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DE Tony Weaver signed
- Thread starter samomin
- Start date
Coach C.
Veteran
Well I am going to default and trust the judgement of the Texans, but I must say this move kinda pisses me off. We overpay for a mid-level talent guy when we dont have to. One thing we need is a pass rush and we have the ability to get a lights out type of guy in the draft and we focus on getting a DE/DT tweener that has been average at best. Is Gaffney resigned? Is Jeb Putzier here? What about Teyo Johnson or something resembling a MLB? Yet we spend money on this cat. Not to knock Weaver, because when healthy he is strong against the run, but now it looks like we are set on a particular guy. DAMN Ferens this guy is the true reason we on the message board are constantly bitching about contracts and overpaying.
What we got is an established NFL starter at a key position where we didn't have a single body on the existing roster who could even line up there.Coach C. said:
As far as paying too much, its a condition us and other bottom feeding teams
in the NFL have to suffer until they we get better. In the meantime, we just
have to bite the bullet and live with it.
Most teams primary pass rusher plays the weak side, so we may still use a
2nd or 3rd round pick (or lower) on somebody like Darryl Tapp, a smaller DE
who is a steller pass rusher off the edge, to compete with Peek, Babin, etc.
for the weakside DE.
Coach C.
Veteran
Nun is Weaver in the same stratosphere of talent as Mario Williams? Ok we have the chance to get the best edge rusher in the draft and we decide to give up cash for a guy that is a small DT and plays that way. He is good against the run, but plays DT against the pass or did you not catch a Baltimore game. Dont you think we have enough DTs?
Coach C.
Veteran
Yeah GW is gone but what does that matter. We have Robaire, TJ, and Payne all of which are making good money. On top of that we have Alfred Malone, Deloach, and Ioane who have not been released yet. Malone showed up in his playing time proving that he has a motor and will work his *** off. So why get this guy. My thing is we could have just put TJ or Robaire at the SDE if we wanted a guy good against the run and with minimal burst off the edge.
Of course he's not at the same level as Mario is expected to be, but he won'tCoach C. said:
cost us our top pick either. My expectation of him is that he'll be adequate, and if thats exceeded then its a bonus.
But this guy can play DE in both the 4-3 & 3-4 (as Mario could), and I don't think we'll completeely abandon the 3-4, so his versatility will be a plus.
But Mario is reputed to be the best DE in this Draft, but not neccesarily the
best pass rushing DE. We may yet draft a smaller, but very effective pass
rushing DE to play weakside.
Coach C.
Veteran
Mario can play any position in the front seven. He has played everything even lined up at SS when he first got to NCST. Now he cannot play in the secondary, but as a 34 OLB or DE he could be a terror. He is worth the first overall pick and he is better than what we could get a later rounds. I just refuse to believe that when you look at Weaver you see a guy that is going to improve our pass rush.
Coach C.
Veteran
nun this we do agree on. I think they do have a bigger fish to fry with the pick. Unfortunately I am just not sold on the idea that it will be the upgrade that we desperately need. I think RB is definately an upgrade over DD, but Kubes has had a fast multi-faceted back in Clinton Portis so I know he can do big time things with him. The question I ask is what is more important 1500 total yards and 10TDs or 12-15 sacks and 4FF plus who knows how many pressures. That is my question I think one sack can change the game more than a 100 yd game, but I am a defense guy so I could just be wrong.
I haven't read through the last few pages of this thread so I don't know if this has been posted already. If it has, please ignore or delete.
5 years - $26.5 million with a $12 million signing bonus. (per the Chronic)
That's Walker, Wade, and Smith money right there (actually more guaranteed)
5 years - $26.5 million with a $12 million signing bonus. (per the Chronic)
That's Walker, Wade, and Smith money right there (actually more guaranteed)
Johnny Utah
Rookie
The only way the Texans will be able to bring in a free agent this year is if they 1) overpay or 2) get a hometown player who wants to come home.
The Texans were the worst team in the league last year. No way a player would want to play here for fair market value.
The Texans were the worst team in the league last year. No way a player would want to play here for fair market value.
Coach C.
