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Clowney, then what?

I don't think any of the second round guys that will be available to us have the same upside as Mallet, so I would have no problem sending the #33 for him, in theory at least.

I still don't the probability of a trade like that is high, and common knowledge says we will just take our pick of the QB litter at 1.1...but Clowney at 1 and #33 for Mallet is an intriguing idea.

This guy was a middle of the 3rd round pick.

In 3 years he's thrown 4 NFL passes. 1 complete with 1 interception.

He's "rushed" 8 times for -9 yards.

He's going to be on the 4th year of a 4 year rookie deal which means he will need to get paid after this year if he's ANY good.

Matt Schaub was also a backup 3rd round pick whom we wasted 7 years on.

Nothing here says 2.01 (33) to me at all. In fact, I wouldn't give up anything greater than my 4.01 and even then I'd be quite hesitant.

So 4.01 to compete with and push our high QB draft pick I can live with. 2.01 - abso-freaking-lutely NOT.
 
This guy was a middle of the 3rd round pick.

In 3 years he's thrown 4 NFL passes. 1 complete with 1 interception.

He's "rushed" 8 times for -9 yards.

He's going to be on the 4th year of a 4 year rookie deal which means he will need to get paid after this year if he's ANY good.

Matt Schaub was also a backup 3rd round pick whom we wasted 7 years on.

Nothing here says 2.01 (33) to me at all. In fact, I wouldn't give up anything greater than my 4.01 and even then I'd be quite hesitant.

So 4.01 to compete with and push our high QB draft pick I can live with. 2.01 - abso-freaking-lutely NOT.

Yes he was was a 3rd rounder but only because he fell because of character questions, Mallet was regarded as a high first round talent before slipping.

Yeah he hasn't doesn't squat in the NFL so far, but neither has any other potential QB we draft at 2.01.

To me he is a slightly better version of Mettenberger coming out of college, and has 3 years experience sitting behind the GOAT head coach and QB and if familiar with O'Brien and his system. Many people like Mettenberger at 2.01, so I contend Mallet would be a better choice with that pick.

In no way do I think Mallet is a sure thing, but I think his size and arm strength gives him a lot of upside in the NFL, and if you add in the fact he already been in the league for 3 years learning over rookie QB, it makes him a more intriguing idea than other QBs we could get at 2.01 with the likes of Mettenberger, Garoppolo, McCarron, Carr...

Also if you take cues from other similar situational contracts with Alex Smith and Matt Flynn, a likely contract we would sign Mallet to would be something like 3 years 28 million with 7-9 million guaranteed...so it would not be a bank breaker.

Again, I think the likelihood of this happening is extremely low, and if you forgo a QB at 1.1 I think we almost surely take someone at 2.1 like Mettenberger, Garoppolo, or Carr. I just think it is an intriguing idea given the theoretical upside it presents over drafting a second round rookie.
 
Yes he was was a 3rd rounder but only because he fell because of character questions, Mallet was regarded as a high first round talent before slipping.

By the same people that said Barkley was a high first rounder I bet.

To me he is a slightly better version of Mettenberger coming out of college, and has 3 years experience sitting behind the GOAT head coach and QB and if familiar with O'Brien and his system. Many people like Mettenberger at 2.01, so I contend Mallet would be a better choice with that pick.

At least you have 4 years of Met w/ little to no money before you gotta make a decision.

Also if you take cues from other similar situational contracts with Alex Smith and Matt Flynn, a likely contract we would sign Mallet to would be something like 3 years 28 million with 7-9 million guaranteed...so it would not be a bank breaker.

That would be quite difficult to deal with our current cap situation, a 5 year - 20 mill would be much more favorable to me.

Again, I think the likelihood of this happening is extremely low, and if you forgo a QB at 1.1 I think we almost surely take someone at 2.1 like Mettenberger, Garoppolo, or Carr. I just think it is an intriguing idea given the theoretical upside it presents over drafting a second round rookie.

I hear you though and I get where you're coming from. I like his upside, I just don't get the same rationale and costs as many others do.

