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Clowney, then what?

Mr teX said:
I don't think he'd have to, nor would he want to after how fans treated him this past year.

Too many teams that he could go & become a quality back up &/or stop gap starter for while they develop some 2nd-3rd draft pick imo......
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I don't think there is a team out there that Matt can walk on as a starter. I also do not believe there is a team out there he can go to & have the possibility of earning a $12.5M salary plus a $1M roster bonus. He's got that with Houston.

If he feels like he's still got it, I can see him taking a pay cut in 2014, & if he's part of the Texans "bounce back" there's a chance he'll remain a Texan in 2015 & collect the money he's worked "so hard" for.


I'm just throwing it out there as a compelling reason why he would take a pay cut in 2014.
 
I don't care what they do with Schaub as long as we win and continue to win in the future.

I don't see how we can afford to keep him at his current salary and current performance level.
 
The Pencil Neck said:
I don't care what they do with Schaub as long as we win and continue to win in the future.

I don't see how we can afford to keep him at his current salary and current performance level.
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You know.. thinking about it, I don't see how OB is going to see what he needs to see even in camp. I'm sure Schaub looked just fine in practice.
 
thunderkyss said:
You know.. thinking about it, I don't see how OB is going to see what he needs to see even in camp. I'm sure Schaub looked just fine in practice.
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OB has said that being a successful QB is about making the correct decision quickly. And that's exactly what he won't see Schaub doing under duress the last couple of seasons. And like you said, that's not something you probably don't see until the real bullets start to fly.

Now, with that said, OB might think he can steady Schaub up by providing him more protection or something but I doubt it.
 
The Pencil Neck said:
OB has said that being a successful QB is about making the correct decision quickly. And that's exactly what he won't see Schaub doing under duress the last couple of seasons. And like you said, that's not something you probably don't see until the real bullets start to fly.

Now, with that said, OB might think he can steady Schaub up by providing him more protection or something but I doubt it.
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I'm afraid we witnessed first hand the changing of NFL into a more athletic basketball orientated version, catching our beloved Texans flat footed, so to speak. Unless your smarter (which Matt & Gary were not) to use their own physical limitations to exploit defenses, they will feast on you & they did, pick 6 after pick 6 after pick 6!
 
HOU-TEX said:
Imo, if we stay at #1, we should draft the best football player in the draft. To me, that is Clowney.
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How are you defining best football player? Best athlete, best production, best mind for the game, old fashioned football grit and nous?

Not sure Clowney fits any of those categories.
 
kiwitexansfan said:
How are you defining best football player? Best athlete, best production, best mind for the game, old fashioned football grit and nous?

Not sure Clowney fits any of those categories.
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To me, he's the best football player/athlete in the draft. It's not really close, imo. It all depends on what he elects to do once he sees the cash. But, I think he has the least amount of bust factor of the group.
 
steelbtexan said:
Best DE I've seen since Bruce Smith.
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Breaking down Clowney

by Greg Gabriel

Most of you who read this don't need me to tell you that Clowney is great. How great is he? Well, I've been doing this since 1981, and he is as good a defensive player as I have ever watched.

In the 1984 season, Bruce Smith, who became the No. 1 pick in the 1985 NFL Draft, was dominant but not nearly as dominant as Clowney. Smith would take some plays off and played 15-20 pounds heavy that season. I don't think I have seen Clowney take a play off. I did not get a chance to scout Lawrence Taylor, but I worked for the Giants for most of his career and I would have to say that if Clowney reminds me of anyone it's Taylor.
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Yes, it is from Aug 2013, but still high praise. If this guy didn't make immature mistakes from time to time I would say he was a slam dunk @ #1. The effort flags and speeding tickets are the only thing keeping me from plugging him in @ 1.1. I would play him at OLB and call it a day. The combine should help answer any OLB questions we may have. Willie McGinest anyone?
 
Blake said:
Yes, it is from Aug 2013, but still high praise.
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That's a gigantic but.

Willie McGinest anyone?
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When did McGinest become a football god around here? In 15 years he went to the probowl twice and has no shot at the Hall. I'd be aiming a little higher for an example. Charles Haley seems a much more apt comparison both for athleticism and maturity issues (which may keep him out of the Hall).
 
infantrycak said:
That's a gigantic but.
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Yes, as we all know NFL teams only watch the last year you were in college so all that prior production was accomplished with the knowledge that it wouldn't count for anything. :kitten:

infantrycak said:
When did McGinest become a football god around here? In 15 years he went to the probowl twice and has no shot at the Hall. I'd be aiming a little higher for an example. Charles Haley seems a much more apt comparison both for athleticism and maturity issues (which may keep him out of the Hall).
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McGinest was used as an OLB in New England's 3-4 when they won three Superbowls and has the postseason record for sacks with 16; Clowney might be used in a similar role so he comes up a bit.
 
bhsman said:
Yes, as we all know NFL teams only watch the last year you were in college so all that prior production was accomplished with the knowledge that it wouldn't count for anything. :kitten:
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Nice job whiffing on the point which is not that he would ignore prior seasons but that he would include the last one.

