked plenty physical enough to me to help Keenum out. I see DT doing alot more of this with Watson.
so you want an older player to replicate his signature play of the year consistently for the Texans? LOL okay.
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
That was how many years ago?

Funny how all NE and Belicheck disciples have an understanding of the system, but can never put it together.

Could the secret ingredient be Tom Brady? Something that can’t be easily replicated?
It pretty much is. The media very rarely talks about all of the failures that come through NE that either can't learn the playbook, can't stay healthy, or just don't work out. The Patriots every year are riddled with injuries as well. Bill makes a lot of sneaky trades and FA acquisitions but he's terrible when it comes to bringing in so many injury prone players.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
so you want an older player to replicate his signature play of the year consistently for the Texans? LOL okay.
I bet he does.

You know he's put up close to the same numbers as Fuller. If he was what you say he is that wouldn't be happening. Plus he's an upgrade as a blocking WR. Maybe that will give Miller a chance to get longer runs.

I still think the OL sucks and the CB position is hurting so this will only be a 9-10 win team. But I'm sure all of that will be BOB's fault in the end in your mind. When it's really he talent level on the team.
 

Shishkabob

All Pro
It pretty much is. The media very rarely talks about all of the failures that come through NE that either can't learn the playbook, can't stay healthy, or just don't work out. The Patriots every year are riddled with injuries as well. Bill makes a lot of sneaky trades and FA acquisitions but he's terrible when it comes to bringing in so many injury prone players.
BB not a HOF GM, but is a HOF coach that is clear
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
I feel like they needed help at WR having lost Fuller and who knows if Coutee is going to get healthy and stay healthy.

DTs contract worries me somewhat that we might have spent a 4th on an 8 game rental but I guess we see ourselves as in contention right now and he will be necessary in those 8 games.

Hoping he has enough left to be able to capitalise on single coverages and lesser CBs.

Watson is throwing the ball better and better so he should be able to put up some numbers to justify the contract.
Oh but what a great 8 games it could be! By end of it we could be very willing to have his cap hit..or a good detention with reworked 2019. This is like getting a used race car for very reasonable cost.
Edit: extension..spell check.
 
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76Texan

Hall of Fame
Explain the deep ball he caught against the NYJ's where he went up and took the ball away from the defender for a TD? Looked plenty physical enough to me to help Keenum out. I see DT doing alot more of this with Watson.
You need to check your eyes, buddy.
They were both cruising.
Their feet barely left the ground.
The CB might have caught his toes slightly on the turf.
At the least, he mis-timed his jump and gave DT an easy one there.
That one should have been easily broken up.

It would have been interesting to actually see how he would have fought for the ball.
 

Shishkabob

All Pro
You need to check your eyes, buddy.
They were both cruising.
Their feet barely left the ground.
The CB might have caught his toes slightly on the turf.
At the least, he mis-timed his jump and gave DT an easy one there.
That one should have been easily broken up.

It would have been interesting to actually see how he would have fought for the ball.
he didn't say he high pointed the ball from the defender. But DT did beat his corner on a deep ball, recognized it was underthrown, worked his way back, and was strong enough at the point of catch that the DB running into him didn't push him off his spot allowing him to reach up over the DBs head and grab the ball through the DBs arms, that is fighting for a football. A half hearted attempt and that is an incompletion or int
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
he didn't say he high pointed the ball from the defender. But DT did beat his corner on a deep ball, recognized it was underthrown, worked his way back, and was strong enough at the point of catch that the DB running into him didn't push him off his spot allowing him to reach up over the DBs head and grab the ball through the DBs arms, that is fighting for a football. A half hearted attempt and that is an incompletion or int
We'd have to disagree partially on this one.
I only said that DT doesn't play as physical as he used to, NOT a whimp.
He didn't beat anybody on that play.
The CB was in great position to defend the play.
He was looking to go after the ball, not the receiver.
(I don't know if you have a copy of the game or if you were just watching the highlights?)

But we'll have more time to see how he plays starting this weekend, so we'll see.

I like to think that with more targets now (hopefully), and the contract situation, he'll be more eager to lay it all on the line for the remainder of the game.

I've been observing the Broncos MB just like I do here from the beginning of the season.
I think I know how the different fans on that board feel about him.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
You need to check your eyes, buddy.
They were both cruising.
Their feet barely left the ground.
The CB might have caught his toes slightly on the turf.
At the least, he mis-timed his jump and gave DT an easy one there.
That one should have been easily broken up.

