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Clowney, then what?

bhsman said:
All-Universe NFL Scout Brett Kollmann had an interesting point on Clowney, thinking he could play a 5-tech DE in the 3-4:

http://www.battleredblog.com/2014/1...ville-quarterback-teddy-bridgewater#212780537



http://www.battleredblog.com/2014/2/5/5383836/2014-nfl-draft-what-to-learn-from-seattle



TL;DR - Clowney replaces Antonio Smith in the 3-4 and between him, a big NT like Beau Allen/Justin Ellis/Louis Nix, and Watt, you CAN'T block all of them (at least without risking 1v1 matchups on Clowney/Watt) and it means leaving just a TE/RB on Mercilus and Trevardo Williams.
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So this article has said what I've said for awhile,clowney isn't bendable. That means he can't convert speed to power and close the corner on the qb. Barr is the same way and that's why I wouldn't draft him high either. Clowney is a physical specimen,but in terms of being a top flight pass rusher,that's not him. Kearse was a more bendable,physical athlete than clowney. Kearse was a helluva player until teams just started pushing him past the qb.

If I really want a 5 technique who can rush the qb and play the run without shooting gaps,I would probably draft hageman or clowneys teammate quarles after the 1st pick.
 
leebigeztx said:
So this article has said what I've said for awhile,clowney isn't bendable. That means he can't convert speed to power and close the corner on the qb. Barr is the same way and that's why I wouldn't draft him high either. Clowney is a physical specimen,but in terms of being a top flight pass rusher,that's not him. Kearse was a more bendable,physical athlete than clowney. Kearse was a helluva player until teams just started pushing him past the qb.

If I really want a 5 technique who can rush the qb and play the run without shooting gaps,I would probably draft hageman or clowneys teammate quarles after the 1st pick.
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Hey jokester, you might of well just said, "Usain Bolt is a physical specimen,but in terms of being a top flight sprinter,that's not him."
 
thunderkyss said:
As mentioned earlier, if I'm having to decide between Mettenberger at 2-1 or Mallet at 2-1, I'm going with Mallet.
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Both are too high. I'd trade down to at least a mid round second (picking up a mid round 3rd) before using it on either of these guys and wouldn't mind risking waiting till the 3-1.
 
IDEXAN said:
Something needs to be clarified about the Seahawk's corners right now.
Are they big ? Yep. Are they physical ? Yep. Are they fast ? Like gazelles baby, just like gazelles ! Besides football, Sherman was a track guy in college (10.7, 100 meters) and Maxwell is a 4.4 40 guy. That's fast.
So just so we understand here, NFL CBs need to be fast whether or nor they are big and physical.
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Big and fast and physical. Why weren't they drafted higher?
 
mussop said:
It doesn't matter what I think. if they felt he was worthy of the pick then it's a no brainer. They didn't use their first overall draft pick on him because they needed a QB. They obviously believed in him. If they didn't they would not have drafted him.
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They actually did exactly this. Jimmy Clausen was their starting QB before he got there.

Most big boards I saw had Cam Newton outside of the top 7 overall.

They NEEDED a QB and they reached for him at #1 because he was the best in the draft in their opinion.

Almost every website had many defensive players rated in front of him including Pat Peterson, Von Miller, Dareus, and even AJ Green (O).

IDEXAN said:
Hey jokester, you might of well just said, "Usain Bolt is a physical specimen,but in terms of being a top flight sprinter,that's not him."
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Good job responding to someone's analysis with attacks. Bravo!
 
Dan Kadar ‏@MockingTheDraft
Clowney said he doesn't plan on having surgery for his bone spurs and that his foot feels great.

Clowney reaffirms on @dpshow that he'll do the Combine drills. Wants to bench 225 25 times. Jokingly said he wants to run 4.4.
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TexansFTW said:
They actually did exactly this. Jimmy Clausen was their starting QB before he got there.