McGinest was used as an OLB in New England's 3-4 when they won three Superbowls and has the postseason record for sacks with 16; Clowney might be used in a similar role so he comes up a bit.
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McGinest was a DE in New England's 4-3 for the 1st two SBs. He had zero postseason sacks for the 3rd SB when he was an OLB in a 3-4.

I'll stick with Haley as a better example for hope on Clowney. 5 SB rings, 2 as OLB in a 3-4 and 3 as DE in a 4-3.
 
McGinnest was also really just a cog in the machinery of that defense. No 1 guy stood out. Is that the type of guy you really want to select with the #1 pick?
 
infantrycak said:
Nice job whiffing on the point which is not that he would ignore prior seasons but that he would include the last one.
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I'm not ignoring Clowney's last season (though quite a few people seem to only start and stop their analysis at sack numbers and not things like pressure), but Clowney's first two need to be included in any discussion of his ability - and what he showed then is why that article got written.

McGinest was a DE in New England's 4-3 for the 1st two SBs. He had zero postseason sacks for the 3rd SB when he was an OLB in a 3-4.
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The wording makes it sound like you're leaving out his sack numbers from other years intentionally, so would I be wrong to assume that you mean he didn't have any sacks when New England ran the 3-4 by their third Superbowl? Just clarifying.
 
Mr teX said:
McGinnest was also really just a cog in the machinery of that defense. No 1 guy stood out. Is that the type of guy you really want to select with the #1 pick?
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If he can help get key stops late in the 4th qtr and help win games then the answer would be YES.
 
bhsman said:
I'm not ignoring Clowney's last season ...
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I didn't accuse you of having done so. My comments were always about the article. Everyone and their dog knows last season was not Clowney's best. Observing the author's article might be different if it included the last season seemed obvious to me.

The wording makes it sound like you're leaving out his sack numbers from other years intentionally, so would I be wrong to assume that you mean he didn't have any sacks when New England ran the 3-4 by their third Superbowl? Just clarifying.
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The wording was very precise. In the postseason for the 3rd SB (the one when they were running a 3-4 and he was an OLB) he had zero sacks. No reflection on the remainder of his career.

As Mr. Tex said, given the hooplah over Clowney and his supposed freakish generational talent I would be pretty damn disappointed to end up with McGinest. That also was not a knock on Clowney as I supplied a higher target for aspirations in Charles Haley (who was by the way a 4th round pick).
 
steelbtexan said:
If he can help get key stops late in the 4th qtr and help win games then the answer would be YES.
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:mariopalm: You're a self purported "high standards" guy when it comes to everything else.....Why would you settle for a Willie McGinest clone at 1:1? Not saying Clowney is destined to be that.....
 
Alright forget McGinest. I just wonder if Romeo can find a spot for him to be productive in whatever defensive alignments he chooses.
 
Blake said:
Alright forget McGinest. I just wonder if Romeo can find a spot for him to be productive in whatever defensive alignments he chooses.
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If you can't find a way fit in a talent like Clowney where he could be productive you ain't much of a coach.
 
mussop said:
If you can't find a way fit in a talent like Clowney where he could be productive you ain't much of a coach.
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You don't just make your defense accommodate a great talent like Clowney (and JJ), you configure/design it to maximize his abilities. I would think any NFL DC worth his salt would relish that kind of opportunity & challenge.
 
IDEXAN said:
You don't just make your defense accommodate a great talent like Clowney (and JJ), you configure/design it to maximize his abilities. I would think any NFL DC worth his salt would relish that kind of opportunity & challenge.
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I think this is a problem with today's NFL...too much specialization & catering towards what a player's particular skill set is.

LT deservedly got all the hype on those giants defenses, but he likely would've been a force however Parcells chose to use him b/c he could do it all; Carl Banks and Harry Carson weren't exactly chopped liver either.

I say that to say playmakers stand out all on their own & great defenses usually don't cater to 1 or 2 guys' particular skill set. If Clowney truly has as much potential & talent as we all think he has, they'll be no need to construct anything around him, he'll be a force in whatever RC decides to run.
 
