David Carr's on the right track...

[TexansLucky13]

By whose standards? Dude is easily one of the top three QBs in the NFL right now.

He get's paid so much that the team suffers. Talk about a salary cap hit.... they might have been able to hold onto Edge if not for his thick wallet. I just think no one person is worth that much. The Colts will never take a SB win because of him. That's just my personal view of that situation, and I have met many people who see it the same way. (Other than the fact that we all hate the horseshoes)

 

[TexanFan881]

He get's paid so much that the team suffers. Talk about a salary cap hit.... they might have been able to hold onto Edge if not for his thick wallet. I just think no one person is worth that much. The Colts will never take a SB win because of him.

I agree with you. Sure he's a great QB but you need to have more than one great player on your team in order to be successful. Cutting Edge like you said would have been able to be done if Manning's contract wasn't so huge. They have good recievers I'm sure if they got an average QB he would be able to play at an above average level (definately not as much as Peyton though) and they could have had a running game this year. Now they're in a hole at RB because they only have Dominick Rhodes and Joseph Addai. They have a lot of players on defense last year that performed well but was it because of the offense? They need to spend some money on that D if they want to win a Super Bowl.

 

[Double Barrel]

He get's paid so much that the team suffers. Talk about a salary cap hit.... they might have been able to hold onto Edge if not for his thick wallet. I just think no one person is worth that much. The Colts will never take a SB win because of him. That's just my personal view of that situation, and I have met many people who see it the same way. (Other than the fact that we all hate the horseshoes)

I see where you're coming from now, and I can certainly understand that pov. It is definitely a valid point to be made.

But "worth" is in the eyes of the beholder, and if the Colts FO thinks he's worth it, then I guess he's worth it. However, that's a good thing for us! Anything that weakens a division rival - like Manning's salary preventing them from signing other quality players - is help we can use.

 

[TexansLucky13]

Anything that weakens a division rival - like Manning's salary preventing them from signing other quality players - is help we can use.

Agreed! I won't mention anything to Dungy if you don't.

 

[thunderkyss]

Ok, you said nothing about any RB making the playoffs or being on a bad team, you asked me which running backs rushed for over 1000 yards for multiple seasons and I posted those. Then you try to add passing stats in. You said nothing about passing stats. Good lord, you ask for one thing, I give it to you, and then you try to turn it around to help your argument. Fact is, the Texans as a team ranked 15th in the NFL last season, so our running game as a whole wasn't that bad. And my point of all this is not to try and portray Carr "as a God", it's to show that other players like AJ on the team have underperformed in the past but the only threads you see on here are Carr threads, why is he the only one criticized like he is? Just because he is our QB?

when you click on "new Posts", you get 25 threads, with the latest posts in those threads....... only two of those have anything to do with Carr. We have ragged on everyplayer on this team, from Milford Brown, who'll be starting for Arizona, to Gaffney, who'll probably start for Philly, to Coleman, who'll probably start for Dallas.... We've got a lot of good players on our team, and we've let a bunch of good players go(sharper, glenn)...... because they all sucked........ but Carr......... poor coaching, bad Oline.......

David has not played as well as he should these last couple of years..... I'm glad that at least Kubiak can see that, and is doing something about it.

Now........ you started ragging on DD. "it's no big deal to rush for 1000 yards........ a bunch of other players are doing it."

So to clarify........ so that no one else buys the garbage you're selling. I threw out some qualifications... IT IS A BIG DEAL THAT DD RUSHED FOR 1000 YARDS HIS FIRST TWO SEASONS, AND DARN NEAR A THIRD.........

Because there aren't many guys who have done it, again, again, and again. Then, as I've pointed out, all those guys that have done it, in 2005, only one guy did it when he was on a team with a poor passing attack. ony one. & Yes, if a guy is running for 1000 yards a season, and he has no passing attack to balance the running game, he IS a badass.


& yes........ you act as if David has done no wrong.

 

[thunderkyss]

He get's paid so much that the team suffers. Talk about a salary cap hit.... they might have been able to hold onto Edge if not for his thick wallet. I just think no one person is worth that much. The Colts will never take a SB win because of him. That's just my personal view of that situation, and I have met many people who see it the same way. (Other than the fact that we all hate the horseshoes)

Interesting....... let's see what happens when they finally do loose Reggie Wayne, and Edgerin James..... I seriously doubt they'll miss a beat..... don't forget this is a team that cut Marshall Faulk...... the best blah blah blah in the last 10 years........... other than Reggie Bush.

QBs like Manning make Reggie Waynes, and Edgerin James'.....

& there isn't a QB in the league who manages an offense the way Manning does....... he is the offensive co-ordinator. & that is why they'll never win the big one.......

During the regular season, Manning should be allowed to do what he does..... but come play-off time, Manning needs to be the QB, and Dungy should be the coach.

 

[TexansLucky13]

During the regular season, Manning should be allowed to do what he does..... but come play-off time, Manning needs to be the QB, and Dungy should be the coach.

I understand your point of view in this case, but I don't agree 100% with that last statement. I think they rely on him too much, and that is why they fail. Dungy is an intelligent man, and should be the leader of the horseshoes from the first game to their final playoff match.

I agree that Manning had a lot to do with the talent that Edge has. But I don't believe that that makes any excuses. If Peyton keeps creating playmakers and letting them get cut... how backwards is that?