In the NBA when someone has an "expiring contract" teams generally do everything they can to trade that guy and get something for him as opposed to letting the player just "walk" in free agency and you get nothing in return.

This is why you see pretty talented basketball players getting traded for 2nd round picks (in the NBA this is garbage) because they'd rather get SOMETHING than let them walk in Free Agency.

I guess that's why I have such issue with over paying for someone the Patriots would LOVE to trade away for ANYTHING before they lose him.
 
By the same people that said Barkley was a high first rounder I bet.

I hate this argument so much and it constantly get regurgitated on this forum as to why a player is not good. Just because scout A said he liked both Barkley and Mallett and then Barkley turns out to be a bust, doesn't mean the exact same thing is destined for Mallett. People think because a scout gets a pick wrong that all the other player they also liked are now somehow tainted...this is ludicrous logic and way to many people on this forum try to use it to validate their opinions. Not trying to attack you directly, just a little rant I have been storing up for some time anyways...

At least you have 4 years of Met w/ little to no money before you gotta make a decision.

True, a 2.01 rookie contract is going to be substantially smaller than the probably money we would have to give Mallet plus the first overall money we would be theoretically giving Clowney is this specific situation. Long term it may make more sense to develop a second round guy for our future, but McNair makes it sound as if he wants to win right now and Mallett would provide a better chance of that I think than 2nd round guys.

That would be quite difficult to deal with our current cap situation, a 5 year - 20 mill would be much more favorable to me.

A 3 year 28 million deal with 7-9 guaranteed including signing and roster bonuses would be more than doable with our contract situation. You have to assume how a contract will be structured for an unproven player like Mallett and it will most certainly include many back end incentives and carry a low first year hit against the cap...



The fact that NE would want to get something for Mallett before he leaves in FA is certainly not a damnation on his talent and would only definitively mean two things. 1. That they believe Brady is still their starter for the foreseeable future and 2. They are not willing to give a backup starter money which he will likely be offered if allowed to walk as UFA.

Again, most of this is coming from my personal view of not being overly excited by any of the current 2nd round prospects at QB but also being very interested in Clowney as a potential 1.1 pick. I don't see of the projected 2-4 rounders as being likely franchise QBs so if we were to get Clowney at 1.1 I would prefer a guy like Mallett who I think has more potential to succeed apart from the Big 3 QBs in this years draft.

But, like I said there is a very tiny chance this happens anyways, just like I believe this is an even smaller chance that we trade out of the first pick...but both scenarios are still something worth discussing this time of year since we have nothing to go off of at this point but the ramblings of twitter personalities and our own wild imaginations. Overall I think we more than likely taking our QB at 1.1, whoever it might be that we settle on.
 
I guess that's why I have such issue with over paying for someone the Patriots would LOVE to trade away for ANYTHING before they lose him.

I wouldn't have a problem trading our 2nd for Mallet. But I'm not convinced it will cost us that second.

After Schaub's second season the Falcons dangled him for a 1st round pick. They didn't get it. This would be similar to the Patriots dangling Mallet for a 2nd last offseason.

After his third season, Atlanta was still asking for a 1st for Matt Schaub, they still didn't get it. Instead, we negotiated 2 2nds.

The Patriots will probably dangle Mallet for a 2nd round pick soon. If there are no takers they may accept what we offer. We might offer two thirds, we might offer a 5th & Tj Yates. We might offer Yates & Brandon Harris, Keenum Ben Jones & a 6th... who knows?

Brooks Reed & Brennan Williams for Mallet & a 5th.
 
I wouldn't have a problem trading our 2nd for Mallet. But I'm not convinced it will cost us that second.

After Schaub's second season the Falcons dangled him for a 1st round pick. They didn't get it. This would be similar to the Patriots dangling Mallet for a 2nd last offseason.

After his third season, Atlanta was still asking for a 1st for Matt Schaub, they still didn't get it. Instead, we negotiated 2 2nds.