It would have been interesting to actually see how he would have fought for the ball.
Smh
 

Shishkabob

All Pro
We'd have to disagree partially on this one.
I only said that DT doesn't play as physical as he used to, NOT a whimp.
He didn't beat anybody on that play.
The CB was in great position to defend the play.
He was looking to go after the ball, not the receiver.
(I don't know if you have a copy of the game or if you were just watching the highlights?)

But we'll have more time to see how he plays starting this weekend, so we'll see.

I like to think that with more targets now (hopefully), and the contract situation, he'll be more eager to lay it all on the line for the remainder of the game.

I've been observing the Broncos MB just like I do here from the beginning of the season.
I think I know how the different fans on that board feel about him.
this play right here is what I'm talking about
https://twitter.com/PatDStat/status/1057370933105713152

The DT beats the corner, the ball is under thrown and DT has to make a physical play to get the ball. The corner never turned his head so he didn't slow down for the ball, and Case didn't even release the ball until DT was going around the corner

my bad though I forgot you are the only one here who has watched Denver's football team, man what is their name again the rockies or avalanche idk something mountain themed I'm sure
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
this play right here is what I'm talking about
https://twitter.com/PatDStat/status/1057370933105713152

The DT beats the corner, the ball is under thrown and DT has to make a physical play to get the ball. The corner never turned his head so he didn't slow down for the ball, and Case didn't even release the ball until DT was going around the corner

my bad though I forgot you are the only one here who has watched Denver's football team, man what is their name again the rockies or avalanche idk something mountain themed I'm sure
This tells me you don't have the game on the big screen.
The CB was looking back at the ball in the last ten yards.
His toes got caught on the turf as I had said, causing him not to be able to properly time his jump; he couldn't hardy jump already, yet his left hand was still slightly above DT's (granted DT had both hands up).
It was a good catch, but DT wasn't beating anybody. The CB beat himself.
 

Shishkabob

All Pro
This tells me you don't have the game on the big screen.
The CB was looking back at the ball in the last ten yards.
His toes got caught on the turf as I had said, causing him not to be able to properly time his jump; he couldn't hardy jump already, yet his left hand was still slightly above DT's (granted DT had both hands up).
It was a good catch, but DT wasn't beating anybody. The CB beat himself.
Have it fully blown up on my computer, little grainy but I don't see the DB look back until he is already getting passed and DT is looking back. Before that he was trying to force DT to the boundary like you are taught to do as a corner, DT beat him over the top(you can enter whatever excuse you want getting beat is getting beat) if Case laid the ball out in front that DB doesn't even have a chance to make a play, but because it was under thrown DT used his physicality to make a play on the ball
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Have it fully blown up on my computer, little grainy but I don't see the DB look back until he is already getting passed and DT is looking back. Before that he was trying to force DT to the boundary like you are taught to do as a corner, DT beat him over the top(you can enter whatever excuse you want getting beat is getting beat) if Case laid the ball out in front that DB doesn't even have a chance to make a play, but because it was under thrown DT used his physicality to make a play on the ball
That picture is still grainy.
I have the game here.
The CB was looking back at the ball for the last ten yards.
 

Shishkabob

All Pro
The #Texans adding Demaryius Thomas has to do with the complete picture of this offense. No doubt not the vertical threat that Will Fuller is but this offense is better suited when they have 3 WRs on the field.

— patrick (@PatDStat) October 31, 2018


Think about when Keke Coutee started playing and what happened to Will Fuller’s targets and catches in that stretch when both were healthy.

Coutee Targets 30
Fuller Targets 11

The big picture is this. Hopkins will remain the alpha and this offense allows the slot players to be that menace across the middle, in this case Coutee. Thomas is fitting into a role that will ask him to win one-on-ones and move coverages.

The thing that Thomas does that Smith and Coates Jr. cant do it make defenses respect them. Thomas still has defenses accounting for him and his big frame allows him to have a clear advantage over DBs.

Thomas was putting up some quality numbers with Manning was throwing him the football. His numbers started to slide when Siemian, Lynch, Osweiler and Keenum took over at QB.

This is a real thing, Hopkins had a down year when Osweiler was throwing him the football. Just have a QB that can get the ball to you can change things. I feel the same about DT the past two seasons.

Just from quick film study, DT had defenders beat and the ball came out late many times allowing defenders to close. DTs downfall in the stats department is QB driven.

The big picture is key for the offense. Keeping the field balanced and not having a dead spot when skill players line up. Thomas at least fills a void of someone that can cause issues for a defense.