Most big boards I saw had Cam Newton outside of the top 7 overall.

They NEEDED a QB and they reached for him at #1 because he was the best in the draft in their opinion.

Almost every website had many defensive players rated in front of him including Pat Peterson, Von Miller, Dareus, and even AJ Green (O).



Good job responding to someone's analysis with attacks. Bravo!
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if they didn't think he was worthy of that pick they wouldnt have picked him.
 
leebigeztx said:
So this article has said what I've said for awhile,clowney isn't bendable. That means he can't convert speed to power and close the corner on the qb. Barr is the same way and that's why I wouldn't draft him high either. Clowney is a physical specimen,but in terms of being a top flight pass rusher,that's not him. Kearse was a more bendable,physical athlete than clowney. Kearse was a helluva player until teams just started pushing him past the qb.

If I really want a 5 technique who can rush the qb and play the run without shooting gaps,I would probably draft hageman or clowneys teammate quarles after the 1st pick.
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Can Watt bend? You are under estimating how good Clowney is at using his hands, holding his ground, shedding blocks and his strength bull rushing.
 
Corrosion said:
I cant say I blame him because there is so much $$$ on the line. But it comes off to me as if he's more concerned with his draft position than his football season.
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I'd say that's true for literally everyone in the draft right now.
 
mussop said:
Can Watt bend? You are under estimating how good Clowney is at using his hands, holding his ground, shedding blocks and his strength bull rushing.
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JJ is 300 lbs and thick. Clowney looks like a basketball player similar to jason taylor. Watt gets skinny and explodes with his 300 lbs. When you're 265 and 6'6, you have to drop. And bend to shorten the corner to the qb. If you can't,lt will just let you speed rush and push you past the qb. Gotta have a counter to be a good pass rusher. All the good to great pass rushers will speed rush,then when lt set for it,drop the inside shoulder and bull rush the guy.
 
"Along the defensive line, he grades out better than any prospect I've seen based on the combination of size, athleticism and instincts. Ndamukong Suh was one of the best defensive line prospects I ever graded, and Clowney looks to be a better prospect than Suh. Clowney is a special talent that only comes around once or twice in a generation."

NFL Films' Greg Cosell summed up the story on South Carolina's outstanding prospect like this: "Whether Clowney is a once-in-a-generation player, or just a damn good pass rusher that every team would love to have, it doesn't matter. He's a really good pass rusher."

Clowney's place in history as a prospect makes for good fodder for barroom debates, but it has little bearing on whether or not he's the No. 1 overall pick.
Texans owner Bob McNair has already heaped public praise on Clowney and apparently even went to star J.J. Watt to make sure Clowney would have him in his corner should Houston spend its top pick on the college star.

"He is a remarkable player. He's one of these players that's really a once-in-every-10-years kind of physical specimen that comes along," McNair said in an interview on the team's website.

That being said, Clowney is hardly a lock, or even the favorite to be the No. 1 overall pick. That honor belongs to Teddy Bridgewater, who certainly isn't on the same level as Clowney in terms of his stature as an ultra-elite talent.

Coincidently, the last defensive player in Clowney's stratosphere was Suh, who went No. 2, behind Sam Bradford -- a player Bussell feels is the closest recent comparison for Bridgewater.

So far, Bradford has underwhelmed while Suh, despite occasional lapses in judgment, has proved to be one of the most disruptive interior players in the league. In other words, Detroit seems to have gotten the better end of that pair of selections.

Clowney possesses the type of talent to make any team who passes on him look inept.


Read More:
 
IDEXAN said:
Hey jokester, you might of well just said, "Usain Bolt is a physical specimen,but in terms of being a top flight sprinter,that's not him."
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I don't get it. Are you saying because a physical specimen, that why he'll be a good pass rusher?
 