There were reports the Falcons turned down 2 offers of 1st round picks for Schaub after his 2nd year. There was also a report they took two 2nds from Houston over an offer of a 1st after his 3rd year. That's not exactly settling when you consider the "2nd" was the 33rd pick same as this year. Together that was worth a mid 1st.
 
There were reports the Falcons turned down 2 offers of 1st round picks for Schaub after his 2nd year. There was also a report they took two 2nds from Houston over an offer of a 1st after his 3rd year. That's not exactly settling when you consider the "2nd" was the 33rd pick same as this year. Together that was worth a mid 1st.

That's not accurate. The two 2nds were the 39th pick in 2007 (Justin Blalock) and the 48th pick in 2008 (Skins took Fred Davis). The 48th pick was part of a draft day trade between the Falcons & Redskins in 2008.
 
That's not accurate. The two 2nds were the 39th pick in 2007 (Justin Blalock) and the 48th pick in 2008 (Skins took Fred Davis). The 48th pick was part of a draft day trade between the Falcons & Redskins in 2008.

Good catch. The point remains the two value into the 1st round.
 
I wouldn't have a problem trading our 2nd for Mallet. But I'm not convinced it will cost us that second.

After Schaub's second season the Falcons dangled him for a 1st round pick. They didn't get it. This would be similar to the Patriots dangling Mallet for a 2nd last offseason.

After his third season, Atlanta was still asking for a 1st for Matt Schaub, they still didn't get it. Instead, we negotiated 2 2nds.

The Patriots will probably dangle Mallet for a 2nd round pick soon. If there are no takers they may accept what we offer. We might offer two thirds, we might offer a 5th & Tj Yates. We might offer Yates & Brandon Harris, Keenum Ben Jones & a 6th... who knows?

Brooks Reed & Brennan Williams for Mallet & a 5th.
With the first pick in each round, you gotta be aware that our second round pick is virtually a low first rounder and our third round pick is virtually a low second rounder. So with that in mind, I wouldn't give up more than our third-rounder to New England for Mallet, especially since he's in the last year of his contract.
 
With the first pick in each round, you gotta be aware that our second round pick is virtually a low first rounder and our third round pick is virtually a low second rounder. So with that in mind, I wouldn't give up more than our third-rounder to New England for Mallet, especially since he's in the last year of his contract.

As mentioned earlier, if I'm having to decide between Mettenberger at 2-1 or Mallet at 2-1, I'm going with Mallet.
 
As mentioned earlier, if I'm having to decide between Mettenberger at 2-1 or Mallet at 2-1, I'm going with Mallet.

I'd have to agree .... mainly because of the injury concerns.

IDEXAN has a strong point about Mallett's contract situation.

Thing is , Mallett hasn't played much football in the last three years ... he's held a clipboard .... Yeah , he's got a big arm and NFL size. I just wonder if he has the skills to go with them. Not a whole lot to go on other than a few preseason games.

I'm really torn on this QB situation , have been pondering the situation since Schaub fell apart & Keenum went flop. Still don't know what I'd do to remedy the situation. :gun:
 
As mentioned earlier, if I'm having to decide between Mettenberger at 2-1 or Mallet at 2-1, I'm going with Mallet.
I think drafting a Mettenberger or a Grappolo (spelling?) vs a trade for Mallet is an apples and oranges comparison because your rookie draftees can be signed with much more reasonable contract terms than Mallet who's scheduled for FA in 2015.
 
I think drafting a Mettenberger or a Grappolo (spelling?) vs a trade for Mallet is an apples and oranges comparison because your rookie draftees can be signed with much more reasonable contract terms than Mallet who's scheduled for FA in 2015.

Maybe,but look at flynn's contract. Since he has thrown a pass or made a start,you could tie his contract to likely and unlikely to be earned incentives. You can do it to the point that if he throws for 3500 yds and 20 tds,he's paid like the guy you thought u were getting. If he plays like a bum,then he will get paid like one. A high end backup qb gets 3m a yr. An average starter at qb is alex smith money,8m per. If they make the move,his salary wil be anywhere from 3-8m. The days of schaub,flynn,and kolb getting what they got are over.
 