I still think Coutee is the biggest part of the solution but him getting healthy is the issues in all of this.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Have it fully blown up on my computer, little grainy but I don't see the DB look back until he is already getting passed and DT is looking back. Before that he was trying to force DT to the boundary like you are taught to do as a corner, DT beat him over the top(you can enter whatever excuse you want getting beat is getting beat) if Case laid the ball out in front that DB doesn't even have a chance to make a play, but because it was under thrown DT used his physicality to make a play on the ball
Wasting your time
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
The #Texans adding Demaryius Thomas has to do with the complete picture of this offense. No doubt not the vertical threat that Will Fuller is but this offense is better suited when they have 3 WRs on the field.

— patrick (@PatDStat) October 31, 2018


Think about when Keke Coutee started playing and what happened to Will Fuller’s targets and catches in that stretch when both were healthy.

Coutee Targets 30
Fuller Targets 11

The big picture is this. Hopkins will remain the alpha and this offense allows the slot players to be that menace across the middle, in this case Coutee. Thomas is fitting into a role that will ask him to win one-on-ones and move coverages.

The thing that Thomas does that Smith and Coates Jr. cant do it make defenses respect them. Thomas still has defenses accounting for him and his big frame allows him to have a clear advantage over DBs.

Thomas was putting up some quality numbers with Manning was throwing him the football. His numbers started to slide when Siemian, Lynch, Osweiler and Keenum took over at QB.

This is a real thing, Hopkins had a down year when Osweiler was throwing him the football. Just have a QB that can get the ball to you can change things. I feel the same about DT the past two seasons.

Just from quick film study, DT had defenders beat and the ball came out late many times allowing defenders to close. DTs downfall in the stats department is QB driven.

The big picture is key for the offense. Keeping the field balanced and not having a dead spot when skill players line up. Thomas at least fills a void of someone that can cause issues for a defense.

I still think Coutee is the biggest part of the solution but him getting healthy is the issues in all of this.
I think Pat overgenalize then situation a little bit there.
The Broncos had a great situation when Manning got there.
He's a great QB alright.
But
They've also got a very good offensive line that can protect the QB.
They've got a great defense that can give the ball back to the offense more often.
They've got a lot of weapons such that the opponents can't really key on any single player.
DT was the number one target because he was young and good.
The Broncos decided to stress the passing game due to those circumstances.
 

michaelm

vox nihili
I get that people want to compare DT and Fuller, and how their roles differ in this offense but that comparison is mostly just mental masterbation.

The valid comparison is DT versus whoever else was going to replace Fuller on the outside.
And no matter how you slice it, DT is a major upgrade over replacement.

Even with the realization that an adjustment to the offense is necessary with DT at that position instead of Fuller.
No matter who would have replaced Fuller, some adjustments were going to be needed because outside of DeSean Jackson, there was literally nobody else available that can do what Fuller can do.
 
dt sucks. hes a has been. he was slow 4 years ago. hes a glorified te. better than not having him, but lets not act like its a huge pickup. hes eric moulds.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
My eyes tell me Fuller has been better in his route running this yr. If all he can do is run a 9 route, it cuts his effectiveness. The fact his speed opens up a comeback route is huge. You're the resident doctor, so you know better than I do.
Your eyes and mine agree. Unfortunately, quite a few of his routes will be limited when he returns.
 

Shishkabob

All Pro
Yup.
Looking at a grainy picture is wasting time allright. LOL.
hmm here is a very clear close up of the touchdown

https://www.houstontexans.com/video/highlights-demaryius-thomas-impressive-42-yard-td

Thomas clearly has his head turned well before Robert's, and his still pulling away from him. Roberts turns his head steps on Thomas' foot, but is able to recover due to Thomas having to slow down for an under thrown ball. Thomas makes a strong catch.

but yea I will remember to defer all info of the Broncos to you oh messiah of the mountain, the only one the great saviour John Elway allows to watch his football team
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
hmm here is a very clear close up of the touchdown

https://www.houstontexans.com/video/highlights-demaryius-thomas-impressive-42-yard-td

Thomas clearly has his head turned well before Robert's, and his still pulling away from him. Roberts turns his head steps on Thomas' foot, but is able to recover due to Thomas having to slow down for an under thrown ball. Thomas makes a strong catch.

but yea I will remember to defer all info of the Broncos to you oh messiah of the mountain, the only one the great saviour John Elway allows to watch his football team
Proof that people see what they want to see.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
hmm here is a very clear close up of the touchdown

https://www.houstontexans.com/video/highlights-demaryius-thomas-impressive-42-yard-td

Thomas clearly has his head turned well before Robert's, and his still pulling away from him. Roberts turns his head steps on Thomas' foot, but is able to recover due to Thomas having to slow down for an under thrown ball. Thomas makes a strong catch.

but yea I will remember to defer all info of the Broncos to you oh messiah of the mountain, the only one the great saviour John Elway allows to watch his football team
And you can't see that the CB was looking at the ball for 15 yards (that's called locating the ball) and that he stumbled on himself slightly a little bit before he was getting ready to make the jump?
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
I get that people want to compare DT and Fuller, and how their roles differ in this offense but that comparison is mostly just mental masterbation.

