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Davis Mills getting no respect

Veracity said:
Hello All,

I am new to this forum and joined because I was a Stanford season ticket holder when Davis Mills played for that school. My observation back then was that he had enough skill (s) to be a legitimate NFL QB. Specifically, I liked his throwing mechanics and accuracy. For the Texans I've watched him play a few games, and have seen his play in some highlight videos, but that's about it.
My guess is that most Texans fans would characterize his play this far as "up and down".
What has the new head coach said regarding Mills ?
Is it possible the Texans will use their upcoming 2023 top draft pick(s) on other positions and give Mills the 2023 season to show what he can do ?
Click to expand...

Texans drafted him in RD3 after he had a total of 22 amateur football starts since HS. Mills entered the draft b/c he had no guarantee that CA and Stanford were going to have full season of football with C-19 still on the scene.

Mills came to the Texans who were hands down one of the worst franchises in the NFL. Bad coaches, bad schemes, and an ugly draft/cap situation didn’t allow for much projected success. All common sense would’ve seen Mills sit and develop for at minimum a full season and maybe even a second season. Unfortunately, that didn’t happen b/c QB1 goes down in the second game and Mills is thrown into the game after taking no snaps in camp or Pre Season with the starting unit. His first season was really tough to watch as he appeared overwhelmed and was being asked to do far too much to soon. Then it looked like the game was slowing down for him and fans were getting to see the physical traits that had many analyst projecting him as a RD1 QB had he entered the 2022 NFL Draft instead of the 2021 draft. He finished on a high note giving fans a fair amount optimism about 2022.

2022 saw Mills meet with Nico Collins daily along with other receivers over the off season versus taking a break in preparation for the new season. As for the organization, they sent the coaching staff packing after one season and felt they made a big upgrade bring Lovie Smith and his new staff on board. The offense was as predictable as seasons before only this time they added a very heavy dose of conservatism. Thinking about it, predictable and conservative should never be uttered in the same sentence when describing an NFL offense. As for Mills, he lost Nico Collins, the receiver he worked with closely during the off season, for 7 games and then his veteran go to receiver, Cooks, up and quit on the team at the trade deadline. As for Mills, he looked as though a sophomore slump hit hard, was benched in favor of Kyle Allen and then returned after a few games to much of the same performances. He had his moments where you see the talent and had moments where the game looked like it was far too fast once again. It was a tough season with an overall team failure. Lovie was sent packing at season’s end along with many of his coaches.

Personally, I don’t think the team has given up on Mills. They did sign Case Keenum and I’m sure they’ll be adding a QB via the draft. Mills and the rookie should get some time behind Keenum before they ever take the field…..unless one of them beats Keenum out in Camp or the Pre Season games.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
Texans drafted him in RD3 after he had a total of 22 amateur football starts since HS. Mills entered the draft b/c he had no guarantee that CA and Stanford were going to have full season of football with C-19 still on the scene.

Mills came to the Texans who were hands down one of the worst franchises in the NFL. Bad coaches, bad schemes, and an ugly draft/cap situation didn’t allow for much projected success. All common sense would’ve seen Mills sit and develop for at minimum a full season and maybe even a second season. Unfortunately, that didn’t happen b/c QB1 goes down in the second game and Mills is thrown into the game after taking no snaps in camp or Pre Season with the starting unit. His first season was really tough to watch as he appeared overwhelmed and was being asked to do far too much to soon. Then it looked like the game was slowing down for him and fans were getting to see the physical traits that had many analyst projecting him as a RD1 QB had he entered the 2022 NFL Draft instead of the 2021 draft. He finished on a high note giving fans a fair amount optimism about 2022.

2022 saw Mills meet with Nico Collins daily along with other receivers over the off season versus taking a break in preparation for the new season. As for the organization, they sent the coaching staff packing after one season and felt they made a big upgrade bring Lovie Smith and his new staff on board. The offense was as predictable as seasons before only this time they added a very heavy dose of conservatism. Thinking about it, predictable and conservative should never be uttered in the same sentence when describing an NFL offense. As for Mills, he lost Nico Collins, the receiver he worked with closely during the off season, for 7 games and then his veteran go to receiver, Cooks, up and quit on the team at the trade deadline. As for Mills, he looked as though a sophomore slump hit hard, was benched in favor of Kyle Allen and then returned after a few games to much of the same performances. He had his moments where you see the talent and had moments where the game looked like it was far too fast once again. It was a tough season with an overall team failure. Lovie was sent packing at season’s end along with many of his coaches.