 

[GP]

when you click on "new Posts", you get 25 threads, with the latest posts in those threads....... only two of those have anything to do with Carr. We have ragged on everyplayer on this team, from Milford Brown, who'll be starting for Arizona, to Gaffney, who'll probably start for Philly, to Coleman, who'll probably start for Dallas.... We've got a lot of good players on our team, and we've let a bunch of good players go(sharper, glenn)...... because they all sucked........ but Carr......... poor coaching, bad Oline.......

David has not played as well as he should these last couple of years..... I'm glad that at least Kubiak can see that, and is doing something about it.

Now........ you started ragging on DD. "it's no big deal to rush for 1000 yards........ a bunch of other players are doing it."

So to clarify........ so that no one else buys the garbage you're selling. I threw out some qualifications...IT IS A BIG DEAL THAT DD RUSHED FOR 1000 YARDS HIS FIRST TWO SEASONS, AND DARN NEAR A THIRD.........

Because there aren't many guys who have done it, again, again, and again. Then, as I've pointed out, all those guys that have done it, in 2005, only one guy did it when he was on a team with a poor passing attack. ony one. & Yes, if a guy is running for 1000 yards a season, and he has no passing attack to balance the running game, he IS a badass.


& yes........ you act as if David has done no wrong.

You state (above) that "...David has not played as well as he should these last couple of years..... I'm glad that at least Kubiak can see that, and is doing something about it..."

WE ALL SEE THAT CARR DID NOT PLAY WELL.

In fact, Carr saw that Carr did not play well. he saw it from his back as he got sacked every other pass play, laying there on the turf looking up at the jumbotron replay system.

Congratulations, Thunderkyss...you are quick enough to see that Carr did not play well. Now, move on to accepting the idea and concept that Kubiak feels pretty certain that Carr had his talent squandered. It's time to stop the bashing, and just move on. And that means not just supporting Kubiak, as it seems you are doing, but it also means supporting the guy who Kubiak supports.

But for you to sit there and just rub his face in it, over and over and over and over and over, is just beyond me. I'm not saying he played great, but I AM saying that he has the confidence of Kubiak who could have verrrry easily signed off on Carr's death certificate if he wanted to. No, it became verrrry clear to the powers-that-be that the problem was in the coaching style and the subsequent playcalling that completely squandered our QBs talent.

Yes, Carr himself did not play as well as he should have. But that's not completely a true reflection of the star quality and potential that's there.

So I'll toss this out at you: Do you or do you not support our QB, and are you in any way whatsoever holding a secret desire to see him fail?

Just answer that question, and let's stop going around this Carr mountain so we can invent another player on our team to drub for 100 or more posts, OK?

 

[Hulk75]

I tend to judge a guy with my eyeballs...not some stat line. He hasn't played well no matter how you slice it if you just honestly watch the games. Stats are for baseball.

I have seen you drop some crazy stats on here, that I never heard about.

 

[texan279]

I have seen you drop some crazy stats on here, that I never heard about.

Yeah, something like Carr never throwing for more than 200 yards and 2 TD's in a win is the one I remember...

 

[TexansLucky13]

WE ALL SEE THAT CARR DID NOT PLAY WELL.

Please do not include "me" in that "we". Refer to my longest post in this section please.

 

[texan279]

Now........ you started ragging on DD. "it's no big deal to rush for 1000 yards........ a bunch of other players are doing it."

So to clarify........ so that no one else buys the garbage you're selling. I threw out some qualifications... IT IS A BIG DEAL THAT DD RUSHED FOR 1000 YARDS HIS FIRST TWO SEASONS, AND DARN NEAR A THIRD.........

Because there aren't many guys who have done it, again, again, and again. Then, as I've pointed out, all those guys that have done it, in 2005, only one guy did it when he was on a team with a poor passing attack. ony one. & Yes, if a guy is running for 1000 yards a season, and he has no passing attack to balance the running game, he IS a badass.


& yes........ you act as if David has done no wrong.

I did not rag on DD, I just said he was a good, not great back. You ask me to name the RB's who have rushed for more than 1000 yards more than once, so I do that for the last 2 seasons, then you come back with this "well look how many were on teams with bad passing games, only DD and so and so" then you go on about guys who were on teams that went to the playoffs.

Shaun Alexander - 1 season over 1100 yards, 2 seasons over 1300 yards, 3 seasons over 1400 yards rushing

Tiki Barber - 3 seasons over 1000 yards, 2 seasons over 1500 yards rushing

Clinton Portis - 1 season over 1300 yards, 3 seasons over 1500 yards rushing

Edge James - 1 season over 1200 yards, 3 seasons over 1500 yarsd, 1 season over 1700 yards rushing

LaDanian Tomlinson - 3 seasons over 1200 yards, 2 seasons over 1600 yards rushing

Warrick Dunn - 3 seasons over 1000 yards rushing, 1 season over 1400 yards rushing

Willis McGahee - 2 seasons over 1100 yards rushing

Rueben Droughns - 2 seasons over 1200 yards rushing

Jamal Lewis - 1 season over 1000 yards, 2 seasons over 1300 yards, one season over 2000 yards rushing