"Who? When I first heard that he was the best that people had seen in 20 years or whenever, I was skeptical because I never fall into the trap of comparing people over that many years. But obviously, he is an incredible talent with wild upside. He’s going to be a very big contributor on a football team from Day 1. We all know that. The league knows that. He has the potential to be one of the marquee-type pass rushers."
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http://espn.go.com/blog/atlanta-falcons/post/_/id/3594/dimitroff-high-on-clowney-top-prospects
***
I dunno, but is there another player, just one in this Draft that people are talking about in such glowing & extravagant terms ?
 
bhsman said:
Go watch the cutups of his Tennessee game from this year, then. He uses it a lot and it's a beauty to see; very Watt-esque. World-famous NFL Scout Brett Kollmann(tm) went over it in his tape breakdown of Clowney, where early in the game they leave Richardson on Clowney to block 1v1.
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lol, love what you did there.

deucetx said:
But thinking we can just cut starting corners and replace them with the likes of a Brandon Harris or some other mid-late round guy because we can rush the QB seems a bit much.
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Brandon Harris was a 2nd round pick... he's basically asking to replace with WORSE than Brandon Harris.

IDEXAN said:
If you take a Clowney (or a Jake Matthews or Greg Robinson) with your first overall and he's a disappointment or worse a bust, it won't really set you back that far. Just look at the season KC had last year even though their first overall (an OT) looks to be a mistake.
But draft a QB #1 and you gotta play him, and your whole organization will be set back if he's a fails as your starting QB. It's a position where prudence might be the operative word when it comes to your choice, not boldness.
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That wasn't at all the same team plus a #1 overall poor tackle. KC Succeeded because they DID change the QB and they DID change the coaches. We are 50% of the way there...
 
TexansFTW said:
lol, love what you did there.



Brandon Harris was a 2nd round pick... he's basically asking to replace with WORSE than Brandon Harris.



That wasn't at all the same team plus a #1 overall poor tackle. KC Succeeded because they DID change the QB and they DID change the coaches. We are 50% of the way there...
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Tell us why you love what he did.

Just because Harris was a 2nd rd pick doesn't mean he was any good. Many DB's drafted later are better than Harris (Sherman/Browner/Chancellor/Carter) are examples of this. This makes me sad. Just because this regime isn't good at picking DB's (Looking at you Rick) Doesn't mean other orgs cant be good at drafting DB's.

Agreed about being 50% of the way there. We just differ about whether TB is the 50% to get the Texans where we both want them to be.
 
steelbtexan said:
Tell us why you love what he did.

Just because Harris was a 2nd rd pick doesn't mean he was any good. Many DB's drafted later are better than Harris (Sherman/Browner/Chancellor/Carter) are examples of this. This makes me sad. Just because this regime isn't good at picking DB's (Looking at you Rick) Doesn't mean other orgs cant be good at drafting DB's.

Agreed about being 50% of the way there. We just differ about whether TB is the 50% to get the Texans where we both want them to be.
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1. It was a shot at someone he's been going back and forth with

2. 95% of late round DBs suck. As a Texan fan I haven't seen gold in late rounds EVER, I don't expect it now. Tony Carter? Dude sucks. He lost his job, but only recently regained it because Chris Harris tore his ACL.

What is the common theme of the other 3? All Seahawks. It's weird everyone on that defense is a pro bowler. To me I see great defensive coaching there, and I see players that make other players look better than they really are. I bet if you move everyone on that team to another team about 85% fade and about 15% distinguish themselves as the All-Pros they are. Chancellor is a safety too, I thought we were speaking more specifically to CBs.

3. Yeah we do, and that's cool, probably not gonna change for either of us at this point. These lines are drawn too deep in the sand now.

IDEXAN said:
I'm not worried about the first year, most starting rookie QBs aren't expected to have the kind of season that Luck did, that first year is usually a mulligan for them. My concern is the second and third year if he's a mistake. Look how long the Jags have been forced to screw around with Gabbert who was the 10th overall in his Draft. Just think how long you have to tolerate an unproductive QB if he's the first overall pick in his Draft ?
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I think it had more to do with no QBs being available to them that they saw as suitable replacements where they were drafting last year and didn’t believe Blackmon was gonna be such a life decision loser the year before and would actually make the QB better.
 
Jadeveon Clowney 2014 NFL Draft scouting report
Nitpick all you want, but Jadeveon Clowney is the best prospect in the 2014 NFL Draft...
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CLOWNEYSACK.gif
 
infantrycak said:
If I was grading that I would assign the sack to the QB. Clowney was well handled by a single guy.