Personally, I don’t think the team has given up on Mills. They did sign Case Keenum and I’m sure they’ll be adding a QB via the draft. Mills and the rookie should get some time behind Keenum before they ever take the field…..unless one of them beats Keenum out in Camp or the Pre Season games.
Click to expand...

Thank you for the excellent synopsis. Given Mills relatively quick release and good accuracy I expect he could produce good results if the Texans adopt a rhythmic timing oriented passing game , similar to what the Dolphins offense was able to do for much of last season.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
Texans drafted him in RD3 after he had a total of 22 amateur football starts since HS. Mills entered the draft b/c he had no guarantee that CA and Stanford were going to have full season of football with C-19 still on the scene.

Mills came to the Texans who were hands down one of the worst franchises in the NFL. Bad coaches, bad schemes, and an ugly draft/cap situation didn’t allow for much projected success. All common sense would’ve seen Mills sit and develop for at minimum a full season and maybe even a second season. Unfortunately, that didn’t happen b/c QB1 goes down in the second game and Mills is thrown into the game after taking no snaps in camp or Pre Season with the starting unit. His first season was really tough to watch as he appeared overwhelmed and was being asked to do far too much to soon. Then it looked like the game was slowing down for him and fans were getting to see the physical traits that had many analyst projecting him as a RD1 QB had he entered the 2022 NFL Draft instead of the 2021 draft. He finished on a high note giving fans a fair amount optimism about 2022.

2022 saw Mills meet with Nico Collins daily along with other receivers over the off season versus taking a break in preparation for the new season. As for the organization, they sent the coaching staff packing after one season and felt they made a big upgrade bring Lovie Smith and his new staff on board. The offense was as predictable as seasons before only this time they added a very heavy dose of conservatism. Thinking about it, predictable and conservative should never be uttered in the same sentence when describing an NFL offense. As for Mills, he lost Nico Collins, the receiver he worked with closely during the off season, for 7 games and then his veteran go to receiver, Cooks, up and quit on the team at the trade deadline. As for Mills, he looked as though a sophomore slump hit hard, was benched in favor of Kyle Allen and then returned after a few games to much of the same performances. He had his moments where you see the talent and had moments where the game looked like it was far too fast once again. It was a tough season with an overall team failure. Lovie was sent packing at season’s end along with many of his coaches.

Personally, I don’t think the team has given up on Mills. They did sign Case Keenum and I’m sure they’ll be adding a QB via the draft. Mills and the rookie should get some time behind Keenum before they ever take the field…..unless one of them beats Keenum out in Camp or the Pre Season games.
Click to expand...
Thanks as I feel the same way.
 
Veracity said:
Hello All,

I am new to this forum and joined because I was a Stanford season ticket holder when Davis Mills played for that school. My observation back then was that he had enough skill (s) to be a legitimate NFL QB. Specifically, I liked his throwing mechanics and accuracy. For the Texans I've watched him play a few games, and have seen his play in some highlight videos, but that's about it.
My guess is that most Texans fans would characterize his play this far as "up and down".
What has the new head coach said regarding Mills ?
Is it possible the Texans will use their upcoming 2023 top draft pick(s) on other positions and give Mills the 2023 season to show what he can do ?
Click to expand...
Welcome to Texans talk.
Sure, we all know he was green coming out of college and he was thrown into the deep end from the get go.
And yes, our team was not conducive for quality play from a 3rd round pick.
Still, we have had a decent sample size from his play now and it is pretty obvious he needs a high quality team around him to produce at an acceptable level - iow, he can't take a team on his back and lead them to victory and that indicates he is just a JAG.
Unfortunately.
I had high hopes for him but alas, his ceiling is a sound backup - if he has a good team around him. He is not a franchise QB.
This brings us to the need for a guy that can lead us to the promised land.
CJ Stroud would be an upgrade, but his ceiling is lower than Bryce Young's, and we are all too aware of his limitations.
 