Maybe,but look at flynn's contract. Since he has thrown a pass or made a start,you could tie his contract to likely and unlikely to be earned incentives. You can do it to the point that if he throws for 3500 yds and 20 tds,he's paid like the guy you thought u were getting. If he plays like a bum,then he will get paid like one. A high end backup qb gets 3m a yr. An average starter at qb is alex smith money,8m per. If they make the move,his salary wil be anywhere from 3-8m. The days of schaub,flynn,and kolb getting what they got are over.

While I agree with your main point in this post .... a healthy Schaub is worth that ~$10.5m cap hit. The broken down version we saw this past season .... not so much.

Schaub's past performance was a big part of why this team had such high expectations going into this season .... by damn near everyone.
 
But, most of all, the Texans need a supreme defensive talent to restore this defense to its dominance.
While all the hype surrounding him didn't match his on-field production, Clowney is regarded as the best player available. According to Bleacher Report featured columnist Ryan Riddle, Clowney may be the "rarest prospect" in this draft class.

If not for the overwhelming need of a franchise quarterback for three of the top four picks, Clowney would likely be the undisputed No. 1 overall pick. His talents have invited comparisons to Julius Peppers and other dominant defensive stalwarts and, lined up opposite of J.J. Watt and in front of Brian Cushing, the Texans could boast one of the most potent pass rushes in the game of football.

Despite his lack of sacks in 2013, Clowney has a strong track record as a disruptive force as a defensive end. He is explosive and quick and is an instinctive defender who can stop a play before it develops. Heading into college, Clowney was a 5-star recruit and a consensus No. 1 overall player in the 2011 recruiting class
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...deveon-clowney-should-be-a-lock-for-no-1-pick
******
Taking Clowney may be a no-brainer here, so my concern is that newcomer BOB might be so anxious to prove to the NFL-world which will be watching his every move that he's a bona fide QB guru, he'll just insist on using the #1 on a QB even though there's not one worthy of that top pick in this Draft.
 
With the first pick in each round, you gotta be aware that our second round pick is virtually a low first rounder and our third round pick is virtually a low second rounder. So with that in mind, I wouldn't give up more than our third-rounder to New England for Mallet, especially since he's in the last year of his contract.

Agreed

3-1 would be the best I would offer for Mallett.

Or I might consider trading places in the 2nd rd and giving up a 5th for Mallett.
 
Its much cheaper to find a 6'2" guy who can jam a receiver at the LOS than it is to find dominant players in the defensive front .... that everyone is looking for.

Seattle's success could redefine what teams are looking for from their DB's tho .... which just increases the cost of that type of player.

I don't disagree with what you said, but I can't help but think of the Giants, who had a fairly lengthy run of defensive success by having a DL that could get to the QB without blitzing. I believe that is one of the several paths to a successful defense. The ability to get to the QB with your front four (in our case, three DL and a pass rushing LB).
 
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...deveon-clowney-should-be-a-lock-for-no-1-pick
******
Taking Clowney may be a no-brainer here, so my concern is that newcomer BOB might be so anxious to prove to the NFL-world which will be watching his every move that he's a bona fide QB guru, he'll just insist on using the #1 on a QB even though there's not one worthy of that top pick in this Draft.

If he's hell bent on proving he's a QB guru, it would make more sense to get Keenum (the guy Kubiak failed beat the Jags with; twice) to the pro bowl.
 
I don't disagree with what you said, but I can't help but think of the Giants, who had a fairly lengthy run of defensive success by having a DL that could get to the QB without blitzing. I believe that is one of the several paths to a successful defense. The ability to get to the QB with your front four (in our case, three DL and a pass rushing LB).

Not sure that is how Crennel's defense will function.
 
Not sure that is how Crennel's defense will function.

You're probably right considering Crennel's D is not known for DL who get to the QB, but I think it's still possible to get that kind of pressure from the front four depending on how he uses Watt.
 