Let the offers rain in.
smileys-money-114847.gif
 
Playoffs said:
Let the offers rain in.
smileys-money-114847.gif
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This draft is deep. I wanted a trade with Cleveland where we received both of their first this year and next years first. Now I think I would rather have a both this years first and both their 3rds and their earliest 4th. If we could pull that off man we could fill so many holes.
 
mussop said:
This draft is deep. I wanted a trade with Cleveland where we received both of their first this year and next years first. Now I think I would rather have a both this years first and both their 3rds and their earliest 4th. If we could pull that off man we could fill so many holes.
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Give me 4 , 26 their earliest 3rd and next years first .... This team can be fixed in a hurry .... pending you make the right choice at QB.
 
mussop said:
This draft is deep. I wanted a trade with Cleveland where we received both of their first this year and next years first. Now I think I would rather have a both this years first and both their 3rds and their earliest 4th. If we could pull that off man we could fill so many holes.
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Corrosion said:
Give me 4 , 26 their earliest 3rd and next years first .... This team can be fixed in a hurry .... pending you make the right choice at QB.
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You guys really think there is any chance in hell they give us all that just to move up three spots? No way we get that kind of haul in my mind.
 
So Suh was the last once in 10 yr player who was drafted in 2010? Suh has been good but,For some reason even with 1st talent and other god players, their unit has sucked. Suh, hasn't seen the trap play since he's been in nfl. Atkins and wilkerson have been better than suh. Throw in the rising jets rookie and mccoy, that why the generation thing doesn't do it for me. Aldon Smith has physical traits off the charts. Dude was squatting 700lbs as a 19 yr old. Since he's been in the league along with von,those guys have been a sack per game. Nobody called the once in 10 yr guys either.
 
matts290 said:
You guys really think there is any chance in hell they give us all that just to move up three spots? No way we get that kind of haul in my mind.
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You compare it what the Redskins gave up to move up to #2 to get "Their Guy" and both our scenario's are a bit less in overall compensation & this is the first pick , not the second.

That deal was 3#1's and a #2 ?

If they believe that QB is the one to put them over the proverbial hump , they'll pony up. Cleveland has been starving for a QB .... since they came back into the league. Desperation for that QB and the belief that he makes you a perennial contender .... yeah , I can see a deal like that.

Its a huge gamble for any team but the QB position is so important in this league that it can pay off in spades.
 
mussop said:
This draft is deep. I wanted a trade with Cleveland where we received both of their first this year and next years first. Now I think I would rather have a both this years first and both their 3rds and their earliest 4th. If we could pull that off man we could fill so many holes.
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We haven't had draft success like you are envisioning in a while (if ever).

I get that we have a new set of eyes looking and evaluating now, but I still won't believe it till I see it. Plus if you're Cleveland why would you do that?

You can grab one of the 3 QBs (whom you are rumored to love all 3) or you can get Clowney.

If you ask me for a trade I offer you my #26 for your #33. If you don't like it, fine, I don't care. Good day. This is assuming I'm not lying about my true intentions which I likely am.
 
TexansFTW said:
We haven't had draft success like you are envisioning in a while (if ever).

I get that we have a new set of eyes looking and evaluating now, but I still won't believe it till I see it. Plus if you're Cleveland why would you do that?

You can grab one of the 3 QBs (whom you are rumored to love all 3) or you can get Clowney.

If you ask me for a trade I offer you my #26 for your #33. If you don't like it, fine, I don't care. Good day. This is assuming I'm not lying about my true intentions which I likely am.
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Where has it been rumored that Cleveland is interested in all three QB's? They are in love with Manziel according to all reports. If they truly want him they need to trade with us to guarantee they get him.
 