Texansphan said:
Welcome to Texans talk.
Sure, we all know he was green coming out of college and he was thrown into the deep end from the get go.
And yes, our team was not conducive for quality play from a 3rd round pick.
Still, we have had a decent sample size from his play now and it is pretty obvious he needs a high quality team around him to produce at an acceptable level - iow, he can't take a team on his back and lead them to victory and that indicates he is just a JAG.
Unfortunately.
I had high hopes for him but alas, his ceiling is a sound backup - if he has a good team around him. He is not a franchise QB.
This brings us to the need for a guy that can lead us to the promised land.
CJ Stroud would be an upgrade, but his ceiling is lower than Bryce Young's, and we are all too aware of his limitations.
Click to expand...

I question the goal of attaining "franchise QB".
Most football fans would probably agree that Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, and Rodgers are legitimate franchise QB's. That is 4 out 32 teams which have a franchise QB, or approximately 12% of the League.
Are other big names such as Prescott, Jackson, Watson, Wilson, Lawrence, Herbert, Stafford truly "franchise QB's" ? I don't think they are, and some of these teams are harmed by paying too much money towards the QB position.
It's probably a good idea for the Texans to use a high draft prick towards a QB, but maybe 2024 would be a better sense time to do that.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
Personally, I don’t think the team has given up on Mills. They did sign Case Keenum and I’m sure they’ll be adding a QB via the draft. Mills and the rookie should get some time behind Keenum before they ever take the field…..unless one of them beats Keenum out in Camp or the Pre Season games.
Click to expand...
I think they would pull the trigger on Stroud if he makes it to 1.2

Other than that, I think they'll run with Mills.
 
Veracity said:
I question the goal of attaining "franchise QB".
Most football fans would probably agree that Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, and Rodgers are legitimate franchise QB's. That is 4 out 32 teams which have a franchise QB, or approximately 12% of the League.
Are other big names such as Prescott, Jackson, Watson, Wilson, Lawrence, Herbert, Stafford truly "franchise QB's" ? I don't think they are, and some of these teams are harmed by paying too much money towards the QB position.
It's probably a good idea for the Texans to use a high draft prick towards a QB, but maybe 2024 would be a better sense time to do that.
Click to expand...
Lawrence, Herbert and Stafford are franchise QBs. I can think of others - recently retired TB and Drew Brees are easy and I would add Prescott and Hurts to the list as well.
How many non franchise QBs have won a SB in the last 20 years?
 
Texansphan said:
Lawrence, Herbert and Stafford are franchise QBs. I can think of others - recently retired TB and Drew Brees are easy and I would add Prescott and Hurts to the list as well.
How many non franchise QBs have won a SB in the last 20 years?
Click to expand...
Brad Johnson
Joe Flacco
Nick Foles

* the past 20 years is a bit skewed because during that time Brady led is team(s) to 6 SuperBowl wins.
If one looks at the past 20 years of losing SuperBowl QB's it's filled with guys who were not considered "franchise QB's" :
Gannon
DelHomme
McNabb
Hasselbeck
Grossman
Warner
Kaepernick
Newton
Ryan
Goff
Garappolo
 
Veracity said:
Brad Johnson
Joe Flacco
Nick Foles

* the past 20 years is a bit skewed because during that time Brady led is team(s) to 6 SuperBowl wins.
If one looks at the past 20 years of losing SuperBowl QB's it's filled with guys who were not considered "franchise QB's" :
Gannon
DelHomme
McNabb
Hasselbeck
Grossman
Warner
Kaepernick
Newton
Ryan
Goff
Garappolo
Click to expand...


McNabb, Warner, Newton, and Ryan were all considered franchise qb's for a stretch.
 
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Veracity said:
Brad Johnson
Joe Flacco
Nick Foles

* the past 20 years is a bit skewed because during that time Brady led is team(s) to 6 SuperBowl wins.
If one looks at the past 20 years of losing SuperBowl QB's it's filled with guys who were not considered "franchise QB's" :
Gannon
DelHomme
McNabb
Hasselbeck
Grossman
Warner
Kaepernick
Newton
Ryan
Goff
Garappolo
Click to expand...
Just because a QB is a franchise's QB does not mean they are a Franchise QB
 
powda said:
McNabb, Warner, Newton, and Ryan were all considered franchise qb's for a stretch.
Click to expand...
I guess it depends on how one defines franchise QB. My point is that football is a team game and I believe too often QB's become over hyped and, or overrated. If the Texans have a consistently good defense, good OL play, excellent game strategy and play calling, I believe Mills or Winston could lead the team to the playoffs.
 