I don't disagree with what you said, but I can't help but think of the Giants, who had a fairly lengthy run of defensive success by having a DL that could get to the QB without blitzing. I believe that is one of the several paths to a successful defense. The ability to get to the QB with your front four (in our case, three DL and a pass rushing LB).



I think the difference here is that none of the guy's on Seattle's defense are special talents or athletes where NYG had a couple special pass rushers and eventually those special players cost special money or stop being special , then you have to replace that talent.

With Seattle , they have solid NFL talent tailored to a scheme which is very efficient.

For comparisons sake the draft status of the defensive fronts & corners:

Sherman 5th round KJax 1st
Byron Maxwell 6th round JJo 1st


Red Bryant 4th JJ Watt 1st
Tony McDaniel UDFA Ninja 5th
Brandon Mebane 3rd Earl Mitchell 3rd
Chris Clemons UDFA Brooks Reed 2nd
Cliff Avril 3rd Whitney Mercilus 1st

Neither Sherman nor Maxwell fit the profile of an NFL corner. Its their physicality and their ability to execute the scheme not their athletic ability that makes them successful.
That DL is full of .... JAG's but because of the scheme on the back end they are able to get after the QB.

Basically Seattle thought outside the box while the rest of the league is in a bidding war with guys who fit the mold.
 
he's another mario williams. great physical stats but will take plays and games off. He doesnt have the heart, motor, or discipline.

We have a need for quarterback. Clowney is a luxury.
 
Neither Sherman nor Maxwell fit the profile of an NFL corner. Its their physicality and their ability to execute the scheme not their athletic ability that makes them successful.
That DL is full of .... JAG's but because of the scheme on the back end they are able to get after the QB.
Something needs to be clarified about the Seahawk's corners right now.
Are they big ? Yep. Are they physical ? Yep. Are they fast ? Like gazelles baby, just like gazelles ! Besides football, Sherman was a track guy in college (10.7, 100 meters) and Maxwell is a 4.4 40 guy. That's fast.
So just so we understand here, NFL CBs need to be fast whether or nor they are big and physical.
 
So apparently Matt Cassel wants to void his last year with the Vikings and test the FA waters. Cassel led the Patriots to an 11(?)-win season with OB as his QB coach and was a starter under Crennel in KC; I could see a scenario where he's picked up for his experience in OB's system, if nothing else.

If we grab him, I could definitely see us taking a mid-round QB, freeing up Clowney as the first pick.
 
he's another mario williams. great physical stats but will take plays and games off. He doesnt have the heart, motor, or discipline.

We have a need for quarterback. Clowney is a luxury.

Who's the best player in the draft? Take a look at as many "top 100" lists you can find and you'll see a common theme. Yup

Draft the BPA, not for need.
 
he's another mario williams. great physical stats but will take plays and games off. He doesnt have the heart, motor, or discipline.

We have a need for quarterback. Clowney is a luxury.

I get the Mario comparison because of the issue of taking plays off. However he is way more athletic than Mario was. Clowney is a quick twitch athalete. Mario isn't. And IMO I'm not holding this last year against Clowney. As long as he interviews well I would take him without hesitating.

And yes we need a QB. That does to mean you have to draft one with your first pick. I don't by this "it's a QB driven league" crap. Just because there is an elite group of QB's that take their teams to the playoffs every year, doesn't mean you have to have an elite one to be a good team.

It also doesn't mean you should blindly chase after one with the first pick. If there were a Luck or Manning or Bree's or a sure fire top prospect then sure you draft him. There isn't! All these QB's have big question marks.

Kapernick is not an elite QB. Yet he led the 9ers to the Super Bowl last year and the NFC championship this year. Wilson. Is not an elite QB. He took his team to the Super Bowl and now they are champions. What do these two have on common besides not being elite? Obviously they are both mobile and don't make many mistakes but the reason they both have been so successful is because they are on teams that have strong running games and really really good of not great defenses. They are two of if not the two best teams in the nfl.

So to say Clowney is a luxury and we have to draft a QB with our first pick is silly.
 
I think that Cassel needs to be picked up no matter when we draft.