"The interesting aspect of Clowney is the dynamic change from 2012 to '13," explained former Tampa Bay Buccaneers team operations coordinator Joe Bussell. "When watching Clowney on film last season, teams weren't prepared for the raw brutality that he brought to the game. He destroyed left tackles and left guards when matched up one-on-one. He couldn't be blocked in the run game or the pass game."
But then, Bussell said, Clowney became a victim of his own success. Teams accounted for him with two, and sometimes three blockers. Missouri intentionally ran the ball to the opposite side of the formation from Clowney.
But for an NFL defense, this attention is an asset. When teams have to devote multiple blockers to one defender, it frees up other players to make plays.
"Clowney is one of those rare prospects that has an astronomically high ceiling while showing both polish and room to get better," Bussell noted.
"When comparing Clowney to past draft prospects, the way teams have to adjust to him reminds me of the way teams adjusted to Lawrence Taylor. I would put Clowney in that same class, and ahead of, top-notch edge rushing prospects Mario Williams and Von Miller."
That narrative about Clowney being a once-in-a-generation player? Bussell was fully on board.
"Along the defensive line, he grades out better than any prospect I've seen based on the combination of size, athleticism and instincts. Ndamukong Suh was one of the best defensive line prospects I ever graded, and Clowney looks to be a better prospect than Suh. Clowney is a special talent that only comes around once or twice in a generation."
***
Rotoworld's NFL Draft guru Josh Norris made the case for disruption over statistical production early this year.
"I consider Clowney a 'rare' prospect," Norris told SI.com. "I almost never use that word in terms of a full evaluation. Prospects can have rare traits, but very, very seldom is the total package 'rare'. He will be the fourth I have evaluated. The others are Calvin Johnson, Ndamukong Suh and Andrew Luck."
***
"I have no reservations about his physical attributes and upside. To me, it's more the off-the-field stuff. I want to know what makes this guy tick," Middlekauf said.
The questions are less about off-the-field issues, and more about motivation. Does Clowney love football?
Even without being able to go through the process and interview Clowney, Middlekauf said, "He'll be a terror."
Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nfl/news/20140205/jadeveon-clowney-nfl-draft-2014/#ixzz2sf4vAX7e
****
Calvin Johnson, Ndamukong Suh and Andrew Luck all turned out pretty good, right ? Hey, I'm just the
messenger here guys.
 
He will be the fourth I have evaluated. The others are Calvin Johnson, Ndamukong Suh and Andrew Luck.
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Detroit has two of them, the non-QBs, and how have they done?

TexansFTW said:
If you ask me for a trade I offer you my #26 for your #33. If you don't like it, fine, I don't care. Good day. This is assuming I'm not lying about my true intentions which I likely am.
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Can you identify any draft pick trade inducing lies? Trying to figure out why you think lying to trade partners is likely.
 
Joel Klatt (talk radio in Denver, played for CU) w/ Fox sports notes the top 10:

1. Houston Texans: Projected pick: Jadeveon Clowney DE, South Carolina

Houston needs a quarterback, and it will look very closely at Johnny Manziel, Teddy Bridgewater and Blake Bortles. However, Clowney is the most dynamic player in the Draft, and as several front office executives told me, it would be an upset if any player was selected before Clowney.
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With JFF to the JF Jags and TB to the Brownies

Fox Sports
 
Corrosion said:
You compare it what the Redskins gave up to move up to #2 to get "Their Guy" and both our scenario's are a bit less in overall compensation & this is the first pick , not the second.

That deal was 3#1's and a #2 ?

If they believe that QB is the one to put them over the proverbial hump , they'll pony up. Cleveland has been starving for a QB .... since they came back into the league. Desperation for that QB and the belief that he makes you a perennial contender .... yeah , I can see a deal like that.

Its a huge gamble for any team but the QB position is so important in this league that it can pay off in spades.
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I'm just glad Smith isn't making the mistake Indianapolis did in broadcasting their choice so that the windfall went in Cleveland's direction. Play it close to the vest and heap praise on anybody any other team wants badly.
 