Xopher said:
Just because a QB is a franchise's QB does not mean they are a Franchise QB
Click to expand...
Yes, it just seems that each year approximately 75% of the League's teams (or at least their fans) are wanting a "Franchise QB". Each draft it seems at least three QB's are taken in the first round and it is predicted this or that rookie will be a Franchise QB, but that rarely proves to be true.
I know the QB position is especially important, and I understand that League rules result in relatively small dollar 4 year rookie contracts, so it does make sense that teams take shots on QB's with their first round picks. But another way of looking at it is that often times those first round picks could have been better used taking a different position player.
 
Veracity said:
I guess it depends on how one defines franchise QB. My point is that football is a team game and I believe too often QB's become over hyped and, or overrated. If the Texans have a consistently good defense, good OL play, excellent game strategy and play calling, I believe Mills or Winston could lead the team to the playoffs.
Click to expand...
What's your definition of a franchise QB?
 
I really dont disagree with you fundamentally. All the elements you listed:

Veracity said:
...a consistently good defense, good OL play, excellent game strategy and play calling...
Click to expand...

Will make an average qb look good. Trouble is, any really good team will be canobolized by the rest of the NFL. Those ol players, that defense, the coaches, etc, will move on for more money over time.

If you target and land that great qb, you have to secure one piece instead of a dozen. Essentially, your window of opportunity should be 3-5 years instead of 1-2.

Jmo. Good conversation.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
Texans drafted him in RD3 after he had a total of 22 amateur football starts since HS. Mills entered the draft b/c he had no guarantee that CA and Stanford were going to have full season of football with C-19 still on the scene.

Mills came to the Texans who were hands down one of the worst franchises in the NFL. Bad coaches, bad schemes, and an ugly draft/cap situation didn’t allow for much projected success. All common sense would’ve seen Mills sit and develop for at minimum a full season and maybe even a second season. Unfortunately, that didn’t happen b/c QB1 goes down in the second game and Mills is thrown into the game after taking no snaps in camp or Pre Season with the starting unit. His first season was really tough to watch as he appeared overwhelmed and was being asked to do far too much to soon. Then it looked like the game was slowing down for him and fans were getting to see the physical traits that had many analyst projecting him as a RD1 QB had he entered the 2022 NFL Draft instead of the 2021 draft. He finished on a high note giving fans a fair amount optimism about 2022.

2022 saw Mills meet with Nico Collins daily along with other receivers over the off season versus taking a break in preparation for the new season. As for the organization, they sent the coaching staff packing after one season and felt they made a big upgrade bring Lovie Smith and his new staff on board. The offense was as predictable as seasons before only this time they added a very heavy dose of conservatism. Thinking about it, predictable and conservative should never be uttered in the same sentence when describing an NFL offense. As for Mills, he lost Nico Collins, the receiver he worked with closely during the off season, for 7 games and then his veteran go to receiver, Cooks, up and quit on the team at the trade deadline. As for Mills, he looked as though a sophomore slump hit hard, was benched in favor of Kyle Allen and then returned after a few games to much of the same performances. He had his moments where you see the talent and had moments where the game looked like it was far too fast once again. It was a tough season with an overall team failure. Lovie was sent packing at season’s end along with many of his coaches.

Personally, I don’t think the team has given up on Mills. They did sign Case Keenum and I’m sure they’ll be adding a QB via the draft. Mills and the rookie should get some time behind Keenum before they ever take the field…..unless one of them beats Keenum out in Camp or the Pre Season games.
Click to expand...
Well said OT👍
 
Veracity said:
I guess it depends on how one defines franchise QB. My point is that football is a team game and I believe too often QB's become over hyped and, or overrated. If the Texans have a consistently good defense, good OL play, excellent game strategy and play calling, I believe Mills or Winston could lead the team to the playoffs.
Click to expand...

What makes franchise QBs NOT overhyped is their consistent ability to overcome or mask the weakness of the other 52. A team usually only has a couple of years where everything around the QB is as you described it.

And yes finding a really good to a true franchise guy is hard, but building and maintaining a team of excellence is harder.
 
JB said:
What's your definition of a franchise QB?
Click to expand...

As I wrote earlier, most fans would agree that Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, and Rodgers are legitimate current franchise QB's, and I agree with that.
For different criteria those 4 players have earned the right to be called a Franchise QB. Stafford probably belongs on that list as well.
Some big names such as Prescott, Jackson, Watson, Wilson, Lawrence, Herbert, Carr are often labeled "Franchise QB" but I am not sure they've done enough to earn that title.
 