The valid comparison is DT versus whoever else was going to replace Fuller on the outside.
And no matter how you slice it, DT is a major upgrade over replacement.

Even with the realization that an adjustment to the offense is necessary with DT at that position instead of Fuller.
No matter who would have replaced Fuller, some adjustments were going to be needed because outside of DeSean Jackson, there was literally nobody else available that can do what Fuller can do.
Exactly.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
Look, at 31 , he's not the guy he used to be. As a Texan fan, who did you want, coates? This is about being able to beat 2nd corners and inside the red zone. Remember the role Aquan Boldin played on that last Ravens championship team? That's how I see DT. Once KeKe gets back , that will be the quick, easy throws. The tight ends will also help with the between the hash offense. When they roll coverage to Hopkins, DT will be asked to beat that 2nd corner.
 

Speedy

Yeller Dweller
What's the argument again? Roberts starts looking back at the 25 yard line, the turf monster gets him at the 17, he recovers, still has good coverage, goes up with DT at the 10, DT comes down with it.

I really don't know what more there is to say about it or why y'all are going on and on about it.

This is a real thing, Hopkins had a down year when Osweiler was throwing him the football. Just have a QB that can get the ball to you can change things. I feel the same about DT the past two seasons.
Yes it is real. In 9 games before Manning got hurt DT's catch rate was 66%. In the 6 games with Osweiler at QB his catch rate dropped to 49%. Back up to 62% with Semien the next year.

Hopkins, 58% career without Osweiler, 51% with him. Hopkins in 14 games with Watson, 66%.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
What's the argument again? Roberts starts looking back at the 25 yard line, the turf monster gets him at the 17, he recovers, still has good coverage, goes up with DT at the 10, DT comes down with it.

I really don't know what more there is to say about it or why y'all are going on and on about it.



Yes it is real. In 9 games before Manning got hurt DT's catch rate was 66%. In the 6 games with Osweiler at QB his catch rate dropped to 49%. Back up to 62% with Semien the next year.

Hopkins, 58% career without Osweiler, 51% with him. Hopkins in 14 games with Watson, 66%.
My argument is that the CB didn't get beat.
He was locating the ball the whole time, but the turf monster slow him down.

As for catch rate, DT is just over 64% this year, while Sanders is at over 77%, and Sanders run more deep routes (over 20 yards).

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/receiving

Actually, NextGen stats simply takes the number of catches and divide it by the number of targets (36/56 = 64.29%).
If you subtract the 6 drops, he only has 50 targets or he should have had 42 catches; however you want to look at it.
Either way will bump up the actual catch rate figure.
 

Sonny

TexSon Proud
Well he may be cut if/when we get our hurt pass catchers back healthy.
That's what's kinda brilliant about this trade..
Thomas is gonna break his neck going balls to the wall in hopes of either justifying our keeping him another year, hence his 14mm, or at the least appealing to another GM for said 14mm.
Either way.. he will not play lightly into this good season.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
he didn't say he high pointed the ball from the defender. But DT did beat his corner on a deep ball, recognized it was underthrown, worked his way back, and was strong enough at the point of catch that the DB running into him didn't push him off his spot allowing him to reach up over the DBs head and grab the ball through the DBs arms, that is fighting for a football. A half hearted attempt and that is an incompletion or int
BTW, I think you overplay a few things there.

It's not like a receiver lines up at the LOS, runs a straight line without any contact from the CB.

And the QB has a computer that can calculate all of that instantaneously, accounting for the number of steps on the drop back on a particular pass (while also accounting for the pass rush).

The job of a good NFL receiver (one that makes 14M/yr) is to make the plays of this type.
I would even call this one a routine catch.
Making a play (as a playmaker) is a different thing.

Yes, it was a good catch, but it's a catch that any receiver that gets paid that much is supposed to catch, when he wasn't really challenged by the CB.

Targeted air yards, DT- 10.6, Sanders- 9.3
You're right about the numbers, as Sanders was used more and in various ways.

Pull up the route charts from NextGen Stats.
I'm on my phone and it's a bit troublesome to do it.
You will see that Sanders run many more deep routes (but also more screen plays.)
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
I charted them, and 4 were to Sanders, 3 to Sutton, and 2 to DT.
You should be able to see them all on YouTube game highlights.
You're the one making the assertion... it's on you to provide the proof
 


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