Marshall said:
I'm just glad Smith isn't making the mistake Indianapolis did in broadcasting their choice so that the windfall went in Cleveland's direction. Play it close to the vest and heap praise on anybody any other team wants badly.
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I bet the Colts would kill for the opportunity to do it all over again.
 
beerlover said:
where did this fall in relation to Matt Schaub resigning, as well as Gary Kubak being extended?
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Wasn't Schaub extended the season prior ? .... making it nearly impossible to cut him because of the cap hit. You'd have had ~40m in cap space tied up in the QB spot between Manning's contract and 24m of that for a guy you cut.
 
Please exscuse my lack of knowledge on the 2 gap scheme we may be employing next season.
But if we get Clowney would this be a waste of his talent? (I am also worried how this affects Watt but thats another topic)
Could we draft a 4th rounder to do the same job?
 
Let me say if Rick is making the draft call then the Texans need to stat put and go BPA. With Rick's draft history you can bet more picks will mean more busts.

I fully believe Rick picked the crappy DB's which led to Wade becoming DC and having to spend a fortune in FA to make up for Rick's mistakes.

A large part of the reason that the Texans are in the cap he** that they are in today. That along with extending a broken foot Schaub and a run into the ground Foster.
 
infantrycak said:
Detroit has two of them, the non-QBs, and how have they done?
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There's not any doubt that Suh and C.Johnson are among the most talented players to come out of college in recent years and there's not any doubt that they are among the most talented in the NFL now that they are in the league, right ? OK now that we've established that, are you suggesting that a team should steer away from drafting top talent because Detroit has failed to fully utilize theirs ?
 
IDEXAN said:
There's not any doubt that Suh and C.Johnson are among the most talented players to come out of college in recent years and there's not any doubt that they are among the most talented in the NFL now that they are in the league, right ? OK now that we've established that, are you suggesting that a team should steer away from drafting top talent because Detroit has failed to utilize theirs ?
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BTW,

Stafford is their QB for the future, which is a big part of the Lions problems.
 
thunderkyss said:
I was being facetious
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Glad to hear it.

Marshall said:
Which is why they may be kicking themselves. They went all in on Luck early in the process instead of letting it play out.
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Looks like you're solo on the insane train. There is 0% chance Indy is kicking themselves.

IDEXAN said:
There's not any doubt that Suh and C.Johnson are among the most talented players to come out of college in recent years and there's not any doubt that they are among the most talented in the NFL now that they are in the league, right ? OK now that we've established that, are you suggesting that a team should steer away from drafting top talent because Detroit has failed to fully utilize theirs ?
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I am suggesting a QB makes a bigger impact even if they are a 90 on talent instead of a 100 for a WR or DT.

steelbtexan said:
BTW,

Stafford is their QB for the future, which is a big part of the Lions problems.
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And fits in exactly with what I am saying. Now with Calvin & Suh there was no option because 2007 & 2010 were wastelands for QBs but the fact remains having both non-QB top talents of a generation has not lifted the team significantly.
 
infantrycak said:
Glad to hear it.



Looks like you're solo on the insane train. There is 0% chance Indy is kicking themselves.



I am suggesting a QB makes a bigger impact even if they are a 90 on talent instead of a 100 for a WR or DT.



And fits in exactly with what I am saying. Now with Calvin & Suh there was no option because 2007 & 2010 were wastelands for QBs but the fact remains having both non-QB top talents of a generation has not lifted the team significantly.
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Agreed on all of this

BTW, Stafford was considered the 90 prospect that you're talking about.
 
infantrycak said:
I am suggesting a QB makes a bigger impact even if they are a 90 on talent instead of a 100 for a WR or DT.
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Good defense often nullifies the impact of a good QB. For example a very good defense beat a very good offense Sunday in NJ, even when the latter had a future HOF under center.
 
IDEXAN said:
Good defense often nullifies the impact of a good QB. For example a very good defense beat a very good offense Sunday in NJ, even when the latter had a future HOF under center.
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A good D is 11 guys, not 1 and using the Seahawks as an example is a poor choice since it was built on 3rd round and later picks.
 
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