Fred Taylor - 4 seasons over 1200 yards, 1 season over 1500 yards rushing

Mike Anderson - 2 seasons over 1000 yards rushing

Curtis Martin - 10 consecutive seasons with over 1000 yards rushing

Priest Holmes - 1 seasons over 1000 yards, 3 seasons over 1400 yards rushing

Ahman Green - 5 straight seasons with over 1100 yards rushing

Stephen Davis - 4 seasons over 1300 yards rushing

Deuce McAllister - 3 seasons over 1000 yards rushing

Marshall Faulk - 7 seasons over 1000 yards rushing

DD - 1 season over 1000 yards, 1 season over 1100 yards

Out of the RB's I listed, 13 of them have rushed for over 1000 yards more than 4 times. And FYI, the season that Jamal Lewis rushed for over 2000 yards, Baltimore had the WORST passing offense in the NFL and when Curtis Martin rushed for over 1600 yards in 2004, the Jets passing offense was ranked 27th in the NFL, so there goes that no passing attack theory out the window. And no, I do not act as if Carr "has done no wrong", I just do not understand all of the posts and criticism about Carr only around here when there are other players on the team making big bucks and underperforming. And if you think I am ragging on DD, sorry, I'm not, he's a good running back, not a great running back.

 

[TexansLucky13]

And FYI, the season that Jamal Lewis rushed for over 2000 yards, Baltimore had the WORST passing offense in the NFL and when Curtis Martin rushed for over 1600 yards in 2004, the Jets passing offense was ranked 27th in the NFL, so there goes that no passing attack theory out the window.

I was waiting for someone to mention that. I understand that having the option to pass makes the defense more honest, but still.... if you can't pass.... you run. I do agree with thunderkyss, though, that DD has done some awesome stuff.

So, thank you texan279 for the informative stats. I can understand how a guy like Lewis can rack up so many yards when you think about their passing game (or lack thereof).

 

[thunderkyss]

WE ALL SEE THAT CARR DID NOT PLAY WELL.

In fact, Carr saw that Carr did not play well. he saw it from his back as he got sacked every other pass play, laying there on the turf looking up at the jumbotron replay system.

Congratulations, Thunderkyss...you are quick enough to see that Carr did not play well. Now, move on to accepting the idea and concept that Kubiak feels pretty certain that Carr had his talent squandered. It's time to stop the bashing, and just move on. And that means not just supporting Kubiak, as it seems you are doing, but it also means supporting the guy who Kubiak supports.

I actually don't know what we've been arguing for the last 6 pages.....

I'm saying Carr played badly....... and it seems my other opponents are saying "yeah he played badly, but he'll get better next year"

Which he very well might...... I've gone on record in the past, saying that it is just as likely that we'll be looking for a franchise quarterback in two years. Who knows..... we'll have to wait and see.

As for me, and who I support....... I honestly believe this team can go 13-3... and that's what I'm rooting for.

Out of the RB's I listed, 13 of them have rushed for over 1000 yards more than 4 times. And FYI, the season that Jamal Lewis rushed for over 2000 yards, Baltimore had the WORST passing offense in the NFL and when Curtis Martin rushed for over 1600 yards in 2004, the Jets passing offense was ranked 27th in the NFL, so there goes that no passing attack theory out the window. And no, I do not act as if Carr "has done no wrong", I just do not understand all of the posts and criticism about Carr only around here when there are other players on the team making big bucks and underperforming. And if you think I am ragging on DD, sorry, I'm not, he's a good running back, not a great running back.

out of the RBs you mentioned, which ones are good, but not great??

You're prooving my point for me.... Jamal Lewis is a great back..... To prove that I am wrong, and that it's no big deal to rush for 1000 yards, you have to start naming scrubbs who are rushing for 1000 yards.... & you've got to admit a guy with a 4000 yard passing offense has a bit of an advantage to a guy with a 2600 yard passing offense.

Curtis Martin will be in the Hall of Fame, Jamal's 2000 yard season will be talked about forever...

I don't see your point.

 

[Runner]

So I'll toss this out at you: Do you or do you not support our QB, and are you in any way whatsoever holding a secret desire to see him fail?

The following comment is more general than just this thread. No offense intended to recent posters on this thread.

I've noticed that there are quite a few players - beyond Carr - on the team that have their own base of anti-fans. I think that many of these fans also harbor a desire to see their own particular whipping boy fail. I guess that is human nature. Some have made up their minds about certain players and refuse to change it based on new information no matter what. I saw one person state something like "I'll always think player x is a bust no matter what. I don't care what he does from here on out". This about a player who has played 20-30 plays in his short career.

As I've said before, apparently it is easier to take new information and spin it to fit a certain viewpoint than it is to think about what is going on as things change (like coaching) and perhaps go so far as admit an error in evaluating a player.

If I was wrong sticks in a persons throat, I suggest they try mea culpa to hide the meaning a little. I'll start:

The new coaches apparently think McKinney can contribute as a starting guard. I could never get past his performance at center in recent years. It looks like these coaches will build a better o-line with pieces we already have that I didn't think were very good. Mea culpa.

 

[texan279]

I actually don't know what we've been arguing for the last 6 pages.....

I'm saying Carr played badly....... and it seems my other opponents are saying "yeah he played badly, but he'll get better next year"

Which he very well might...... I've gone on record in the past, saying that it is just as likely that we'll be looking for a franchise quarterback in two years. Who knows..... we'll have to wait and see.

As for me, and who I support....... I honestly believe this team can go 13-3... and that's what I'm rooting for.



out of the RBs you mentioned, which ones are good, but not great??