Veracity said:
As I wrote earlier, most fans would agree that Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, and Rodgers are legitimate current franchise QB's, and I agree with that.
For different criteria those 4 players have earned the right to be called a Franchise QB. Stafford probably belongs on that list as well.
Some big names such as Prescott, Jackson, Watson, Wilson, Lawrence, Herbert, Carr are often labeled "Franchise QB" but I am not sure they've done enough to earn that title.
Click to expand...
You still didn't say what your definition is...
 
Veracity said:
I guess it depends on how one defines franchise QB. My point is that football is a team game and I believe too often QB's become over hyped and, or overrated. If the Texans have a consistently good defense, good OL play, excellent game strategy and play calling, I believe Mills or Winston could lead the team to the playoffs.
Click to expand...
I don't care about "Franchised QB" all that much.
My thinking is that when you have a chance to draft a guy that you think (as GM/HC/OC combined) will have a good chance to be a top ten QB, you do it.

I don't think it's realistic for a team to wait and wait until it can draft a "franchise QB".

But the QB you draft, or sign in FA, should come with good possibilities.

I disagree with the GM's decision to draft a project QB like Mills in the third round, though I did say that Mills deserved the third round status.
That's really a compliment for a guy who did not see much time in college.

I'm pretty keen on Stanford's QBs, especially since Andrew Luck.

I'm very familiar with the WCO offense that they run for the longest time, since Bill Walsh.

The QB doesn't need to have the strongest arm.
He needs to be accurate, with a catchable ball; things that Mills never showed to have.

He rated out as the QB with the most bad throws in 2022.

That's the worse thing you can have in the WCO.

On top of that, Mills does not have any special trait.

At the NFL level, if I'm aspired to win the Lombardi trophy, I would not choose to have Mills as my QB.

He's not a bad QB; I just don't see how he can get to be top ten in the league.
 
76Texan said:
I don't care about "Franchised QB" all that much.
My thinking is that when you have a chance to draft a guy that you think (as GM/HC/OC combined) will have a good chance to be a top ten QB, you do it.

I don't think it's realistic for a team to wait and wait until it can draft a "franchise QB".

But the QB you draft, or sign in FA, should come with good possibilities.

I disagree with the GM's decision to draft a project QB like Mills in the third round, though I did say that Mills deserved the third round status.
That's really a compliment for a guy who did not see much time in college.

I'm pretty keen on Stanford's QBs, especially since Andrew Luck.

I'm very familiar with the WCO offense that they run for the longest time, since Bill Walsh.

The QB doesn't need to have the strongest arm.
He needs to be accurate, with a catchable ball; things that Mills never showed to have.

He rated out as the QB with the most bad throws in 2022.

That's the worse thing you can have in the WCO.

On top of that, Mills does not have any special trait.

At the NFL level, if I'm aspired to win the Lombardi trophy, I would not choose to have Mills as my QB.

He's not a bad QB; I just don't see how he can get to be top ten in the league.
Click to expand...


I liked drafting mills. Considering the times, he was a hedge against the dw drama. Maybe he was the wrong qb but we needed to draft a qb. It was a positional move and leverage. I thought it was a strong move then and still do.
 
powda said:
I liked drafting mills. Considering the times, he was a hedge against the dw drama. Maybe he was the wrong qb but we needed to draft a qb. It was a positional move and leverage. I thought it was a strong move then and still do.
Click to expand...

It was a good move at the time, and still is. Doesn't mean Mills will ever be anything more than a dependable backup, but that's fine. All teams need a decent backup QB or two.
 
Veracity said:
Yes, it just seems that each year approximately 75% of the League's teams (or at least their fans) are wanting a "Franchise QB". Each draft it seems at least three QB's are taken in the first round and it is predicted this or that rookie will be a Franchise QB, but that rarely proves to be true.
I know the QB position is especially important, and I understand that League rules result in relatively small dollar 4 year rookie contracts, so it does make sense that teams take shots on QB's with their first round picks. But another way of looking at it is that often times those first round picks could have been better used taking a different position player.
Click to expand...

Sure, if you think for some reason those different position players have any less chance of busting..
 
Veracity said:
But another way of looking at it is that often times those first round picks could have been better used taking a different position player.
Click to expand...