Veteran
We dont need to bring in overpriced mid level talent though. We have enough mid and low level talent on the squad right now. AJ I really hope you are kidding on those numbers. Hey Vinny chime in on this signing I want your honest opinion, dont sugar coated give the pure crap of this signing.
Coach C. said:
I'm not kidding on those numbers. I'm sitting here reading it in the Chronicle Sports page C1.
The online version: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/3717783.html
Coach C.
Veteran
If I could just type a post full of F-bombs I would. That is how I feel about this signing. AJ my question is do you think this is a good signing you seemed to be ok with Weaver and think he is a good addition. I think you have your next story for Voice of the Fan. Overspending for mid-level talent.
Coach C. said:
Actually I've been a bit non-comittal on Weaver the player. In one of my early early posts I said that I haven't seen him play at all outside the what three? times the Texans have played Balt.
My concerns are more money related. I felt that the contract they gave Weigert was terrible back in '03 but that one turned out okay. I felt that the contracts they gave Walker, Wade, Smith, Greenwood were terrible and those fears are proving true. I'd say that Carr is another huge unknown but I don't want this thread to get hijacked like the rest. Draft day trades are a separate issue but also a peeve of mine.
Coach C. said:
You read my mind. On the rare occaision I will get and idea from here since there are a lot of insightful Voices out there, but I generally like to stay away from that since I don't want to simply regurgitate what's in here. I usually get an idea that pops into my head - like the "Price of Free Agency when You're a Bad Team" - and then develop it on my own without too much external influence other than the research I do reading dozens of online newspapers.
Coach C.
Veteran
Gotcha. Well I cant wait to read your insight on the Voice of the Fan especially on this topic. As far as Weaver goes, he is not a pass rusher and the Baltimore papers wanted him as a DT to replace the departed Kimo. They are targeting a rusher in the draft at that. One that is strong against the run, but could take some pressure away from Terell Suggs.
edo783
Hall of Fame
I see this a bit differently than some, most who are the "Draft Mario 1st" group. Trevor Price WAS a good DE who's career is on the downhill slide, over 30, and has a MAJOR issue with a back surgury and wasn't the full time starting DE for Denver, he got 25 Mill. With Weaver we get a young DE at 25, a 4 year starter on one of the best defenses in the NFL, Very good against the run and has improved against the pass, well thought of and considered a hard worker with a non-stop motor who we get for 26.5 Mill. Given we are at the bottom of the league that doesn't look like an unreasonable deal. An old mostly used up DE for 25 mill or a young up and coming expereinced DE for 25.6Mill....Mmmmmmm...I think I would take the young guy. Is he as good as Mario MIGHT be....Nope, but we weren't really going to take Mario anyway unless we traded down and that doesn't look very likely, so rather than not having a good DE on draft day because no trade was available, they now have one. I don't believe there was every any consideration to take Mario with the 1st pick. To many issues with doing that.
swtbound07
Jackass of Day!
new theory:
Each year in free agency, we have to overpay one player with the initials TW
last year todd wade,
this year tony weaver.
next year....?
Each year in free agency, we have to overpay one player with the initials TW
last year todd wade,
this year tony weaver.
next year....?
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
Coach C. said:
If interested here is a thread bringing up Ferens and some thoughts.
http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showthread.php?t=18277&highlight=ferens
bigTEXan8
Rookie
swtbound07 said:
Taco Wallace (WR), Troy Walters (WR), Ty Warren (DT), Ted Washington (DT), Todd Weiner (haha...Weiner, OT), Travelle Wharton (OT), Tracy White (LB), Taylor Whitley (OG), Tank Williams (S), Tony Williams (DT), Troy Williamson (WR), Tory Woodbury (QB), Tony Wragge (OG).
HoustonFrog
Dallas Frog
This is espn.com as updated today. Maybe Charlie begged them to pump up the guy
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2364565
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2364565
Almost Anybody
Practice Squad
I think you guys should just cut through the BS, and call this a "hate Casserly" thread.
As a matter of fact, from now on, any thread where we sign any free agent, or draft any player, just call it "I hate Casserly, part ??"
You're not fooling anyone. And it's getting old.
As a matter of fact, from now on, any thread where we sign any free agent, or draft any player, just call it "I hate Casserly, part ??"