Please tell me nobody is going to claim a RB in waiting is beating a double team.
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That's .... Tajh Boyd running right into the pressure , RB didn't have a chance to help because of it. So one of Clowney's three sacks on the year was a gift by the QB. Here . let me help you tackle me! .... Shades of Bret Favre and Michael Strahan.
 
HOU-TEX said:
True, but his point remains true. At least imo
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I wasn't disputing the conclusion of the author, just whether that clip exemplified it.

Corrosion said:
That's .... Tajh Boyd running right into the pressure , RB didn't have a chance to help because of it. So one of Clowney's three sacks on the year was a gift by the QB. Here . let me help you tackle me! .... Shades of Bret Favre and Michael Strahan.
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Yeah, in defense of the RB, if anything it looks like he was anticipating what the QB should have done which is step forward. Then the RB would be in position if Clowney reversed course.
 
infantrycak said:
If I was grading that I would assign the sack to the QB. Clowney was well handled by a single guy.

Please tell me nobody is going to claim a RB in waiting is beating a double team.
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Like so many highlight plays, they speak very little to actual production or skill.
 
Corrosion said:
That's .... Tajh Boyd running right into the pressure , RB didn't have a chance to help because of it. So one of Clowney's three sacks on the year was a gift by the QB. Here . let me help you tackle me! .... Shades of Bret Favre and Michael Strahan.
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You guys are getting rediculous. The last sentence shows you've developed a negative emotional attachment to Clowney. No doubt from all the bickering that's been going on here. You're one of the best posters On this board. You're better than this. Don't let all the BS going on here kill your objectivity.

Clowney is talented and if he aces the interview process he's well worthy of the number one pick. As is Bridgwater, Manziel and Bortles. To deny this is just setting yourself up for a huge letdown. It's a pretty sure bet it's going to be one of those guys.

Whichever one it is people are going to have to learn to accept it.
 
infantrycak said:
If I was grading that I would assign the sack to the QB. Clowney was well handled by a single guy.

Please tell me nobody is going to claim a RB in waiting is beating a double team.
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I am not going to say great play, but he is the only one who was getting any type of pressure there. And while the RB didnt help block, his position was a reason for Clowney to continue on the edge and see if he can get around. Going back inside would have meant getting past the RB too. The QB running into him was just dumb luck.

And the notion that he was well handled is a bit absurd. The LT gets caught on his heels and Clowney blows past him right as the QB tries to escape the pocket.
 
It's not Clowney hate, it is GIF hate. All the GIFs used to make points in that report where marginally illustrative at best.

Clowney is a remarkable athlete, if he shows he has heart and desire (for something other than a pay cheque) I can understand him being 1:1.
 
mussop said:
Clowney is talented and if he aces the interview process he's well worthy of the number one pick. As is Bridgwater, Manziel and Bortles. To deny this is just setting yourself up for a huge letdown. It's a pretty sure bet it's going to be one of those guys.

Whichever one it is people are going to have to learn to accept it.
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I wouldn't take him that high because of injury concern.

Whether that is considered worthy but injury concern or just not worthy doesn't matter to me.

The injury concern is serious enough for me that the Texans getting him would take trading back for two 1sts and then taking him with the 2nd. Not likely, but then again almost nobody saw Aaron Rodgers sliding that far or DaRick Rodgers going undrafted.

Blake said:
And the notion that he was well handled is a bit absurd. The LT gets caught on his heels and Clowney blows past him right as the QB tries to escape the pocket.
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Well we will just agree to disagree on that one. OTs ride pass rushers wide all the time in the NFL (and college). It is a very common technique for dealing with speed rushes.

Blows past? Right as? - now that is absurd. The LT has him engaged back to 6 yards behind the LOS. Clowney has no play if the QB steps up.
 
On that one GIF what stood out to me is how Clowney was immediately in the backfield. His speed and natural ability are amazing and I have no doubt he will set or shatter records at the combine. By the way from the games that I saw of SC IMO I never saw any shades of Merry O Williams in his play style with this whole "taking plays off" deal. There were times Merry O would only look elite vs back up OL and TEs. Clowney was constantly double teamed and the kid still saw the backfield. May not have gotten the sacks but he still had an impact. Look at Watts sack numbers after the league saw his play from his own monster season. But still........................ I want Bridgewater.
 
TexansFTW said:
That wasn't at all the same team plus a #1 overall poor tackle. KC Succeeded because they DID change the QB and they DID change the coaches. We are 50% of the way there...
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Just changing the HC and QB gives you no guarantees of victory. In KCs case they were able to hire a proven NFL winning HC and sign a QB in FA who was a proven winner, even had winning games in the play-offs when at San Fran. Just making a coaching change & qB change for the sake of change guarantees absolutely nothing.
 
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