Good point. If every few years you’re spending a high pick on a QB that doesn’t work out, you’re compounding the error by not having drafted other positions of need, which makes the team even worse. On the flip side, the teams that do have their “franchise QB’s” can continue to build their teams by picking positional players of need. Although they’re not getting top 10 picks they’re not wasting them on the much more unpredictable QB position. In reality their lower first rounders end up being higher quality picks more often than not. It’s a puzzle that can be solved many ways.
 
Mollywhopper said:
Sure, if you think for some reason those different position players have any less chance of busting..
Click to expand...
Good point. For some odd reason I think QB is harder to predict than others. I may be wrong. Plus a QB is generally only a QB. Whereas if you miss on a tackle, he may be a serviceable guard.
 
Bluehen Texan said:
Good point. For some odd reason I think QB is harder to predict than others. I may be wrong. Plus a QB is generally only a QB. Whereas if you miss on a tackle, he may be a serviceable guard.
Click to expand...

For me, it's hard to get past the fact that when I was growing up and for a good chunk of my adult life, drafting a QB in the first round meant two years of suckage while the guy developed. IF he developed, because most of the time he didn't. So you had to give him that third year to at least see if you had something and maybe a fourth and fifth year.

It wasn't until Roethlisberger and how Whisenhunt tailored the offense to him as a rookie that a rookie QB was really successful. Nowadays, more and more rookie QBs are coming in and playing fairly well.

So my natural inclination is to not draft a QB. But sometimes you've just got to bite the bullet and take your shot.

If you draft a guy high at any position, the FO pushes giving that guy as many chances as possible to try to make the investment work but other positions bust, too. Especially DL, I think. But QBs usually get even more time and more chances.
 
The Pencil Neck said:
For me, it's hard to get past the fact that when I was growing up and for a good chunk of my adult life, drafting a QB in the first round meant two years of suckage while the guy developed. IF he developed, because most of the time he didn't. So you had to give him that third year to at least see if you had something and maybe a fourth and fifth year.

It wasn't until Roethlisberger and how Whisenhunt tailored the offense to him as a rookie that a rookie QB was really successful. Nowadays, more and more rookie QBs are coming in and playing fairly well.

So my natural inclination is to not draft a QB. But sometimes you've just got to bite the bullet and take your shot.

If you draft a guy high at any position, the FO pushes giving that guy as many chances as possible to try to make the investment work but other positions bust, too. Especially DL, I think. But QBs usually get even more time and more chances.
Click to expand...
The old way of forcing QBs to play solely to the vision of the head coach are going the way of the dinosaur - unless the QB can fit into that particular system.
Nowadays the coach will tend to mold his offense to better suit the abilities of his QB - if he wants to give his team the best chance to win.
It does seem that there are more pro style offenses in the NCAAF these days that prepares them for the pros also, which explains why more QBs are having success in the pros.
The WCO has gained a lot of popularity among NFL coaches as it is apparently the easiest one for the youngsters to assimilate.
It all boils down to the NFL teams getting smarter - the almighty dollar rules and the QB is usually the face of the franchise and the fulcrum of the offense.
 
Texansphan said:
The old way of forcing QBs to play solely to the vision of the head coach are going the way of the dinosaur - unless the QB can fit into that particular system.
Nowadays the coach will tend to mold his offense to better suit the abilities of his QB - if he wants to give his team the best chance to win.
It does seem that there are more pro style offenses in the NCAAF these days that prepares them for the pros also, which explains why more QBs are having success in the pros.
The WCO has gained a lot of popularity among NFL coaches as it is apparently the easiest one for the youngsters to assimilate.
It all boils down to the NFL teams getting smarter - the almighty dollar rules and the QB is usually the face of the franchise and the fulcrum of the offense.
Click to expand...

I believe Andy Reid deserves the most credit for showing other coaches the benefit of modifying his offense to the skill-set of his QB. Mahomes was coming out of an Air Raid offense and up until him, every QB out of that “so called” gimmicky offense had failed at being molded into a traditional NFL QB.
 
Last edited:
OptimisticTexan said:
I believe Andy Reid deserves the most credit for showing other coaches the benefit of modifying his offense to the skill-set of his QB. Mahomes was coming out of an Air Raid offense and up until him, every QB out of that “so called” gimmicky offense
Click to expand...
One of the things that really stands out for me about Mahomes is his football intelligence. He not only has an amazing grasp of offenses, I think his knowledge and recognition skills of what defenses are trying to do to him is even more impressive.
 