You're not fooling anyone. And it's getting old.
Almost Anybody
Practice Squad
Vinny said:
Yeah, I guess I will. And I think some of you need to "buckle up and get used" to the FACT, that in this NFL, if you want to sign a FA, then you're going to have to overpay . . or else that FA won't sign with you. Period.
You want them to go after FAs, but when they do . . you *****. Yup, sounds pretty ignorant to me.
tulexan
Hall of Fame
HoustonFrog said:This is espn.com as updated today. Maybe Charlie begged them to pump up the guy
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2364565
Maybe he actually is good.
Yeah, I get a good chuckle out of this. FA is a two-way street. The players have to want to come here and if they don't, you have to bait them here. if you don't want to pay the price, then sit out the market. And lord knows what kind of hell would break out on this board if the Texans sat out free agency because it was too pricey.Almost Anybody said:
swtbound07
Jackass of Day!
Almost Anybody said:
I said earlier i liked the jamel cook signing....but good lord, are we not as fans allowed to be outraged at the 32 MILLION dollars just spent to acquire anthony weaver and sage rosenfels? I hate casserly if he is going to do stuff like that. Be real now....show me where im supposed to be cheering these powerfull acquisitions. Yes, i want the texans to be active in free agency. Why??? because we are chock full of holes. No, i dont want to overpay for potential. We are doing that already, and his name is david carr.
ledzeppelin229
Hall of Fame
Coach C. said:
Wouldn't Charlie give him some sort of ceiling though on what should be spent? Or are the contracts completely in Ferens ballpark? Maybe we should just axe them both. Is the mob ready to be re-assembled?
Can someone explain to me the cap impact of this spent money? It seems to me that if he is signed for 5 years, 26 million with 12million guaranteed, it won't be too bad. 26-12= 14 million over 5 years, leaves us at a little under 3 million a year against the cap, right? So as long as we don't cut him, then increasing his guarnateed money to lighten our cap hit is actually a pretty decent move, right? Or are signing bonuses counted against the cap?
bATXle red
Noob
let's just be glad that after last season, any free agent wants to be in a texans uniform.
HoustonFrog
Dallas Frog
tulexan said:
Completely agree. My comment was a backhanded one because people said they didn't see much in the guy and the article actually talks highly of him. We will see like anyone we bring in here. Seems like a good person. I always worry about two things though 1)What is in Charlies head and 2)How much money spent. I am guessing this takes away the need for drafting Mario high..which disappoints me.
TexanBacker93
Veteran
Bongo59 said:
It's usually much cheaper to keep your own free agent than to bring in someone. You start asking families to uproot and the players will expect more. I realize it doesn't cost that much to move, but if you look at numbers each year those players that stay usually sign for a little bit less than they could have gotten elsewhere.
Did the Texans pay more than they might have? Probably. If someone can make a suggestion as to who they should have brought in to play strongside DE, I'm all ears.
TexanBacker93
Veteran
Texas said:
He missed one game in his first 3 years. He had a couple of nagging injuries that cost him games in his 4th (last) year. If Vinny corrects me when I call Payne injury prone, I must say I don't see Weaver as injury prone.
TexanBacker93
Veteran
Vinny said:
I would think if Kubiak thought it was worth bringing him in they would have contacted him. I trust a man who spent years working in the same organization as him. Maybe they called and he said he wanted a 5 year contract. I wouldn't give him anything more than 2.
TexanBacker93
Veteran
Bongo59 said:
I like Darren Howard, too. Maybe the Texans called him and he said he wasn't interested. Maybe he said it would take $20 million guaranteed. Maybe they just weren't interested in him. Nobody posting in this forum has any inside information. All we can do is speculate.
All I've heard for months is the Texans gotta have an end that can shake up the QB with hurries and sacks. So they sign a run stopper? What? I think Peek and Babins are going to do ok on the right side, but I can't believe none of you are going off like a rocket at this "terrible" pick up. All I've read so far on this board is "Anthony Weaver is above average." Again, What? McClain even said over the weekend, now that Weaver is on board, the Texans will not trade down for Mario Williams. What? Williams is compared to Julius Peppers as a sack getting monster and Weaver can't get to the QB. Oh, lordy, here we go.:brickwall
bdiddy
Waterboy
You need to stop the run first before you can even think about stopping the pass. The Texans run defense last year was horrible. Weaver will be a good run stopper at DE on first and second downs. He will shift to DT on passing situations with Robaire Smith going out. Peek and Babin will man the DE positions in passing situations.