It can really push and motivate whoever we draft to beat him out or just simply become better, then we would have a serviceable backup afterwords.

I don't know what he's thinking though. He was set to make $3.7 mill this year, I wonder how much more he thinks he can make?
 
I think that Cassel needs to be picked up no matter when we draft.

It can really push and motivate whoever we draft to beat him out or just simply become better, then we would have a serviceable backup afterwords.

I don't know what he's thinking though. He was set to make $3.7 mill this year, I wonder how much more he thinks he can make?

The texans hVe already said they are signing a veteran QB. The reason was so they don't have to throw a rookie into the fire.
 
he's another mario williams. great physical stats but will take plays and games off. He doesnt have the heart, motor, or discipline.

We have a need for quarterback. Clowney is a luxury.


Clowney has an elite explosive first step, Mario did not explode in the first step, and took awhile to get going.
 
Clowney has an elite explosive first step, Mario did not explode in the first step, and took awhile to get going.

Which was my point when I said Clowney is a quick twitch athalete. Mario was very raw too. He had nothing but a bull rush. I literally only remember him using a real football move to get by a blocker once on a TE. Clowney uses his hands very well.
 
I get the Mario comparison because of the issue of taking plays off. However he is way more athletic than Mario was. Clowney is a quick twitch athalete. Mario isn't. And IMO I'm not holding this last year against Clowney. As long as he interviews well I would take him without hesitating.
Good stuff Mussop ! Yes, for a big man Mario was fast but not quick, but fortunately for us Clowney is both.
 
Good stuff Mussop ! Yes, for a big man Mario was fast but not quick, but fortunately for us Clowney is both.

It will only be fortunate for us if we draft him. Our luck Clowney will go to someone in our division. Then he will sack and permanitly injure our new franchise QB that we just drafted Infront of him.
 
I don't disagree with what you said, but I can't help but think of the Giants, who had a fairly lengthy run of defensive success by having a DL that could get to the QB without blitzing. I believe that is one of the several paths to a successful defense. The ability to get to the QB with your front four (in our case, three DL and a pass rushing LB).

That's true,but none were top draft picks either. The highest drafted player was kiwi and he was a very late 1st. JPP was mid 1st,strahan,tuck,and osi were 2nd rd picks. Clowney may have the most athletic talent of all the lineman,but he's not the best pass rusher. Dee Ford and markus smith are much better pass rushers from a technique standpoint. Now coaches will want a guy with rare talent to coach up,but there are also things u can't coach like bendability.

I think the whole argument for and against the qbs vs clowney is value and availibilty. There isn't a poster on this board who doesn't think the texans front 7 needs to get better,especially the pass rush. In the same sense,the qb situation is parallel to this thought also. The pro defense crowd wil say,look at seattle. Seattle actually is the litmus to both arguments. They built the team and struck gold on the 3rd rd qb.In the same tone,they don't have 1 top 15 drafted player in the front 7. All of the pass rushers were either cheap,free agent pickups or mid to late draft picks. So the choice each poster prefers depends on their view of the best value. Me personally,I get the qb 1st and get my front 7 people in rest of the draft. I think this because I think there is a bigger seperation is the qb prospects vs the dl prospects
 
So apparently Matt Cassel wants to void his last year with the Vikings and test the FA waters. Cassel led the Patriots to an 11(?)-win season with OB as his QB coach and was a starter under Crennel in KC; I could see a scenario where he's picked up for his experience in OB's system, if nothing else.
.

OB was the WR coach when Cassel started for New England. McDaniels was the QB coach/OC


& Cassel probably got Crennel fired.
 
It also doesn't mean you should blindly chase after one with the first pick. If there were a Luck or Manning or Bree's or a sure fire top prospect then sure you draft him. There isn't! All these QB's have big question marks.

Kapernick is not an elite QB. Yet he led the 9ers to the Super Bowl last year and the NFC championship this year. Wilson. Is not an elite QB. He took his team to the Super Bowl and now they are champions. What do these two have on common besides not being elite? Obviously they are both mobile and don't make many mistakes but the reason they both have been so successful is because they are on teams that have strong running games and really really good of not great defenses. They are two of if not the two best teams in the nfl.