Actually is was the Panthers who ran an offense to fit Cam Newton in his rookie. That year Cam won ROY and the team went 6-10. He threw over 4000 yards, 21 touchdowns and 17 interceptions. He also rushed for over 700 yards with 14 touchdowns.
 
Texansphan said:
One of the things that really stands out for me about Mahomes is his football intelligence. He not only has an amazing grasp of offenses, I think his knowledge and recognition skills of what defenses are trying to do to him is even more impressive.
Click to expand...
And this precisely the same reason why I like Young - in spite of the concerns about his durability. It's going to be in the hands of the coaching staff to scheme the offense to minimize these concerns. Then just let Young play his game and run the offense.
 
Number19 said:
And this precisely the same reason why I like Young - in spite of the concerns about his durability. It's going to be in the hands of the coaching staff to scheme the offense to minimize these concerns. Then just let Young play his game and run the offense.
Click to expand...
I have warmed to Young. It has been a toss up between him and Stroud for me but Young has his nose in front. I would be happy with either of them.
He also has the ability to move defenses with his eyes and is very cool under pressure and has excellent escapabilty when pressure comes.
His accuracy is pretty good as well.
 
Texansballer74 said:
Actually is was the Panthers who ran an offense to fit Cam Newton in his rookie. That year Cam won ROY and the team went 6-10. He threw over 4000 yards, 21 touchdowns and 17 interceptions. He also rushed for over 700 yards with 14 touchdowns.
Click to expand...

That was 2011. And it was amazing. I still remember it. I expected him to suck. He sucked in the preseason. Then his first regular season game, I think he threw for over 400 yards his first two games. Amazing.

Roethlisberger was before that (2004) and was more successful, at least record-wise. He went 15-1 as a starter as a rookie, only losing to Tom Brady and the Patriots in the Conference Championship game. Sure, he didn't put up as gaudy numbers, but they were able to put him in positions to let the team win.

To me, that was the turning point of being able to mold an offense to fit a rookie QBs tools and knowledge and ability.
 
AcresHomesTexan said:
What makes franchise QBs NOT overhyped is their consistent ability to overcome or mask the weakness of the other 52. A team usually only has a couple of years where everything around the QB is as you described it.

And yes finding a really good to a true franchise guy is hard, but building and maintaining a team of excellence is harder.
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I remember back to the beginning of Tom Brady's career. That dude had nothing we'd consider necessary to be considered a franchise QB. Except that clutch gene. He wasn't particularly athletic, he wasn't a gifted thrower, he didn't have a plus arm... but when he was needed to make a play, he made the play.

The team around him wasn't exuding talent. It was mostly cast offs from other teams that found a home. But Belichick & his coaches found a way to make it work. & consistently had the team in position to win.

Tom Brady eventually became that guy. I'm thinking the first two Super Bowls was mostly Belichick & the others mostly Brady. But Brady wouldn't have became Brady if Belichick didn't mask the weakness of the 52, giving Brady the time to develop into the guy that went on to Tampa Bay.
 
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Texansballer74 said:
Different strokes for different folks. Meaning what happened with Tom Brady might not work for other quarterbacks.
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agree 100% & wasn't implying otherwise.

I completely agree with @AcresHomesTexan though. Regardless what happens in the draft, the Texans need to build a better team than they've ever built in the past. That may start with a QB. That QB may fail. But the team has to get better regardless. We've got 101 reasons why the next QB of the Houston Texans will fail. Those reasons need to disappear whether he fails or not.

FYI, the Chargers still have 99 reasons that QB is going too fail.
 
76Texan said:
chance to draft a guy that you think (as GM/HC/OC combined) will have a good chance to be a top ten QB, you do it.

I don't think it's realistic for a team to wait and wait until it can draft a "franchise QB".
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thunderkyss said:
but when he was needed to make a play, he made the play.
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I wasn't asked directly, but imho both of the items quoted = 'Franchise QB'.

If your quarterback is consistently in the top 10 (lands in the top five every now and then), keeps the team on schedule and when you need him to make a play he can e.g. 'wins' in a two-minute or game-winning drive more than he loses, then folks you have a franchise QB.

If you can't build a team that consistently wins and competes for the Superbowl with that guy then the QB isn't the problem.

If you're waiting for a 'generational' QB thinking it's the only path to a championship - it's going to be a LONG wait.
 
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