You're prooving my point for me.... Jamal Lewis is a great back..... To prove that I am wrong, and that it's no big deal to rush for 1000 yards, you have to start naming scrubbs who are rushing for 1000 yards.... & you've got to admit a guy with a 4000 yard passing offense has a bit of an advantage to a guy with a 2600 yard passing offense.

Curtis Martin will be in the Hall of Fame, Jamal's 2000 yard season will be talked about forever...

I don't see your point.

Point is, I just named 18 RB's in the NFL who have rushed for more than 1000 yards more than once. Out of those 18, I consider DD, McGahee, Drouhgns, Taylor, and Anderson, good backs not great backs.

 

[TEXANRED]

QBs like Manning make Reggie Waynes, and Edgerin James'.....

Yes, but it is receivers like Harrison that make QB's like Manning. Notice Marvin is always open? Its not b/c the other D isn't trying.

See what you have started!

Thats it! I am going to go and start my own David Carr thread!

 

[infantrycak]

The following comment is more general than just this thread. No offense intended to recent posters on this thread.

I've noticed that there are quite a few players - beyond Carr - on the team that have their own base of anti-fans. I think that many of these fans also harbor a desire to see their own particular whipping boy fail. I guess that is human nature. Some have made up their minds about certain players and refuse to change it based on new information no matter what. I saw one person state something like "I'll always think player x is a bust no matter what. I don't care what he does from here on out". This about a player who has played 20-30 plays in his short career.

As I've said before, apparently it is easier to take new information and spin it to fit a certain viewpoint than it is to think about what is going on as things change (like coaching) and perhaps go so far as admit an error in evaluating a player.

If I was wrong sticks in a persons throat, I suggest they try mea culpa to hide the meaning a little. I'll start:

The new coaches apparently think McKinney can contribute as a starting guard. I could never get past his performance at center in recent years. It looks like these coaches will build a better o-line with pieces we already have that I didn't think were very good. Mea culpa.

I'd like to nominate this post for "Post of the Off-Season."

That's exactly what is behind a lot of this spinning--folks taking often but not always overstated positions in the 1st place not owning up to the fact they may be wrong or a player has improved.

 

[GP]

Please do not include "me" in that "we". Refer to my longest post in this section please.

I guess my philosophy on this topic is that no single player on our team played "well" in a 2-14 season. It was a complete meltdown of epic proportions.

Carr did NOT play well, but he was joined by about 50 other players around him who also did not play well. And the root cause, IMO, was coaching. Seasons prior to 2005 saw "good" play from most all Texans players, and the record reflects it. But I would say, with the exception of a few minor bursts of excitement via Jerome Mathis, that nobody played well at all.

In that sense, my friend, we all need to be honest enough to admit it.

And thus my entire point in this is that all of it is in the past. We got the flu shot and it hurt...but now we have a much better chance against the flu than I think we've ever had. Just the idea of not seeing Bradford and Gaffney atop the WR depth chart, or on the chart at all, is enough to get me excited. good luck to 'em, but I think they stayed on our team at least one season too long. And that was the kind of homerish, "he's my guy" type of decision making that Capers and crew constantly tripped over. There was ZERO competition for depth chart battles. Everybody was basically unionized.

But............some people obviously want to lump in the franchise QB with the dearly departed coaching staff. And that's where I just scratch my head in utter confusion. Yes, he did not play "well," but again I say: The entire team did not play well...heck, the 2004 season-ending debacle at home against Cleveland SHOULD have been the tipping point for Bob McNair, but he gave the coaching staff one more year to prove that it was just a fluke.

Admitting that Carr did not play well in 2005 is not admitting that he "can't" play. He was just as much a victim of circumstance as the other players on our team were. He's gonna' do better this year: Bank on it.

 

[texan279]

I guess my philosophy on this topic is that no single player on our team played "well" in a 2-14 season. It was a complete meltdown of epic proportions.

Carr did NOT play well, but he was joined by about 50 other players around him who also did not play well. And the root cause, IMO, was coaching. Seasons prior to 2005 saw "good" play from most all Texans players, and the record reflects it. But I would say, with the exception of a few minor bursts of excitement via Jerome Mathis, that nobody played well at all.

In that sense, my friend, we all need to be honest enough to admit it.

And thus my entire point in this is that all of it is in the past. We got the flu shot and it hurt...but now we have a much better chance against the flu than I think we've ever had. Just the idea of not seeing Bradford and Gaffney atop the WR depth chart, or on the chart at all, is enough to get me excited. good luck to 'em, but I think they stayed on our team at least one season too long. And that was the kind of homerish, "he's my guy" type of decision making that Capers and crew constantly tripped over. There was ZERO competition for depth chart battles. Everybody was basically unionized.

But............some people obviously want to lump in the franchise QB with the dearly departed coaching staff. And that's where I just scratch my head in utter confusion. Yes, he did not play "well," but again I say: The entire team did not play well...heck, the 2004 season-ending debacle at home against Cleveland SHOULD have been the tipping point for Bob McNair, but he gave the coaching staff one more year to prove that it was just a fluke.

Admitting that Carr did not play well in 2005 is not admitting that he "can't" play. He was just as much a victim of circumstance as the other players on our team were. He's gonna' do better this year: Bank on it.

Post of the year right here, great post.

 

[GP]

The following comment is more general than just this thread. No offense intended to recent posters on this thread.