A little off-topic... what did you think about taking Cam Newton with the #1 overall.
 
Clowney has an elite explosive first step, Mario did not explode in the first step, and took awhile to get going.

Mario's not a "pass rusher" he's a big football player (& when I say a guy is a football player, that's the highest compliment I can give him). He looks like a pass rusher & the league's going to want him to be a pass rusher, but he's the total package, a football player.
 
Which was my point when I said Clowney is a quick twitch athalete. Mario was very raw too. He had nothing but a bull rush. I literally only remember him using a real football move to get by a blocker once on a TE. Clowney uses his hands very well.

Yeah, this is a really underrated part of Clowney's game. The most impressive thing about the Hit to wasn't him dodging the lineman and blowing up the running back, but the presence of mind to see the fumble and palm it with his hand and then get up and start returning it. That's insane.
 
I get the Mario comparison because of the issue of taking plays off. However he is way more athletic than Mario was. Clowney is a quick twitch athalete. Mario isn't. And IMO I'm not holding this last year against Clowney. As long as he interviews well I would take him without hesitating.

And yes we need a QB. That does to mean you have to draft one with your first pick. I don't by this "it's a QB driven league" crap. Just because there is an elite group of QB's that take their teams to the playoffs every year, doesn't mean you have to have an elite one to be a good team.

It also doesn't mean you should blindly chase after one with the first pick. If there were a Luck or Manning or Bree's or a sure fire top prospect then sure you draft him. There isn't! All these QB's have big question marks.

Kapernick is not an elite QB. Yet he led the 9ers to the Super Bowl last year and the NFC championship this year. Wilson. Is not an elite QB. He took his team to the Super Bowl and now they are champions. What do these two have on common besides not being elite? Obviously they are both mobile and don't make many mistakes but the reason they both have been so successful is because they are on teams that have strong running games and really really good of not great defenses. They are two of if not the two best teams in the nfl.

So to say Clowney is a luxury and we have to draft a QB with our first pick is silly.

Great Post
 
That's true,but none were top draft picks either. The highest drafted player was kiwi and he was a very late 1st. JPP was mid 1st,strahan,tuck,and osi were 2nd rd picks. Clowney may have the most athletic talent of all the lineman,but he's not the best pass rusher. Dee Ford and markus smith are much better pass rushers from a technique standpoint. Now coaches will want a guy with rare talent to coach up,but there are also things u can't coach like bendability.

I think the whole argument for and against the qbs vs clowney is value and availibilty. There isn't a poster on this board who doesn't think the texans front 7 needs to get better,especially the pass rush. In the same sense,the qb situation is parallel to this thought also. The pro defense crowd wil say,look at seattle. Seattle actually is the litmus to both arguments. They built the team and struck gold on the 3rd rd qb.In the same tone,they don't have 1 top 15 drafted player in the front 7. All of the pass rushers were either cheap,free agent pickups or mid to late draft picks. So the choice each poster prefers depends on their view of the best value. Me personally,I get the qb 1st and get my front 7 people in rest of the draft. I think this because I think there is a bigger seperation is the qb prospects vs the dl prospects

Great post also,

Even though I disagree with the QB/DL separation thingy. I don't see much difference between TB and McCarron talent wise. DL there's no DE close to Clowney in this draft. IMHO

As for how Romeo would use Clowney? Think a more talented McGinest.
 
A little off-topic... what did you think about taking Cam Newton with the #1 overall.

It doesn't matter what I think. if they felt he was worthy of the pick then it's a no brainer. They didn't use their first overall draft pick on him because they needed a QB. They obviously believed in him. If they didn't they would not have drafted him.
 
As for how Romeo would use Clowney? Think a more talented McGinest.