Running Situations:
Weaver - TJ - Payne/Robaire - Babin/Peek (likely Babin)
Passing situations
Babin - Weaver - TJ - Peek
I think this a pretty nice addition, just because media hacks do not know much about football does not mean this will help bolster are defense. I think the (1) switching to a 4-3, and (2) signing Weaver immediately upgrades our run defense.
Running Situations:
Weaver - TJ - Payne/Robaire - Babin/Peek (likely Babin)
Passing situations
Babin - Weaver - TJ - Peek
I think this a pretty nice addition, just because media hacks do not know much about football does not mean this will help bolster are defense. I think the (1) switching to a 4-3, and (2) signing Weaver immediately upgrades our run defense.
bdiddy said:
It depends really. If you've got lots of speed on offense, and a big arm at QB, you can jump ahead of teams so fast, that they give up on the run by themselves...........
If only we had some speed at WR, and a QB with a big arm.........
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
bdiddy said:
Just to frame this properly. The Texans were 13th against the run in 2004. We led the league in holding opponents to 4 rushing TD's for the year. After 2004 we let go of Glenn and Sharper we added Greenwood, TJ and Buchanon (Wong was injured) and dropped to the worst. By no means am I making a correlation, but this team as a whole did not forget how to stop the run they most likely gave up on the staff and themselves.
U4ikrob
Guitar Junky
A bit pricey - but a decent signing. IMHO he will be a good "Quality" player for us, but maybe not the "Impact" player some folks wanted. I think the Texans are setting up there defense for the 4-3 so picked him up as good depth and a decent starter as they transition their defense into a 4-3.
IMO you cant fix every hole we have on this team this year. - Not gonna happen.
IMO the Texans are developign their core players again much like 5 years ago and are lookign to players they will be building around. Weaver loosk to be a solid DE to build around and got a good deal when the Market only hada few decent DE's available to us. We had the chance to shoot for a starter on another team in Weaver - and took a shot. I think the shot wasa bit high also like some others on the board here, but I also am thinking like other mentioned the FA price went up immediately when we hit the ground and when we started talking serious to him about offer's they knew we were ripe for the picking. We [the Texans] had little to nothing to bargain with except Money at this point as no good FA will want to come play here so were having to overpay and go for Hometown guys to try and pull at the intagibles to make a deal happen.
Bottom line - just getting decent players to talk to us about a deal at this point is a struggle and its only going to get harder. We have no cheerleader types on our team going and trying to recruit other young good players to our team like other more established teams do. Not to mention our record doesnt exactly inspire much confidence in the players we do have or those interested in our team. We just have to be strong in our approach - Disciplined in studying, make an offer and work wit hthe people to try and make something happen.
IMO you cant fix every hole we have on this team this year. - Not gonna happen.
IMO the Texans are developign their core players again much like 5 years ago and are lookign to players they will be building around. Weaver loosk to be a solid DE to build around and got a good deal when the Market only hada few decent DE's available to us. We had the chance to shoot for a starter on another team in Weaver - and took a shot. I think the shot wasa bit high also like some others on the board here, but I also am thinking like other mentioned the FA price went up immediately when we hit the ground and when we started talking serious to him about offer's they knew we were ripe for the picking. We [the Texans] had little to nothing to bargain with except Money at this point as no good FA will want to come play here so were having to overpay and go for Hometown guys to try and pull at the intagibles to make a deal happen.
Bottom line - just getting decent players to talk to us about a deal at this point is a struggle and its only going to get harder. We have no cheerleader types on our team going and trying to recruit other young good players to our team like other more established teams do. Not to mention our record doesnt exactly inspire much confidence in the players we do have or those interested in our team. We just have to be strong in our approach - Disciplined in studying, make an offer and work wit hthe people to try and make something happen.
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
Vinny said:
please keep us informed