I've noticed that there are quite a few players - beyond Carr - on the team that have their own base of anti-fans. I think that many of these fans also harbor a desire to see their own particular whipping boy fail. I guess that is human nature. Some have made up their minds about certain players and refuse to change it based on new information no matter what. I saw one person state something like "I'll always think player x is a bust no matter what. I don't care what he does from here on out". This about a player who has played 20-30 plays in his short career.

As I've said before, apparently it is easier to take new information and spin it to fit a certain viewpoint than it is to think about what is going on as things change (like coaching) and perhaps go so far as admit an error in evaluating a player.

If I was wrong sticks in a persons throat, I suggest they try mea culpa to hide the meaning a little. I'll start:

The new coaches apparently think McKinney can contribute as a starting guard. I could never get past his performance at center in recent years. It looks like these coaches will build a better o-line with pieces we already have that I didn't think were very good. Mea culpa.

And that's exactly what I am trying to say.

I want my team (the Texans) to succeed. Even if I dislike a certain player on our team, I ain't gonna' hold such a big grudge against him that I wish him to fail...and then I take delight in his calamity...it just goes against the very grain of what we're trying to do: WIN.

But as I read these anti-Carr posts, I kinda' get a little sick at my stomach because some people seem to realllllllly (honestly and truly) harbor a secret desire to see the guy flop. To prove THEIR point? That's what it appears to be.

If it were not, then we wouldn't see such an overtly driven set of posts on this topic that continue to "support" Kubiak in his decision to keep Carr, while at the same time saying that Carr was/is a mistake.

Anyway. I don't like to paint with a broad brush. We all hate to be accused of something. But this is getting a little silly in terms of what people are saying about the franchise QB. At least WAIT until he really flops, then some of you can have your bonfire. I won't be coming to it, by the way (if it happens).

 

[TEXANRED]

not owning up to the fact they may be wrong or a player has improved.

Well I am usually wrong. I thought Babin and Pbuc would be studs, I thought our O-line just needed time to gel, I thought no other line-backer in the world could be worse than Forman, I thought losing Foley was a whopedy-do, I thought Glenn was old and had lost a step, I thought Coleman was going to be a stud safety, I thought Capers would get us to a superbowl, I thought casserly could build a championship football team, I thought we would get the next superbowl, I thought there was no way in the world we would lose to Detroit and san diego, I thought we would take Reggie Bush.

I am wrong alot.

 

[real]

So I'll toss this out at you: Do you or do you not support our QB, and are you in any way whatsoever holding a secret desire to see him fail?

I don't think everyone who has skepticism about Carr wants to see him fail...I'm one who is on the Carr watch, but by no means do I want to see the guy fail...Just because if he does bad, that probably means the team does bad...We are Texan Fans...Carr is a Texans player who happened to be the first player drafted by us, which happened to be the number one pick...HE has not played up to an acceptable level thus far...PERIOD...It doesn't matter what the reasons for his sub-par performance are, because thats water under the bridge...And Carr isn't the only player that hasn't performed, and he isn't the only player who's head will be called for if he continues not to perform...Carr is just under more scrutiny because he is the QB...our first pick...Can you really blame the fans for expecting, and wanting more out of him...We have a right to call out Carr...What are we supposed to do? He is a grown man...football is his job...he hasn't performed well....Now if That statement held true for anyone of us at our jobs we'd hear grumblings as well...He is not a kid...He deserves all the criticism he has recieved...just like anyother Texan player that under performs...

 

[texan279]

We have a right to call out Carr...What are we supposed to do? He is a grown man...football is his job...he hasn't performed well....Now if That statement held true for anyone of us at our jobs we'd hear grumblings as well...He is not a kid...He deserves all the criticism he has recieved...just like anyother Texan player that under performs...

Then why hasn't Andre Johnson ever been called out on here? I have said things about problems with his performance in the past and it goes ignored, but every day I get on here there is a new thread having to do something with Carr.

 

[real]

Then why hasn't Andre Johnson ever been called out on here? I have said things about problems with his performance in the past and it goes ignored, but every day I get on here there is a new thread having to do something with Carr.

I have called out Andre...And I haven't started any Negative threads about Carr or any other players...

 

[texan279]

I have called out Andre...And I haven't started any Negative threads about Carr or any other players...

I wasn't talking about you, but the board as a whole.

 

[edo783]

Then why hasn't Andre Johnson ever been called out on here? I have said things about problems with his performance in the past and it goes ignored, but every day I get on here there is a new thread having to do something with Carr.

Because he wouldn't have been replaced by VY if we had drafted him. Check most of the negative Carr posters and most of them are former VY rabid supportes and they, in their heart of hearts, want Carr to fail so that they can say "See, he's a piece of dog do and we should have drafted VY". That IMO, is what is really behind most of the negative Carr posts. There are some folks who have for a long time brought up issues with Carr, my self included, but the ones who constantly rag on him can almost to a person be traced back to VY supporters.

 

[real]

I wasn't talking about you, but the board as a whole.

Well like i said above...Carr is the QB...The assumed leader...The franchises
1st pick...A number one pick...Why wouldn't he be under more scrutiny ? Thats like putting Carr and Owen Daniels on the same level....If Daniels doesn't perform well it won't be nearly as big of a blow if Carr doesn't perform well...Thats why Carr is getting called out more...