All-Universe NFL Scout Brett Kollmann had an interesting point on Clowney, thinking he could play a 5-tech DE in the 3-4:

http://www.battleredblog.com/2014/1...ville-quarterback-teddy-bridgewater#212780537

After thinking on it more I think he would make an excellent 5-tech in a 3-4 rather than an OLB

He’s not really “bendy” like a Robert Quinn or a Dwight Freeney, and he’s more of a straight line power rusher. I think in a 4-3 he’s a natural fit at left end where he’s contending with more power-oriented right tackles since he can hold the edge like no other end in this class. Speed rushes are not his strong suit, and generally when he gets by people it’s from a bull rush, inside counters, or getting an arm over and then sinking into the edge rather than ripping up out of his stance. It’s reliant on straight line suddenness and hand usage rather than being able to turn himself into a protractor like a lot of “speed ends”. As a 5-tech in a 3-4 he can use his incredible power to two-gap on tackles and force everything back into Cushing, and on passing downs he has such phenomenal initial burst that can split a tackle and a guard on slide protections before they can react. Offensive lines will have to pick him up with a tackle, which then frees up the “bendy” OLB’s like Mercilus and Trevardo Williams to get one on ones with running backs.

You’ve also got Watt at the other 5-tech position that can’t be single blocked, so now you’ve got a one on one up the gut with a nose tackle and a center (and nobody blocking Brian Cushing/Brooks Reed assuming he kicks inside). In nickel you would easily make a case for Clowney at the 7-tech, Watt at the 3-tech, whoever our nose tackle is, and Mercilus on the line with Williams coming out, or even Watt and Clowney both at 3-tech and Williams and Mercilus outside of them. The possibilities are endless.

http://www.battleredblog.com/2014/2/5/5383836/2014-nfl-draft-what-to-learn-from-seattle

Think about the ripple effect a talent like Clowney would create in a Romeo Crennel 3-4. If Watt plays his usual 5-technique position on the left side, Clowney plays as a 5-tech on the right, and a heftier nose tackle is drafted in the middle rounds (let’s say Beau Allen, for argument’s sake) to play over the center, you have a sudden nightmare for an offensive line. If Brooks Reed is kicked inside to stuff the run with Brian Cushing, then suddenly Trevardo Williams is elevated to the left outside linebacker position next to Watt, Whitney Mercilus stays next to Clowney at right outside linebacker, and the nightmare only gets worse.

Does the right guard slide to stop Watt inside, leaving the athletically gifted Williams one-on-one with a tight end on the edge? Does the left tackle slide to take on Mercilus while the guard has to find a way to cut off Clowney all the way in the 5-tech? If the tackle takes on Clowney, does any offense feel comfortable leaving a running back one-on-one with Mercilus all game long? If the center needs help with Allen, who is a good penetrator in his own right, who is left to help him? There is no offense in the world that can afford to allocate four blockers to two defensive ends for an entire game. The outside linebackers wreaking havoc unopposed on the edge will force Watt and Clowney into one-on-ones sooner or later, and when they do get individual matchups, both of them are gifted enough to shred protection in the blink of an eye. There is no place to hide. There is no way to change the math in the offense’s favor. If you can’t block it, you can’t beat it. Period.

TL;DR - Clowney replaces Antonio Smith in the 3-4 and between him, a big NT like Beau Allen/Justin Ellis/Louis Nix, and Watt, you CAN'T block all of them (at least without risking 1v1 matchups on Clowney/Watt) and it means leaving just a TE/RB on Mercilus and Trevardo Williams.
 
Watt * Nix * Clowney

With Merci on one side and Williams on the other side, with Cush and Reed as ILBs. I think that could be a scary front and help replicate the success the Panthers had in reforming their front 7 to cover up a weakened secondary (though I think we have a stronger one than Carolina to begin with).
 
Yep

I'll take this please.


Y'all can miss me on on nix. As I've said before,if people want to criticize the mccullers,then go watch nix vs alabama in title game. If you watch tennessee v bama that same yr, the same guard center couldn't move mccullers off the los. When jones and womack played nix,he was on roller skates. Not to mention he already has bad knees. I'llpass.
 
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