 

[wicked_wayz]

Because he wouldn't have been replaced by VY if we had drafted him. Check most of the negative Carr posters and most of them are former VY rabid supportes and they, in their heart of hearts, want Carr to fail so that they can say "See, he's a piece of dog do and we should have drafted VY". That IMO, is what is really behind most of the negative Carr posts. There are some folks who have for a long time brought up issues with Carr, my self included, but the ones who constantly rag on him can almost to a person be traced back to VY supporters.

I HAVE ALWAYS IMAGINE WHAT IT BE LIKE IF CARR PLAYED WITH ANOTHER TEAM...I ALWAYS THOUGHT HE'D DO BETTER

 

[real]

Because he wouldn't have been replaced by VY if we had drafted him. Check most of the negative Carr posters and most of them are former VY rabid supportes and they, in their heart of hearts, want Carr to fail so that they can say "See, he's a piece of dog do and we should have drafted VY". That IMO, is what is really behind most of the negative Carr posts. There are some folks who have for a long time brought up issues with Carr, my self included, but the ones who constantly rag on him can almost to a person be traced back to VY supporters.

I think thats an overstatement....Honestly at 1st I wanted VY, But after the fact I am still excited about the Mario Pick-up, and I realize it was probably the best thing for our team....and just like you all have said that some people just never liked him and never will....the same could be said about these blind loyalist homers...You always liked him, and always will...No matter how bad he stinks....Well you all have posed Questions...now its my turn....When will enough be enough...do you all have a point at which Carr must perform...or will he continue to get excuses...All Im saying is that he needs to perform, because if he doesn't then he needs to be gone...

 

[Texans_Chick]

The following comment is more general than just this thread. No offense intended to recent posters on this thread.

I've noticed that there are quite a few players - beyond Carr - on the team that have their own base of anti-fans. I think that many of these fans also harbor a desire to see their own particular whipping boy fail. I guess that is human nature. Some have made up their minds about certain players and refuse to change it based on new information no matter what. I saw one person state something like "I'll always think player x is a bust no matter what. I don't care what he does from here on out". This about a player who has played 20-30 plays in his short career.

As I've said before, apparently it is easier to take new information and spin it to fit a certain viewpoint than it is to think about what is going on as things change (like coaching) and perhaps go so far as admit an error in evaluating a player.

If I was wrong sticks in a persons throat, I suggest they try mea culpa to hide the meaning a little. I'll start:

The new coaches apparently think McKinney can contribute as a starting guard. I could never get past his performance at center in recent years. It looks like these coaches will build a better o-line with pieces we already have that I didn't think were very good. Mea culpa.

Worth repeating again. Nice.

Basically, the short answer is that a lot of the posts on the MB right now are a reflection of boredom in the offseason and lack of information about what the Texans are going to do.

I feel that any of our preconceived notions of what the Texans are and are not need to be done blowned up. We have to wait until the season. And waiting sucks.

 

[TwinSisters]

Then why hasn't Andre Johnson ever been called out on here? I have said things about problems with his performance in the past and it goes ignored, but every day I get on here there is a new thread having to do something with Carr.

You know I have been thinking about it. But Andre got his Pro Bowl and is the only Texan that can threaten to crack a top 50 list of the best players in the NFL. He does this with the same play calling, line, and QB.

Carr has a hard time cracking the top 15 out of 32+ plus starters.

I couldn't find the salary information though for the past couple of years. Thank you NFL for being *********** **** ****** ***** *****. Like the salary information is TOP SECRET and we have to guard it against terrorist Soccer fans from Trinidad or something. I am not talking about just Andre, but all of the WRs.

I figure in the end it would just turn into another Montana-Rice Paradox.
---

I would ask myself this: If I traded either one... who would get me the higher draft pick in return? I am not so sure I could get a 1st round pick for Carr, but I feel like I could for Andre.

 

[texan279]

Well like i said above...Carr is the QB...The assumed leader...The franchises
1st pick...A number one pick...Why wouldn't he be under more scrutiny ? Thats like putting Carr and Owen Daniels on the same level....If Daniels doesn't perform well it won't be nearly as big of a blow if Carr doesn't perform well...Thats why Carr is getting called out more...

AJ was the #3 overall pick in 2003. Bradford was dogged on the boards while he was here, as well as Coleman and others, they weren't all #1 picks. IMO it doesn't matter if you are a #1 overall pick or the last pick in the draft, every player deserves to be criticized or talked about, that's our right as a fan. And no, I am not saying Carr has performed great, or even good, and I have talked bad about him in the past and think he has things to work on, it just seems like nothing but Carr bashing goes on around here when in fact the whole team should be getting ragged on for their performance last season, not just Carr because he is our QB or was a #1 pick, everyone deserves some criticism.

 

[texan279]

You know I have been thinking about it. But Andre got his Pro Bowl and is the only Texan that can threaten to crack a top 50 list of the best players in the NFL. He does this with the same play calling, line, and QB.

Carr has a hard time cracking the top 15 out of 32+ plus starters.

I couldn't find the salary information though for the past couple of years. Thank you NFL for being *********** **** ****** ***** *****. Like the salary information is TOP SECRET and we have to guard it against terrorist Soccer fans from Trinidad or something. I am not talking about just Andre, but all of the WRs.

I figure in the end it would just turn into another Montana-Rice Paradox.
---

I would ask myself this: If I traded either one... who would get me the higher draft pick in return? I am not so sure I could get a 1st round pick for Carr, but I feel like I could for Andre.

One pro bowl hardly gives any player an excuse to slide when he doesn't perform...And AJ is scheduled to make about 100,000 more than Carr this season if that is what you were looking for. And by the way, the season AJ made the pro bowl, AJ was ranked 17th in the NFL in receiving yards and didn't even crack the top 30 in receiving TD's, that same season Carr was ranked 12th in the NFL in passing yards and 16th in the NFL for passer rating.

 

[TwinSisters]

One pro bowl hardly gives any player an excuse to slide when he doesn't perform...And AJ is scheduled to make about 100,000 more than Carr this season if that is what you were looking for.

Yes I agree. But you don't really pay marquee guys on a season for season basis. That's partially why there was some trouble in Tennesse with McNair. They would slide contract money around and when came time to pay up for the shifts, they balked. So Steve took off. ( same type of deal with Manning, as far as shifting pay around )

What I wanted to find was the salary ( the cap hits mostly ) for all of the other starting WRs in the league and then compare that with Andre Johnson. ( to see what the market value for WRs are for a given year and so forth )

Then look at how much he impacts the cap compared with Carr and other QBs.

I don't agree with the notion that just because we have one over paid guy that it should detract from looking at another over paid guy. It's not logically sound. That's like having one numbnut working for you that is slacking off and trying to defend his slacktitude with the rest of the bums on his shift. It doesn't change what is going on with that particular individual.
---

Although I do have to say the cap is not the only thing you can look at with Andre, so maybe I it will be cool to look at some other things about him.

 

[real]

AJ was the #3 overall pick in 2003. Bradford was dogged on the boards while he was here, as well as Coleman and others, they weren't all #1 picks. IMO it doesn't matter if you are a #1 overall pick or the last pick in the draft, every player deserves to be criticized or talked about, that's our right as a fan. And no, I am not saying Carr has performed great, or even good, and I have talked bad about him in the past and think he has things to work on, it just seems like nothing but Carr bashing goes on around here when in fact the whole team should be getting ragged on for their performance last season, not just Carr because he is our QB or was a #1 pick, everyone deserves some criticism.

You stated we as fans have a right to comment on anyplayer...Even Carr???...You aren't even disagreeing with what I'm saying...You are just saying it differently...You just restated my point...The only thing we disagree on is why Carr is getting more of the scrutiny....You say there isn't much difference between the #1 pick and #3.... ....I say there is...I can probably remember the last 10 or so 1st picks of the draft....Id be hard pressed to tell you the last ten 2nd let alone third picks of the draft...And like it or not he is the QB, therefore the assumed leader....You even named a couple of other players that have been criticized so it's not like others haven't been pointed out...but my whole point is people are asking why so much attention on Carr??!!!....Well I just gave you the reason that I think ...He has basically been the face of the franchise since Day one...Now you may think that means nothing and he should be under the same watchful eye as everyone else....The world doesn't work like that...The one who is in the lime light will take the blame and they will also get the glory....Here is another question....Why do you stand up for Carr?? Do you stand up for every Texan Player that hasn't performed just as much as you do for Carr???

 

[infantrycak]

I've gone on record in the past, saying that it is just as likely that we'll be looking for a franchise quarterback in two years. Who knows..... we'll have to wait and see.

As for me, and who I support....... I honestly believe this team can go 13-3... and that's what I'm rooting for.

Those two thoughts/positions are incompatible. No way this team goes 13-3 and then gets rid of Carr. If Carr is on a path to leaving, the team is under .500.

 

[texan279]

You stated we as fans have a right to comment on anyplayer...Even Carr???...You aren't even disagreeing with what I'm saying...You are just saying it differently...You just restated my point...The only thing we disagree on is why Carr is getting more of the scrutiny....You say there isn't much difference between the #1 pick and #3.... ....I say there is...I can probably remember the last 10 or so 1st picks of the draft....Id be hard pressed to tell you the last ten 2nd let alone third picks of the draft...And like it or not he is the QB, therefore the assumed leader....You even named a couple of other players that have been criticized so it's not like others haven't been pointed out...but my whole point is people are asking why so much attention on Carr??!!!....Well I just gave you the reason that I think ...He has basically been the face of the franchise since Day one...Now you may think that means nothing and he should be under the same watchful eye as everyone else....The world doesn't work like that...The one who is in the lime light will take the blame and they will also get the glory....Here is another question....Why do you stand up for Carr?? Do you stand up for every Texan Player that hasn't performed just as much as you do for Carr???

The only reason I stand up for Carr is because he is the only player on here that people hate on and knit pick about. I don't understand why Carr is the only one talked bad about on here. And by the way, I have also defended Babin, TJ, Buchanon, and other players on here as well.

 

[thunderkyss]

Well I am usually wrong. I thought Babin and Pbuc would be studs, I thought our O-line just needed time to gel,

See...... I don't think I'm bashing Carr...... I'm saying he needs to play better.... duh..... I'm not saying the other 50 or so players don't need to get better.... I'm not saying we were 2-14 because of Carr.......

But I don't understand why we can't say Carr needs to play better, without generating a 6 page tome of, "You should support Kubiak and his QB" posts..

But we can say Bain & Pbuc were wastes of picks.....

I like Babin, & I think PBuc should get this season to prove he was worth the cost.

I think Carr has a strong arm...... I think Carr has a lot of talent...... I think Carr needs to learn what it takes to be a starting NFL QB, and I think it's pitiful that he is basically a redshirt 5 year veteran.

& that's not bashing, because that is what he is.

From day one, Gary Kubiak has been saying the same things... not in these exact words.

 

[thunderkyss]

& it is true, that I was a Vince Young supporter. But more than anything, I was & is a Reggie Bush hater..... if we are going to use the first pick, let's use it on something we need...... Let's take BPA, at a position we need...... in my mind, it's not the same, as drafting for need....

In my mind, Vince, Reggie, & Mario all could be considered BPA.... we don't need a running back with Kubiak coming over with his patented running SYSTEM. DD has proven (IMHO) to be a better running back than Carr has proven to be at QB....... this is why no one picks on AJ...... he is a better WR, than Carr is QB..... so I've got Vince Rated over Reggie.... but we need a pass rush more than we need a QB.......

Personally, I would've traded down to get him, but I believe in my heart of hearts that N.O. would have took him. & it was a better move, to take Mario @ #1, than to get try to get Vince @ 4, because we would have lost on both counts.

But, I'd have been happy, regardless who we took as long as it wasn't Reggie Bush.

 

[thunderkyss]

Those two thoughts/positions are incompatible. No way this team goes 13-3 and then gets rid of Carr. If Carr is on a path to leaving, the team is under .500.

that is correct...... I'm hoping we go 13-3......

I am not hoping that we get rid of Carr.

 

[TK_Gamer]

Because he wouldn't have been replaced by VY if we had drafted him. Check most of the negative Carr posters and most of them are former VY rabid supportes and they, in their heart of hearts, want Carr to fail so that they can say "See, he's a piece of dog do and we should have drafted VY". That IMO, is what is really behind most of the negative Carr posts. There are some folks who have for a long time brought up issues with Carr, my self included, but the ones who constantly rag on him can almost to a person be traced back to VY supporters.

I agree
what are they gonna say when they find out their golden boy VY isnt ready for the nfl yet and in my oppinion wont be ready for 2 years minimum. skill wise or maturity wise. do you people not watch college football? do you really think that shotgun option, sidearm delivery is gonna fly in the nfl? why do you think VY dropped so far in the draft? I honestly see Lienart being a starter and productive way before VY. then where would we be? Mario and Carr and DD look pretty darn smart to me.

 

[fan no matter what]

I agree totaly i have been saying that since the beginning.:brickwall

 

[real]

what are they gonna say when they find out their golden boy VY isnt ready for the nfl yet and in my oppinion wont be ready for 2 years minimum. skill wise or maturity wise. do you people not watch college football? do you really think that shotgun option, sidearm delivery is gonna fly in the nfl? why do you think VY dropped so far in the draft? I honestly see Lienart being a starter and productive way before VY. then where would we be? Mario and Carr and DD look pretty darn smart to me.

V.Young went third...I don't think that is dropping , but hey......And I too see leinhart being a starter and more productive sooner...But not because he is more talented.....because he is surrounded by better talent offensively, and in college he was in more of an NFL style offense.....VY does have issues he needs to work on, but how can people be so down on a guy who was the best QB in college last yr., and won the N'tl title???...It baffles me...Every player that was in college has some things to work on, not just VY....

 

[real]

I agree totaly i have been saying that since the beginning.:brickwall

The beggining of what??...April.....You only have had 17 post prior to ^^that one...you couldn't have said too much...

 

[thunderkyss]

I agree
what are they gonna say when they find out their golden boy VY isnt ready for the nfl yet and in my oppinion wont be ready for 2 years minimum. skill wise or maturity wise. do you people not watch college football? do you really think that shotgun option, sidearm delivery is gonna fly in the nfl? why do you think VY dropped so far in the draft? I honestly see Lienart being a starter and productive way before VY. then where would we be? Mario and Carr and DD look pretty darn smart to me.

we're going on 5 years now...... maybe our QB is ready.......

I also see Vince starting and being more productive than Matt a lot sooner. Matt gets no playing time, if the Cardinals are winning. & that team is built to win. So if he doesn't beat out Warner in the Preseason, it may be next year before he straps on his helmet.

Tennessee aren't expect a winning season in '06....... they've got nothing to lose. If Vince can prove that he's ready...... which all reports indicate that he is doing...... he might start early in '06.

 

[TEXANRED]

The beggining of what??...April.....You only have had 17 post prior to ^^that one...you couldn't have said too much...

That doesn't mean he doesn't watch football or have friends and co-workers to talk to. Just means he just recently joined.

I read these boards for three years before I finally joined. I just didn't want to post. Now I can't stop. I even get on at my friends houses to post.

Its a sickness. Who needs my space when you have the Texan MB?

 

[real]

That doesn't mean he doesn't watch football or have friends and co-workers to talk to. Just means he just recently joined.

I read these boards for three years before I finally joined. I just didn't want to post. Now I can't stop. I even get on at my friends houses to post.

Its a sickness. Who needs my space when you have the Texan MB?

I was joking with the guy...

 

[fan no matter what]

i have not been posting very long you are right. but i have been a texans fan since the beginning.

i dont have any problems with vy but i think david carr hasnt had a chance and with the coaching staff and upgrades to the line he should have a much improved year. of course that doesnt come without it actually happening and we will all be a little wiser this time next year.

 

[TexansLucky13]

This is off-topic (which is a good thing considering this is a model Carr thread).... but xtruroyaltyx I can't stop watching Earl Campbell plow through defenders on your avatar! I love that clip and I wish we had him on our roster!